Ubers Arceus-Water

Fireflame

Silksong when
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QC:
Aurora / Minority / Nayrz
GP: The Dutch Plumberjack / frenzyplant

[OVERVIEW]

Arceus-Water's excellent bulk combined with its pure Water typing makes it one of the best support Arceus formes for balanced and defensive teams, capable of checking top-tier threats such as Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground, Ho-Oh, Zygarde-C, Mega Lucario, and Mega Salamence. Arceus-Water's typing gives it valuable resistances to Ice-, Water-, and Fire-type moves as well as no common weaknesses, letting it switch into most attacks comfortably. Due to this, Arceus-Water is one of the best Defog users and can use the move often, which grants great defensive utility to all teams. Furthermore, Arceus-Water's high Speed allows it to outspeed many common offensive Pokemon it is meant to check, and it is also able to punish the Pokemon it checks with Toxic. However, Arceus-Water is passive due to its limited ability to punish its common defensive answers like Steel-types, making it vulnerable to Toxic, setup, and Mega Gengar, which give the opponent momentum. Arceus-Water has four-moveslot syndrome, often having to decide which attacking moves it uses. It succumbs to specialized sets designed to beat it from Pokemon it is otherwise meant to check, such as Swords Dance Primal Groudon and Z-Move users. Arceus-Water also faces competition from Arceus-Ground and Arceus-Fairy as a defensive Arceus forme, with the former being able to check Primal Groudon more reliably and the latter being able to check Marshadow and Yveltal.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Recover
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Defog / Ice Beam
move 4: Ice Beam / Judgment
item: Splash Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Recover is necessary in order to keep Arceus-Water healthy throughout the match and enable it to consistently check the Pokemon that it needs to. Toxic allows Arceus-Water to deal with Primal Groudon and cripple Pokemon like Ho-Oh, Arceus-Fairy, and Lugia. Defog provides important entry hazard removal; Arceus-Water's typing and bulk allow it to use Defog often and thus make it one of the best users of the move. However, if entry hazard removal is present on your team already, Arceus-Water can forgo Defog. Ice Beam OHKOes Mega Salamence and Rayquaza, dents Zygarde-C, and chips away at Primal Groudon, allowing Arceus-Water to check them better. Judgment gives Arceus-Water a decently powerful STAB move, capable of hitting Steel- and Fire-types, doing chip damage to switch-ins, and augmenting its ability to check Ho-Oh and Arceus-Ground. Using both Judgment and Ice Beam gives Arceus-Water maximum effectiveness against all of the aforementioned threats. Fire Blast can be used to hit Mega Lucario for a potential OHKO as well as deter defensive Steel-types like Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, and Magearna from switching in.

Set Details
========

Splash Plate is required to use Arceus-Water and boosts the power of Judgment. The given Speed EVs with a Timid nature allow Arceus-Water to outspeed Jolly Mega Lucario and anything slower. The rest of the EVs aim to maximize Arceus-Water's physical bulk, allowing it to check what it needs to. Specifically, 64 Defense EVs let Arceus-Water take a +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence. An EV spread of 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe with a Bold nature gives Arceus-Water more bulk while still outspeeding positive-natured base 90s, but it will be outsped by Mega Lucario.

Usage Tips
========

Due to its typing and bulk, Arceus-Water is able to switch into most neutral physical attacks relatively comfortably. It is a solid and consistent switch-in to common threats such as Primal Groudon, Zygarde-C, Mega Salamence, Arceus-Ground, and Ho-Oh. Arceus-Water is also useful for playing around Primal Kyogre. Arceus-Water can be brought into Primal Kyogre relatively safely if Primal Kyogre switched into Primal Groudon; Primal Groudon can then come back in due to Desolate Land overriding Primordial Sea again. Be cautious against Mega Gengar, since it can easily trap and KO Arceus-Water if it switches in healthy. If Arceus-Water lacks Judgment, it is more vulnerable to Mega Gengar; double switching to another Pokemon can keep Arceus-Water safe.

Once in, Arceus-Water should use Recover to maintain its health and Toxic to cripple the opposing team, though it should switch out against a predicted Steel-type switch-in in order to gain momentum. Because Arceus-Water frequently switches into play, it will probably end up trading Toxic with another Pokemon it would try to cripple, such as either Giratina forme, Arceus-Fairy, or opposing Arceus-Water. Judgment and Ice Beam should be used to chip switch-ins that are already afflicted with Toxic. Ice Beam should also be used to hit Rayquaza, Mega Salamence, Zygarde-C, and even offensive Yveltal on predicted switches. Note that although Arceus-Water can beat standard defensive Primal Groudon, it cannot defeat Swords Dance Primal Groudon without assistance. Arceus-Water should use Toxic against it, and then you should stall Primal Groudon out for a couple of turns by switching to other Pokemon until you rack up enough Toxic damage to KO it. Arceus-Water is also bothered by defensive Primal Groudon that opt for Toxic; this most likely results in it trading Toxic with Primal Groudon, though this is less of a concern if you have a cleric on your team. If Arceus-Water is carrying Defog, it is best used on forced switches due to how vulnerable Arceus-Water is to setup and status. Arceus-Water can stay in on Primal Groudon and use Defog against it, though. Arceus-Water can be used as a Will-O-Wisp absorber, as it is much better for it to get burned than hit with Toxic. Doing this allows Arceus-Water to better stop opposing Toxic users.

Team Options
========

Arceus-Water can fit on many balanced and defensive teams due to its extreme defensive utility. Celesteela is Arceus-Water's best partner, as it takes pressure off of Arceus-Water due to it also checking Mega Salamence; this lets Arceus-Water use Defog over Ice Beam more easily. Celesteela is also able to check Double Dance Primal Groudon, which would otherwise overwhelm Arceus-Water, and it appreciates Arceus-Water's ability to check Ho-Oh. Primal Groudon can check Xerneas and Primal Kyogre and beat most Steel-types, which threaten Arceus-Water, while Arceus-Water can handle Arceus-Ground and Mega Salamence in return. Ho-Oh also checks Xerneas and Steel-types as well as benefiting from the Defog support Arceus-Water provides. A Defog user like Giratina-O or Giratina is able to free up a moveslot for Arceus-Water, allowing it to use both Ice Beam and Judgment. Giratina-O can also deal with Primal Groudon. Mega Diancie grants a second method of entry hazard removal and appreciates Arceus-Water's ability to check Arceus-Ground. A secondary Primal Groudon check such as Lugia, Zygarde-C, Giratina-O, or Mega Salamence is able to relieve Arceus-Water of pressure. Arceus-Water values a Steel-type like Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, Magearna, or Aegislash that is able to check Xerneas, which is threatening to Arceus-Water, and absorb Toxic. If Arceus-Water is running 124 Speed EVs, Aegislash can ensure your team has a reliable answer to Mega Lucario. Setup sweepers like Xerneas, Extreme Killer Arceus, Bulk Up Marshadow, Mega Lucario, and Rayquaza benefit from Arceus-Water's ability to remove hazards, switch into threats, and chip away at the opposing team with Toxic. Mega Sableye can bounce back entry hazards and status aimed at Arceus-Water while also checking Extreme Killer Arceus. Blissey is able to check most special attackers and can keep Arceus-Water healthy with Heal Bell and Wish. Arceus-Water is able to deal with physical threats to it in return.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Will-O-Wisp can be used to cripple strong physical attackers like Arceus-Ground, Marshadow, and Mega Lucario. However, Primal Groudon is immune to Will-O-Wisp, and Toxic is extremely important for Arceus-Water to beat it. Refresh clears Arceus-Water of status, particularly Toxic, but there is no room to fit it. Grass Knot 3HKOes Primal Kyogre, allowing Arceus-Water to defeat defensive Rest sets, but it is hard to fit when Judgment and Ice Beam offer far superior coverage. A Waterium Z + Swords Dance set with Aqua Tail and Earthquake can 2HKO Primal Groudon and Xerneas at +2, but there are more effective Swords Dance Arceus formes, especially Extreme Killer Arceus. Arceus-Water is able to set up Calm Mind frequently because of its bulk and typing, but Arceus-Ground and Arceus-Dark are better Calm Mind Arceus formes.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Steel-types**: Steel-types like Dialga, Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, Solgaleo, Aegislash, and Celesteela are immune to Toxic, and the more defensive ones completely wall Arceus-Water. Furthermore, many of these Steel-types can cripple Arceus-Water with their own Toxic and stall it out. However, none of them barring Dialga appreciate taking Fire Blast.

**Toxic**: Toxic completely undermines Arceus-Water's defensive capabilities. Any Toxic user can cripple Arceus-Water on the switch. Blissey, Chansey, and Steel-type Toxic users are the most dangerous because Blissey and Chanseycan cure Arceus-Water's Toxic with Heal Bell, while Steel-types are immune to it.

**Mega Gengar**: If Mega Gengar switches in safely, it can trap and remove Arceus-Water with powerful STAB attacks or Destiny Bond. It can do so more easily if Arceus-Water lacks Judgment. However, Mega Gengar needs to be wary of Judgment.

**Setup Sweepers**: Setup sweepers like Geomancy Xerneas, Swords Dance Primal Groudon, Calm Mind Mega Mewtwo Y, and Swords Dance and Calm Mind Arceus formes can take advantage of Arceus-Water's passivity and use it as setup fodder.

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre can switch into Arceus-Water extremely easily, as it resists both Ice Beam and Judgment. Offensive sets can 2HKO Arceus-Water with Thunder, while defensive variants can cure themselves of Toxic poison with Rest. Primal Kyogre needs to be careful of the rare Grass Knot, though.

**Powerful Attackers**: Very powerful attackers like Deoxys-A, offensive Primal Kyogre, Choice Specs Yveltal, and Kyurem-W can simply overpower Arceus-Water with their extremely powerful STAB moves.

**Specialized Z-Move Users**: Certain sets such as Supersonic Skystrike Dragon Dance Rayquaza and Supersonic Skystrike Landorus-T can potentially use their Z-Moves to KO Arceus-Water.

**Electric-types**: Zekrom, Tapu Koko, and Arceus-Electric can hit Arceus-Water with super effective Electric-type STAB moves, though they take a decent amount of damage if they switch into Arceus-Water's attacks.

**Grass-types**: Shaymin-S outspeeds Arceus-Water and can OHKO it with Seed Flare, but it can't switch into Ice Beam. Arceus-Grass can switch into Arceus-Water's Judgment and threaten it with its own Judgment.
 
Last edited:

Fireflame

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Believe this is ready for QC. Not sure what to put for the standard EV spread because it's so flexible.
 

aurora

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252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe with a Timid Nature should be the main spread. The cost of being a support Arceus forme vulnerable to Lucario is too great. The only other benchmark worth mentioning is the one you have already, which should be relegated to Set Details.

Defog should occupy its own moveslot and be slashed with Ice Beam; Arceus-Water can pick what it wants to do depending on its partners but Defog is more utilitarian in general. Also, since you are usually going to pair Arceus-Water with Celesteela, Mega Salamence is less of a concern. Fire Blast should be mentioned in Moves as it lets Arceus-Water discourage Ferrothorn from switching in, which it is bait for otherwise, while retaining a solid damage option against Mega Lucario. I think it could even be slashed with Judgment and Ice Beam but see what other QC think first.

Celesteela should be at the very top of Team Options. It is by far Arceus-Water's best partner, taking a lot of the load off checking Mega Salamence; this lets Arceus-Water consider Defog over Ice Beam more easily. It is able to check things like Double Dance EdgeQuake Primal Groudon that would otherwise overwhelm Arceus-Water while appreciating Arceus-Water's ability to 1v1 things like Ho-Oh. Aegislash should be mentioned as well specifically for 124 Speed Arceus-Water, as it ensures the team can still have a chance against Mega Lucario.

Calm Mind should probably be removed from OO; Arceus-Water is a horrible user of the move. Stealth Rock doesn't really turn me on either, and I cannot see myself ever using Reflect.

The Steel-types section in C&C needs to mention Fire Blast as a negative against them; none of them, except for Dialga, like eating a Fire Blast. Choice Band Rayquaza is awful so remove it. Mega Lucario should not be mentioned in C&C, as one of Arceus-Water's main functions in Ubers is to check it.
 

Fireflame

Silksong when
is a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe with a Timid Nature should be the main spread. The cost of being a support Arceus forme vulnerable to Lucario is too great. The only other benchmark worth mentioning is the one you have already, which should be relegated to Set Details.

Defog should occupy its own moveslot and be slashed with Ice Beam; Arceus-Water can pick what it wants to do depending on its partners but Defog is more utilitarian in general. Also, since you are usually going to pair Arceus-Water with Celesteela, Mega Salamence is less of a concern. Fire Blast should be mentioned in Moves as it lets Arceus-Water discourage Ferrothorn from switching in, which it is bait for otherwise, while retaining a solid damage option against Mega Lucario. I think it could even be slashed with Judgment and Ice Beam but see what other QC think first.

Celesteela should be at the very top of Team Options. It is by far Arceus-Water's best partner, taking a lot of the load off checking Mega Salamence; this lets Arceus-Water consider Defog over Ice Beam more easily. It is able to check things like Double Dance EdgeQuake Primal Groudon that would otherwise overwhelm Arceus-Water while appreciating Arceus-Water's ability to 1v1 things like Ho-Oh. Aegislash should be mentioned as well specifically for 124 Speed Arceus-Water, as it ensures the team can still have a chance against Mega Lucario.

Calm Mind should probably be removed from OO; Arceus-Water is a horrible user of the move. Stealth Rock doesn't really turn me on either, and I cannot see myself ever using Reflect.

The Steel-types section in C&C needs to mention Fire Blast as a negative against them; none of them, except for Dialga, like eating a Fire Blast. Choice Band Rayquaza is awful so remove it. Mega Lucario should not be mentioned in C&C, as one of Arceus-Water's main functions in Ubers is to check it.
Implemented
 

aurora

GODQUAZA
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Looks better now. Just a few more things:

Remove the comment about Arceus-Water's EV spread being 'flexible'; it isn't nowadays. Don't mention Jolly Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh as essential Speed benchmarks for the main EV spread. The former does not exist while the latter is very rare. Mega Lucario is the only reason Arceus-Water runs that many Speed EVs; in the past, it could afford to run much less and invest more heavily in bulk, but that is no longer the case. Remove the 16 Speed benchmark; it leaves Arceus-Water outsped by too many things.

Mention in Usage Tips that Arceus-Water can be annoyed by support Primal Groudon that opt for Toxic; in an in-game scenario, you're probably going to end up trading Toxic with Primal Groudon. This is fine if you have some sort of cleric, like Aromatherapy Xerneas or Blissey, but can be a bother if this is not the case, so it is worth mentioning. Usage Tips should also mention how Arceus-Water is a useful Arceus forme for playing around Primal Kyogre. You can bring Arceus-Water into Primal Kyogre relatively safely if Kyogre comes into Primal Groudon; Primal Groudon can then come back in. No other (good) support Arceus forme can afford to do that!

Mega Diancie should be mentioned in Team Options; having two methods of hazard removal is pretty useful for some teams, and Arceus-Water can check Arceus-Ground.

Remove Bloom Doom Reshiram from C&C. It's D rank. Arceus-Grass should be mentioned alongside Shaymin-S and the last category of C&C changed to 'Grass-types', as, for all of its flaws, it is an extremely solid (and somewhat viable) check to Arceus-Water.

Implement this for QC 1/3
 

Fireflame

Silksong when
is a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Looks better now. Just a few more things:

Remove the comment about Arceus-Water's EV spread being 'flexible'; it isn't nowadays. Don't mention Jolly Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh as essential Speed benchmarks for the main EV spread. The former does not exist while the latter is very rare. Mega Lucario is the only reason Arceus-Water runs that many Speed EVs; in the past, it could afford to run much less and invest more heavily in bulk, but that is no longer the case. Remove the 16 Speed benchmark; it leaves Arceus-Water outsped by too many things.

Mention in Usage Tips that Arceus-Water can be annoyed by support Primal Groudon that opt for Toxic; in an in-game scenario, you're probably going to end up trading Toxic with Primal Groudon. This is fine if you have some sort of cleric, like Aromatherapy Xerneas or Blissey, but can be a bother if this is not the case, so it is worth mentioning. Usage Tips should also mention how Arceus-Water is a useful Arceus forme for playing around Primal Kyogre. You can bring Arceus-Water into Primal Kyogre relatively safely if Kyogre comes into Primal Groudon; Primal Groudon can then come back in. No other (good) support Arceus forme can afford to do that!

Mega Diancie should be mentioned in Team Options; having two methods of hazard removal is pretty useful for some teams, and Arceus-Water can check Arceus-Ground.

Remove Bloom Doom Reshiram from C&C. It's D rank. Arceus-Grass should be mentioned alongside Shaymin-S and the last category of C&C changed to 'Grass-types', as, for all of its flaws, it is an extremely solid (and somewhat viable) check to Arceus-Water.

Implement this for QC 1/3
Implemented
 

Minority

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Overview

It is able to punish its common switch-ins with Toxic.
Not really. If you look at your list in C&C, the top switch-ins are Toxic immune or can punish hard enough before Toxic damage has a substantial effect. I'd argue its punish ops vs. most defensive switch-ins is basically zero. Cut this point or change it to be accurate.

Arceus-Water is one of the best Defog users, which grants it great defensive utility to all teams
If this is a point you want in the intro, there should be a brief reasoning as to why it's one of the best Defoggers. What qualities make this mon in particular effective at Defogging? Be short and to the point instead of saying that Defog grants great defensive utility - that almost goes without saying.

However, Arceus-Water is passive, making it vulnerable to status like Toxic, setup sweepers, and Mega Gengar.
Information here is fine, but think big picture: passive mons have weak punish ops (see first point) and yield momentum to the opponent.

Moves

The last two moveslots depend on what Arceus-Water needs to do for your team
Point goes without saying, remove.

Ice Beam OHKOes Mega Salamence and Rayquaza, dents Zygarde-C, and chips away and Primal Groudon, allowing Arceus-Water to check them better. Keep in mind that running Ice Beam instead of Judgment makes Arceus-Water completely walled by Steel-types and more vulnerable to Ho-Oh, Arceus-Ground, and Blaziken. Judgment gives Arceus-Water a decently powerful STAB move capable of hitting Steel- and Fire-types and chipping switch-ins while augmenting its ability to check Ho-Oh and Arceus-Ground. Note that opting for Judgment over Ice Beam gives Arceus-Water a much harder time dealing with Primal Groudon, Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, and Zygarde-C.
Eliminate the redundancy in these two points. You only need to mention the pros of running each move since the cons are ingrained in the targets of what the other option provides.

Fire Blast can be used to discourage Ferrothorn from switching in as well as hitting Mega Lucario for a potential OHKO.
Being able to smash Mega Luke is the biggest reason and should be at the forefront. Being able to mess with defensive Steels better is also good, and there are more than just Ferro.

Set Details

I need to see more sufficient justification described here for not running maximum Speed to dump 64 EVs in Def. You're giving up concrete Speed benchmarks like vs. Arc and Mence, therefore you better be getting something pretty nice by running those extra 64 Def EVs instead. That's what needs to be rationalized here.

Usage Tips

Some of this information is shallow and seems to lack practical knowledge about the tier. Add depth to this section. You can chat with other QC members to get more input.

Other Options

I'd add Swords Dance and Calm Mind sets here considering that you've listed things like ID and Perish Song.

Checks and Counters

**Setup Sweepers**: Setup sweepers like Geomancy Xerneas, Z-Geomancy Xerneas, Swords Dance Primal Groudon, and Swords Dance and Calm Mind Arceus formes can take advantage of Arceus-Water's passivity and use it as setup fodder.
No need to mention both variants of Geo Xern here, a simple "Geomancy Xerneas" is sufficient. Replace it with another setup sweeper example.


Implement these changes and I'll stamp.
 

Fireflame

Silksong when
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Overview

Not really. If you look at your list in C&C, the top switch-ins are Toxic immune or can punish hard enough before Toxic damage has a substantial effect. I'd argue its punish ops vs. most defensive switch-ins is basically zero. Cut this point or change it to be accurate.

If this is a point you want in the intro, there should be a brief reasoning as to why it's one of the best Defoggers. What qualities make this mon in particular effective at Defogging? Be short and to the point instead of saying that Defog grants great defensive utility - that almost goes without saying.

Information here is fine, but think big picture: passive mons have weak punish ops (see first point) and yield momentum to the opponent.

Moves

Point goes without saying, remove.

Eliminate the redundancy in these two points. You only need to mention the pros of running each move since the cons are ingrained in the targets of what the other option provides.

Being able to smash Mega Luke is the biggest reason and should be at the forefront. Being able to mess with defensive Steels better is also good, and there are more than just Ferro.

Set Details

I need to see more sufficient justification described here for not running maximum Speed to dump 64 EVs in Def. You're giving up concrete Speed benchmarks like vs. Arc and Mence, therefore you better be getting something pretty nice by running those extra 64 Def EVs instead. That's what needs to be rationalized here.

Usage Tips

Some of this information is shallow and seems to lack practical knowledge about the tier. Add depth to this section. You can chat with other QC members to get more input.

Other Options

I'd add Swords Dance and Calm Mind sets here considering that you've listed things like ID and Perish Song.

Checks and Counters

No need to mention both variants of Geo Xern here, a simple "Geomancy Xerneas" is sufficient. Replace it with another setup sweeper example.


Implement these changes and I'll stamp.
Implemented. I tried to incorporate more depth to Usage Tips without going too overboard.
 
The note about switching into Kyogre and then back to Groudon in Usage Tips should explain it is due to overriding the weathers for improved clarity.

Iron Defense and Perish Song should be removed from OO - they are too niche to function. SD and CM can stay so that they can at least be covered to explain their issues and comparison to better Arceus formes for that role, despite them also being very niche.

QC 3/3
 

Lumari

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GP 1/2
[OVERVIEW]

Arceus-Water's excellent bulk combined with its pure Water typing makes it one of the best support Arceus formes for balanced and defensive teams, capable of checking top-tier (AH) threats such as Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground, (AH) Ho-Oh, Zygarde-C, Mega Lucario, and Mega Salamence. Arceus-Water's typing gives it valuable resistances to Ice-, Water-, and Fire-type moves, as well as giving it no common weaknesses, letting it switch into most attacks comfortably. Due to this, Arceus-Water is one of the best Defog users and can use the move often, which grants great defensive utility to all teams. Furthermore, Arceus-Water's high Speed allows it to outspeed many common offensive Pokemon it is meant to check, and it is also able to punish the Pokemon it checks with Toxic. However, Arceus-Water is passive due to its bad punish game against its common defensive answers like Steel-types, making it vulnerable to Toxic, setup, and Mega Gengar, which give the opponent momentum. Arceus-Water has four-moveslot syndrome, often having to decide which attacking moves it uses. It succumbs to specialized sets designed to beat it from Pokemon it is otherwise meant to check, such as Swords Dance Primal Groudon and Z-Move users. Arceus-Water also faces competition from Arceus-Groud and Arceus-Fairy as a defensive Arceus forme, with the former being able to check Primal Groudon more reliably and the latter being able to check Marshadow and Yveltal.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Recover
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Defog / Ice Beam
move 4: Ice Beam / Judgment
item: Splash Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Recover is necessary in order to keep Arceus-Water healthy throughout the match and enable it to consistently check the Pokemon that it needs to. Toxic allows Arceus-Water to deal with Primal Groudon and cripple Pokemon like Ho-Oh, Arceus-Fairy, and Lugia. Defog provides important entry hazard removal; Arceus-Water's typing and bulk allows allow it to use Defog often and thus make it one of the best users of the move. However, if entry hazard removal is present on your team already, then Arceus-Water can forgo Defog. Ice Beam OHKOes Mega Salamence and Rayquaza, dents Zygarde-C, and chips away and Primal Groudon, allowing Arceus-Water to check them better. Judgment gives Arceus-Water a decently powerful STAB move capable of hitting Steel- and Fire-types, chipping switch-ins, and augmenting its ability to check Ho-Oh and Arceus-Ground. Using both Judgment and Ice Beam gives Arceus-Water maximum effectiveness against all of the aforementioned threats. Fire Blast can be used to hit Mega Lucario for a potential OHKO as well as deter defensive Steel-types like Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, and Magearna from switching in.

Set Details
========

Splash Plate is required to use Arceus-Water and boosts the power of Judgment. The given Speed EVs with a Timid nature allow Arceus-Water to outspeed Jolly Mega Lucario and anything slower. The rest of the EVs aim to maximize Arceus-Water's physical bulk, allowing it to check what it needs to. Specifically, 64 Defense EVs let Arceus-Water take a +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence. An EV spread of 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe gives Arceus-Water more bulk while still outspeeding positive-natured base 90s, but it will be outsped by Mega Lucario.

Usage Tips
========

Due to its typing and bulk, Arceus-Water is able to switch into most neutral physical attacks relatively comfortably. It is a solid and consistent switch-in to common threats such as Primal Groudon, Zygarde-C, Mega Salamence, Arceus-Ground, and Ho-Oh. Arceus-Water is also useful for playing around Primal Kyogre. Arceus-Water can be brought into Primal Kyogre relatively safely if Primal Kyogre switched into Primal Groudon; Primal Groudon can then come back in due to Desolate Land overriding the already-present Primordial Sea again. Be cautious against Mega Gengar, since it can easily trap and KO Arceus-Water if it switches in healthy. If Arceus-Water lacks Judgment, it is more vulnerable to Mega Gengar, so double switching into to another Pokemon can keep Arceus-Water safe. Because Arceus-Water frequently switches into play, it will probably end up trading Toxic with another Pokemon it would try to cripple, such as both Giratina formes, Arceus-Fairy, and or opposing Arceus-Water. Once in, Arceus-Water should use Recover to maintain its health and Toxic to cripple the opposing team, though it should switch out against a predicted Steel-type switch-in in order to gain momentum. Judgment and Ice Beam should be used to chip switch-ins that are already afflicted with Toxic. Ice Beam should also be used to hit Rayquaza, Mega Salamence, Zygarde-C, and even offensive Yveltal on predicted switches. Note that although Arceus-Water can beat standard defensive Primal Groudon, it cannot defeat Swords Dance Primal Groudon without assistance. Arceus-Water should use Toxic against it, and then you should stall Primal Groudon out for a couple of turns by switching to other Pokemon until racking up enough Toxic damage to KO it. Arceus-Water is also bothered by defensive Primal Groudon that opt for Toxic; this most likely results in it trading Toxic with Primal Groudon, though this is less of a concern if you have a cleric on your team. If carrying Defog, it is best used on forced switches due to how vulnerable Arceus-Water is to setup and status. Arceus-Water can stay in on Primal Groudon, though. Arceus-Water can be used as a Will-O-Wisp absorber, as it is much better for it to get burned than hit with Toxic. Doing this allows Arceus-Water to better stop opposing Toxic users.

Team Options
========

Arceus-Water can fit on many balanced and defensive teams due to its extreme defensive utility. Celesteela is Arceus-Water's best partner, as it relieves pressure off of Arceus-Water due to it also checking Mega Salamence; this lets Arceus-Water use Defog over Ice Beam more easily. Celesteela is also able to check Double Dance Primal Groudon, which would otherwise overwhelm Arceus-Water, and it appreciates Arceus-Water's ability to check Ho-Oh. Primal Groudon can check Xerneas and Primal Kyogre and beat most Steel-types, which threaten Arceus-Water, while Arceus-Water can handle Arceus-Ground and Mega Salamence in return. Ho-Oh also checks Xerneas and Steel-types as well as benefiting from the Defog support Arceus-Water provides. A Defog user like Giratina-O or Giratina is able to free up a moveslot for Arceus-Water, allowing it to use both Ice Beam and Judgment. Giratina-O can also deal with Primal Groudon. Mega Diancie grants a second method of entry hazard removal and appreciates Arceus-Water's ability to check Arceus-Ground. A secondary Primal Groudon check such as Lugia, Zygarde-C, Giratina-O, or Mega Salamence is able to deal with Primal Groudon and thus relieve pressure off of Arceus-Water. Arceus-Water values a Steel-type like Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, Magearna, or Aegislash that is able to check Xerneas, which is threatening to Arceus-Water, (comma) They can also switch into and absorb Toxic. If Arceus-Water is running 124 Speed EVs, Aegislash can ensure Arceus-Water's your team has a reliable answer to Mega Lucario. Setup sweepers like Xerneas, Extreme Killer Arceus, Bulk Up Marshadow, Mega Lucario, and Rayquaza benefit from Arceus-Water's (AH) ability to remove hazards, switch into threats, and chip away at the opposing team with Toxic. Mega Sableye can bounce back entry hazards and status aimed at Arceus-Water while also checking Extreme Killer Arceus. Blissey is able to check most special attackers and can keep Arceus-Water healthy with Heal Bell and Wish. Arceus-Water is able to deal with physical threats to it in return.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Will-O-Wisp can be used to cripple strong physical attackers like Arceus-Ground, Marshadow, and Mega Lucario. However, Primal Groudon is immune to Will-O-Wisp, and Toxic is extremely important for Arceus-Water to beat it. Refresh clears Arceus-Water of status, particularly Toxic, but there is no room to fit it. Grass Knot 3HKOes Primal Kyogre, allowing Arceus-Water to defeat defensive Rest sets, but it is hard to fit when Judgment and Ice Beam offer far superior coverage. A Waterium Z Swords Dance set with Aqua Tail and Earthquake can 2HKO Primal Groudon and Xerneas at +2, but there are more effective Swords Dance Arceus formes, especially Extreme Killer Arceus. Arceus-Water is able to set up Calm Mind frequently because of its bulk and typing, but Arceus-Ground and Arceus-Dark are better Calm Mind Arceus formes.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Steel-types**: Steel-types like Dialga, Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, Solgaleo, Aegislash, and Celesteela are immune to Toxic, and the more defensive ones completely wall Arceus-Water. Furthermore, many of these Steel-types can cripple Arceus-Water with their own Toxic and stall it out. However, none of them barring Dialga appreciate taking Fire Blast.

**Toxic**: Toxic completely undermines Arceus-Water's defensive capabilities. Any Toxic user can cripple Arceus-Water on the switch. Blissey, Chansey, and Steel-type Toxic users are the most dangerous; Blissey and Chansey can cure Arceus-Water's Toxic with Heal Bell, while Steel-types are immune to it.

**Mega Gengar**: If Mega Gengar switches in safely, it can trap and remove Arceus-Water with powerful STAB attacks or Destiny Bond. It can do so more easily if Arceus-Water lacks Judgment. However, Mega Gengar needs to be wary of Judgment.

**Setup Sweepers**: Setup sweepers like Geomancy Xerneas, Swords Dance Primal Groudon, Calm Mind Mega Mewtwo Y, and Swords Dance and Calm Mind Arceus formes can take advantage of Arceus-Water's passivity and use it as setup fodder.

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre can switch into Arceus-Water extremely easily, as it resists both Ice Beam and Judgment. Offensive sets can 2HKO Arceus-Water with Thunder, while defensive variants can cure themselves of Toxic with Rest. Primal Kyogre needs to be careful of the rare Grass Knot, though.

**Powerful Attackers**: Very powerful attackers like Deoxys-A, offensive Primal Kyogre, Choice Specs Yveltal, and Kyurem-W can simply overpower Arceus-Water with their extremely powerful STAB moves.

**Specialized Z-Move Users**: Certain sets such as Supersonic Skystrike Dragon Dance Rayquaza and Supersonic Skystrike Landorus-T can potentially use their Z-Moves to KO Arceus-Water.

**Electric-types**: Zekrom, Tapu Koko, and Arceus-Electric can hit Arceus-Water with super effective Electric-type STAB moves, though they take a decent amount of damage if they switch into Arceus-Water's attacks.

**Grass-types**: Shaymin-S outspeeds Arceus-Water and can OHKO it with Seed Flare, but it can't switch into Ice Beam. Arceus-Grass can switch into Arceus-Water's Judgment and threaten it with its own Judgment.
 
Last edited:

frenzyplant

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[OVERVIEW]

Arceus-Water's excellent bulk combined with its pure Water typing makes it one of the best support Arceus formes for balanced and defensive teams, capable of checking top-tier threats such as Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground, Ho-Oh, Zygarde-C, Mega Lucario, and Mega Salamence. Arceus-Water's typing gives it valuable resistances to Ice-, Water-, and Fire-type moves, (remove comma) as well as giving it (optional but this is a little repetitive) no common weaknesses, letting it switch into most attacks comfortably. Due to this, Arceus-Water is one of the best Defog users and can use the move often, which grants great defensive utility to all teams. Furthermore, Arceus-Water's high Speed allows it to outspeed many common offensive Pokemon it is meant to check, and it is also able to punish the Pokemon it checks with Toxic. However, Arceus-Water is passive due to its bad punish game against (not sure what this means, could you reword or clarify? e.g. "its limited ability to punish" if that's what you mean) its common defensive answers like Steel-types, making it vulnerable to Toxic, setup, and Mega Gengar, which give the opponent momentum. Arceus-Water has four-moveslot syndrome, often having to decide which attacking moves it uses. It succumbs to specialized sets designed to beat it from Pokemon it is otherwise meant to check, such as Swords Dance Primal Groudon and Z-Move users. Arceus-Water also faces competition from Arceus-Groud Arceus-Ground and Arceus-Fairy as a defensive Arceus forme, with the former being able to check Primal Groudon more reliably and the latter being able to check Marshadow and Yveltal.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Recover
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Defog / Ice Beam
move 4: Ice Beam / Judgment
item: Splash Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Recover is necessary in order to keep Arceus-Water healthy throughout the match and enable it to consistently check the Pokemon that it needs to. Toxic allows Arceus-Water to deal with Primal Groudon and cripple Pokemon like Ho-Oh, Arceus-Fairy, and Lugia. Defog provides important entry hazard removal; Arceus-Water's typing and bulk allow it to use Defog often and thus make it one of the best users of the move. However, if entry hazard removal is present on your team already, Arceus-Water can forgo Defog. Ice Beam OHKOes Mega Salamence and Rayquaza, dents Zygarde-C, and chips away and at (is this what you mean?) Primal Groudon, allowing Arceus-Water to check them better. Judgment gives Arceus-Water a decently powerful STAB move, (comma; don't think these should be restrictive, as any STAB move could do the first two) capable of hitting Steel- and Fire-types, chipping doing chip damage to switch-ins, and augmenting its ability to check Ho-Oh and Arceus-Ground. Using both Judgment and Ice Beam gives Arceus-Water maximum effectiveness against all of the aforementioned threats. Fire Blast can be used to hit Mega Lucario for a potential OHKO as well as deter defensive Steel-types like Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, and Magearna from switching in.

Set Details
========

Splash Plate is required to use Arceus-Water and boosts the power of Judgment. The given Speed EVs with a Timid nature allow Arceus-Water to outspeed Jolly Mega Lucario and anything slower. The rest of the EVs aim to maximize Arceus-Water's physical bulk, allowing it to check what it needs to. Specifically, 64 Defense EVs let Arceus-Water take a +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence. An EV spread of 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe gives Arceus-Water more bulk while still outspeeding positive-natured base 90s, but it will be outsped by (all Mega Lucario or just Jolly Mega Lucario?) Mega Lucario.

Usage Tips
========

(this is a quite long paragraph, consider splitting it up)
Due to its typing and bulk, Arceus-Water is able to switch into most neutral physical attacks relatively comfortably. It is a solid and consistent switch-in to common threats such as Primal Groudon, Zygarde-C, Mega Salamence, Arceus-Ground, and Ho-Oh. Arceus-Water is also useful for playing around Primal Kyogre. Arceus-Water can be brought into Primal Kyogre relatively safely if Primal Kyogre switched into Primal Groudon; Primal Groudon can then come back in due to Desolate Land overriding Primordial Sea again. Be cautious against Mega Gengar, since it can easily trap and KO Arceus-Water if it switches in healthy. If Arceus-Water lacks Judgment, it is more vulnerable to Mega Gengar, so (consider a different word: not sure how this relationship is causal, as even if Arceus-Water has Judgment, it is still vulnerable to Mega Gengar, right?) double switching to another Pokemon can keep Arceus-Water safe. Because Arceus-Water frequently switches into play, it will probably end up trading Toxic with another Pokemon it would try to cripple, such as both either Giratina formes, forme, Arceus-Fairy, or opposing Arceus-Water. (maybe move this sentence to after the next, which is more general and details the generals of using Toxic) Once in, Arceus-Water should use Recover to maintain its health and Toxic to cripple the opposing team, though it should switch out against a predicted Steel-type switch-in in order to gain momentum. Judgment and Ice Beam should be used to chip switch-ins that are already afflicted with Toxic. Ice Beam should also be used to hit Rayquaza, Mega Salamence, Zygarde-C, and even offensive Yveltal on predicted switches. Note that although Arceus-Water can beat standard defensive Primal Groudon, it cannot defeat Swords Dance Primal Groudon without assistance. Arceus-Water should use Toxic against it, and then you should stall Primal Groudon out for a couple of turns by switching to other Pokemon until racking you rack up enough Toxic damage to KO it. Arceus-Water is also bothered by defensive Primal Groudon that opt for Toxic; this most likely results in it trading Toxic with Primal Groudon, though this is less of a concern if you have a cleric on your team. If Arceus-Water is carrying Defog, (dangling participle) it is best used on forced switches due to how vulnerable Arceus-Water is to setup and status. Arceus-Water can stay in on Primal Groudon, though. (not sure how this follows from the point about Defog, was this supposed to be a sentence earlier?) Arceus-Water can be used as a Will-O-Wisp absorber, as it is much better for it to get burned than hit with Toxic. Doing this allows Arceus-Water to better stop opposing Toxic users.

Team Options
========

Arceus-Water can fit on many balanced and defensive teams due to its extreme defensive utility. Celesteela is Arceus-Water's best partner, as it relieves pressure off of Arceus-Water (use either "takes pressure off (of) Arceus-Water" or "relieves Arceus-Water of pressure") due to it also checking Mega Salamence; this lets Arceus-Water use Defog over Ice Beam more easily. Celesteela is also able to check Double Dance Primal Groudon, which would otherwise overwhelm Arceus-Water, and it appreciates Arceus-Water's ability to check Ho-Oh. Primal Groudon can check Xerneas and Primal Kyogre and beat most Steel-types, which threaten Arceus-Water, while Arceus-Water can handle Arceus-Ground and Mega Salamence in return. Ho-Oh also checks Xerneas and Steel-types as well as benefiting from the Defog support Arceus-Water provides. A Defog user like Giratina-O or Giratina is able to free up a moveslot for Arceus-Water, allowing it to use both Ice Beam and Judgment. Giratina-O can also deal with Primal Groudon. Mega Diancie grants a second method of entry hazard removal and appreciates Arceus-Water's ability to check Arceus-Ground. A secondary Primal Groudon check such as Lugia, Zygarde-C, Giratina-O, or Mega Salamence is able to deal with Primal Groudon and thus (consider removing this; it's implied by the fact that the Pokemon in question is described as a Primal Groudon check) relieve pressure off Arceus-Water. (similarly to above, either "take pressure off Arceus-Water." or "relieve Arceus-Water of pressure.") Arceus-Water values a Steel-type like Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, Magearna, or Aegislash that is able to check Xerneas, which is threatening to Arceus-Water, and absorb Toxic. If Arceus-Water is running 124 Speed EVs, Aegislash can ensure your team has a reliable answer to Mega Lucario. Setup sweepers like Xerneas, Extreme Killer Arceus, Bulk Up Marshadow, Mega Lucario, and Rayquaza benefit from Arceus-Water's ability to remove hazards, switch into threats, and chip away at the opposing team with Toxic. Mega Sableye can bounce back entry hazards and status aimed at Arceus-Water while also checking Extreme Killer Arceus. Blissey is able to check most special attackers and can keep Arceus-Water healthy with Heal Bell and Wish. Arceus-Water is able to deal with physical threats to it in return.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Will-O-Wisp can be used to cripple strong physical attackers like Arceus-Ground, Marshadow, and Mega Lucario. However, Primal Groudon is immune to Will-O-Wisp, and Toxic is extremely important for Arceus-Water to beat it. Refresh clears Arceus-Water of status, particularly Toxic, but there is no room to fit it. Grass Knot 3HKOes Primal Kyogre, allowing Arceus-Water to defeat defensive Rest sets, but it is hard to fit when Judgment and Ice Beam offer far superior coverage. A Waterium Z + Swords Dance set with Aqua Tail and Earthquake can 2HKO Primal Groudon and Xerneas at +2, but there are more effective Swords Dance Arceus formes, especially Extreme Killer Arceus. Arceus-Water is able to set up Calm Mind frequently because of its bulk and typing, but Arceus-Ground and Arceus-Dark are better Calm Mind Arceus formes.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Steel-types**: Steel-types like Dialga, Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, Solgaleo, Aegislash, and Celesteela are immune to Toxic, and the more defensive ones completely wall Arceus-Water. Furthermore, many of these Steel-types can cripple Arceus-Water with their own Toxic and stall it out. However, none of them barring Dialga appreciate taking Fire Blast.

**Toxic**: Toxic completely undermines Arceus-Water's defensive capabilities. Any Toxic user can cripple Arceus-Water on the switch. Blissey, Chansey, and Steel-type Toxic users are the most dangerous; however, opponents must be aware that Blissey and Chansey on Arceus-Water's team (is this what you mean? if so, it's not immediately clear that you're talking about Blissey and Chansey as teammates rather than as the most dangerous Toxic users to Arceus-Water) can cure Arceus-Water's Toxic with Heal Bell, while Steel-type teammates are immune to it.

**Mega Gengar**: If Mega Gengar switches in safely, it can trap and remove Arceus-Water with powerful STAB attacks or Destiny Bond. It can do so more easily if Arceus-Water lacks Judgment. However, Mega Gengar needs to be wary of Judgment.

**Setup Sweepers**: Setup sweepers like Geomancy Xerneas, Swords Dance Primal Groudon, Calm Mind Mega Mewtwo Y, and Swords Dance and Calm Mind Arceus formes can take advantage of Arceus-Water's passivity and use it as setup fodder.

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre can switch into Arceus-Water extremely easily, as it resists both Ice Beam and Judgment. Offensive sets can 2HKO Arceus-Water with Thunder, while defensive variants can cure themselves of Toxic poison with Rest. Primal Kyogre needs to be careful of the rare Grass Knot, though.

**Powerful Attackers**: Very powerful attackers like Deoxys-A, offensive Primal Kyogre, Choice Specs Yveltal, and Kyurem-W can simply overpower Arceus-Water with their extremely powerful STAB moves.

**Specialized Z-Move Users**: Certain sets such as Supersonic Skystrike Dragon Dance Rayquaza and Supersonic Skystrike Landorus-T can potentially use their Z-Moves to KO Arceus-Water.

**Electric-types**: Zekrom, Tapu Koko, and Arceus-Electric can hit Arceus-Water with super effective Electric-type STAB moves, though they take a decent amount of damage if they switch into Arceus-Water's attacks.

**Grass-types**: Shaymin-S outspeeds Arceus-Water and can OHKO it with Seed Flare, but it can't switch into Ice Beam. Arceus-Grass can switch into Arceus-Water's Judgment and threaten it with its own Judgment.
 

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