Balanced Hackmons Viability Ranking

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thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
My 2 cents on this semantics debate:
Put it in unranked and give a breif description. IMO the point of the viability ranking thread is to help the new player know what to prepare for and what to use. I would never recommend someone use a Blissey. If Chansey has eviolite, it is better than Lefties Blissey, I think we all agree on that. But what about the bluff? Chansey is BETTER at bluffing.
Let's say my opponent bring in a Blissey on my, say, willowispwillowisp. If I don't see lefties, I know it is scarf or plate and I acout for which one. If he brings in a Chansey, I scout damage to see if it is eviolite or punch. I will be dumbfounded when it turns out to have a plate. This psychological advantage comes at the low, low price of 1.4% of your bulk. I'd take this bargain. There is NEVER a situation where I would use Blissey, just like I would never use Munchlax or wobb or Drifblim. Unrank this piece of shit.
Viability:"the capacity to operate or be sustained" just because someone does your job better, doesn't mean suddenly you need to be fired for it.
You will be fired. If I can hire 1000000 Chanseys I will. And with no species clause you can't make this argument.
That being said I do think the thread should be renamed to Effectiveness rankings or Power rankings or something like that and definitions should be removed. Otherwise pointless discussions like this clog up the thread.
 
Blissey to Blissey-rank
I give up guys. Supporting thesecondbest in giving the fully evolved blob its own rank. Describe why it has a special status in the meta, saying that it is usable but outclassed.
I mean Blissey isn't half as bad as thesecondbest says (at least in my opinion) but we are stuck in an unnecessary discussion. Blissey could be ranked as high as A or as low as D- depending on the point of view, posted about this already.
 
Ok, Piccolo Daimao I think it's time to ban blissey as a discussable topic, it's been almost this entire thread and is annoying. Rank it in A, B-/C+, Blissey rank like Ubers had a Chansey rank - it doesn't matter. Just mark it as off limits, and let's all move on with semantics and useless debates.
Agree with this and...

Mega Charizard X to D-rank
Mega Charizard X has the potential to run a unique gimmick. Its set is a special attacking one w/ set-up move and Fire/Grass/Ground coverage, Simple ability. By holding a Charizardite Y this set can lure Chansey in, Mega Evolve, and attempt a sweep. I'm not pretending it's a good mon (fun though) just at D-rank level (barely viable). I've seen No Guard Inferno sets that are a nightmare to switch into by fear of a burn (at least for offensive teams) but that can be said of pretty much every No Guard set anyway.
Yes I got totally rekt by the Simple set
 
I moved Blissey to Blissey rank with a note about why it's outclassed but still very good and meta-defining. Right now, I'm still contemplating what to do with Shedinja (leaning towards keeping it where it is). Does anyone have anything to say about highlighter's proposal to move Audino up?
Also, I see no reason not to move Char-X up to D-, anyone else have feedback about that?
 
Agree with this and...

Mega Charizard X to D-rank
Mega Charizard X has the potential to run a unique gimmick. Its set is a special attacking one w/ set-up move and Fire/Grass/Ground coverage, Simple ability. By holding a Charizardite Y this set can lure Chansey in, Mega Evolve, and attempt a sweep. I'm not pretending it's a good mon (fun though) just at D-rank level (barely viable). I've seen No Guard Inferno sets that are a nightmare to switch into by fear of a burn (at least for offensive teams) but that can be said of pretty much every No Guard set anyway.
Yes I got totally rekt by the Simple set
You cannot mega-evolve Pokemon that are already megas. Sorry.
 
I'm a little late to the Blissey rankings discussion, but i absolutely detest its current ranking. Is absolutely flies in the face of what a viablity rankings is trying to accomplish and it ignores the reasonable arguments already brought. One of the most important aspects of a debate is recognizing the difference between fact and opinion.
The main argument for placing Blissey outside of the normal rankings is because some people on this thread would never use Blissey. But if you aren't running Lucky Punch or Eviolite, there is no statistical advantage of using Chansey over Blissey. There is just some intangible "bluff factor" that basically implies your opponent is an idiot. If you send Imposter into a situation it clearly loses (like Mega Gengar) its obviously holding an item that allows it to win. An experience player will make the safe play and switch to a counter.
Not to mention if Blissey deserves a "Blissey Rank" then Rayquaza probably deserves one too. At least in the definition of "Blissey rank" right now, you can throw anything that is outclassed but still "runnable." Rayquaza is "runnable" because while it as not as powerful as it's Mega form, it still 2hkos all the same things on a basic fake speed set.
So if Blissey is really so outclassed then it should never be run over Chansey, don't fucking rank it all. If it has some niche uses, rank it in D or C. Just don't make up some arbitrary new rank then say it can't be discussed lol.

Second some nominations:

Darm-Zen C+-- Unranked

As far as i can tell, the only niche Darm-Zen has is nostalgia, it used to be a great unaware pivot/wall mon. That was back in Gen 5/ early Gen 6. In ORAS its absolutely terrible and unusable as far as i am concerned. It can't handle any of the common Contrary sets or Protean set up sets. Mega Rayquaza, and Latios both can 2hko with Draco Meteor. Spooky Plate Dance Protean beats its for obvious reasons. It can stop Mega Mewtwo contrary sets, but imo its not worth running an Unaware that can only stop a limited number of common set up sets. Its also worth mentioning Unaware's viability is at an all time low in ORAS. I don't really expect the council to agree with me, but at least get it out of C+ rank and into D rank.

Regirock B +---> C+

Its a popular myth that Regirock is a decent -ate counter. The truth is, its just a Mega Ray counter. Its less vunerable to Mega Ray's coverage then Registeel is, making it a better option for just walling Ray, but it can't even come close to walling Diancie.

252 SpA Pixilate Mega Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regirock: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO

No boosting item or nature, and its a 2hko. So what else does the Rock wall besides Mega Ray? Its an unreliable counter to Mega Tyranitar, because while Tyranitar can't 2hko on switch, Shift Gear sets can boost, burn with Sacred Fire, and then beat down with Diamond Storm while tanking Drain Punches. Its a risky play for the Ttar player, and it probably leaves Ttar at low HP, but it can win. The only other things it walls on this VR are other birds. Plus its really fucking passive I agree it can be good, but it really only has a niche, which is walling flying types and nothing else.


Mega Tyranitar

B ---> A

Ttar is a fucking boss in the current meta. It's Shift Gear sets have a grand total of zero switch ins in the A and above Rank. Its easily capable of sweeping even high level teams. It is imposter proof. It's defensive sets can wall Mega Rayquaza. I could write more but i'm getting tired cause its late.
 
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Second some nominations:

Darm-Zen C+-- Unranked

As far as i can tell, the only niche Darm-Zen has is nostalgia, it used to be a great unaware pivot/wall mon. That was back in Gen 5/ early Gen 6. In ORAS its absolutely terrible and unusable as far as i am concerned. It can't handle any of the common Contrary sets or Protean set up sets. Mega Rayquaza, and Latios both can 2hko with Draco Meteor. Spooky Plate Dance Protean beats its for obvious reasons. It can stop Mega Mewtwo contrary sets, but imo its not worth running an Unaware that can only stop a limited number of common set up sets. Its also worth mentioning Unaware's viability is at an all time low in ORAS. I don't really expect the council to agree with me, but at least get it out of C+ rank and into D rank.
I always wondered what Darmanitan does in the current meta, and I agree it is garbage right now. Unrank it.
Regirock B +---> C+

Its a popular myth that Regirock is a decent -ate counter. The truth is, its just a Mega Ray counter. Its less vunerable to Mega Ray's coverage then Registeel is, making it a better option for just walling Ray, but it can't even come close to walling Diancie.

252 SpA Pixilate Mega Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regirock: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO

No boosting item or nature, and its a 2hko. So what else does the Rock wall besides Mega Ray? Its an unreliable counter to Mega Tyranitar, because while Tyranitar can't 2hko on switch, Shift Gear sets can boost, burn with Sacred Fire, and then beat down with Diamond Storm while tanking Drain Punches. Its a risky play for the Ttar player, and it probably leaves Ttar at low HP, but it can win. The only other things it walls on this VR are other birds. Plus its really fucking passive I agree it can be good, but it really only has a niche, which is walling flying types and nothing else.
Yes it should go down, C+ looks fine, as it is outclassed by Registeel.
Mega Tyranitar

B ---> A

Ttar is a fucking boss in the current meta. It's Shift Gear sets have a grand total of zero switch ins in the A and above Rank. Its easily capable of sweeping even high level teams. It is imposter proof. It's defensive sets can wall Mega Rayquaza. I could write more but i'm getting tired cause its late.
Agree. Up to at least A- imo.
 
Mega Tyranitar

B ---> A

Ttar is a fucking boss in the current meta. It's Shift Gear sets have a grand total of zero switch ins in the A and above Rank. Its easily capable of sweeping even high level teams. It is imposter proof. It's defensive sets can wall Mega Rayquaza. I could write more but i'm getting tired cause its late.
Apologies for my ignorance since i haven't played BH in a while, but why is MegaTar imposter-proof? What's the set?
 
Apologies for my ignorance since i haven't played BH in a while, but why is MegaTar imposter-proof? What's the set?
The most common ability Mega Tyranitar runs is Poison Heal, either offensive or defensive sets. An offensive set would run Shift Gear and Sacred Fire for Imposter-proof, defensive sets run a status move, like Leech Seed, Spore or WoW.
 
Blissey does have a niche over Chansey in that it is notably stronger - most notably, in Special Attack - if it fails to Imposter something. For instance, this set is something Blissey can actually run Chansey can't:

Blissey @ Leftovers
252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 HP
Ability: Fur Coat
Modest Nature
-Quiver Dance
-Recover / clones
-Boomburst / Techno Blast
-Light of Ruin / Earth Power / Magma Storm

Imposterproof as Boomburst is a 6HKO. Light of Ruin wrecks Dragons (if you hate recoil, you can use Moonblast), Earth Power is for steels and Mega Diancie and Magma Storm caps Shedinja.
 
My opinion on Shedinja is that it should drop. Shedinja is a great Pokémon in the ORAS BH metagame, but it needs an ENTIRE team build around it, it definitely wants some team support because it is OHKOed by pretty much any residual damage. B+ imo, it is still a great mon you need to prepare for.
 
The most common ability Mega Tyranitar runs is Poison Heal, either offensive or defensive sets. An offensive set would run Shift Gear and Sacred Fire for Imposter-proof, defensive sets run a status move, like Leech Seed, Spore or WoW.
Just a semantics thing, but those aren't always Imposter-proof sets. An Imposter-proof set means the Imposter cannot harm the user and the user can either cleanly defeat the Imposter or sit in front of it with no danger. Examples would be most Gengars or my old Quick Feet Skymin set for the former or Ground/Electric coverage Lando-T for the latter. Imposter-resistant sets are ones that either wall themselves effortlessly or can defeat Imposters reliably with some harm to themselves. Imposters might also be able to compromise their effectiveness against other Pokemon after the Imposter is dealt with and, in some cases, usually where the user is on low HP, the Imposter may have a chance to defeat it. Resistant sets include most Poison Heal sets (Leech Seed variants especially, despite its anti-Imposter effectiveness), most passive walls, -ates using Frustration, Judgement-sweeping Steel types, Grass/Fire/Ground coverage ZardX megavolving to Y, and many more.

But in Ttar's case, offensive sets may not be able to reliably get the burn with Sacred Fire, which can put them in danger of being KOed or significantly hurt by the Imposter. Defensive sets may or may not qualify as being proof depending on if they're running seeds or any offensive moves that do more damage than they can recover per turn.


Back on topic, I can see Zard-X rising to Dish. Reshiram is better in most cases, but it does have the megalution gimmick and it also does hit harder physically.

And also, I agree with Kingslayer on the Blissey rank for reasons he outlined.
 
Just a semantics thing, but those aren't always Imposter-proof sets. An Imposter-proof set means the Imposter cannot harm the user and the user can either cleanly defeat the Imposter or sit in front of it with no danger. Examples would be most Gengars or my old Quick Feet Skymin set for the former or Ground/Electric coverage Lando-T for the latter. Imposter-resistant sets are ones that either wall themselves effortlessly or can defeat Imposters reliably with some harm to themselves. Imposters might also be able to compromise their effectiveness against other Pokemon after the Imposter is dealt with and, in some cases, usually where the user is on low HP, the Imposter may have a chance to defeat it. Resistant sets include most Poison Heal sets (Leech Seed variants especially, despite its anti-Imposter effectiveness), most passive walls, -ates using Frustration, Judgement-sweeping Steel types, Grass/Fire/Ground coverage ZardX megavolving to Y, and many more.

But in Ttar's case, offensive sets may not be able to reliably get the burn with Sacred Fire, which can put them in danger of being KOed or significantly hurt by the Imposter. Defensive sets may or may not qualify as being proof depending on if they're running seeds or any offensive moves that do more damage than they can recover per turn.


Back on topic, I can see Zard-X rising to Dish. Reshiram is better in most cases, but it does have the megalution gimmick and it also does hit harder physically.

And also, I agree with Kingslayer on the Blissey rank for reasons he outlined.
Imposter proof was probably the wrong word choice, TTar is Imposter resistant, since it can 1v1 Imposter and win but its not 100% reliable.

My opinion on Shedinja is that it should drop. Shedinja is a great Pokémon in the ORAS BH metagame, but it needs an ENTIRE team build around it, it definitely wants some team support because it is OHKOed by pretty much any residual damage. B+ imo, it is still a great mon you need to prepare for.
I disagree with Shed dropping, it doesn't require the entire team to support it. You simply need Defog at minimum and your team can effectively support Sheddy. And defog isn't unreasonable or difficult to splash. You can even run it on a random offensive mon if you want to. Shed is perfect where it is at, while anything can be a Shed counter, not everything will be a Shed counter. There will be sets that can be hard walled by Shed, and you more or less instantly win as soon as you get rid of all potential counter sets since a Shed can't be worn down. A- is perfectly fine

Move Audino up, potential Gengar and Ttar switch ins are difficult to come by, and Audino can do it with one set, which is reason enough alone for an uptick.
 
Well maybe I didn't say it with the right words, what I was trying to say is that Shedinja cannot be simply slapped on a team hoping it'll work and it'll wall half of the meta. It needs support to some degree, with only Defog is not enough. LumCycle can protect Shedinja from status but it's not 100% reliable (your Lum Berry can be Knocked Off for example). You need a good hazard control, and despite having a Defogger hazards on your side means Shedinja can't come in at all until the Defogger does and takes out hazards, allowing the opponent to play a bit more recklessly while your Defogger comes in, and of course predict the switch and bop your Defogger, which means a third of your team is gone. You need two Defoggers for this reason or a Defogger and Magic Bounce. Usually, your team should be built around Shedinja to work at 100%, which doesn't mean the entire team needs to support it, but it's not splashable at all. Shedinja is predictable, from the team preview you know that's a Sturdinja, other sets such as Magic Guard are just borderline unviable gimmicks and only work for the surprise factor. A cleric is also appreciated to get rid of status, LumCycle is somewhat reliable but can be stalled, you can only make 16 Lums, WoW's PP for example is 24. Against stall, Shedinja will find a hard time because most of the opposing team will OHKO it with stuff like Curse, Leech Seed or Will-O-Wisp, the two first cannot be avoided with LumCycle. You need something to take out Mold Breakers such as Mega Gengar or even Mega Tyranitar that can Pursuit trap it and OHKO. If you pack LumCycle, sandstorm (and Hail but who uses Hail?) will beat you easily so you need something to deal with that, assuming one Defogger only as a support, you'll be 5vs6 during 5 or 8 turns. But then if you slap Safety Goggles for the sandstorm status will take out Shedinja, to survive you need a cleric and Baton Pass before the end of the turn in which Shedinja was statused.
Definitely Shedinja needs more than a Defogger to work well. I'm not saying it' a bad mon. It's great and walls too much in the metagame, is definitely a threat you need to prepare for. It just needs support.
 
Charizard Mega-X is pretty legit with the mega evolution shenigans, but it still has lot to catch up on in the current meta, so mention is definatly welcome

I would honestly add a "wildcard" tier of sort for the things like Blissey on the tiering;
"Mon's that can be potentially good or even excellent in the metagame but share traits such as ability or moves with other already powerful tiered pokemons in the balanced hackmons metagame. Pokemon in this tier are effective but also debatable due of their bretheren in other tier of viability that can do the same job, yet, cannot be identical in all sides due of minimal changes such as item, stat or other factors which make the arguments on whenver the said mon is outclassed or not extremely volativem thus making the use of the mons in this tier up to user preference"
 
Xerneas to B+ rank
I started running SubQD to counter my own Dialga, and I found it was a very underrated threat that can tear appart a lot of teams. Substitute is nice allowing not only to take Dialga's Doom Desire comfortably, but also priority from -ates for example. This way Xerneas can tank Mega Ray's powerful priority with ease while outspeeding at +1 and OHKOing it with Moonblast. This is the exact set:
Xerneas @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Substitute
- Earth Power
- Quiver Dance
Magnet Pull is there to trap an Impostered Dialga, because otherwise I think there are better abilities out there (Poison Heal comes to mind). Moonblast is actually very powerful after a boost, breaking even Giratina iirc. Earth Power was added to hit Dialga super-effectively but it is valuable coverage as well.
It's surprising power, boosted Speed and Substitute to take priority attacks, as well as being unprepared for, makes it very dangerous if it gets going. Note that the EVs spread still has to be optimized, I'm looking for important Speed benchmarks to outspeed while making 101HP Subs (not that that's really important in BH but w/e).
Xerneas should be paired with something like Mega Gengar to remove Shedinja before attempting to sweep (the Magnet Pull variant in particular finds it very easy to set up on Impostered Dialga).
 
I'm a little late to the Blissey rankings discussion, but i absolutely detest its current ranking. Is absolutely flies in the face of what a viablity rankings is trying to accomplish and it ignores the reasonable arguments already brought. One of the most important aspects of a debate is recognizing the difference between fact and opinion.
The main argument for placing Blissey outside of the normal rankings is because some people on this thread would never use Blissey. But if you aren't running Lucky Punch or Eviolite, there is no statistical advantage of using Chansey over Blissey. There is just some intangible "bluff factor" that basically implies your opponent is an idiot. If you send Imposter into a situation it clearly loses (like Mega Gengar) its obviously holding an item that allows it to win. An experience player will make the safe play and switch to a counter.
I think this is the main point of disagreement between us here. Lcass was saying that even though Blissey is directly outclassed, it is still, by definition, viable and it does shape the meta. I agree with this completely. Now, let me explain why Blissey is directly outclassed by Chansey. Blissey's 5 HP does not allow it to live anything that Chansey would die to (assuming no Eviolite). And, people do assume that Chansey isn't going to be holding a Choice Scarf, Safety Goggles, a Toxic Orb, or a plate. Whereas if someone is battling someone good, and they see a Blissey, they know right away that there must be some reason why they're not running Chansey, and the only reason that might be is to hold a different item. I know that I play differently against Blissey vs Chansey because generally speaking they hold different items. There is literally no advantage to running Blissey (unless you have Leftovers, as that cannot be bluffed at all) over Chansey, and Chansey has the POTENTIAL benefit of bluffing Eviolite/Lucky Punch while in reality running something else.

Also, responding to your Mega Gengar example, if I have a Gengar-Mega that got a Smash up and I am currently sweeping, I would not be surprised if my opponent brought in Chansey. If they have no other way of dealing with Gengar, then they will lose eventually, and in order for them to lose they would have to bring in every one of their Pokemon. Are you really telling me that if you were sweeping your opponent and they brought in their Imposter, you would play it safe and switch out? (note: I don't think this argument is very clear, so please tell me if you don't understand it and I will attempt to clarify. I'm just having trouble articulating what I mean well.)
Not to mention if Blissey deserves a "Blissey Rank" then Rayquaza probably deserves one too. At least in the definition of "Blissey rank" right now, you can throw anything that is outclassed but still "runnable." Rayquaza is "runnable" because while it as not as powerful as it's Mega form, it still 2hkos all the same things on a basic fake speed set.
The difference between Mega Ray/Ray and Chansey/Blissey is that Blissey is VERY metagame defining, just like Chansey. Rayquaza is not. There's a reason that before ORAS, no one ran Aerilate Ray. There is a much bigger difference between Mega Ray and Ray than there is between Chansey and Blissey.
So if Blissey is really so outclassed then it should never be run over Chansey, don't fucking rank it all. If it has some niche uses, rank it in D or C.
As I said above, I agree with Lcass that Blissey, strictly speaking, is viable in the tier. It is almost as meta-defining as Chansey, so D or C seems too low. Blissey, along with most Imposters, is very good in the tier, but I was arguing that it is directly outclassed so it does not deserve S or A. Thus, I put it in a new rank to explain that it is very good but directly outclassed.
Just don't make up some arbitrary new rank then say it can't be discussed lol.
Please show me where I (or any council member) said that you could no longer discuss Blissey. I just removed it from the "current discussions" list because I had made the change and no one had responded to the thread for a couple days about Blissey.
Second some nominations:

Darm-Zen C+-- Unranked

As far as i can tell, the only niche Darm-Zen has is nostalgia, it used to be a great unaware pivot/wall mon. That was back in Gen 5/ early Gen 6. In ORAS its absolutely terrible and unusable as far as i am concerned. It can't handle any of the common Contrary sets or Protean set up sets. Mega Rayquaza, and Latios both can 2hko with Draco Meteor. Spooky Plate Dance Protean beats its for obvious reasons. It can stop Mega Mewtwo contrary sets, but imo its not worth running an Unaware that can only stop a limited number of common set up sets. Its also worth mentioning Unaware's viability is at an all time low in ORAS. I don't really expect the council to agree with me, but at least get it out of C+ rank and into D rank.
Well I can't think of any viable uses for Darm-Z anymore, so I agree with you. I'll let others discuss it a bit before I make the change though.
Regirock B +---> C+

Its a popular myth that Regirock is a decent -ate counter. The truth is, its just a Mega Ray counter. Its less vunerable to Mega Ray's coverage then Registeel is, making it a better option for just walling Ray, but it can't even come close to walling Diancie.

252 SpA Pixilate Mega Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regirock: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO

No boosting item or nature, and its a 2hko. So what else does the Rock wall besides Mega Ray? Its an unreliable counter to Mega Tyranitar, because while Tyranitar can't 2hko on switch, Shift Gear sets can boost, burn with Sacred Fire, and then beat down with Diamond Storm while tanking Drain Punches. Its a risky play for the Ttar player, and it probably leaves Ttar at low HP, but it can win. The only other things it walls on this VR are other birds. Plus its really fucking passive I agree it can be good, but it really only has a niche, which is walling flying types and nothing else.
I agree that Regirock is not an -ate wall in general, but it is a fairly decent Mega Ray wall, and considering that is the #1 by usage Pokemon and a very strong revenge killer and sweeper, I think that C+ is too low. I think it deserves B or B- or so because it doesn't beat every Mega Ray (Low Kick on the switch, Sacred Fire?) but it beats a large number of them.

Mega Tyranitar

B ---> A

Ttar is a fucking boss in the current meta. It's Shift Gear sets have a grand total of zero switch ins in the A and above Rank. Its easily capable of sweeping even high level teams. It is imposter proof. It's defensive sets can wall Mega Rayquaza. I could write more but i'm getting tired cause its late.
I agree with this. I personally think that any setup sweepers that are Imposter resistant and beat Mega Ray are very good in the tier, as those are the main answers to setup sweepers.

LightningLord2 while that set is definitely more effective on Bliss rather than Chans, it's also not very effective in general. Along with the Final Gambit set, this is not good enough to justify an increase in rank or anything.

General note, I no longer think Shedinja should drop. I've read arguments on both sides and I think it's still a very very good Pokemon in the meta, considering it often sweeps when your opponent runs out of Ghosts and Helmets and can pivot very easily. Defog is basically on every team, and thus does not require much support.

I would honestly add a "wildcard" tier of sort for the things like Blissey on the tiering;
"Mon's that can be potentially good or even excellent in the metagame but share traits such as ability or moves with other already powerful tiered pokemons in the balanced hackmons metagame. Pokemon in this tier are effective but also debatable due of their bretheren in other tier of viability that can do the same job, yet, cannot be identical in all sides due of minimal changes such as item, stat or other factors which make the arguments on whenver the said mon is outclassed or not extremely volativem thus making the use of the mons in this tier up to user preference"
I really like this idea, and I might change Blissey rank to this. I just want to see what other people have to say about it.

Xerneas to B+ rank
I started running SubQD to counter my own Dialga, and I found it was a very underrated threat that can tear appart a lot of teams. Substitute is nice allowing not only to take Dialga's Doom Desire comfortably, but also priority from -ates for example. This way Xerneas can tank Mega Ray's powerful priority with ease while outspeeding at +1 and OHKOing it with Moonblast. This is the exact set:
Xerneas @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Substitute
- Earth Power
- Quiver Dance
Magnet Pull is there to trap an Impostered Dialga, because otherwise I think there are better abilities out there (Poison Heal comes to mind). Moonblast is actually very powerful after a boost, breaking even Giratina iirc. Earth Power was added to hit Dialga super-effectively but it is valuable coverage as well.
It's surprising power, boosted Speed and Substitute to take priority attacks, as well as being unprepared for, makes it very dangerous if it gets going. Note that the EVs spread still has to be optimized, I'm looking for important Speed benchmarks to outspeed while making 101HP Subs (not that that's really important in BH but w/e).
Xerneas should be paired with something like Mega Gengar to remove Shedinja before attempting to sweep (the Magnet Pull variant in particular finds it very easy to set up on Impostered Dialga).
I'm really not sure about this. This set in particular is very niche (it is mainly for trapping and KOing Imposters that transformed into one particular Pokemon), and while it does a terrific job of that, it struggles to find setup opportunities otherwise. Its Poison Heal set is better for general use, but that one has issues of revenge killing opportunities as it's not as bulky as other effective PH users.

Sorry for the huge wall of text.
 
Xerneas to B+ rank
I started running SubQD to counter my own Dialga, and I found it was a very underrated threat that can tear appart a lot of teams. Substitute is nice allowing not only to take Dialga's Doom Desire comfortably, but also priority from -ates for example. This way Xerneas can tank Mega Ray's powerful priority with ease while outspeeding at +1 and OHKOing it with Moonblast. This is the exact set:
Xerneas @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Substitute
- Earth Power
- Quiver Dance
Magnet Pull is there to trap an Impostered Dialga, because otherwise I think there are better abilities out there (Poison Heal comes to mind). Moonblast is actually very powerful after a boost, breaking even Giratina iirc. Earth Power was added to hit Dialga super-effectively but it is valuable coverage as well.
It's surprising power, boosted Speed and Substitute to take priority attacks, as well as being unprepared for, makes it very dangerous if it gets going. Note that the EVs spread still has to be optimized, I'm looking for important Speed benchmarks to outspeed while making 101HP Subs (not that that's really important in BH but w/e).
Xerneas should be paired with something like Mega Gengar to remove Shedinja before attempting to sweep (the Magnet Pull variant in particular finds it very easy to set up on Impostered Dialga).
This set is easily OHKOed by Mega Ray's Fake out- Espeed. Xerneas is already very high at B rank, as it really only has niche sets like this one. Not to mention Diancie debatably does this set much better, and resists Ray. It also has a "bluff" factor, where most opponents will anticipate Diance being Pixliate.
 
For some reason, I never used it to set up on Dialga as no one impostered it (I think they knew that was a trap). For some other reason I always have a Sub when Mega Ray comes in, his attack breaks the Sub while I OHKO back.
I use Magnet Pull to trap Dialga and set up on it (realistically that never happened) but I'm sure there are better abilities for the set if you don't have a Dialga to counter: Poison Heal for more recovery and thus more Subs, Soundproof to beat Mega Ray with a Sub but no QD boosts needed, probably more.
Anyway I understand why you don't want to place it that high.

EDIT:
"Shedinja's niche isn't hampered by many playstyles or team setups, so it is able to find a place on most teams. However, Shedinja isn't something that can be thrown on a team for an instant win; if you don't want Shedinja fainting very early, a large part of your team needs to be built around it or at least optimized for use with it."

This is Shedinja's BH analysis. It states a large part of the team should be built around it.

"Entry hazard removal is mandatory. Defog is the most reliable method, although Rapid Spin can be run if you're looking to only remove hazards from your own side of the field, though it can be blocked by the many Ghost-types in Balanced Hackmons."

We all agree here.

"Status curing is also very important, especially if you run Safety Goggles. Not only do the moves Aromatherapy and Heal Bell allow Shedinja to switch in after it's been inflicted with a status, but they also cure other members of your team. These moves can usually fit nicely into the moveset of a Pokemon that uses Defog, particularly ones with the Prankster or Magic Bounce abilities."

Shedinja also needs cleric support.

"To reduce risk, it's a good idea to have an Imposter teammate to scout the opponent's movesets before bringing Shedinja in on them if possible. Chansey is the best choice."

Shedinja needs scouting too, but hell Chansey is in every team anyway.

"Scouting can also be achieved by using VoltTurn strategies to determine the movesets of the opponent's team. The use of defensive Pokemon with Regenerator alongside Shedinja nullifies residual damage from Leech Seed and partial trapping that gets passed by Baton Pass, assuming they switch out afterwards, as well as providing an opportunity for these VoltTurn strategies. Pokemon such as Mega Slowbro, Regirock, and Registeel are often effective users of Regenerator."

It is a good idea to have somebody in the team that can absorb residual damage passed by Baton Pass.

In short Shedinja needs way more than Defog, most of the team needs to be built around it. It needs a bit more support to be at full potential (B-rank description).
 
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tysequaine

80% sexy, 20% disgusting
While I do agree that Shedinja does require a bit more than Defog to reach its full potential, Defog is the only mandatory support it needs; the rest is just cream that allows it to be more versatile. Furthermore, I believe that it warrants a bit of special consideration due to its 'full potential' outshining anything the B-rank has to offer. Any other mon in B-rank can be worn down, even after their typical checks and counters have been removed. Shedinja doesn't have that problem, becoming a literally unbreakable wall if its checks and counters have been removed from the opponent's team.

I think that if its full potential wasn't so devastating, it would definitely sit at B+ or lower, but at its best, Shedinja becomes one of the most reliable wincons there is. Keep it at A- Rank.
 

OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life

I think this thing should be ranked. Here is why: for starters it has a well above average 145 base SpA, it has enough speed to run modest and still out speed base 150 after one QD with a few Evs left over to stick somewhere else, Stab Oblivion Wing is a beautiful thing, it has a nice offensive typing that is immune to ground and resists flying/fighting/steel/grass, and it can sweep with just QD/OW alone so it has two extra move slots for whatever. Its a cool mon and can clean easily once atespeed, imposter chansey, and shedinja are removed. I think C would be a good place since it Is outclassed, but not so much that it isn't viable.
 
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InfernapeTropius11

get on my level

I think this thing should be ranked. Here is why: for starters it has a well above average 145 base SpA, it has enough speed to run modest and still out speed base 150 after one QD with a few Evs left over to stick somewhere else, Stab Oblivion Wing is a beautiful thing, it has a nice offensive typing that is immune to ground and resists flying/fighting/steel/grass, and it can sweep with just QD/OW alone so it has two extra move slots for whatever. Its a cool mon and can clean easily once atespeed, imposter chansey, and shedinja are removed. I think C would be a good place since it Is outclassed, but not so much that it isn't viable.
I disagree. 145 SpA is nice, but MM2Y and MegaRay both have more SpA, more Speed, and more bulk. MegaRay has STAB Oblivion Wing as well, and while they may not have its Electric typing, they can both run Protean alongside King's Shield to defeat -atespeeders. Not to mention, it doesn't even take on Aerilate MegaRay very well, having a 25% chance to die to Sky Plate FakeSpeed and dies to LO FakeSpeed 75% of the time. It may be immune to most Ground-moves, but many mons choose to run Thousand Arrows as their Ground coverage, so that isn't exactly a huge thing (MegaRay is also immune to most Ground moves and is never weak to 1K Arrows). I simply think that whatever it can do, MegaRay or MM2Y can do 100% better, mainly due to overall better stats, and I think it should remain unranked. Since BH doesn't have species clause, there is next to no reason not to opt for MegaRay or MM2Y, even if you already have one on your team, and I think Thundy-T is outclassed.
 

OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
I disagree. 145 SpA is nice, but MM2Y and MegaRay both have more SpA, more Speed, and more bulk. MegaRay has STAB Oblivion Wing as well, and while they may not have its Electric typing, they can both run Protean alongside King's Shield to defeat -atespeeders. Not to mention, it doesn't even take on Aerilate MegaRay very well, having a 25% chance to die to Sky Plate FakeSpeed and dies to LO FakeSpeed 75% of the time. It may be immune to most Ground-moves, but many mons choose to run Thousand Arrows as their Ground coverage, so that isn't exactly a huge thing (MegaRay is also immune to most Ground moves and is never weak to 1K Arrows). I simply think that whatever it can do, MegaRay or MM2Y can do 100% better, mainly due to overall better stats, and I think it should remain unranked. Since BH doesn't have species clause, there is next to no reason not to opt for MegaRay or MM2Y, even if you already have one on your team, and I think Thundy-T is outclassed.
I did say it was outclassed in my post. Mega Diancie is outclassed as an ate user but that doesn't stop it from being A because it has unique qualities that set it apart from Ray/MMX. Thundy has enough to set it apart from other oblivion wing users in that while it is outclassed it is still viable and I think C is fair enough.
 
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