Almost Any Ability Ubers

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Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
yes because judging a meta you haven't played and haven't seen at a top level a couple of days after it just got a very important update by using theorymon damage calcs with very bias situations, is totally reasonable.

I understand you just want the best for the meta, but so do I, and I can see that this is just a bit of a reactive panic.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
The point being I don't really think that this "panic reaction" is all that bad of a thing considering it makes a certain playstyle (HO) nearly unviable (since there would be so few possible teams and they would be so predictable), and it centralizes all special attackers and makes those physical ones that can't hit extremely hard nearly unviable as well (provided they don't carry taunt or aren't beaten by chansey or w/e.
 
As someone who enjoys HO quite a bit I can tell you that chansey is not actually a threat to my viability. What does chansey actually do back to poison heal ekiller? Do tell how your Fur Coat chanslord fights back and stops ekiller just getting to +6? seismic toss aint killin it, no statuses to be had, chansey doesn't get phasing last I checked...
 
As someone who enjoys HO quite a bit I can tell you that chansey is not actually a threat to my viability. What does chansey actually do back to poison heal ekiller? Do tell how your Fur Coat chanslord fights back and stops ekiller just getting to +6? seismic toss aint killin it, no statuses to be had, chansey doesn't get phasing last I checked...
obviously there are other pokemon to use with MUCH better physical bulk than chansey such as hippo or gira.

+6 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 201-237 (39.9 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 100+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 226-266 (44.9 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

While Hippo avoids being reliably 2HKOd by +6 espeed and both of which have phazing and reliable recovery.

Even then chansey can run surprise mummy and hit with seismic toss
 

Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
obviously there are other pokemon to use with MUCH better physical bulk than chansey such as hippo or gira.

+6 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 201-237 (39.9 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 100+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 226-266 (44.9 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

While Hippo avoids being reliably 2HKOd by +6 espeed and both of which have phazing and reliable recovery.

Even then chansey can run surprise mummy and hit with seismic toss
Mum Chansey is a good lure regardless.

And again, gira is a gamble since not using PH on it means it lacks recovery, which is what makes it sorta good in AAA 'bers.

Also I notice how the only perception of HO is physical spam with ray and arceus. Come on people, tha is not all HO has in such a variant ruleset like AAA, also just because HO isn't the most viable playstyle doesn't mean it's a bad meta. Which imo, I still think HO is the best playstyle.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
I understand the ruleset that is put on HO in all metagames, and how there are restrictions that reduce the viability of many would-be threats. The main problem I have is that there are so few viable all-out attackers in this metagame because of the presence of fur coat (chansey is one example of a really, really centralizing fur coat user) alone. Unless you are +2 poison heal facade ekiller, you can't 2hko, and without strong fighting stabs you really can't 2hko on it either. This means that if you don't have strong fighting stab, taunt, reliable recovery, or a super ridiculous high powered attack, you just can't break it. It makes HO very hard to play since you have to dedicate so many slots to beating up on stall teams with fur coat, not giving you enough room to still have a decent matchup against most offense. There are ways to beat it, sure, but they restrict teambuilding to an extent I believe is unhealthy.

No, HO is not the best playstyle in this meta, bulky offense and well made stall dominate this meta.
 

Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
I understand the ruleset that is put on HO in all metagames, and how there are restrictions that reduce the viability of many would-be threats. The main problem I have is that there are so few viable all-out attackers in this metagame because of the presence of fur coat (chansey is one example of a really, really centralizing fur coat user) alone. Unless you are +2 poison heal facade ekiller, you can't 2hko, and without strong fighting stabs you really can't 2hko on it either. This means that if you don't have strong fighting stab, taunt, reliable recovery, or a super ridiculous high powered attack, you just can't break it. It makes HO very hard to play since you have to dedicate so many slots to beating up on stall teams with fur coat, not giving you enough room to still have a decent matchup against most offense. There are ways to beat it, sure, but they restrict teambuilding to an extent I believe is unhealthy.

No, HO is not the best playstyle in this meta, bulky offense and well made stall dominate this meta.
yes because, lets totally quickban something controversial to please a couple of people (or heck, at this point, 2) with no actual battle resaults or experience, but instead based on pure theorymon and sudden bias damage calcs that in actuality prove little to nothing.

And yes, in a tier with sd aerilate rayquaza, PH ekiller, mixed protean deo-a, spout ogre, offensive CM PH xerneas (sets up all over most stall), offensive groudon, CM Diancie, smeargle and many other mons that I am too lazy to list or have not gotten the chance to try yet

HO is totally not the best playstyle.

You did the same stuff with overreacting in normal AAA with suicune and it turned out to be no big deal, and as the meta progressed, the meta is no where near as stall rampant, come on- let the meta evolve.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
Im not talking about banning chansey, giratina, or PH here because they are not nearly uncompetitive, and this is an ubers tier.

Now that I think of it, I guess we should just keep fur coat since its not inherently uncompetitive (like mega ray or evasion), and this is an ubers tier with as little bans as possible. Non-uber I would definitely continue this but meh...nah.

PH/fur coat giratina / lugia (new great wall), or regen giratina which is probably better, Fur Coat dialga (w/o def investment) easily beats ray, although it doesn't like switching in repetitively, PH palkia beats even specs modest TINTED LENS ogre, Fur coat groudon-P which takes about 50% from +4 ray...

We can argue about the most viable playstyle on paper all we want, but you even said that using pure theorymon is pointless.
 

Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
you can't have fur coat groudon-p btw, since "mega/primal" abilities override regular ones

also
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Dialga: 295-348 (86.5 - 102%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

lol
 
I'm gonna go ahead and suggest ray is probably more viable(possibly even uncompetitively so) than cray.

252+ Atk Sharp Beak Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 213-252 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

It's weakest espeed is only survivable by the bulkiest two HO mons(pridon) when only factoring in HO mons that don't run fur coat(which probably won't be that common on HO)/resist flying which can be dealt with by using earthquake and thunderbolt/ice beam since minus manectric, aerodactyl, raikou, thundurus, zapdos, and jirachi he outspeeds all those with any semblance of being viable and SE priorities aren't given to any resists

+1 252+ Atk Sharp Beak Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 319-376 (71.8 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Arceus loses if ray can find any time to set up

252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 265-313 (59.6 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

also loses to band

252+ Atk Sharp Beak Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Groudon: 165-195 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

pridon deals with espeed more reliably but

+1 252+ Atk Sharp Beak Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Groudon: 247-292 (61.1 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

pridon also loses if ray can setup

252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Groudon: 205-243 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and to band

-2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 160-190 (56.9 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 296-352 (84.3 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO


intimidate manectric is really the only HO mon that can deal with ray(if ray hasn't set up yet otherwise manectric loses) and even then a stray crit easily kill manectric so ray has no fully reliable stops on HO

Edit: just remembered I was going to calc earthquake against pridon

252+ Atk Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Groudon: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
you can't have fur coat groudon-p btw, since "mega/primal" abilities override regular ones

also
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Dialga: 295-348 (86.5 - 102%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

lol
Fur coat dialga would invest in HP and maybe defense, and normal ray in ubers wasn't running EQ before oras anyways. Running EQ makes sense here, however.

Was not aware that the primal abilities do override regular ones. In that case, ogre is even less threatening (I calced tinted lens modest specsogre with 180 Satk vs Sdef palkia and it can't even 2hko, and may not 3hko).
 

Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
Fur coat dialga would invest in HP and maybe defense, and normal ray in ubers wasn't running EQ before oras anyways. Running EQ makes sense here, however.

Was not aware that the primal abilities do override regular ones. In that case, ogre is even less threatening (I calced tinted lens modest specsogre with 180 Satk vs Sdef palkia and it can't even 2hko, and may not 3hko).
primal ogre just sucks in this tier in general imo. And I just calced with no defenses since that's what you implied, no hard feelings
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
And I just calced with no defenses since that's what you implied, no hard feelings
We've done this too much to have hard feelings about it :)

Regular Ogre would be the threat, and since the primals lose abilities there is no point anyways i.e. i was referring to regular ogre being a potential threat.
 
Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
Adaptability
Serious Nature
252 Atk, 252 SpA, 4 HP
-Shadow Ball/Hex
-Shadow Sneak/Shadow Force
-Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
-Dragon Claw/Outrage/Will-o-Wisp

This thing is probably one of the best mixed attackers in the tier with 2.4x boosted stabs and dual 120 Attack Stats not to mention 150/100/100 bulk

252 Atk Griseous Orb Adaptability Giratina-O Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 394-464 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Griseous Orb Adaptability Giratina-O Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 350-414 (86.6 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Griseous Orb Adaptability Giratina-O Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Chansey: 197-232 (30.6 - 36.1%) -- 51.8% chance to 3HKO
 
Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
Adaptability
Serious Nature
252 Atk, 252 SpA, 4 HP
-Shadow Ball/Hex
-Shadow Sneak/Shadow Force
-Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
-Dragon Claw/Outrage/Will-o-Wisp

This thing is probably one of the best mixed attackers in the tier with 2.4x boosted stabs and dual 120 Attack Stats not to mention 150/100/100 bulk

252 Atk Griseous Orb Adaptability Giratina-O Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 394-464 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Griseous Orb Adaptability Giratina-O Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 350-414 (86.6 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Griseous Orb Adaptability Giratina-O Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Chansey: 197-232 (30.6 - 36.1%) -- 51.8% chance to 3HKO
Why so Serious?
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
yall tealise that thanks to the nature of Mega evo it can both Aerialte AND mega?

Rayquayza @ Sharp Beak / Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Ability: Aerialate
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Ascent
- Earthquake

Early game it revenge kills as ate Rayquay, the n megas late game and smashes shit with SHARP BEAK or lo DA. So THATS why its banned.
 
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