Celebi (OU Revamp)


http://www.smogon.com/dex/rs/pokemon/celebi/

[Overview]
- By far the best grass type in the tier and at least top 5 in the tier as a whole.
- 100 base stats across the board and nice support move pool make it extremely versatile.
- Typing gives it some good switch ins such as water types, bulky grounds and electrics, however it also leaves it with a number of weaknesses, most notably the 4x bug weakness which leaves it vulnerable to Dugtrio.
- Every team must have a way to deal with Celebi.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Calm Mind / Hidden Power Grass / Heal Bell / Reflect/ Perish Song / Baton Pass
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Recover
move 4: Psychic / Hidden Power Grass
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 104 SpAtk / 20 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- This Celebi is one of the best pivots in the tier being able to switch in on common threats such as Curselax, Gengar, Zapdos and water types.
- Leech Seed is very important to this set as it allows Celebi to beat and phaze threats such as Curselax and Defensive Suicune while also annoying nearly any pokemon switching in to Celebi and taking advantage of high HP pokemon like Blissey.
- Recover is also extremely important to defensive Celebi as it allows it to take advantage of its bulk and stick around for long portions of the match.
- The main attacks defensive Celebi uses are Psychic and Hidden Power Grass. Psychic allows Celebi to do solid damage to Gengar, making it a solid answer to it. Hidden Power Grass' main utility is OHKOing Dugtrio however the fact that it hits Tyranitar super effectively is also notable.
- Celebi also has a number of other utility moves at its disposal. It's one of the few reliable status removers in the tier with Heal Bell, allowing it to pair nicely with raw Rest users like Curselax and Suicune, while also supporting pokemon like Claydol whos jobs become significantly harder with status moves involved. Reflect helps against common match ups like Snorlax and Dugtrio and allows Celebi to support its team by softening the blows from physical attacks. Perish Song gives Celebi an alternative phazing method that is a bit more urgent and isn't blocked by substitute. Finally Baton pass is useful on trap teams for allowing Celebi to get Magneton or Dugtrio in on things like Skarmory, Forretress and Tyranitar, all of whom are common switch ins for defensive Celebi.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- The EVs allow celebi to always OHKO Dugtrio with Hidden Power Grass. 20 Speed allows Celebi to out speed Endeavor Swampert, as well as neutral Magneton and Metagross. The rest is thrown into physical defense to allow Celebi to counter Curselax and make it as tanky as possible with some Calm Mind boosts.
- More specially defensive move sets are also viable. 32 Special Defense allows Celebi to not be 2hkod by Timid Gengar in Sand, and 84 Special Defense allows it to do the same with offensive Starmie's Ice Beam.
- This set can be used on a variety of teams. Stall teams appreciate its ability to force out Curselax and wear down foes with Leech Seed, whereas offensive teams (particularly physically offensive teams) appreciate its ability to act as a pivot against bulky waters.
- Perish Song Celebi can be used with Mean Look + Baton Pass Umbreon to attempt to trap and kill members of the opposing team.
- This set is easily set up on by Skarmory and Forretress. It is therefore recommended that this celebi be paired with either Magneton or some sort of reliable rapid spinner in order to handle the spikes.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Psychic / Baton Pass
move 3: Giga Drain / Baton Pass
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid / Modest
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpAtk / 152 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- This variant of Celebi is one of the most dangerous sweepers in the tier.
- Calm Mind turns Celebi into an offensive powerhouse. Often one turn of set up is all that is needed.
- Psychic is Celebi’s most powerful STAB move.
- Giga Drain provides secondary STAB and hits a lot of Celebi’s counters such as Tyranitar extremely hard after a Calm Mind boost. It also provides some recovery.
- Hidden Power Fire is recommended in the last slot for its great coverage alongside Giga Drain and its ability to hit steels. This set’s ability to lure in steels such as Skarmory, Metagross and Forretress is one of its main assets. If using baton pass, Hidden Power Fire is useful for its ability to punish Skarmory attempting to PHaze.
- Baton Pass can be used as a way to keep tempo and turn powerful attackers such as Zapdos, Gengar and Moltres into extremely threatening sweepers at the cost of one of Celebi’s coverage moves.
- Hidden Power Ice can be used in the last slot to lure Salamence while keeping the super effective hit on opposing Celebi at the cost of being unable to hit steels. It can also kill Flygon, although many Flygon will speed tie a max speed Celebi and OHKO it with Choice Band Hidden Power Bug.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- The EV investment gives it as much special attack as possible and a speed stat of 300 to out speed neutral base 100s, giving it a greater offensive presence. The rest is thrown into HP.
- A Modest nature is also viable on this set for more power. If using this, hitting speed stats of 270 to out speed Adamant Heracross or 299 to speed tie neutral base 100s are recommended.
- With the lack of defensive investment this set is surprisingly frail, and therefore has a difficult time taking on Pokemon Celebi is normally good against such as Snorlax. It is also worth noting that Dugtrio has a very good chance to OHKO even at full health.
- This set appreciates ways in which to deal with Blissey and Dugtrio, its two best counters. Lures such as explosion Gengar can help in this regard. Porygon2 can also be useful to get rid of Dugtrio.
- This set is best on offensive teams and is most commonly found on Calm Mind Spam teams. Dangerous special attackers lacking Calm Mind such as Gengar and Zapdos are also good with this set if using Baton Pass.
- Dugtrio can be very useful in these types of teams alongside Celebi. If opposing Dugtrio kill Celebi, locking themselves into Hidden Power Bug, your own Dugtrio can then trap it without fear of being killed, giving pokemon such as Raikou and Jirachi a better chance of sweeping. This strategy can also be paired with Heracross who has the ability to sacrifice itself for Celebi by locking Dugtrio into Aerial Ace.

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Recover
move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Rock
move 4: Baton Pass / Shadow Ball
item: Leftovers
nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Atk / 152 Spd

[SET COMMENTS]
-This set's primary use is to pass Swords Dance boosts to team mates.
-Swords Dance allows Celebi to get some actual punch behind its attacks, and if using baton pass, support its team by making fellow physical attackers very dangerous.
-Recover allows Celebi to stay alive.
-Hidden Power Fighting allows Celebi to hit Tyranitar and Houndoom, two of its usual counters It also does good damage to Snorlax.
- Hidden Power Rock allows Celebi to hit Zapdos attempting to PHaze, 2HKOing it after a Swords Dance, while still hitting Houndoom.
- Baton Pass is the main option in the last slot. It allows Celebi to pass the Swords Dances making already very dangerous physical attackers that much more dangerous.
-Shadow Ball can be used instead for extra coverage to allow Celebi to be a sweeper in its own right at the cost of being able to pass its boosts.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
-The EVs allow it to out speed neutral base 100s. This gives it a greater offensive presence and allows it to get a Baton Pass off versus a wider variety of Pokemon. HP is maxed for maximum bulk and the rest is pumped into attack to boost its damage output.
- This set likes partners who can get rid of opposing PHazers. Magneton is crucial for getting rid of Skarmory who hard walls this set and can PHaze it out all day. Something to lure in Roar Suicune and Roar Zapdos (If not using HP Rock) can also be very helpful.
- Of course if running the Baton Pass set, Celebi needs to be partnered with powerful physical attackers who can make use of the boosts. This can include Agiligross, Aerodactyl, Dragon Dance Tyranitar, and a variety of other dangerous physical threats.

[SET]
name: Sub Seed
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Baton Pass
move 4: Recover / Giga Drain / Hidden Power Grass / Psychic
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid / Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Substitute and Leech Seed allow Celebi to continually sap health of slow bulky Pokemon. This should result in a switch allowing Celebi to keep a Substitute up to pass off.
- This set is very good at controlling tempo and that is where Baton Pass comes in. Once a Substitute is kept up Celebi can pass it off to a dangerous attacker giving it free turns to set up. Alternatively it can dry pass to get favorable match ups and aid trappers.
- Recover can be used to keep Celebi healthy however an attack is not a bad idea either to allow Celebi to finish off weakened foes, and punish offensive teams from behind a Substitute. Giga Drain provides some extra recovery. Hidden Power Grass has more PP and slightly more power. Psychic has the most power and provides different coverage if necessary.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- The EVs give it a speed stat of 300 allowing it to outspeed neutral base 100s. The more speed it has, the more opportunities it has to set up Substitute, and therefore gain tempo. Its HP is maxed and the rest is thrown in to defense to maximize bulk. Using a Bold nature is also a possibility to give it more physical bulk. In this case the speed can be dropped down to 270 for Adamant Heracross.
- This Celebi set has great synergy with Magneton. Magneton gets rid of Skarmory who can shut down this set fairly easily, whereas Celebi has the ability to Baton Pass, scouting for Skarmory switch ins. If the Skarmory switches in on a Baton Pass, not only does Magneton not have to worry about a Dugtrio double switch, but it also has a decent chance of killing Skarmory before it gets up any spikes.
- Dugtrio can also benefit from this strategy. Common switch ins to Celebi such as Tyranitar can find themselves facing a Dugtrio due to a well timed baton pass.
- The other main draw of this set is its ability to provide free turns to dangerous Pokemon to do as they please through the use of Substitute passing. Set up users like Dragon Dance Tyranitar and Curse Snorlax can be very dangerous in combination with this set. More utility based Pokemon can also make use of this for example Skarmory can use the free turns to set up Spikes, and HP Ghost Forretress can use the opportunity to get off a guaranteed Rapid Spin.

[Other Options]
- Bulky Calm Mind + Baton Pass
- Calm Specially defensive Celebi

[Checks and Counters]
- Celebi’s counters vary widely depending on if it’s running an offensive or defensive set.
- Both have to worry about Dugtrio, Houndoom and other fire types, physically offensive flying types, ice types such as Regice and Articuno, and various Pokemon running Hidden Power Bug.
- Offensive Celebi has more problems with Snorlax and Calm Mind / Toxic Blissey.
- Defensive Celebi has more problems with Forretress, Skarmory, Tyranitar, opposing offensive Celebi.
 
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Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpAtk / 152 Spe

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- The EV investment gives it as much special attack as possible and a speed stat of 300 with the rest thrown into HP. 300 is the lowest speed you should use on this set and it is recommended to speed creep in order to beat things such as +1 Dragon Dance Tyranitar.
the policy is no 'speed creep' in analyses, so make it clear that the EVs hit a specific benchmark, and make it clear that it's just to hit that benchmark rather than 'creep'
 
Don't forget to list Regice as one of the best counters.

Touch on the option of the defensive sets using enough SAtk (100 EVs) to kill 48 SDef Dug with HP Grass (30 SDef IV and 30 SAtk IV assumed), it doesn't /need/ almost max Defense most of the time anyway. I wouldn't use it on a Reflect variant though.

Mention how Cele can be used to bait opposing Dug into HP Bug so you can Dug it yourself, this is a pretty common tactic used on P2-less [CM] offense teams such as Jabba's.

I think SubSeed deserves its own set, it is such a fucker. BP + Recover should be the main two moves, many players favor it on trap teams. I've seen a few variants with Psychic + HP Grass/Giga Drain and they're also really potent because against offense you can hide behind the Sub while the opponent gets drained and you have the option of being able to pick off a weakened dude.

SD BP practically being its own style of team means it should get a set of its own as well. Agiligross is the best recipient obv. A pure SD sweeper is decent so you can mention that as an alternative to BP, the extra coverage move could be a game-changer. Also I like HP Rock as the choice of attack for those pesky Roar Zapdos who'd otherwise phaze you all day. A lure for Roar Cune is appreciated. Mag is more or less a necessity.

Never thought about Toxic Cele but I'm not really a fan at first glance, what does it do?
 
Don't forget to list Regice as one of the best counters.

Touch on the option of the defensive sets using enough SAtk (100 EVs) to kill 48 SDef Dug with HP Grass (30 SDef IV and 30 SAtk IV assumed), it doesn't /need/ almost max Defense most of the time anyway. I wouldn't use it on a Reflect variant though.

Mention how Cele can be used to bait opposing Dug into HP Bug so you can Dug it yourself, this is a pretty common tactic used on P2-less [CM] offense teams such as Jabba's.

I think SubSeed deserves its own set, it is such a fucker. BP + Recover should be the main two moves, many players favor it on trap teams. I've seen a few variants with Psychic + HP Grass/Giga Drain and they're also really potent because against offense you can hide behind the Sub while the opponent gets drained and you have the option of being able to pick off a weakened dude.

SD BP practically being its own style of team means it should get a set of its own as well. Agiligross is the best recipient obv. A pure SD sweeper is decent so you can mention that as an alternative to BP, the extra coverage move could be a game-changer. Also I like HP Rock as the choice of attack for those pesky Roar Zapdos who'd otherwise phaze you all day. A lure for Roar Cune is appreciated. Mag is more or less a necessity.

Never thought about Toxic Cele but I'm not really a fan at first glance, what does it do?
I had STAB ice which includes regice, articuno etc, but I can definitely go into more detail on that.

I'll definitely add that alternative spread.

I already mentioned under the comments for the offensive set that it can be paired with heracross and dugtrio to allow your dugtrio to trap opposing dugtrio. Do you want me to go into more detail on that?

I originally had those two sets as their own set but thought it was rather long. Do you think this is a problem? Should I cut some stuff out?

I don't think toxic is that great either but I've seen it around, hits stuff like salamence and ttar. It's not common though so I can remove it. That being said do you or anyone have any more ideas for the other options section? With the previous two as their own set and toxic kind of a shaky OO, I think something is needed to make this section stronger.
 
seconding sub seed and sd pass

make a mention of more specially defensive spreads so u can switch into gengar's punch after spikes and sand, or being able to avoid 2hko from offensive cune's +1 ice beam once landing the leech seed. i'm all about that slight specially defensive life.

mention that defensive celebi is huge spikes bait and using it opens up defensive weaknesses in ur squads if u dont have a proactive way to handle spikes
 
Well yeah you do have it but Hera is hardly a necessary component of that strategy. It's definitely good to mention it there because it can pull the same trick for Cele, but more often you'll have Cele taking one for the team so Raikou/Jira/Ttar have an easier time.

I wouldn't mention Toxic unless someone chimes in vouching for it because I'm running scenarios through my head and I can't really see it being worth a moveslot.
 
Give HP Ice a little more credit since aside from luring Mence it also dumps on Flygon while keeping the SE hit on other Cele, but be sure to mention that it's now utterly walled by Steels. I think that's all.
 

Triangles

Big Stew
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion
World Defender
On the two defensive sets, I wouldn't bother creeping Jolly TTar since it doesn't really exist.
Also, I'd always run Leech on the support set - imo dont slash it with Perish Song, keep it in the 3rd slot on its own. Keep the 4th slot as it is.
I agree with everything else Sir and BKC have said. SDPass and SubSeed deserve their own sets.
after that 1/2
 
OP has been updated. If I've forgotten anything or you think some of the EV spreads and move slashes could be fixed a bit, let me know! I've also added bulky cm pass Celebi into the other options section.
 
looks fine, just mention:
- hp grass as an alternative to giga drain on the subseed set
- 20 speed on defensive sets to outrun endeavor swampert and all neutral magneton/metagross
- bp can be slashed in over leech seed on the first set if you have cm (you mentioned a bulky cm passer)
- modest is viable on the offensive cmer
- subseed should probably just hit 270 for hera/cune, anything more is creep
- a sdef spread like the fear one asta posted about should be mentioned for defensive sets

lets get some more opinions from Astamatitos The real UD and whoever else you guys might see fit to tag but imo this is done with those changes, good wor
 

UD

BeerLover
The only thing I might add is that the Pivot set and Support set (aka defensive sets) are basically the same thing. Leech Seed and Recover are mandatory, as is an attack move, and then the last move is one of other attack move/Calm Mind/Heal Bell/Perish Song/Reflect/Baton Pass. Don't know if this is worth making any change over, however.

I agree with BKC that some speed investment might be prudent on the defensive sets. You never know when you might come across a no/minimally invested base 100 that would be nice to use an attack before bailing. I'm thinking specifically of like using Recover vs. an HP Ice SpDef Zapdos (not that it's common) before switching out. You never know what situation might arise in ADV but it's worth a thought.
 
Alright I've gone through and added in you guys' suggestions. I left the bulky cm pass set in OO since i feel like it plays very differently from the standard defensive set but I can move it in there if you guys think it would fit better there. I expanded on some more specially defensive spreads, and put the more all out specially defensive spread in OO. I can add that in the main set if necessary however. I also combined the support and pivot sets into one (admittedly beefy) defensive set, and added dry baton pass as an option for trap teams.
 
Not much to add really. I usually run 300+ speed on subseed Celebi (with 404 HP being mandatory) as that adds another speed tier which you can Seed on the switch and then force out by continually subbing (i'm thinking of Salamence switching in to Celebi) thus getting your Baton Pass off. Timid in that case could be slashed there. VIL's subpass team is a good example of how the set should be described. It sets up Pokemon that become incredibly efficient behind a sub (three attacks focus Punch Gengar, HP Ghost Forretress always gets spin off, DDMence gets extra hit on walls + Spikes damage).

Perish Song also needs a mention somewhere in the analysis (destroys bp chains, pseudo-phazes, its something that the users ought to know when they encounter it), however I tend to not replace Leech Seed with it as I find Celebi loses its S-tier status if its not running Leech Seed. Mention of the chaobreon combo for instance could help new users seeing it first time

Fear can speak more for the SDef variant in today's metagame as well as the dual attack SD (originator of both sets)

dekzeh has certainly used subseed cele a lot more than I have so could share his insights on spread and role
 
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Not much to add really. I usually run 300+ speed on subseed Celebi (with 404 HP being mandatory) as that adds another speed tier which you can Seed on the switch and then force out by continually subbing (i'm thinking of Salamence switching in to Celebi) thus getting your Baton Pass off. Timid in that case could be slashed there. VIL's subpass team is a good example of how the set should be described. It sets up Pokemon that become incredibly efficient behind a sub (three attacks focus Punch Gengar, HP Ghost Forretress always gets spin off, DDMence gets extra hit on walls + Spikes damage).

Perish Song also needs a mention somewhere in the analysis (destroys bp chains, pseudo-phazes, its something that the users ought to know when they encounter it), however I tend to not replace Leech Seed with it as I find Celebi loses its S-tier status if its not running Leech Seed. Mention of the chaobreon combo for instance could help new users seeing it first time

Fear can speak more for the SDef variant in today's metagame as well as the dual attack SD (originator of both sets)

dekzeh has certainly used subseed cele a lot more than I have so could share his insights on spread and role
Alright I've added in all that. Pretty sure I had perish song before, it must have fallen through the cracks when I was combining the two defensive sets, but fixed now!
 

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