Anything Goes Viability Ranking

Status
Not open for further replies.

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Alot have people have been questioning me upon if the recent revision of the BP clause will affect AG, due note that AG does not follow any Smogon rulesets besides the Endless Battle Clause. So keep on using your Moody Smeargles :)

P.S There has been talk of a Species Clause, which I highly doubt will ever happen
 

Chloe

is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
NUPL Champion
/cough/ klefki for S+ /cough/
/cough/ What a terrible idea! Klefki is definitely not S+ worthy. /cough/

I hate how you didn't even back it up with support arguments. Klefki is well prepared for in the current state of the meta, with often teams having many ways to stop it, such as lum berry spam and a move called substitute.. Klefki is very good, but not as good as Mega Rayquaza and Primal Groudon. S- suits it perfectly.

I assume you think Klefki should be that rank due to either you abusing it or you getting completely walled by it. If the latter I suggest you rethink your team and how it manages the most deadly threats in the metagame. If there's an actual argument for your statement, then please enlighten me.

(Also it sounds like im being harsh, which is not my primary intention)
 
I know I'm probably dropping the gun but shouldn't regular groudon's rank be reevaluated? Now that species clause doesn't exist the opportunity cost of using it over p don is now moot and it serves a good blanket check to opposing p don and a bunch of other physical attackers like e killer in the meta. It can even hold an item to fuck klefki if you really hate it that much. Also giratina altered's ranking might be worthy of a raise since it's a really good answer to primal groudon as it only 3hkos it at best.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
/cough/ klefki for S+ /cough/
Reasons that Zangooser stated above ^

Can someone explain to me why the S+, S, and S- mons are in their respective tiers? I'm curious
I will give a brief explanation for each:

S+

: Arguably the best mon in AG atm, due to the sheer versatility it can bring to the battlefield. Lum, Life Orb, Silk Scarf, Leftovers, you never know what set it is exactly running especially when their is more than one of them. Able to sweep teams with Ekiller, while also being able to stallbreak with it's taunt+will-o-wisp set. Extremely splashable, making it that there is no reason not to use it.

S

: Use to be considered the best mon in AG, but now has fallen due to Arceus slightly outclassing it in some sets. Still an amazing wallbreaker with it's lum+SD set, dealing impressive amount of damage practically 2HKOing the whole tier with a life orb. It is mostly prepared for now however.

: Its Geo+Herb set is truly amazing, being one of the best set up sweepers in the tier. It is very difficult to stop it once it sets up a Geo, with a decent movepool that can help deal with some checks and counters who resist Moonblast. But every decent team has an answer for it one way or another however.

: Very good utility mon, possessing a great typing with an ability that compliments it. Is used to check some of the meta's most prominent threats in Xerneas, Ekiller, Klefki and Mega Diancie. Also possesives other greats sets in Double Dance and it's lure set. Another splashable mon, which requires scouting to figure out it's exact set.

S-

: Being able to spread sleep like crazy, due to it having a high base 130 spd stat. It's NP set can rip through unprepared teams not carrying a magic bounce user. Is weak to strong priority attacks however, as it possess poor bulk.

: Keyspam is just so good in this meta, that every serious AG MUST have an answer for it to be effective. T-Wave, Foul Play, Swagger, and Substitute or other move to deal in it's checks and counters. Very annoying mon, which is pretty prepared for however.

: Being able to check the omnipresent keyspam and Darkrai's in the tier. While also possessing a decent offensive typing, with it's RP or CM sets breaking through stall and balance alike. Although some consider it being outclassed by Ray as a mega.

: One of the bulkiest mons in the meta, being able to face the most prominent threats in Ekiller, P-Don, Xern, and Mega Ray and phase them out. It can also run an effective CM set as a surprise factor to sweep unprepared teams.

Hope this helps :)

Edit: oops meant to say magic coat instead of taunt on Arceus
 
Last edited:
/cough/ What a terrible idea! Klefki is definitely not S+ worthy. /cough/

I hate how you didn't even back it up with support arguments. Klefki is well prepared for in the current state of the meta, with often teams having many ways to stop it, such as lum berry spam and a move called substitute.. Klefki is very good, but not as good as Mega Rayquaza and Primal Groudon. S- suits it perfectly.

I assume you think Klefki should be that rank due to either you abusing it or you getting completely walled by it. If the latter I suggest you rethink your team and how it manages the most deadly threats in the metagame. If there's an actual argument for your statement, then please enlighten me.

(Also it sounds like im being harsh, which is not my primary intention)
You seem to misinterpret what i meant. I was joking. : ^ (
 
Reasons that Zangooser stated above ^


I will give a brief explanation for each:

S+

: Arguably the best mon in AG atm, due to the sheer versatility it can bring to the battlefield. Lum, Life Orb, Silk Scarf, Leftovers, you never know what set it is exactly running especially when their is more than one of them. Able to sweep teams with Ekiller, while also being able to stallbreak with it's taunt+will-o-wisp set. Extremely splashable, making it that there is no reason not to use it.

S

: Use to be considered the best mon in AG, but now has fallen due to Arceus slightly outclassing it in some sets. Still an amazing wallbreaker with it's lum+SD set, dealing impressive amount of damage practically 2HKOing the whole tier with a life orb. It is mostly prepared for now however.

: Its Geo+Herb set is truly amazing, being one of the best set up sweepers in the tier. It is very difficult to stop it once it sets up a Geo, with a decent movepool that can help deal with some checks and counters who resist Moonblast. But every decent team has an answer for it one way or another however.

: Very good utility mon, possessing a great typing with an ability that compliments it. Is used to check some of the meta's most prominent threats in Xerneas, Ekiller, Klefki and Mega Diancie. Also possesives other greats sets in Double Dance and it's lure set. Another splashable mon, which requires scouting to figure out it's exact set.

S-

: Being able to spread sleep like crazy, due to it having a high base 130 spd stat. It's NP set can rip through unprepared teams not carrying a magic bounce user. Is weak to strong priority attacks however, as it possess poor bulk.

: Keyspam is just so good in this meta, that every serious AG MUST have an answer for it to be effective. T-Wave, Foul Play, Swagger, and Substitute or other move to deal in it's checks and counters. Very annoying mon, which is pretty prepared for however.

: Being able to check the omnipresent keyspam and Darkrai's in the tier. While also possessing a decent offensive typing, with it's RP or CM sets breaking through stall and balance alike. Although some consider it being outclassed by Ray as a mega.

: One of the bulkiest mons in the meta, being able to face the most prominent threats in Ekiller, P-Don, Xern, and Mega Ray and phase them out. It can also run an effective CM set as a surprise factor to sweep unprepared teams.

Hope this helps :)
Arceus can't learn taunt.
 

The Gunner

formerly Enzo Gorlami
is a Tiering Contributor
As a former #1 on the AG ladder, & someone who has played a plethora of AG games, I feel I have abundant experience to comment on this post.

I do not really have time to write an essay about my opinion, but I feel Lugia, Arceus-Steel and Diancie (unevolved) need to be re-evaluated.
First off, Lugia is only good at phazing out offensive threats with its defensive prowess & fantastic ability. However, a normal Lugia set is usually paired with Toxic/Roost/Whirlwind/Sub or any attacking move. Let me tell you why Lugia is inefficient in AG. It's a liability on most teams. Apart from phazing out pokemon, it loses to taunt Darkrai, Arceus-Steel, Diancie, taunt Mega Gengar & also ingrain Xerneas. All of which are very popular in the current AG meta. Lugia cannot even soft-check any of these mons, and hence acts as a liability on many teams. In my opinion, Lugia deserves to be in the A/A- range. Not as high up as S.

Next, I'd like to move on to Arceus-Steel. Offensive Arceus-Steel is a great wall breaker with its typing. It checks all non-geo xerns, beats Lugia, can run CM, beats fairyceus, 2hkos Mega-Ray with Judgment, beats Diancie, 2hkos E killer after rocks, which leads to a speed if E killer decides to set up. In my opinion, Arceus-Steel deserves more credit for its solid position in the metagame. It's also gained augmented popularity in the recent AG metagame. In my opinion, Arceus-Steel deserves an A/A+ at least. I have also used Arceus-Steel on my team, & you can check my team out here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ed-at-2040-116-6-record.3544114/#post-6326376

Finally, we move on to Unevolved Diancie. I don't have much to say about this. It's overall a garbage mon which does nothing in the AG metagame. All it can do is set up rocks, which a lot of other mons in AG can do BETTER. I think it should be scraped off the Viability Rankings in general.

I will make further comments at a later time. As of now, I do not have ample time to express my thoughts about each & every individual mon.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
As a former #1 on the AG ladder, & someone who has played a plethora of AG games, I feel I have abundant experience to comment on this post.

I do not really have time to write an essay about my opinion, but I feel Lugia, Arceus-Steel and Diancie (unevolved) need to be re-evaluated.
First off, Lugia is only good at phazing out offensive threats with its defensive prowess & fantastic ability. However, a normal Lugia set is usually paired with Toxic/Roost/Whirlwind/Sub or any attacking move. Let me tell you why Lugia is inefficient in AG. It's a liability on most teams. Apart from phazing out pokemon, it loses to taunt Darkrai, Arceus-Steel, Diancie, taunt Mega Gengar & also ingrain Xerneas. All of which are very popular in the current AG meta. Lugia cannot even soft-check any of these mons, and hence acts as a liability on many teams. In my opinion, Lugia deserves to be in the A/A- range. Not as high up as S.

Next, I'd like to move on to Arceus-Steel. Offensive Arceus-Steel is a great wall breaker with its typing. It checks all non-geo xerns, beats Lugia, can run CM, beats fairyceus, 2hkos Mega-Ray with Judgment, beats Diancie, 2hkos E killer after rocks, which leads to a speed if E killer decides to set up. In my opinion, Arceus-Steel deserves more credit for its solid position in the metagame. It's also gained augmented popularity in the recent AG metagame. In my opinion, Arceus-Steel deserves an A/A+ at least. I have also used Arceus-Steel on my team, & you can check my team out here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ed-at-2040-116-6-record.3544114/#post-6326376

Finally, we move on to Unevolved Diancie. I don't have much to say about this. It's overall a garbage mon which does nothing in the AG metagame. All it can do is set up rocks, which a lot of other mons in AG can do BETTER. I think it should be scraped off the Viability Rankings in general.

I will make further comments at a later time. As of now, I do not have ample time to express my thoughts about each & every individual mon.
Can agree on Arceus-Steel, but I would like to hear more discussion on Lugia and Diancie (base)
 
As a former #1 on the AG ladder, & someone who has played a plethora of AG games, I feel I have abundant experience to comment on this post.

I do not really have time to write an essay about my opinion, but I feel Lugia, Arceus-Steel and Diancie (unevolved) need to be re-evaluated.
First off, Lugia is only good at phazing out offensive threats with its defensive prowess & fantastic ability. However, a normal Lugia set is usually paired with Toxic/Roost/Whirlwind/Sub or any attacking move. Let me tell you why Lugia is inefficient in AG. It's a liability on most teams. Apart from phazing out pokemon, it loses to taunt Darkrai, Arceus-Steel, Diancie, taunt Mega Gengar & also ingrain Xerneas. All of which are very popular in the current AG meta. Lugia cannot even soft-check any of these mons, and hence acts as a liability on many teams. In my opinion, Lugia deserves to be in the A/A- range. Not as high up as S.

Next, I'd like to move on to Arceus-Steel. Offensive Arceus-Steel is a great wall breaker with its typing. It checks all non-geo xerns, beats Lugia, can run CM, beats fairyceus, 2hkos Mega-Ray with Judgment, beats Diancie, 2hkos E killer after rocks, which leads to a speed if E killer decides to set up. In my opinion, Arceus-Steel deserves more credit for its solid position in the metagame. It's also gained augmented popularity in the recent AG metagame. In my opinion, Arceus-Steel deserves an A/A+ at least. I have also used Arceus-Steel on my team, & you can check my team out here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ed-at-2040-116-6-record.3544114/#post-6326376

Finally, we move on to Unevolved Diancie. I don't have much to say about this. It's overall a garbage mon which does nothing in the AG metagame. All it can do is set up rocks, which a lot of other mons in AG can do BETTER. I think it should be scraped off the Viability Rankings in general.

I will make further comments at a later time. As of now, I do not have ample time to express my thoughts about each & every individual mon.
I like what you said about Lugia but I don't really agree that Diancie should just be moved off. You haven't even mentioned it's main niche, which by the way is acting as a TR setter which can quickly blow itself up to make way for a teammate to sweep. Yes, it's a pretty bad niche, but it's good enough to stay. (at least c-)
Joshz, I think you exaggerate too much pls

I agree with steelceus being moved up, and unevolved diancie being 100000% useless.
I think Lugia should be at least A+, it is incredibly useful as a wall/staller, and is on very many teams for that reason.



Also, I would like to recommend M-sableye to be dropped to A- or B+ from the current A+ rank. It's almost unseen from what I've seen in high ladder AG first of all, but besides that, it's stats simply aren't good enough to stall in AG. There are far better mons in every way, and while prankster is nice lum berry is very common (although generally intended for darkrai) and magic bounce simply isn't useful enough. I'm not saying it doesn't have it's use in AG, but it is definitely not in the same league as the other A+ mons.
Wow.
Firstly, I don't see how Mega Sab's stats "aren't good enough to stall". They are most definitely good enough, especially when you consider that it has the highest bulk of all Magic Bouncers. Prankster may also be slightly limited by Lum, but then it is still pretty useful in general and besides, Sab only stays non-mega 1/2 the time. Also: "magic bounce simply isn't useful enough" I don't even need to say any more.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Chloe

is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
NUPL Champion
I like what you said about Lugia but I don't really agree that Diancie should just be moved off. You haven't even mentioned it's main niche, which by the way is acting as a TR setter which can quickly blow itself up to make way for a teammate to sweep. Yes, it's a pretty bad niche, but it's good enough to stay. (at least c-)
Joshz, I think you exaggerate too much pls
I disagree. Any trick room user can do that. Why does Diancie deserve to be ranked over Carbink? Is it its magic bounce bluff? Pls elaborate.
 
I disagree. Any trick room user can do that. Why does Diancie deserve to be ranked over Carbink? Is it its magic bounce bluff? Pls elaborate.
it has some actual offensive presence, forces out troll pokemon to some extent, and can bluff a Mega, and thus it's speed tier.
Besides, don't bring up Carbink please... It's totally outclassed in every area by Diancie, so I don't see what is your point. (also diancie has a stronger explosion :P)
One of the main reasons why it isn't outclassed by other TR setters is because it isn't forced out by Ho-oh and Yveltal, so there's that too.
 
Last edited:

Chloe

is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
NUPL Champion
it has some actual offensive presence, forces out troll pokemon to some extent, and can bluff a Mega, and thus it's speed tier.
Besides, don't bring up Carbink please... It's totally outclassed in every area by Diancie, so I don't see what is your point. (also diancie has a stronger explosion :P)
One of the main reasons why it isn't outclassed by other TR setters is because it isn't forced out by Ho-oh and Yveltal, so there's that too.
I'm just going to say, I've never seen a trick room diancie in AG, in fact according to the 1760 stats Trick Room would be under a 3% usage if any (since its last move stat is AncientPower at 4%). Ranking Diancie as a TR setter is like rating a Darkrai scarf set. (http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-06/moveset/anythinggoes-1760.txt)

I do understand that usage =/= viability, but there's a reason you don't see trick room in AG. I just don't know if we should be ranking Pokemon on a strategy never seen. Trick Room is fairly unviable with the amount of priority of the meta. It isn't the reason Diancie is there even. Also, I didn't really care about the ranking. I'm just really bored and pondering the viability of trick room in AG.
 
I'm just going to say, I've never seen a trick room diancie in AG, in fact according to the 1760 stats Trick Room would be under a 3% usage if any (since its last move stat is AncientPower at 4%). Ranking Diancie as a TR setter is like rating a Darkrai scarf set. (http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-06/moveset/anythinggoes-1760.txt)

I do understand that usage =/= viability, but there's a reason you don't see trick room in AG. I just don't know if we should be ranking Pokemon on a strategy never seen. Trick Room is fairly unviable with the amount of priority of the meta. It isn't the reason Diancie is there even. Also, I didn't really care about the ranking. I'm just really bored and pondering the viability of trick room in AG.
I know that TR isn't very good (some might say it's horrible), but that's like 1/2 Diancie's niche other than being some sort of support mon not weak to Ho-oh and Yveltal. I am actually pretty okay with Diancie being unranked. It's not like it's that important anyway.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Update time :)

Code:
Smeargle: A+ to A-
Arceus-Ghost: A+ to A
Sableye-Mega: A+ to A
Ho-Oh: A to A+
Mewtwo: A to B+
Mewtwo-Mega X: A to B+
Arceus-Ground: A- to A
Aegislash: B+ to B
Kyogre: B to C
Arceus-Steel: B to A-
Arceus-Rock: B- to A-
Palkia: B- to C
Diancie: C+ to Unranked
Deoxys-Defense: C to D
Murkrow: C to C-
Reshiram: C- to D
Discuss the new changes, and other nominations that you feel that should take place
 
Mamoswine: Unranked ---> C+

A set of Icicle Spear/Ice Shard/Earthquake/Superpower @ Lum Berry is able to prevent Smeargle from setting up, destroy Klefki and defeat Darkrai and Mega Diancie, which I think is important in this meta. It also 2HKOes Primal Groudon.
 

Chloe

is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
NUPL Champion
Mamoswine: Unranked ---> C+

A set of Icicle Spear/Ice Shard/Earthquake/Superpower @ Lum Berry is able to prevent Smeargle from setting up, destroy Klefki and defeat Darkrai and Mega Diancie, which I think is important in this meta. It also 2HKOes Primal Groudon.
Ok well nearly anything can kill a Smeargle 1v1. But if we run this lum set you speak of:

252+ Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 276-326 (86.7 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 196-232 (69.5 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO --> then ice shard I guess?

252+ Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 332-392 (137.7 - 162.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 236-282 (63.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Here's some calcs just to aid others decisions, I don't have anything to say for this matter.
 
Hi, this is PachChomp! Can someone explain why Murkrow is ranked? I've never seen it on any of my battles with people on Top 500 while I understand it has Prankster, but what niche does it have to make it ranked?
Oh, but also, even though this is off topic, how do I change my username on here? I want it to become PachChomp.
 

Josh

=P
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Hi, this is PachChomp! Can someone explain why Murkrow is ranked? I've never seen it on any of my battles with people on Top 500 while I understand it has Prankster, but what niche does it have to make it ranked?
Oh, but also, even though this is off topic, how do I change my username on here? I want it to become PachChomp.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/name-and-profile-change-requests.3508997
There ya go mate :)

I've never seen murkrow either, it's just a miscellaneous super-niche shitmon. Don't put it on any of your teams lel.
 
Hi, this is PachChomp! Can someone explain why Murkrow is ranked? I've never seen it on any of my battles with people on Top 500 while I understand it has Prankster, but what niche does it have to make it ranked?
Oh, but also, even though this is off topic, how do I change my username on here? I want it to become PachChomp.
murkrow has prankster swagplay and in particular gets stab on foul play and isn't really that frail with eviolite
eh, it's kind of weird to call yourself a username even though you haven't changed yet. fyi, you need to ask for permission in one of the subforums.
joshz i don't like how you tag almost every non-klefki annoy mon as "shitty" or any other synonyms of that word. I doubt you have even used them. Why would we rank Murkrow if it did not have a niche?
 

Josh

=P
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
murkrow has prankster swagplay and in particular gets stab on foul play and isn't really that frail with eviolite
eh, it's kind of weird to call yourself a username even though you haven't changed yet. fyi, you need to ask for permission in one of the subforums.
joshz i don't like how you tag almost every non-klefki annoy mon as "shitty" or any other synonyms of that word. I doubt you have even used them. Why would we rank Murkrow if it did not have a niche?
Link me a single high ladder game you have seen someone using murkrow please. A single one. He's simply outclassed. It does have a niche, but a very specific one, and AlphaBattle is a new/inexperienced user so why not make it simple for him in that he shouldn't use it? A lot of people get mistaken when they are new and think low rank mons are still viable on most teams, which they clearly aren't.
 
ok i see your point Murkrow is very bad outside of STAB Foul Play, but you can't say it's unviable. Even if it's terribad etc. etc., it's still technically usable because it's on the list, just severely outclassed. Even if you are right, you came off as a little arrogant in the post to me. (no offense).
new/inexperienced user
im pretty sure both of us count as inexperienced users
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top