CAP Updates: Arghonaut Discussion (Complete)

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I'd just like to pop in real quick and talk about a few points here. The summary of my stance is I support Circle Throw, I am neutral on Storm Throw, and I support Bulldoze. I'll go ahead and give some brief reasoning below.

Storm Throw: So I went ahead and tried this out in battle, even though I could have done this using calcs, just because it personally helps me get a better idea of the damage amounts. Overall it doesn't seem like Storm Throw is particularly more powerful than Superpower against neutral targets like Mega Scizor, but the power is definitely nothing to scoff at. However, I'd like to point out that a common Arghonaut switchin, Pyroak, is not affected by the critical hit part of the move. This doesn't mean much though since it's still a 90-base power no drawbacks fighting type move. So I'm not sure either way right now.
Circle Throw: Good utility for both sets, and I think there's not really much harm involved in adding it.
Bulldoze: I like the idea of sacrificing some of Earthquake's base power in order to run the weaker Bulldoze, but with the bonus of lowering speed. The idea of utility plus generally decent coverage seems to fit the general idea of what we want Argho's roles to be.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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Alright, the consensus is very clear and thus I see no reason to go to a poll. Arghonaut will learn Circle Throw and Bulldoze and will not learn Storm Throw.

Now that competitive moves are out of the way, I am now opening gen7 full movepool submissions. In order for a moveset to be legal, it must contain all of Arghonaut's gen4 moves plus the addition of Spikes, Close Combat, Scald, Circle Throw, and Bulldoze. Flavor moves may be added but should be generally limited to those that were added as brand new moves or new TMs/Tutor moves since gen4. Do not include additional moves that have a notable competitive impact on Arghonaut; I will try to notify everyone of specific moves as they come up but as a general rule of thumb please avoid any move with more power that Argho's current moves of a certain type (i.e. Arghonaut will not learn Liquidation), any move with more than idk 60BP of a coverage type that Arghonaut doesn't currently have (i.e. Arghonaut will not learn Play Rough), and any non-attacking competitive move (i.e. Arghonaut will not learn Topsy-Turvy).

Arghonaut's gen 4 moves can be viewed at http://www.smogon.com/cap/pokemon/moves/arghonaut
 
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Level Up Moves:
H. Water Sport
H. Mud Sport
- Bubble
- Yawn
- Wrap
7. Yawn
10. Wrap
16. Arm Thrust
21. Aqua Jet
27. Mach Punch
32. Bubble Beam
36. Revenge
41. Aqua Ring
47. Body Slam
55. Submission
60. Punishment
67. Wring Out

TMs/HMs:

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 -Embargo
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Waterfall

Tutor Moves:

- Dive
- Ice Punch
- Icy Wind
- Thunder Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Snore
- Uproar
- Gunk Shot
- Iron Head
- Mud-slap
- Superpower

Egg Moves (Water 1 / Water 3):

- Bulk Up (Poliwrath/Buizel)
- Constrict (Tentacool/Omanyte/Octillery/Lileep)
- Cross Chop (Psyduck)
- Foresight (Mudkip/Squirtle/Psyduck/Lapras/Surskit)
- Haze (Wooper/Surskit/Squirtle/Poliwag/Tentacool/Krabby/Omanyte/Dratini/Remoraid/Mantine/Feebas)
- Headbutt (Slowpoke/Seel/Mantine/Bidoof/Buizel)
- Octazooka (Remoraid/Horsea)
- Recover (Corsola/Milotic/Shellos/Lileep)
- Scary Face (Totodile/Masquerain/Huntail)
- Spit Up (Pelipper/Lileep/Wooper/Spheal/Shellos)
- Stockpile (Pelipper/Lileep/Wooper/Spheal/Shellos)
- Swallow (Pelipper/Lileep/Wooper/Spheal/Shellos)

WIP. Trololol (just setting this up for later.)
 
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jas61292

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Final Submission

Overall, I didn't want to put anything too out there in Argho's movepool. It already has plenty of good flavor in it, and I don't think there were a ton of new moves that really fit super well, so for the most part I kept the changes minimal.

Ev. Revenge
- Bubble
- Yawn
- Wrap
06. Smokescreen
11. Wrap
16. Taunt
22. Arm Thrust
27. Aqua Jet
32. Mach Punch
38. Thief
43. Circle Throw
48. Foul Play

54. Submission
59. Punishment
64. Focus Punch
The level up movepool I didn't change that much. However, to fit in with the 7th gen trend, I decided to change Revenge, which is both thematic and STAB, from a normal level up move to its evolution move. In its old place I put in our new competitive move, Circle Throw, since I felt that it fit right in as a level up move.

The only other move I decided to add here was Foul Play, which I find incredibly fitting on a pirate. However, in order to avoid bloat to its level up movepool, I placed it in the spot that Thief used to be, moved Thief up to where Taunt was, moved Taunt up where the repeated Wrap was, and moved Wrap up one spot replacing the repeated Yawn.

The only other changes I made were to the move levels. Arghonaut really had absolutely no pattern to when it learned moves, which is not typical, so I decided to create one. Since the old intervals had a lot of 5 and 6 level gaps, I just made the pattern 6-5-5, and kept it throughout.

TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM47 - Low Sweep
TM48 - Round

TM52 - Focus Blast
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM63 - Embargo
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM94 - Surf
TM98 - Waterfall
TM100 - Confide
While both Bulldoze and Scald are good flavor, both are required competitive moves, so there is not really anything to explain on them. Round is a universal move so it automatically gets that as well. The only other new TM is Low Sweep, since it seems fitting with it already having Low Kick.

It should also be noted that it now has Bulk Up as a TM move. In the past this was intentionally excluded to create egg move illegalities, but such things are no longer needed, so it can now get it as a TM, as makes sense. In addition, other moves it already got in other ways, but are now TMs, such as Surf, are here.

Close Combat (Crabrawler)
Cross Chop (Psyduck)
Headbutt (Slowpoke)
Octazooka (Remoraid)
Recover (Corsola)
Scary Face (Totodile)
Spikes (Cloyster)
I didn't really think there were any new moves that were super flavorful for egg moves, so I limited my additions here to our new competitive options: Spikes and Close Combat. Fortunately, 7th gen's introduction of Crabrawler and its evo allowed me to put Close Combat here, as it is the only compatible Pokemon that learns it. This is also convenient as it can be seen as sort of an in game reason why it never had access to the move until now.

Bind (5th and 6th Gen Tutor)
Brine (4th Gen TM)
Captivate (4th Gen TM)
Dive (4th Gen Tutor / 5th and 6th Gen HM)
Drain Punch (4th Gen TM / 5th and 6th Gen Tutor)
Endure (4th Gen TM)
Gunk Shot (4th, 5th and 6th Gen Tutor)
Ice Punch (4th, 5th and 6th Gen Tutor)
Icy Wind (4th, 5th and 6th Gen Tutor)
Knock Off (4th, 5th and 6th Gen Tutor)
Low Kick (4th, 5th and 6th Gen Tutor)
Power-Up Punch (6th Gen TM)
Mud-slap (4th Gen Tutor)
Retaliate (5th and 6th Gen TM)
Rock Smash (4th, 5th and 6th Gen TM/HM)
Secret Power (4th and 6th Gen TM)
Snatch (4th Gen TM / 5th and 6th Gen Tutor)
Snore (4th, 5th and 6th Gen Tutor)
Strength (4th, 5th and 6th Gen HM)
Superpower (4th, 5th and 6th Gen Tutor)
Thunder Punch (4th, 5th and 6th Gen Tutor)
Vacuum Wave (4th Gen Tutor)
Water Pulse (4th Gen TM / 6th Gen Tutor)
All the moves that Arghonaut already has which were once Tutors or TMs but are no longer either can be found here. In addition, there are three new moves which I added.

First is the past tutor move Bind. This was added as Arghonaut learns Wrap, and every Pokemon that gets Wrap gets Bind (excluding the 7th gen Pokemon that lack access to a Bind tutor).

Second, there is the 6th gen TM Power-Up Punch. Arghonaut is a fighting type, and Arghonaut can punch. While there are rare exceptions, almost every Pokemon that meets those two conditions and existed in gen 6 when it was a TM get access to this move. As I do not believe there is any issue with having this move, it simply is logical for Argho to get it.

Finally, we have the former TM Retaliate. Among fighting types that existed when this was a TM, access is near universal. While again, there are exceptions, the correlation between Fighting type and Retaliate is incredibly high, and there is no real reason for Arghonaut to be an exception.
 
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Quick question: how is Bulk Up to be handled? Are move illegalities still in place, or can it just be finally added as a TM (and possibly removed from its egg moves)?
 

jas61292

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Egg move illegalities simply do no exist anymore*, so unless there is a good reason why the illegality should remain, which I do not believe there is, then it can be removed. Deck and HeaL have the final say on this, but I believe that it is safe to assume it is fine to have the move as a TM. After all, even just leaving it in egg would remove the illegality.

*of that variety. There are still egg move illegalities that exist, but only on Pokemon with baby first stages that have different egg moves than their evolution. That said, a quick check makes me think these kind of illegalities are not implemented in PS! Either that or I am missing some way of circumventing them.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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Yeah I'm fine with Bulk Up being put in as a TM (as long as it stays as an egg move too). What jas says is correct; the egg move illegality is removed naturally simply through the generational update. Bulk Up and Recover will be able to be on the same set regardless of whether or not you say in your movepool that Arghonaut can learn Bulk Up through TM. This is simply a result of the generational consistency changes and since this was already discussed at the start of the thread and unopposed at a competitive level it seems like the most logical path to follow.

Thanks for the question, feel free to ask more if they come up : )
 
This is simply a result of the generational consistency changes and since this was already discussed at the start of the thread and unopposed at a competitive level it seems like the most logical path to follow.
I just seemed to remember something about old move illegalities being kept.

Anyway, on a more important note, there seem to be several discrepancies between Arghonaut's movepool as shown on the CAP site and as reported earlier in this thread. Notably, the on-site movepool lacks some moves like Bubble Beam, Aqua Ring, Dig and Poison Jab, while adding some others like Cut. The movepool in this thread seems to agree with the original submission, but Showdown follows the on-site movepool.
Does this mean that Arghonaut was changed at any point? More importantly, which version of the movepool is the official one?
 
Something I would like to point out is Power-Up Punch. I've seen it be tossed around as flavor, but I think with Technician, it is a very bad idea. It becomes a base 60 power move that always raises your Attack. That doesn't consider STAB. After an attack raise, Power-Up Punch 2HKOs Ferro.

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Arghonaut Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 172-203 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- 40.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Arghonaut Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 252-299 (71.5 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

As you can see, PuP is very dangerous to give to this thing and should be blacklisted. It is simply too good to be flavor.
 

jas61292

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I just seemed to remember something about old move illegalities being kept.

Anyway, on a more important note, there seem to be several discrepancies between Arghonaut's movepool as shown on the CAP site and as reported earlier in this thread. Notably, the on-site movepool lacks some moves like Bubble Beam, Aqua Ring, Dig and Poison Jab, while adding some others like Cut. The movepool in this thread seems to agree with the original submission, but Showdown follows the on-site movepool.
Does this mean that Arghonaut was changed at any point? More importantly, which version of the movepool is the official one?
I believe that yes, it was changed at some point, though I do not know all the details. The on site movepool should be the more accurate one.
 

Deck Knight

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Something I would like to point out is Power-Up Punch. I've seen it be tossed around as flavor, but I think with Technician, it is a very bad idea. It becomes a base 60 power move that always raises your Attack. That doesn't consider STAB. After an attack raise, Power-Up Punch 2HKOs Ferro.

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Arghonaut Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 172-203 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- 40.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Arghonaut Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 252-299 (71.5 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

As you can see, PuP is very dangerous to give to this thing and should be blacklisted. It is simply too good to be flavor.
Uh, Ferro is weak to Argh's STAB, can't touch it after a Bulk Up, and loses to Drain Punch and Close Combat anyway. Ferrothorn is the worst possible example to use when discussing whether a move is too powerful.
 
The on site movepool should be the more accurate one.
Considering the one here lacks Headbutt as a tutor I'd guess around the HGSS era.

Anyway, I went through moth movepool and compiled a list of discrepancies (ignoring repetitions). Bold moves should be the most potentially relevant ones.

Level-up:
- Water Sport
- Mud Sport
- Bubble Beam
- Aqua Ring
- Body Slam
- Wring Out

TMs:
- Safeguard
- Dig
- False Swipe
- Avalanche
- Psych Up
- Poison Jab

Tutor:
- Iron Head
- Uproar
- Zen Headbutt

Egg moves:
- Constrict
- Foresight
- Haze
- Stockpile/Spit Up/Swallow
Level:
- Smoke Screen

TMs:
- Focus Blast
- Cut
- Whirlpool

Tutor:
- Knock Off
- Low Kick
- Vacuum Wave

Asking HeaLnDeaL and Deck Knight for input on this. If the on-site version is indeed the current one, I believe the movepool in this thread should be amended for consistency.
 
Uh, Ferro is weak to Argh's STAB, can't touch it after a Bulk Up, and loses to Drain Punch and Close Combat anyway. Ferrothorn is the worst possible example to use when discussing whether a move is too powerful.
The point is that a flavor move shouldn't be able to do that much, SE or otherwise.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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Sorry, use the onsite moveset found at http://www.smogon.com/cap/pokemon/moves/arghonaut. The other one is indeed outdated and was revised once already. I will remove the outdated movepool from my post above. Our updates will be only to the movepool listed in this post (the on the CAP subsite dex).

Tagging Reviloja753 so that she can change her submission accordingly.

Sorry for the discrepancy and thank you very much for catching my mistake, Menshay!
 

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
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Better get this set up a least before my net says otherwise

WIP

Level-Up
H. Water Sport
H. Mud Sport
- Bubble
- Yawn
- Wrap
7. Smokescreen
10. Yawn
16. Wrap
21. Arm Thrust
25. Circle Throw
27. Aqua Jet
32. Mach Punch
36. Taunt
41. Revenge
47.Thief
55. Submission
60. Punishment
67. Focus


I decided to add Circle Throw in between Aqua Jet and Mach Punch, as they all get a nifty Technician boosts. It also mirrors the level that similar pokemon get Circle Throw with the exception of Poliwrath.

TMs
TM01 - Work Up
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM47 - Low Sweep
TM48 - Round
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM59 - Brutal Swing
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
TM94 - Surf
TM98 - Waterfall

TM100 - Confide

Added the required move in Scald and Bulldoze, while fixing he move illegality in Bulk Up by putting it here. Also added the near-universals that Argho doesn't have, as well as HM transition moves Surf and Waterfall. I personally added Work Up and Low Sweep to the mix, as I feel that they fit Arghonaut pretty well; Work Up is a common move on nearly every Fighting type and works well with an angry pirate, while Low Sweep is also a move that makes sense on a pirate, as he actively goes for low blows. Brutal Swing makes sense with Arghonaut, as it has plenty of squiddy limbs to throw around, as well as his naturally Brutal nature.

Egg Moves
Close Combat
Cross Chop
Headbutt
Octozooka
Recover
Scary Face
Soak
Spikes

Close Combat and Spikes were added to fufill updates competitive aspects. I also added Soak as flavor, as a certain similar mon named Octillery gets it, and you would likely get soaked if you sailed on the high seas.

Transfer Only
Bind
Dive
Foul Play
Gunk Shot
Headbutt
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Low Kick
Mud Slap
Snore
Superpower
Thunder Punch
Vacuum Wave


*These are out of order

Strength
Rock Smash
Whirlpool
Cut
Brine
Captivate
Snatch
Secret Power
Water Pulse
Endure
Power Up Punch
Retaliate

Not too big of a change, but added Foul Play, Power-Up Punch, and Retaliate. Foul Play because Argho is a pirate, and pirates usually play dirty. The other two moves are fairly standard on Fighting types, and need little explanation. Also added Bind because of its ability to learn Wrap, and can put its foes into quite the Bind. No? No.

Looking for feedback.
 
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Final Submission

- Soak
- Brine
- Wide Guard
- Bubble
- Smokescreen
- Wrap
Evolution: Soak
7 Smokescreen
10 Wrap
16 Yawn
21 Arm Thrust
27 Aqua Jet
32 Mach Punch
36 Taunt
41 Revenge
47 Thief
51 Submission
55 Close Combat
60 Punishment
67 Focus Punch
- As a minor note, I swapped Wrap and Yawn because I envision an octopus learning to do the former before the latter. I also replaced Yawn with Smokescreen as a repeated level 1 move for consistency with how level 1 repeats work.
- Due to the large level gap between 47 and 55, I moved Submission to an intermediate 51 and added the compulsory Close Combat in Submission's place: so far only Hitmonchan learns both Close Combat and Focus Punch naturally, and he learns Close Combat before Focus Punch. Additionally, the only compatible father with Close Combat is Crabrawler/Crabominable, so adding Close Combat to Arghonaut's level-up movepool would allow it to be used in potential G5/6 CAP metagames.

The other three new moves are flavour:
- Wide Guard has a rather wide distribution and is learned as a heart scale move by several evolved Pokémon (Machamp, Kingler, Araquanid, Mr. Mime and Probopass); I can envision it as Arghonaut stretching out its tentacles to protect its teammate (or, in nature, its crew).
- Soak too has a wide distribution. I added it as an evolution move (duplicated at level 1) to represent an unevolved Privatyke becoming the captain and making its foes walk the plank.
- Brine is not actually new, as it is already available as a G4 TM, but being related to salt water I feel it especially fits a sea-faring pirate; plus it is already well-distributed among sea-dwellers, particularly in G5/G6 level-up movepools. Having it as a level 1 move is unusual (but not unprecedented, see Hariyama) but unlike Close Combat I couldn't find a spot to add it without changing Arghonaut's level-up lineup too much (which I prefer not doing).

Brine (itself, Tentacool and many others)
Bulk Up
Chip Away (Totodile)
Circle Throw (Poliwrath)
Cross Chop
Headbutt
Octazooka
Recover
Scary Face
Spikes (Cloyster/Greninja)
- Spikes and Circle Throw are compulsory: I believe they do not really fit Arghonaut's main flavour (Spikes in particular), so I put them here.
- Chip Away seems to consist of relentless and possibly brutal attacking, which I believe fits Arghonaut's nature as a pirate.
- Brine is duplicated to give Privatyke easy access to it too. Compare with Wingull and Clamperl, which get Brine by breeding but not by level unlike their evolutions Pelipper and Huntail.

TM01 Work Up
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM07 Hail
TM08 Bulk Up
TM10 Hidden Power
TM12 Taunt
TM13 Ice Beam
TM14 Blizzard
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM36 Sludge Bomb
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM47 Low Sweep
TM48 Round
TM49 Snatch
TM52 Focus Blast
TM55 Scald
TM56 Fling
TM58 Endure
TM59 Brutal Swing
TM63 Embargo
TM68 Giga Impact
TM71 Stone Edge
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
TM94 Surf
TM98 Waterfall
TM100 Confide
- Scald and Bulldoze are compulsory; Confide and Round are universal.
- With move illegalities removed, Bulk Up can finally be here as well.
- Work Up is almost universal among Fighting-types. It does allow Arghonaut to boots its Special Attack, but considering how low it is it shouldn't be overbearing.
- I can see Brutal Swing as Arghonaut flailing around hitting stuff, not caring much for (or being unaware of) its surroundings. It is boosted by Technician, but so is Thief which Arghonaut already gets and has the exact same base power (plus Arghonaut has Knock Off too).
- Low Sweep is common among Fighting-types with arms and tripping opponents is a dirty tactic fitting a pirate. Note that it is no longer affected by Tecnician due to its new 65 base power, and Arghonaut already has other speed-controlling moves (Icy Wind, Rock Tomb and the newly added Bulldoze); it is slightly (~97.5) more powerful than those due to STAB, though.

Focus Punch (G4 TM01) (also a tutor)
Water Pulse (G4 TM03) (also a tutor)
Drain Punch (G4 TM60) (also a tutor)
Surf (HM03) (also a new TM)
Waterfall (HM07/05) (also a new TM)

Brine (G4 TM55) (also a level-up/egg move)
Captivate (G4 TM78)
Natural Gift (G4 TM83)

Cut (HM01)
Strength (HM04)
Whirlpool (HGSS TM05)
Rock Smash (HM06)

Secret Power (ORAS TM94)
Power-Up Punch (G6 TM98)
Retaliate (G5/6 TM67)
- Power-Up Punch fits with the other punching moves, and Arghonaut already has both more powerful Fighting moves and ways to boost its attack.
- I can see Retaliate being related to Revenge, plus its distribution is somewhat variegated.
- Secret Power is universal.

Bind
Dive
Drain Punch
Focus Punch
Foul Play
Gunk Shot
Headbutt
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Low Kick
Mud-Slap
Snore
Superpower
Thunder Punch
Vacuum Wave
Water Pulse
- Moves in italics are simply old TMs which became tutors.
- I believe Foul Play fits nicely a pirate's untrustworthy nature, and due to Arghounaut's high attack it should be better off using Knock Off most of the time.
- Checked on Bulbapedia, turns out jas is correct about Wrap implying the Bind tutor, so here it is; Bind is completely outclassed by Wrap anyway.
 
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snake

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Mod fixed version fixed 6/24/17 to address TM issues

Level-Up Moves:
- Bubble
- Wrap
Evolve: Circle Throw
7 Smokescreen
10 Yawn
14 Arm Thrust
19 Aqua Jet
24 Taunt
30 Chip Away
35 Mach Punch
40 Scald
46 Revenge
51 Thief
56 Submission
62 Wide Guard
67 Punishment
73 Focus Punch
TMs:
TM01 - Work Up
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM47 - Low Sweep
TM48 - Round
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM63 - Embargo
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM94 - Surf
TM98 - Waterfall

TM100 - Confide
Egg Moves:
Bulk Up
Cross Chop
Headbutt
Octazooka
Recover
Scary Face
Spikes
Close Combat
Old TMs:
Brine
Captivate
Cut
Dive
Drain Punch
Endure
Natural Gift
Power Up Punch
Retaliate

Rock Smash
Secret Power
Snatch
Strength
Water Pulse
Whirlpool
Tutor List:
Dive
Foul Play
Gunk Shot
Headbutt
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Low Kick
Mud Slap
Snore
Superpower
Thunder Punch
Vacuum Wave





Final Submission

- Bubble
- Wrap
Evolve: Circle Throw
7 Smokescreen
10 Yawn
14 Arm Thrust
19 Aqua Jet
24 Taunt
30 Chip Away
35 Mach Punch
40 Scald
46 Revenge
51 Thief
56 Submission
62 Wide Guard
67 Punishment
73 Focus Punch
I removed the odd repeats of Yawn and Wrap, changed the movepool to mostly 5-5-6 (starts after level 14), switched Taunt and Mach Punch so the two priority moves weren't directly next to each other, added Chip Away at Level 30 to have some Normal-type move and Scald at Level 40 to have something other than Bubble and Aqua Jet, and made Circle Throw its Evolve move. I can't really see Privatyke using Circle Throw. I know Whismur, Riolu, Buneary, and Pancham get the move, but I really just can't see Privatyke using it because it just looks too clumsy. Additionally, users like Poliwrath and Throh remind me of Arghonaut, so I figured Evolve would be a good place. Adding Wide Guard because lots of Water-types and Fighting-types get it (a certain other Fighting-type CAP could be getting Quick Guard for counterpart flavor!). Arghonaut might play bad, but he's loyal to his crew, so he protects them from large attacks that could wipe them out.

TM01 - Work Up
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM47 - Low Sweep
TM48 - Round
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
TM94 - Surf
TM98 - Waterfall

TM100 - Confide
Work Up is mostly universal on Fighting-types, Bulk Up is an egg move, Low Sweep because Arghonaut gets Low Kick, Scald is required, Bulldoze is required, Poison Jab is inferior to Gunk Shot, and Surf and Waterfall are old HMs. Universal TMs added as well.

Bulk Up
Cross Chop
Headbutt
Octazooka
Recover
Scary Face
Spikes
Close Combat
Added Spikes and Close Combat. Cloyster and Crabominable give these respectively.

Brine
Captivate
Cut
Endure
Power Up Punch
Retaliate

Rock Smash
Secret Power
Snatch
Strength
Water Pulse
Whirlpool
Near universal moves on Fighting-types.

Dive
Foul Play
Gunk Shot
Headbutt
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Low Kick
Mud Slap
Snore
Superpower
Thunder Punch
Vacuum Wave
Foul Play because pirates play bad!

Overall, I didn't want to inflate Arghonaut's movepool (certainly lots of opportunity to do so) because it already has quite the diverse movepool.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Alright, since this is dying down but I realize movepool submissions take a while, I'm going to call a tentative 72 hour warning. If you plan on submitting, please work on your stuff soon :) Also, please be sure to mark your submissions with a bolded "Final Submission" when you are done with your WIP.

Outside of the forums, there's been some discussion regarding the move Avalanche. With Technician as an ability, Arghonuat's Avalanche will always do either 90BP worth of damage (if moving first) or 120 (if moving second). This effectively makes Avalanche always stronger that Ice Hammer (assuming Technician at least), which we voted against having. Thus I am going to likely go ahead and ban the move Avalanche... but I'll allow people to make pleas still, just so that if anyone wanted to discuss it then he/she still has that option.

I believe Avalanche only came up in movepools because of my earlier mistake of posting Argho's original movepool, which has since changed. Once upon a time, Arghonaut did know Avalanche, but this has long since been changed.

There's also been discussion on Power Up Punch. I think it does have potential to be a borderline competitive move but that it struggles for a moveslot and so I don't think it's a really big concern and I will probably allow it (unless someone persuades me to ban it in these last few days).

Tagging the people who have made submissions just so they are aware:

jas61292 Reviloja753 LucarioOfLegends snake_rattler Menshay
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Avalanche gets the power boost if you take damage, not if you go second, so it's 90BP on switchins and against status moves with Technician.

It has -4 priority so it can never finish off an opponent before taking a hit, and it's Z-Move is actually weaker than Ice Punch's. In other words it has fewer good qualities compared to Ice Hammer.

Overall I think it is balanced enough to not be an issue, -4 priority (and no freeze chance) is a pretty big drawback for 15 more BP, and even in cases where you take damage, Arghonaut is not going to survive a Lando-T Supersonic Skystrike. It's a great move for pegging switchins, but very impractical otherwise.
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
jas today on ps said:
[16:38:24] #jas61292: Are we talking about Ice move on Argho?
[16:38:30] #jas61292: Cause if so, I think its a bad idea
[16:39:01] #jas61292: we already voted down one, I don't see a point in allowing another which could be even better
[16:39:35] #jas61292: not to mention, we are essentially past the competitive moves part, and Avalanche, which has been suggested, is not good for consistency
[The proceeding post is me talking as a user, not as a UL, in sharing my personal opinions on a move. This is not at the stage of me saying I'm acting as a TL to ban said move and instead I'm just trying to put my two cents in so that it has an impact on the overall icc.]

Realistically I don't think the negative priority of Avalanche is detrimental nearly enough to make up for the positives that is has over the move we just banned, Ice Hammer. The vast majority of the things that Avalanche targets are faster than Arghonaut to start with, so the negative priority is not impactful. Avalanche usually will have 20% more power than Ice Hammer and will have perfect accuracy to boot, and as worse it will have only 10% less power and will maybe not allow Argho to it something that was paralyzed or something before it hits Argho. Furthermore, the negative priority on only Avalanche is potentially a better effect than the minus speed for all of Argho's non prio moves that would result from using Ice Hammer

The Z move argument is potentially valid, but the number of mons that Arghonaut would even want to use a Z Ice move against seems rather low (Garchomp and Dragonite seem like the only ones that come to mind and even still a non z ice move will severely dent their plans... unless Dragonite is Z Fly, outspeeds, and eliminates beforehand regardless, making the efforts moot).

Overall I don't think we can say that Technician Avalanche is worse that Ice Hammer (in fact, I think its over better, but some niche cases are certainly debatable). Since we already voted to not allow Ice Hammer and since Avalanche has notable competitive implications and was failed to be brought up during open competitive move discussion, I don't particularly see any convincing arguments to allow it here. This is just my personal take for the time being though.
 
WIP
Evo. Close Combat
- Bubble
- Yawn
- Wrap
- Circle Throw
7. Smokescreen
10. Yawn
16. Wrap
21. Arm Thrust
27. Aqua Jet
32. Mach Punch
36. Taunt
41. Revenge
47. Thief
51. Chip Away
55. Submission
59. Punishment
63. Wide Guard
67. Focus Punch
Circle Throw could theoretically be passed down by Poliwrath, but I don't imagine Privatyke being able to just that, so Argho gets it by Heart Scale. I don't know how Privatyke evolves, speaking of, so I put the Close Combat spot at a placeholder. Toxapex, Carracosta, and Throh all get Wide Guard, so Arghonaut should too. Chip Away is there because the Pokémon that learn it tend to be hard hitters (well not nidoqueen but look at them. arghonaut would be unlikely to look out of place), and only Technician sets would benefit anyway, even without the buff, since Chip Away is redundant with Unaware's effects. I noticed some 4-level gaps between some moves, so that should hopefully explain the last six moves.
TM01 - Work Up
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Smack Down
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM34 - Sludge Wave
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM47 - Low Sweep
TM48 - Round

TM52 - Focus Blast
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM59 - Brutal Swing
TM60 - Quash

TM63 - Embargo
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM94- Surf
TM98 - Waterfall
TM100 - Confide
Quash is there because Pokemon with it are commonly based off of high authority, whether it be royalty or crime boss, and you know what Arghonaut is? Brutal Swing has competitive implications, since it's a 90BP Dark-type move after Technician, but Knock Off hits for almost 100BP when the target is holding an item that's neither Mega Stone nor Z-Crystal, on top of removing said item. Work Up is there because it's near-universal amongst Fighting-types, but it's outclassed by Bulk Up. Smack Down and Low Sweep are also near-universal amongst fighting-types. Speaking of Near-Universal, Confide is such a move amongst EVERYTHING. For Sludge Wave, not only would Argho be used to filthy conditions, but it also sails the seven seas...
Egg Groups: Water 1 / Water 3
- Cross Chop (Psyduck/Binacle)
- Headbutt (Slowpoke/Seel/Mantine/Bidoof/Buizel)
- Octazooka (Remoraid/Horsea)
- Recover (Corsola/Milotic/Shellos/Mareanie/Pyukumuku/Lileep)
- Scary Face (Totodile/Masquerain/Huntail/Archen)
- Spikes (Cloyster/Greninja/Omanyte/Delibird)
- Soak (Psyduck/Remoraid/Wingull/Alomomola/Araquanid/Marill/Buizel)
The Energy Ball anomaly with Vulpix was fixed in Gen V, so I imagine that the Privatyke/Bulk Up anomaly would also be fixed then. Soak may seem a bit scary, as it allows Argho to remove Pyroak's STAB bonus and then follow with a Thunder Punch, but not only can Pyroak be switched out, but Argho's got Gunk Shot for that anyway. Even then, the effect resets after a switch-out, and Plasmanta doesn't care about Soak, nor is it going to take much damage from a Thunder Punch or Gunk Shot. Spikes is there, as it couldn't be chain-bred through Omanyte onto Delibird until Gen VI.
- Bind (Gens V-VI Tutor)
- Brine (Gen IV TM55)
- Captivate (Gen IV TM78)
- Covet (Gens V-VI Tutor)
- Cut (Gens IV-VI HM01)
- Dive (Gen IV Tutor; Gen V HM06; ORAS HM07)
- Dig (Gens IV-VI TM28)
- Drain Punch (Gen IV TM60; Gens V-VI Tutor)
- Dual Chop (Gens V-VI Tutor)
- Endure (Gen IV TM58)
- Foul Play (Gens V-VI Tutor)
- Gunk Shot (Gen IV Tutor)
- Ice Punch (Gens IV-VI Tutor)
- Icy Wind (Gens IV-VI Tutor)
- Headbutt (HGSS Tutor)
- Hone Claws (Gens V-VI TM01)
- Knock Off (Gens IV-VI Tutor)
- Low Kick (Gens IV-VI Tutor)
- Mud-Slap (Gen IV Tutor)
- Natural Gift (Gen IV TM83)
- Power-Up Punch (Gen VI TM98)
- Retaliate (Gens V-VI TM67)
- Rock Smash (Gen IV/ORAS HM06; Gen V/XY TM94)
- Secret Power (Gen IV TM43; ORAS TM94)
- Snatch (Gen IV TM49; Gens V-VI Tutor)
- Snore (Gen IV Tutor)
- Strength (Gens IV-VI HM04)
- Superpower (Gens IV-VI Tutor)
- Thunder Punch (Gens IV-VI Tutor)
- Vacuum Wave (Gen IV Tutor)
- Water Pulse (Gen IV TM03; ORAS Tutor)
- Whirlpool (HGSS HM05)
Hone Claws sounds dangerous, as it lets Gunk Shot guarantee that Kerfluffle walks the plank, but Bulk Up buffs its Defense in addition to Attack, rather than Accuracy, so it's outclassed. Even then, the opponent's likely to switch predicting SE anyway. Retaliate is there because, like Work Up, it's near-universal among Fighting-types, though your opponent might as well switch in Kitsunoh or Naviathan if said opponent starts to predict that move. Dual Chop is also near-universal among Fighting-types, and Power-Up Punch, which might have competitive implications as well, is learnable by most Pokémon with hands. Speaking of, looking at Privatyke, it looks like it could use Covet... Then evolve into Arghonaut. Foul Play is here because Pirates are only known to play by their own rules, though it does have the potential to be dangerous, hitting as hard as Knock Off, it uses the target's Attack stat instead, so best of luck dealing major damage to a Fidgit with that. Bind is here because Argho has tentacles.
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Alright, this is now the official 24 hour warning. Please be sure to make sure all your submissions are legal, have explanations, and are marked as a Final Submission if you want to be considered for the slate. Additionally, I'm going to go ahead and more officially ban Avalanche (though Deck obviously has the power to +1 it or poll it if he chooses).

I looked through the submissions and most of them looking great and legal. However, here are some moves that I'm seeing that shouldn't be allowed:

Avalanche
Iron Head
Zen Headbutt

Try to make sure everything is legal and justified :)
 
Final Submission

Evolution - Metal Claw
0 - Revenge
0 - Bubble
0 - Yawn
0 - Mist
6 - Smokescreen
11 - Yawn
16 - Wrap
22 - Arm Thrust
27 - Aqua Jet
27 - Mach Punch
32 - Submission
38 - Circle Throw
43 - Revenge
48 - Taunt
54 - Foul Play
59 - Brine

64 - Punishment
70 - Focus Punch


I am a flavor-biased designer, foremost, and I believe that my level-up movepool reflects this. The first thing one will notice is the addition of Metal Claw as an evolution move. I thought this would be a nice touch for Arghonaut, as Metal Claw isn't a competitively viable attack, even when factoring in Technician, and it gives a nod to Arghonaut's shiny new hook hand which it gains upon evolution. Nevertheless, given that Iron Head was disallowed, I am willing to remove it if necessary. Next, I've duplicated Revenge, and added it to Arghonaut's starting move list. This is done because Revenge is a significant flavor move for Arghonaut, and many fully-evolved Pokemon learn the strong attacks which are important to their design at level-0 in addition to a later one. Rounding out the level-0 Moveset, we have Mist, a competitively worthless attack which many Water-types learn and which represents the foggy conditions a sailor may encounter on the high seas.

I have added three additional new moves to the latter half of Arghonaut's movepool: Circle Throw, Foul Play, and Brine. Circle Throw is a required move for Arghonaut, and its placement represents this while also respecting its moderately low base-attack-power. Foul Play is a nice flavor move, given the nature of nautical pirates, and finds a place at an appropriately high level for its BAP. Finally, Brine .

The remainder of the movepool is relatively simple and self-explanatory. I have rearranged moves based on their base-attack power and competitive use, notably lowering the level at which Arghonaut learns Submission and slightly increasing the level at which it learns Taunt. I have also bound Aqua Jet and Mach Punch to the same level, as they are roughly equivalent moves which I feel fit better into Arghonaut's movepool without a large gap between them. I am also unaware of any existing Pokemon which learns two sub-50 BAP attacks consecutively at levels past its early development, so I felt that this was a needed change. Finally, I gave the Moveset a facelift, reassigning the somewhat erratic placement of moves to a 6-5-5 pattern.

Chip Away (Feraligatr/Kingler/Crawdaunt)
Close Combat (Crabominable)

Cross Chop
Headbutt
Misty Terrain (Primarina)
Octazooka
Recover
Scary Face
Soak (Golduck/Octillery/Pelipper/Alomomola/Azumarill/Floatzel)
Spikes (Cloyster/Omastar/Golisopod)
Wide Guard (Kingler/Mantine/Carracosta/Alomomola/Swampert/Pelipper)


As for Arghonaut's Egg moves, I've made a few additions. Close Combat and Spikes are required moves, so I do not believe that I should spend too much time talking about the pair. Nevertheless, I must mention that I think jas's justification for Close Combat being an egg move is ingenious, and it influenced me to do the same. Moving on, I have added four flavor moves to Arghonaut's Egg Move list: Chip Away, Misty Terrain, Soak, and Wide Guard. Chip Away represents the arduous single combat which a pirate might have engaged in while pillaging ships, and also references Arghonaut's original Unaware concept. Misty Terrain is a natural extension of the logic behind my inclusion of Mist, and it represents a more potent version of Arghonaut's ability to produce foggy conditions. It is also an homage to Misty Surge, the ill-fated runner-up ability which Arghonaut possessed during our revamp process. Soak is a move which is learned by many Water-type Pokemon, and Arghonaut looks like it has the proper physiognomy to do so itself. Wide Guard is learned by many Fighting-type Pokemon, and Arghonaut appears to have a large enough wingspan to feasibly use the move. Additionally, Wide Guard also reflects themes of pirates working together while assaulting other ships.

TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM09 - Venoshock

TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM47 - Low Sweep
TM48 - Round

TM52 - Focus Blast
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM59 - Brutal Swing
TM63 - Embargo
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM83 - Infestation
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM94 - Surf
TM98 - Waterfall
TM100 - Confide


Bulk Up has been added to Arghonaut's TM list, given that the previous restriction has been lifted. I have also added Venoshock to Arghonaut's movepool, which, although it is capable of reaching 130 BAP, utilizes Arghonaut's weak Special Attack score and is a very niche move otherwise. Overall, I didn't think that it would be too strong. Low Sweep is a flavor move, representing the versatile fighting styles of many Fighting-type Pokemon, which also gives Arghonaut an alternative method of speed control. Scald and Bulldoze are required moves, but they are also excellent from a flavor standpoint, given that the vast majority of Water-type Pokemon learn the former, and nearly every Pokemon which learns Earthquake is also capable of learning Bulldoze.

Round and Confide are universal TM moves, so Arghonaut will learn them as well. I thought that Brutal Swing would be a good fit on Arghonaut, as it could easily lash out in all directions with its many tentacles; also, the vicious nature of the attack fits with Arghonaut's piratical theme. Finally, I have added Infestation to Arghonaut's movepool. Infestation is a nod to the filthy and disease-ridden conditions in which pirates lived, and does not provide Arghonaut with any meaningful competitive options or clash with its existing flavor.

Bind (BW/ORAS Tutor)
Brine (DPPt TM)
Captivate (DPPt TM)
Dive (HGSS Tutor / BW/ORAS HM)
Drain Punch (DPPt TM / BW/ORAS Tutor)
Dual Chop (BW/XY Tutor)
Endure (DPPt TM)
Gunk Shot (DPPt/BW/ORAS Tutor)
Ice Punch (DPPt/BW/ORAS Tutor)
Icy Wind (DPPt/BW/ORAS Tutor)
Knock Off (DPPt/BW/ORAS Tutor)
Low Kick (DPPt/BW/ORAS Tutor)
Power-Up Punch (XY TM)
Mud-slap (DPPt Tutor)
Retaliate (BW/XY TM)
Rock Smash (DPPt/BW/ORAS TM/HM)
Secret Power (DPPt/ORAS TM)
Snatch (DPPt/BW/ORAS Tutor)
Snore (DPPt/BW/ORAS Tutor)
Strength (DPPt/BW/ORAS HM)
Superpower (DPPt/BW/ORAS Tutor)
Thunder Punch (DPPt/BW/ORAS Tutor)
Vacuum Wave (DPPt Tutor)
Water Pulse (DPPt TM / ORAS Tutor)


Above is a list of all of the moves which Arghonaut is capable of learning via transfer. Bind has been added due to Arghonaut's ability to learn of Constrict, given that the pair are inseparable in GameFreak's creations. Dual Chop is a coverage move of an unfavorable type which is learned by many Fighting-types, and given that Arghonaut has many limbs and multiple weapons at its disposal, I thought that it would be a fitting addition to its movepool. Power-up Punch is a near-universal TM move for Fighting-types, and I do not think that Arghonaut should be the exception to this rule, especially given its large glove-like fists. Finally, I have added Retaliate: a competitively worthless move which shares themes of retribution with Revenge.
 
Last edited:

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Alright, submissions are now closed.

Reviloja753,LucarioOfLegends, and KirbyRide117 all never made a final submission so I cannot in good faith slate them.

Therefore my slate is:
jas61292
Menshay
snake_rattler
S0L1D G0LD

The 4 submissions made by the users above appear to be legal to mje and they offered more than sufficient reasoning. My intent is for all four to go to a single Ranked Pairs Poll since the number isn't particularly a good number to have two polls, but I'll defer to Deck's judgement on the number of polls he wants.

Tagging Deck Knight to confirm the slate or to do any +/- 1s that he wants to do. Since I may or may not be on during the time Deck finalizes what he wants to the slate to be, I'm also just going to ask right here for Deck himself to create the poll so that we can minimize lag time.
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Slate looks fine. I won't be available to post a proper poll until morning so please feel free to start it.
 
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