Community Create-a-Team 2: M-Lopunny + Lando-T

Thick Fat Azumarill

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Primarina @ Primarium Z
Ability: Torrent
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 108 SpA / 20 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sparkling Aria
- Moonblast
- Perish Song / Encore / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Aqua Jet

Well, since ethan06 asked, here it is! Primarina completes the FWG core with BuluTran, but unlike Fini, it doesn't proc a Terrain change, which lets Heatran take advantage of Grassy Terrain better. The EV spread make Mega Blaziken's High Jump Kick a 3HKO and Thundurus' Thunderbolt a 2HKO. It also has a good shot at surviving itemless Koko's Thunderbolt in Electric Terrain.

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 124 Def Primarina: 78-92 (41.7 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 20 SpD Primarina: 146-174 (78 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 20 SpD Primarina in Electric Terrain: 162-192 (86.6 - 102.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
 
cant say I gotta ask how this whole teambuilding process is going to work. I have a few questions, that should probably be clarified in the first post or something. Like for instance.

- Are we nominating only one team member at a time?
- Are we slowly building these teams over many weeks, or a month, or quickly building them in like a week or two?
- Can we nominate multiple teammates per round? This one stems from seeing only Water types bar my nomination so far, an we obviously can't build a team of 4 Waters and BuluTran
- How long should each phase of building a team take?

That's really all I need to ask because I am totally confused now.
 
This is my first message, so sorry if I make mistakes or if this is a bit off-topic.
I have been trying to play pokemon for a while, both on cartrdige and on showdown.
As I am quite bad at team building and i play mostly bss and bsd, i really liked the idea of this project.
But this creation process seems too slow in my opinion, and I don't know how the problem could be solved.
What do the moderators think about that? Do you also think this is a problem?
I also wanted to say that it would be awesome to have bss and bsd threads in which players post teams they had success with
(with win/rate or battle points achieved for example), in a way that resemble hearthstone decks from a distance (if you are familiar with the game i think you understand what i am trying to say). Is there any hope this can be done in the future?
Of course these are all personal opinions. Sorry if some of this is a bit off-topic.
I really hope this project will end up with a good consistent team to play.
 

Psynergy

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The thing I don't like about starting with BuluTran is that it's a core of two mons with middling Speed that only partially addresses Heatran's problems, and while they mostly cover each other's individual weaknesses there's still plenty of Pokemon that bother both of them. The two approaches that make the most sense to me are 1) address said weaknesses as fully as possible or 2) add a Mega that can at least partially address their weaknesses while offering more offensive pressure that this core wants.

I think a lot of noms so far do a good job of trying to address the former but I think I like the latter approach a little more just because I usually like adding a Mega sooner rather than later in teambuilding. I think Salamence and Gyarados are the ideal choices here since both offer Intimidate support and check Blaziken, but at this stage Gyarados fits a little better.



Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 220 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance

This is a pretty standard Mega Gyarados set, I'm fairly sure those HP EVs are important for something but I don't remember what. I'm sure some people may wonder why there's no Crunch and that's because Crunch is only good for covering Slowbro and Cresselia, and I don't think BuluTran really needs help dealing with either of those. Waterfall already beats Lele at +1, while Earthquake is better for Aegislash and is guaranteed to OHKO Tapu Koko (+1 Waterfall is a roll even with 252 Atk). Ice Fang also lets Gyarados deal with Mega Salamence more easily since otherwise it risks becoming setup bait.

Mega Gyarados doesn't help the Earthquake Salamence matchup very much so a more dedicated Salamence check would be necessary, and it requires a bit of caution against Blaziken but so do most things. Still a really strong Mega to go with Heatran and Tapu Bulu though.
 

cant say

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cant say I gotta ask how this whole teambuilding process is going to work. I have a few questions, that should probably be clarified in the first post or something. Like for instance.
I thought the answers to these questions were pretty obvious in all honesty but I guess I'll answer them ...

- Are we nominating only one team member at a time?
Not necessarily, but it's a lot easier to add one Pokemon at a time after we start with our base core. If you think adding another core is a good idea then nominate it, but I don't think it would get many votes.
- Are we slowly building these teams over many weeks, or a month, or quickly building them in like a week or two?
We need to allow enough time for people to get their nominations in, and then vote on those nominations, which means each stage will last roughly a week. I know it seems slow but doing it faster means a lot of people would miss out on contributing.
- Can we nominate multiple teammates per round? This one stems from seeing only Water types bar my nomination so far, an we obviously can't build a team of 4 Waters and BuluTran
Not sure how this is different from your first question. Also we aren't going to add all these water types that have been nominated, we'll vote on which one to add... Of course you don't have to nominate a Water-type at all, people are just doing that because it's arguable the most logical step in this part of the teambuilding process due to where we started.
- How long should each phase of building a team take?
Again I feel you're repeating something you've already asked. Each phase will likely last around a week

This is my first message, so sorry if I make mistakes or if this is a bit off-topic.
I have been trying to play pokemon for a while, both on cartrdige and on showdown.
As I am quite bad at team building and i play mostly bss and bsd, i really liked the idea of this project.
But this creation process seems too slow in my opinion, and I don't know how the problem could be solved.
What do the moderators think about that? Do you also think this is a problem?
As I explained to Fire Fist Ace above, we aren't able to do it at a faster pace due to the nature of how forums work. If we were doing this while all hanging out in a chatroom like Showdown or Discord then we could do it in an hour, but we aren't. We need to allow time for everyone to get their post in, which means allowing a few days. We may do live teambuilding sessions at some stage but for now this is the best we can do.
I also wanted to say that it would be awesome to have bss and bsd threads in which players post teams they had success with
(with win/rate or battle points achieved for example), in a way that resemble hearthstone decks from a distance (if you are familiar with the game i think you understand what i am trying to say). Is there any hope this can be done in the future?
We already have a BSS Sample Teams Thread and also a BSD one. Unfortunately there aren't many Smogon user teams (yet) so you have to make do with translated Japanese teams. You can also check out the RMT forum and look for teams with the [Battle Spot] tag. There are a few in SM Other Teams and the Team Showcase forums.

Hope this helped both of you.
 
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Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
I like Landorus-Therian over gyarados because they accomplish a lot of similar things but I see Landorus-Therian as the better option for these reasons: It has an overall better typing, leaves the mega slot open, less of a 4MSS problem, U-turn, and is a hard counter to the ever present tapu koko.
This generally makes sense, but it should be noted that Grassy Terrain interferes with Earthquake. Especially if Offensive, losing that power at the wrong time could lead to a game loss.

Seeing as we've got some bulky Pokémon, a defensive, support-based Landorus could get up rocks and reliably switch into threats like Blaziken multiple times.
 
This generally makes sense, but it should be noted that Grassy Terrain interferes with Earthquake. Especially if Offensive, losing that power at the wrong time could lead to a game loss.

Seeing as we've got some bulky Pokémon, a defensive, support-based Landorus could get up rocks and reliably switch into threats like Blaziken multiple times.
I did not know grassy terrain weakened Earthquake and will change my nomination accordingly.
 
I've actually used this Heatran and Tapu Bulu a lot on battle spot singles to some success. I even use Mega Gyarados, which has already been suggested, for checking Mega Lucario. But even then, Blaziken still is a big issue if it has Stone Edge. Mimikyu can get rid of sweepers like Lucario and Blaziken, which counter the core.
mimikyu.png

Mimikyu @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Disguise
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough
 
Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 24 SpD / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
I like Landorus-Therian over gyarados because they accomplish a lot of similar things but I see Landorus-Therian as the better option for these reasons: It has an overall better typing, leaves the mega slot open, less of a 4MSS problem, U-turn, and is a far better way to deal with thunder punch Blazekin. I went Toxic over an attacking move since it is a non offensive set and Superpower was somewhat detrimental in this type of set since it lowers physical stats, doesn't hit hard enough without investment, and doesn't cover anything not already dealt with by se and the rest of the team.
Yes I have changed my set to a bulkier rock setter since it has been brought to my attention that earthquake is weakened in grassy terrain.
 
cant say
Yeah that helped a lot, thank you very much,
I know you people are doing your best and i really appreciate your work.
I would like to help with this thread but unfortunately i don't feel i am good enough to make suggestions.
Keep it going, thx again.
 
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cant say

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There were a few people who said they had ideas they wanted to nominate here so I held off on moving forward but it's been long enough so they can post in the next nomination stage I guess!

Here are our options to add to our BuluTran core:

Gyarados @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 244 Def / 44 Spe
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang
- Toxic
- Taunt

This helps against the scariest mons to the core like Blaziken and Salamence and gives us that clean FWG core. I just copied the spread from the standard defensive Gyara from gen 6 because I actually haven't used this in gen 7 yet. The speed is for stuff like Cresselia with the rest into physical bulk. It obviously doesn't cover all the things I listed above, most notably Thunder Punch Blaziken and Metagross, but I think it's a good start

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 50
EVs: 140 HP / 252 Atk / 116 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Razor Shell
- Hidden Power [Fire]


I would like to nominate Cloyster. Cloyster completes the FWG core by being the team's set up player. Fighting type like Mega Blaziken and Pheromosa can straight up KO Cloyster with High Jump Kick moves but it is almost solved by holding a Focus Sash. Full invested in Attack to maximize its damage output, 116 speed EVs for outspeeding such as Pheromosa without Quiver Dance and Adamant MegaZard X with +1 speed and the rest to HP for general bulk. After Shell Smash, Cloyster can just KO almost everything with Icicle Spear and Razor Shell to mons like Mega Salamence, Landorus Therian, Mimikyu and HP Fire to surprise mons such as Kartana and Ferrothorn. With defensive support from Bulu and Heatran by dwindling the opponents mons making Cloyster's sweep much more easier.

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard / Superpower / Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock / Ice Shard

Alright so out of every threat listed by cant say, Mamoswine takes care of at least 3/4 of them between Icicle Crash and Earthquake by itself. Slap a Focus Sash on it to make sure it lives a hit.

You can either set Rocks and let it eat up your Sash, or try to nuke the Pokemon, let it also eat your Sash, and follow up with Ice Shard on the next turn for almost guaranteed OHKO just about every single time.

Although it may seem counter-intuitive to run Earthquake, you can bring it as a lead or on the tail end of Bulu's terrain to play around G.Terrain softening Earthquake.

The first move for each slashed spot is my recommended move for the set, although they can be toyed around with. Superpower can be used to hit Ferrothorn, opposing Mamoswine, and Tyranitar harder. Stone Edge can be run to guarantee OHKOes on Volcarona or predicted Charzard Y and hit non-Mega Gyarados harder. Otherwise run Ice Shard.

And if Sash is more important on another teammate, you can opt to run Orb or Scarf instead.
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 244 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Sheer Cold
- Roar / Toxic

Physically defensive Suicune. Great defensive tank that completes the fwg core and who synergize pretty well with the other two mons that are more specially defensive oriented.
It offers speed control thanks to Icy Wind, thing that the team definitely needs, and gives a way to phaze out mons with Roar (a lot of top tier threats such as Mence and CharX can set up in front of Bulu and Tran, so this might be good). Plus Sheer Cold is no joke.

The spread is to be as bulky as possible, and to outspeed base 101 (aka Thundurus-T) after an Icy Wind.
Tapu Fini @ Waterium Z
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nature's Madness
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Taunt

I feel like a Water-type is the natural next step to take when you're building around Bulu and Heatran, because FWG is an obvious thing and it creates such a rock solid core with a wide variety of resistances. However, I agree with user Fire Fist Ace when he says that a Ground-type would also be beneficial to the core, so I'm nominating Tapu Fini to give the team some terrain control, so that any future Ground-types we add to the team won't have to worry about their Earthquake being hobbled by Grassy Terrain. Given the bulky/defensive nature of Bulu and Heatran's sets, I'm nominating Offensive Z-Hydro Pump Fini to add some surprise offensive pressure and punch holes in the opposing team. From user cant say's threatlist, Tapu Fini can help in dealing with Mega Blaziken, Mega Salamence, Earthquake Mega Charizard X, and Mamoswine, as well as Pheromosa, Flyinium Z Gyarados / Dragonite / Landorus-T, Excadrill Sand, some Metagross sets, and bulky Waters to a certain extent as well.
Primarina @ Primarium Z
Ability: Torrent
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 108 SpA / 20 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sparkling Aria
- Moonblast
- Perish Song / Encore / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Aqua Jet

Well, since ethan06 asked, here it is! Primarina completes the FWG core with BuluTran, but unlike Fini, it doesn't proc a Terrain change, which lets Heatran take advantage of Grassy Terrain better. The EV spread make Mega Blaziken's High Jump Kick a 3HKO and Thundurus' Thunderbolt a 2HKO. It also has a good shot at surviving itemless Koko's Thunderbolt in Electric Terrain.
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 124 Def Primarina: 78-92 (41.7 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 20 SpD Primarina: 146-174 (78 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 20 SpD Primarina in Electric Terrain: 162-192 (86.6 - 102.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
The thing I don't like about starting with BuluTran is that it's a core of two mons with middling Speed that only partially addresses Heatran's problems, and while they mostly cover each other's individual weaknesses there's still plenty of Pokemon that bother both of them. The two approaches that make the most sense to me are 1)address said weaknesses as fully as possible or 2) add a Mega that can at least partially address their weaknesses while offering more offensive pressure that this core wants.

I think a lot of noms so far do a good job of trying to address the former but I think I like the latter approach a little more just because I usually like adding a Mega sooner rather than later in teambuilding. I think Salamence and Gyarados are the ideal choices here since both offer Intimidate support and check Blaziken, but at this stage Gyarados fits a little better.


Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 220 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance

This is a pretty standard Mega Gyarados set, I'm fairly sure those HP EVs are important for something but I don't remember what. I'm sure some people may wonder why there's no Crunch and that's because Crunch is only good for covering Slowbro and Cresselia, and I don't think BuluTran really needs help dealing with either of those. Waterfall already beats Lele at +1, while Earthquake is better for Aegislash and is guaranteed to OHKO Tapu Koko (+1 Waterfall is a roll even with 252 Atk). Ice Fang also lets Gyarados deal with Mega Salamence more easily since otherwise it risks becoming setup bait.

Mega Gyarados doesn't help the Earthquake Salamence matchup very much so a more dedicated Salamence check would be necessary, and it requires a bit of caution against Blaziken but so do most things. Still a really strong Mega to go with Heatran and Tapu Bulu though.
I've actually used this Heatran and Tapu Bulu a lot on battle spot singles to some success. I even use Mega Gyarados, which has already been suggested, for checking Mega Lucario. But even then, Blaziken still is a big issue if it has Stone Edge. Mimikyu can get rid of sweepers like Lucario and Blaziken, which counter the core.

Mimikyu @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Disguise
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 24 SpD / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
I like Landorus-Therian over gyarados because they accomplish a lot of similar things but I see Landorus-Therian as the better option for these reasons: It has an overall better typing, leaves the mega slot open, less of a 4MSS problem, U-turn, and is a far better way to deal with thunder punch Blazekin. I went Toxic over an attacking move since it is a non offensive set and Superpower was somewhat detrimental in this type of set since it lowers physical stats, doesn't hit hard enough without investment, and doesn't cover anything not already dealt with by se and the rest of the team.
Yes I have changed my set to a bulkier rock setter since it has been brought to my attention that earthquake is weakened in grassy terrain.


-------------------------

Put your vote in bold and try to explain why you like it

For my vote, I'm gonna go with Psynergy's Mega Gyarados. I was hoping someone would nominate Mega Salamence or Toxapex which I would have voted for, but since neither were this is what I'm liking the most. It's got great offensive coverage, defensive utility in Intimidate, and nice type synergy with the existing core.
 
cant say's defensive gyara
Would've voted for Psy's cause i think mega gyara can fit pretty well here, but i feel like deciding the mega now would take away some hype
 
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Voting for Solerme's defensive Suicune

I feel like this team will turn out to be on the slow side of things so some sort of speed control would be greatly appreciated. Plus, it doesn't stack up any weaknesses, unlike Primarina and Tapu Finimy would-be second choices.
 
I think that voting for Primarina or Tapu Fini is a terrible idea seeing how bulutran already hates dealing with any Greninja with gunk shot + hydro pump / low kick, and that combo destroys our current core, and adding another mon weak to Greninja is a terrible idea because that limits teambuilding to mons that aren't weak to Greninja, which is very hard to do considering the crazy coverage that gren has (not to mention the fact it can run 2 moves to check 3 mons). Additionally, a FWG core, while a really good idea with bulutran, should not be 3-0'd by a single mon that is fairly common.

Putting this into consideration Psynergy's Mega Gyarados is my vote because Gyarados is something that Greninja can't beat straight up, and Gyarados helps against a good amount of the threats that bulu tran faces.
 
Solerme's Suicune for the same reasons mentioned above by Johta. It simply is imo better for this composition than Prima/Fini.
 

cant say

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ok voting's done! with a late comeback from psynergy, the results are:


Psynergy's Mega Gyarados: 4
Solerme's Suicune: 3
TFA's Primarina: 3
cant say's Defensive Gyara: 1​


Which means our current team is Tapu Bulu, Heatran, and Mega Gyarados! So we got out FWG core, how do we move on from here? Do we add more Pokemon that support this primary core? Or do we start looking at a secondary core? We don't have much physical bulk outside Gyarados' Intimidate so perhaps we add a physical tank. We could also add a Dragon to our Steel/Fairy core too. Have we addressed all the threats I posted about back here? Or does Mega Gyara cover all of them adequately? Has adding Mega Gyarados added more threats to worry about? I'm excited to see what people think.

------------
I guess I'll get right to my nomination. I still see quite a bit of a Mega Blaziken / general physical attacker weakness. I also like the look of dragon/steel/fairy + fire/water/grass so in an effort to accomplish those in one slot I present:


Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 88 SpA / 20 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast / Toxic
- Cotton Guard
- Roost


I just made this set up, it could be bad. The EV spread ensures that you live an unboosted Double-Edge from adamant Mega Salamence, Cotton Guard, live the second Double-Edge and Roost back. The SpD is so we aren't 2HKOed by Charizard Y but that doesn't really matter if we aren't using Toxic. It may be better to use Fire Blast and dump more EVs into SpA because Heatran usually walls Charizard Y anyway. Cotton Guard is so sick because you outboost even Swords Dance users so they don't overwhelm you. The thought process behind Cloud Nine is we can take less damage when switching into Charizard Y, but doesn't benefit us against Excadrill / Swampert / Kingdra so it may be worth using Natural Cure as a status absorber if needed.

252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Mega Altaria: 108-127 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. +3 252 HP / 148+ Def Mega Altaria: 43-52 (23.6 - 28.5%) -- 96.5% chance to 4HKO
88 SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 156-186 (91.2 - 108.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Mega Altaria: 52-62 (28.5 - 34%) -- 1.4% chance to 3HKO
88 SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blaziken: 85-102 (54.8 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 20 SpD Mega Altaria in Sun: 76-90 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 20 SpD Mega Altaria: 76-90 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
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Thick Fat Azumarill

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Cresselia @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 236 Def / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Toxic / Thunder Wave / Lunar Dance / Trick Room
- Moonlight

As it stands now, the team is very weak to Mega Blaziken, and has a hard time dealing with some boosted threats, like Mega Salamence. Cresselia is a realiable answer to both, having the bulk to take them on. Moves are very standard, and the choice of the filler move comes down to preference. Toxic and Thunder Wave both cripple the opposing mon, Lunar Dance can be used to bring a partner back from the brink after the opposing team has been weakened to finish its job, and Trick Room can be used against offensive teams to turn their speed against them.

The EV spread aims to be as bulky as possible while also trying to get the jump on Tapu Fini, so you can get your support moves or recovery off before its Taunt.
 
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