Alolan Marowak Discussion

[steviestar]

Here is the thing. It just means there will be more hard switching if they see A-Marowak in the team builder. There are so many powerful water, ground, and dark pokemon in OU that it will be hard pressed to do much of anything effectively without having massive pressure put on it. It is so slow that it literally doesn't matter how strong it is.

Prediction goes both ways. If your opponent is unwilling to fully utilize their Tapu Koko or whatever out of fear of a free A-Marowak switch in, then A-Marowak is doing its job. And if you predict that your opponent is trying to bait A-Marowak in so that they can hard switch to an unfavorable matchup, you can punish that play with hazard support or by simply calling their bluff. A-Marowak isn't going to be 6-0ing opposing teams for you, but it can provide support for teams that struggle with specific match-ups (in this case volt-turn or Electric Terrain teams) by forcing the opponent to make sub-optimal plays. And yeah, Marowak is slow as dirt, but its typing is obnoxious enough and its power / coverage are great enough that it is able to capitalize off of the positive match-ups it finds for itself. The possibility of A-Marowak switching in on your Xurkitree and forcing something on your team to eat a 210 base attack Shadow Bone or Flare Blitz is pretty frightening.

Keep in mind I don't think that A-Marowak will be an OU or even UU staple, but I think that it has a clearly defined enough niche to at least be worth giving the benefit of the doubt to.

 

[Flarowak]

So it walls Zapdos, Mancectric, Magnezone, and Tapu Koko with Lightning Rod and sacrifices power by dropping Rock Head Flare Blitz and has garbage speed and mediocre defenses, while still getting smashed hard by Raikou's Shadow Ball. And? Bulky Rotom-W out-speeds it, is immune to Bonemarang, resists Flare Blitz/Fire Punch, and Shadow Bone will only do about 50-60% with an Adamant Nature MAX ATK (if it switches in), so the most common Volt Switch user laughs at it since it has a 50% chance to just straight OHKO with Hydro Pump without Rocks up and with A-Marowak with MAX HP. I am sorry, but this thing just isn't going to do a whole lot in the meta. Heck, not even UU just because there are so many potent Dark and Water types in that tier that this thing would have little chance to do anything against.

Rock head doesn't boost anything it just gets rid of recoil. Also, switching into rotom with this thing ever would be retarded. That's just bad play, essentially the same thing as switching a Lati in on a Weavile low kick. You're switching into raikou, man, zapdos with ease. All of those mons are very relevant. also comes in on ferro relatively free and most other stall mons. Once it IS in, have fun finding a switch in that's taking it head on.

 

[Bugzy]

Could Araquanid be a good team mate for Marowak?

I was already thinking Marowak could work on a grassy terrain team and I think Araquanid could as well and he would absolutely hard counter any fire types that could threaten your grass mons like if you were using a chlorophyll sweeper. Also Marowak and Araquanid both seem hard to switch in on thanks to they're super strong STAB attacks.

Then again Marowak is super slow and so is Araquanid and maybe adding more slow but threatening attackers isn't actually that great.

 

[benjamin4321]

Rock head doesn't boost anything it just gets rid of recoil. Also, switching into rotom with this thing ever would be retarded. That's just bad play, essentially the same thing as switching a Lati in on a Weavile low kick. You're switching into raikou, man, zapdos with ease. All of those mons are very relevant. also comes in on ferro relatively free and most other stall mons. Once it IS in, have fun finding a switch in that's taking it head on.

Not raikou becuase of shadow ball, or mixed thundy because of knock off and rotom for obvious reasons. Countering 3/6 of the ou electrics is still kind of nice I guess especially if mag sees more play with the 2 new steel ultra beasts that will prob be ou

 

[Flarowak]

Not raikou becuase of shadow ball, or mixed thundy because of knock off and rotom for obvious reasons. Countering 3/6 of the ou electrics is still kind of nice I guess especially if mag sees more play with the 2 new steel ultra beasts that will prob be ou

Oh right I kmew that! lol

 

[Bugzy]

Tapu Bulu and Marowak have pretty good synergy. Marowak can take the Fire, Poison, Ice and Steel moves that Tapu Bulu is weak to and in return, Bulu resists the Dark, Water and Ground moves aimed at Marowak. The damage reduction on Earthquake is also great for Marowak as it makes taking on Garchomp and Landorus-T a far easier task. Pair this duo with something like Empoleon and you have a decent F+W+G core.

Trying to come up with a sun/grassy terrain team for Bulu and Marowak. I'm thinking Torkoal (for stealth rocks, rapid spin, and drought)/Bulu (for grassy surge obviously)/Marowak/ and then I'm really having trouble deciding after that.

I have considered running - Mega Scizor - doesn't like other steel types but Marowak handles them fine, doesn't really significantly benefit from grassy terrain though aside from the healing and no benefit at all from sun.

Serperior - Obviously benefits from grassy terrain and with Marowak maybe he can skip HP fire for something else, doesn't really benefit from sun.

Venusuar - With the grassy terrain boost maybe he's more viable as a chlorophyll sweeper again then again Mega Venusuar would like the passive healing, obviously gets huge benefits from sun and grassy terrain, with Marowak maybe he doesn't need to run HP fire and can run something else.

Mega Charizard Y - Secondary drought setter, Lightning Rod Marowak can switch into electric attacks aimed at him, gets no benefit from grassy terrain.

Empoleon could also be good as you pointed out... idk lots of options and maybe it's just not a good idea but I'd like to try it out.

 

[Pignot]

Good point. I could see A-Raichu with Electric Terrain (or some other way to set up E-Terrain) + Speed Swap paired with this thing. A-Marowak gets the base 110 Speed, but A-Raichu still gets its Speed doubled by E-Terrain. Just a bummer they're vulnerable to spread moves :/

Also remember, Raichu can then use Discharge without affecting Marowak.

 

[MoonDunes]

Whether it be OU, PU, VGC, or anything in between, I will absolutely find a way to use this guy on a competitive team. I think a lot of the people bashing are looking at his weaknesses without considering the fact that there will be 5 other teammates to build around him. If Alolan Marowak could solo every 'mon in the game, then there wouldn't be a point to it. He will punish pretty much any switch-in, and has great moves for coverage.
Fire/Ghost/Ground/Fighting has perfect neutral coverage, hitting 239 Pokemon neutrally and 561 super-effectively (I realize that's before the new Gen 7 mons, but you get my point.)

Trying to come up with a sun/grassy terrain team for Bulu and Marowak. I'm thinking Torkoal (for stealth rocks, rapid spin, and drought)/Bulu (for grassy surge obviously)/Marowak/ and then I'm really having trouble deciding after that.

I'm thinking this might be the best way. With sun up, you get rid of one weakness (Water) and Grassy Terrain effectively gets rid of another (besides the stray Earth Power, what ground coverage move isn't Earthquake/Bulldoze? Marowak bypasses this with Bonemerang). Leaving effectively Rock, Dark, and Ghosts as your main concerns. It has coverage moves to hit pretty much everything minus Water and Ground super-effectively. Plus, it's not like it has the absolute worst defenses in the world. Anything that doesn't KO this thing is gonna be taking quite a hit, even neutrally. I think Raikou (granted it'd be in Showdown only) could be a good teammate, with TBolt/Aura Sphere/Shadow Ball covering its weaknesses minus ground.

In VGC, Marowak actually is a good 'mon for the inevitable terrain wars. In Grassy Terrain, it will be one of the few pokemon able to throw off a strong ground-type move, while neutering incoming EQs. It pretty much nullifies any offensive advantages the opposing team gets from Electric Terrain. Psychic Terrain plays really well with Alolan Marowak in Trick Room, and can punish Psychics taking advantage of the terrain with Shadow Bone. Fairy Terrain (which will be the least popular of the terrains imo) is really only a boon to a WoW set, but doesn't take away any of its raw power. I 100% believe it can be used very effectively in Doubles, especially with the limitations of the Alola Dex.

I'm sorry, but I am just absolutely too hype for Alolan Marowak.

 

[Tory]

Step 1: Get a Blaziken, Ninjask, or Scoplipede in a Substitute to active Speed Boost.
Step 2: Baton Pass to Alolan Marowak and use Sword Dance.
Step 3: Enjoy your Thick Club.

 

[mattpla440]

Tapu Bulu and Marowak have pretty good synergy. Marowak can take the Fire, Poison, Ice and Steel moves that Tapu Bulu is weak to and in return, Bulu resists the Dark, Water and Ground moves aimed at Marowak. The damage reduction on Earthquake is also great for Marowak as it makes taking on Garchomp and Landorus-T a far easier task. Pair this duo with something like Empoleon and you have a decent F+W+G core.

This is my strategy for building a team for this season's VGC. I'm currently liking a core of Tapu Bulu, Gyarados, and Lightningrod A-Marowak. They all seem to cover each other well as grassy terrain can protect Marowak from EQs and Marowak can protect Gyarados from Electric attacks. I'm trying to figure out who else I can add to balance the team because it looks like I'm favoring the physical side way too much right now.

 

[Minwu]

Can this thing 2HKO Slowbro? Most bulky waters I'm assuming it wouldn't stay in on but it can actually outspeed Slowbro.

 

[Some random freak]

Can this thing 2HKO Slowbro? Most bulky waters I'm assuming it wouldn't stay in on but it can actually outspeed Slowbro.

Yes it can.

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 302-356 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.

It also beats Toxapex

252+ Atk Thick Club Alolan Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 184-220 (60.5 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Orga777]

Rock head doesn't boost anything it just gets rid of recoil. Also, switching into rotom with this thing ever would be retarded. That's just bad play, essentially the same thing as switching a Lati in on a Weavile low kick. You're switching into raikou, man, zapdos with ease. All of those mons are very relevant. also comes in on ferro relatively free and most other stall mons. Once it IS in, have fun finding a switch in that's taking it head on.

I know Rock Head doesn't boost. However, if you are running Flare Blitz on the Lightning Rod A-Maro, that just means it is infinitely easier to kill off due to its horrendous speed. Also, do you know who else switches in on Ferro and Skarm easily? Heatran. Which can also run Earth Power. Which kills Maro after rocks. And has Taunt-Toxic-Magma Storm for Stall. I just don't get why I would run Alolan Marowak with its trash speed over Heatran who also gets utility abilities this thing lacks. Sorry, but walling a couple electric types isn't really gonna cut the mustard here. It gets murdered by Weavile, Rotom, Landorus, bulky waters, Crawdaunt, T-Tar, and Air Balloon Tran. It can't switch into anything outside of predicted fighting moves or electric moves, and lacks the speed to do much afterward. Sure, it hits hard, but so does regular Marowak, who is in PU for a reason. Slightly better coverage isn't going to make it OU viable with all the threats running around that totally murder this thing. This is an RU mon at best.

 

[Flarowak]

B76

I know Rock Head doesn't boost. However, if you are running Flare Blitz on the Lightning Rod A-Maro, that just means it is infinitely easier to kill off due to its horrendous speed. Also, do you know who else switches in on Ferro and Skarm easily? Heatran. Which can also run Earth Power. Which kills Maro after rocks. And has Taunt-Toxic-Magma Storm for Stall. I just don't get why I would run Alolan Marowak with its trash speed over Heatran who also gets utility abilities this thing lacks. Sorry, but walling a couple electric types isn't really gonna cut the mustard here. It gets murdered by Weavile, Rotom, Landorus, bulky waters, Crawdaunt, T-Tar, and Air Balloon Tran. It can't switch into anything outside of predicted fighting moves or electric moves, and lacks the speed to do much afterward. Sure, it hits hard, but so does regular Marowak, who is in PU for a reason. Slightly better coverage isn't going to make it OU viable with all the threats running around that totally murder this thing. This is an RU mon at best.

Heatran and marowak are going to have to completely different roles. Again, I'm not saying it is an OU mon, but it will work for sure. the ability to come in on those electrics is a niche a lot of mons don't have and honestly you are really undervaluing the coverage. A great ghost stan like this is HUUUGE. Also, that's just the cost of flare blitz and this things goal isn't to eat hits. It's simply to come in and hit hard as hell. The mons you mentioned are definitely problems for it, but you get 5 other mons for a reason. I can pair this thing up with tapu bulu, kommo-o and a flying resist and be completely fine. He also doesn't need stall breaking moves like taunt or toxic when he can 2hko a pretty good amount of stall mons. I completely understand your points, I just think if you use this thing with the right mons and play it correctly he'll be fine. He'll take some support, but I don't see it being too hard.

 

[Bugzy]

I know Rock Head doesn't boost. However, if you are running Flare Blitz on the Lightning Rod A-Maro, that just means it is infinitely easier to kill off due to its horrendous speed. Also, do you know who else switches in on Ferro and Skarm easily? Heatran. Which can also run Earth Power. Which kills Maro after rocks. And has Taunt-Toxic-Magma Storm for Stall. I just don't get why I would run Alolan Marowak with its trash speed over Heatran who also gets utility abilities this thing lacks. Sorry, but walling a couple electric types isn't really gonna cut the mustard here. It gets murdered by Weavile, Rotom, Landorus, bulky waters, Crawdaunt, T-Tar, and Air Balloon Tran. It can't switch into anything outside of predicted fighting moves or electric moves, and lacks the speed to do much afterward. Sure, it hits hard, but so does regular Marowak, who is in PU for a reason. Slightly better coverage isn't going to make it OU viable with all the threats running around that totally murder this thing. This is an RU mon at best.

I don't think anyone is arguing that this thing is gonna be top tier OU, just looking at how it might be used if you were going to use it in that tier. His immunities and huge attack are his strength so people are just trying to figure out how you build around that. No one is saying he's meta defining or OMG this is gonna be the top tier mon! Think of it more like we're trying to solve a puzzle, how do you make this guy work in OU?, not like we're trying to build the most top tier efficient team for crushing the ladder.

 

[Flarowak]

I don't think anyone is arguing that this thing is gonna be top tier OU, just looking at how it might be used if you were going to use it in that tier. His immunities and huge attack are his strength so people are just trying to figure out how you build around that. No one is saying he's meta defining or OMG this is gonna be the top tier mon! Think of it more like we're trying to solve a puzzle, how do you make this guy work in OU?, not like we're trying to build the most top tier efficient team for crushing the ladder.

Exactly sir, we're just trying to figre out how to use this thing best, and I personally don't think it'll be super duper hard.

 

[Orga777]

B76

Heatran and marowak are going to have to completely different roles. Again, I'm not saying it is an OU mon, but it will work for sure. the ability to come in on those electrics is a niche a lot of mons don't have and honestly you are really undervaluing the coverage. A great ghost stan like this is HUUUGE. Also, that's just the cost of flare blitz and this things goal isn't to eat hits. It's simply to come in and hit hard as hell. The mons you mentioned are definitely problems for it, but you get 5 other mons for a reason. I can pair this thing up with tapu bulu, kommo-o and a flying resist and be completely fine. He also doesn't need stall breaking moves like taunt or toxic when he can 2hko a pretty good amount of stall mons. I completely understand your points, I just think if you use this thing with the right mons and play it correctly he'll be fine. He'll take some support, but I don't see it being too hard.

Any pokemon played right can be a problem. Doesn't mean it is optimal or good enough over all. It is constantly pressured, and predicted double switches destroy your momentum instantly because of how slow it is. There are just better wallbreakers, IMO.

 

[Flarowak]

Any pokemon played right can be a problem. Doesn't mean it is optimal or good enough over all. It is constantly pressured, and predicted double switches destroy your momentum instantly because of how slow it is. There are just better wallbreakers, IMO.

Nobody disagreed with any of that, I intend to build well around it and outplay. That's what I enjoy to do most anyway lol. I do still disagree with it always being pressured though, even though there are mons that can switch in on Maro, the switches are very limited. Bulky waters can only eat so many shadow bones, and lando can eat two flare blitz's at most. He just hits too hard to not create opportunities for other mons. However, all that being said, it isn't an OU mon. I do think it can work in the tier though.

 

[MoonDunes]

The argument " regular Marowak is PU, so is this thing" is a little flawed. First, Lightning Rod on regular Marowak gives it an immunity to something it is already immune to. Then resists poison and rock. STAB on ground, which a lot of 'mons already have. Meanwhile, A-Marowak has 10 resistances and 3 immunities. It has two great offensive STABs that Marowak didn't even have as coverage while maintaining the good coverage moves regular Marowak had. I agree this thing won't be top-tier OU, probably not OU at all, but it is definitely a contender to build a strong team around. This thing is totally different beast than regular Marowak, and better in almost every aspect to be quite honest. Regular Marowak is outperformed in nearly any role in a team. A-Marowak has a unique, hard-hitting physical STAB typing (if you want to run physical Chandelure, be my guest) off of a huge attack, an absolutely insane amount of key resistances and immunities, and great coverage. Yes, it's weaknesses are evident, but if a pokemon didn't have weaknesses, why would we even discuss building a team around them? I think it has potential to reach at least UU.

 

[lexgamer]

Speaking of team mates, I plan on having Electivire on my team as well, would Lightningrod still be best, given that I have Motor Drive? Or should I go Rock Head in this case?

To phrase this more generally than personally: Would an alternative electric immunity nullify the need for it on Marowak? Or would double the immunity still be preferable?

 

[Flarowak]

Speaking of team mates, I plan on having Electivire on my team as well, would Lightningrod still be best, given that I have Motor Drive? Or should I go Rock Head in this case?

To phrase this more generally than personally: Would an alternative electric immunity nullify the need for it on Marowak? Or would double the immunity still be preferable?

Yeah pretty much tbh. Unless you just wanted to ensure your immunity stuck lol.

 

[Deaga]

Step 1: Get a Blaziken, Ninjask, or Scoplipede in a Substitute to active Speed Boost.
Step 2: Baton Pass to Alolan Marowak and use Sword Dance.
Step 3: Enjoy your Thick Club.

Hey guys, remember when JoltWak was broken in GSC? Or JaskWak in Adv?
Neither do I, it has always been terrible! I don't think swapping ground typing for Ghost/Fire is going to do much to change that.

Also, Smogon rules ban Speedpassing for whatever reason, so that's also not legal in the Smogon metagame anyway.

 

[Flarowak]

Hey guys, remember when JoltWak was broken in GSC? Or JaskWak in Adv?
Neither do I, it has always been terrible! I don't think swapping ground typing for Ghost/Fire is going to do much to change that.

Also, Smogon rules ban Speedpassing for whatever reason, so that's also not legal in the Smogon metagame anyway.

Dude, what are you talking about? That is literally the only thing that makes Scolipede viable lol.

Edit: I stand corrected, I wasn't aware that change was ever made. Wow, interesting. Apologies sir, enjoy your day.

 

[Deaga]

It's somewhat recent, I think it only happened this year. Not the best rule imo, but it is what it is.

 

[Flarowak]

It's somewhat recent, I think it only happened this year. But the best rule imo, but it is what it is.

Yeah, I've never been one for passing so I had no idea. Last I remember, it was that you could only passed one step at a time. However, that could have been after and I just didn't notice lol.