Dhelmise [QC 2/3] Written

[Overview]

Thanks to Steelworker, Dhelmise is the only Pokemon in the game that technically has three STABs, and coupled with a massive base attack and you have a Pokemon that is capable of dishing out boatloads of damage. Dhelmise also does a great job at spinblocking, since it has a fair amount of natural bulk and can deep six most other spinners thanks to a typing that covers most of the relevant ones in the tier. It does get Rapid Spin itself as well and is capable of scaring out Ghost types who would otherwise try to prevent it from spinning. However much like its apperance suggests, Dhelmise has an incredibly slow base speed, meaning it does need to be careful how it comes in since it is likely to take two attacks before it can act. To make things even worse it also has a very shallow movepool and as a result is mostly limited to its STABs.

[Set]

name: Choice Band
move 1: Shadow Claw
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Heavy Slam
move 4: Earthquake
item: Choice Band
ability: Steelworker
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]
Moves
========

Shadow Claw has great neutral coverage and wrecks opposing Doublade as well as lets it have a shot at beating Escavalier. Power Whip is one of Dhelmise's highest damage move and lets it demolish Water and Ground types as well as tear holes into anything that doesn't resist. Heavy Slam takes advantage of Dhemise's understandably massive weight to bury any Fairy type in the game unlucky enough to face it while having a great chance to OHKO most Dark types that switch in on it. Earthquake is the best of Dhelmise's slim pickings in terms of coverage, and it allows Dhelmise to deal great damage to opposing Steel types, such as Registeel, and Dragalge.

Set Details
========

Max Attack Adamant with a Choice Band gives Dhelmise an absurd amount of power, making it hard to switch in as a resisted hit can still leave the switch-in reeling. Max speed guarantees that it will outspeed most Umbreon, which is a 2HKO with Power Whip and Heavy Slam.


Usage Tips
========

Thanks to Choice Band, Dhelmise is surprisingly hard to switch in on due to the fact that clicking a move in anticipation of a switch can net a free KO on a Pokemon that would otherwise threaten Dhelmise. This means that while getting Dhelmise on the field in the early game can be tricky, it is capable of pulling you ahead with a surprise KO.


Team Options
========

Fire types are able to melt Steel types that could otherwise prove a problem for Dhelmise, while Dhelmise can easily handle most Pokemon, namely Water and Rock types, that would douse them. Additionally, Sharpedo and other offensive Water types go well with Dhelmise, since it is able to break apart bulky Water types that would otherwise wall them.

name: Offensive Spinner
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Shadow Claw
move 3: Power Whip
move 4: Heavy Slam / Swords Dance
item: Ghostium-Z / Spooky Plate
ability: Steelworker
nature: Adamant
evs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Rapid Spin is the main draw of this set, giving Dhelmise the utility of clearing away hazards on your side of the field. Shadow Claw and Power Whip are Dhelmise's STAB moves, allowing it to use its massive attack stat to still hit opponents hard if needed. For the last move you can run Heavy Slam for another attacking option or Swords Dance, which can allow Dhelmise to shatter Pokemon that would attempt to switch in and wall.

Set Details
========

84 Speed allows you to outspeed neutral base 50 speed Pokemon, while 204 speed will let you outrun Umbreon, which would otherwise be able to OHKO you with a Foul Play. Ghostium-Z lets you burst past opposing Doublade, while also reducing Knock Off's power to survivable levels. Spooky Plate is a general buff to Shadow Claw's damage and will 2HKO Doublade after Spikes damage.

Usage Tips
========

Dhelmise is capable of coming in on many common rockers and several Water Pokemon, giving it a chance to use Rapid Spin as the opponent makes a switch. Once hazards have been removed, Dhelmise is capable of using its high damage capabilities to deal heavy blows to its opponents.

Team Options
========

Rock weak sweepers, such as Moltres and Salazzle, appreciate Dhelmise's spinning set as it can remove Stealth Rocks for them, allowing them to come in without worry. Additionally, Dhelmise is capable of handling types that would pose problems for them, notably Rock types, while they can melt Steel types that would otherwise easily wall Dhelmise. Gigalith on the other hand is able to help out Dhelmise by dealing with Fire types that would otherwise roast it. Meanwhile Gigalith appreciates having a partner that can force out Water types that would like to put a damper on Gigalith's ability to set up Rocks, espcially one that is capable of blocking opposing Rapid Spins.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Another option is to use Substitute and Swords Dance for a Stallbreaker set that is capable of allowing Dhelmise to set up in front of Pokemon like Registeel, umbreon, and Quagsire. Anchor Shot is an option to use instead of Heavy Slam, however there are some things to note. For one, it is unable to KO all Fairy-types in the format and misses out on a few other important KOs, but will guarentee a OHKO against any Ice type that switches in on it. Additionally, it does outdamage Heavy Slam when used on Pokemon that weigh more than 115.75lbs (52.5kg), however a lot of them, such as Venusaur and Kommo-o, do not mind taking Steel type attacks too much. Anchor Shot is capable of running alongside Rest and Swords Dance as another method of Stallbreaking, since it would allow you to freely take the time to bust down most walls it traps.

Checks and Counters
===================

Offensive Pressure: Because of Dhelmise's low speed and lack of recovery, it is highly susceptible to offensive pressure, since it will usually be forced to take a hit or two before it can get an attack in. Super Effective coverage moves in general work against Dhelmise as a result, with the Rapid Spin set requiring care due to the chip damage it takes from switching into hazards. That said, Dhemise's ability to fire off crushing blows shouldn't be underestimated as it is capable of knocking out many pokemon in one or two hits, depending on if the switches are predicted correctly.

Moltres: Moltres is one of a few Pokemon that is capable on switching in pretty freely on Dhelmise as it takes little damage from Power Whip and Heavy Slam while surviving a Shadow Claw comfortably before scoring a KO with Hurricane or Fire Blast.

Torkoal: Torkoal is notably the only Stealth Rock user that can handle Dhelmise well, due to its high defense and typing. Outside of Earthquake or Choice Band Shadow Claw, Torkoal can shrug off anything that Dhelmise is capable of throwing at it and can respond with Lava Plume, a move that has a decent chance to cripple with a Burn as well as scoring a 2HKO against Dhelmise.

Dark Type Pokemon: Most Dark type Pokemon can easily score a OHKO on Dhelmise, especially with some prior damage, and will generally be able to attack first. However, as mentioned previously, some caution must be exercised as a Dhelmise could devestate the switch in with a Power Whip or Heavy Slam, leading to a quick loss of a would-be counter. Additionally, a Dhelmise running Ghostium-Z will survive a Knock Off and be able to retaliate back.
 
Last edited:

aVocado

@ Everstone
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Let me know if this is good enough to move on to the next stage.
That's something you should be the judge for, but yeah it looks good enough to be taken out of WIP, based on the amount of stuff you've written cuz I haven't actually read it yet
 

MrAldo

Hey
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
So it has been exactly 2 months since this analyses has been stucked in bay, OMG.

- First things first. The order of the sets must be changed. The wallbreaker makes for an overall better set on the current meta. Please change the order.

- In Overview you mention the benefits of the ghost/grass typing, benefits on the offensive, but you should also mention his sluggish speed in conjunction with the multiple weaknesses can be a problem for it. Also remove the multiple part on spinning, it fits on offense but only gets to spin a couple of times at most in practice.

- Remove assault vest on the slashes for the spinner set. Make Ghostium-Z the main slash and spooky plate the second. Mention that with Ghostium-Z it has an easier time getting past doublade to spin, and spooky plate as the alternative you mention how it allow dhelmise to always 2hko doublade after spikes damage. You can probably send Assault Vest to other options tho, instead of Ghostium.

- Rapid Spin should be the first move on the spinner set since... in main role is spinning. Also mention Heavy Slam can also target Shaymin, netting a solid 2hko on it.

- On Usage tips for the spin set, mention it can force out Pokemon like Rhyperior, Diancie, Seismitoad and other water types and this is where it can find an opportunity to spin.

- On the spinner set, under set details, mention it can run the same spread the wallbreaker set uses (52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe) to nail Umbreon since it is still a solid 2hko. Also remove Vaporeon mention.

- Id just run max speed on the wallbreaker set since it still gets the jump on mantine and you can demolish those before they are attempt to air slash you or scald burn you.

- Checks and counters section is badly formatted. It should be like this **X Pokemon**. Also offensive pressure is the best way to beat this so mention stuff that can KO it. Dark-types, Pokemon with super effective coverage, fire types like salazzle, stuff like that. Some steel-types can lose to Dhelmise due to the possibility of SD sets and never ending nightmare doing a fuck load, and foul play alonedoesnt cut it as a check/counter. Expand on this section a lot more.

- Mention offensive waters like Sharpedo as partners for both sets since they appreciate Dhelmise pressuring bulky waters and stuff like porygon2. Can mention Pokemon like Cloyster, the aformentioned Sharpedo, etc.

You have some work to do and Im sorry it took ages to check this so I will take the task of following the development of this thread. Tag me when you cover this, take your time.
 
Earthquake is also for Steel-types like Registeel as it is your strongest option vs. them (with the exception of neutral targets such as escavalier). Mention SubSd in OO, that set can do really well vs. stall since registeel cannot touch you behind a sub and you can do massive damage to Umbreon and quag. I don't like the c&c being completely compressed into one section called "offensive pressure," it just seems to generalized and doesn't really offer that much specific information other than "x super effective coverage deals with it". Try to expand on that with specific fast threats such as Moltres which can take a Power Whip easily or even Shadow Claw and proceed to KO in return. Dhelmise is super slow so that's one of the main reasons it's not that difficult to deal with. Otherwise I can't see too much to add here, it's a pretty straightforward mon.

QC 2/3
 

teachable

Banned deucer.
Hey, just some stuff I noticed. Don't feel the need to implement anything unless QC says so.
Overall pretty good, didn't touch too much grammar related stuff but you might want to give this another look over in that regard before you end up moving to GP.

[Overview]
  • Possibly try to fit in a mention of how it is often forced to kill the spinblocker and afterwards left unable to spin? "Not a great spinner, but not an awful Pokemon" type thing.
[Choice Band]
========
  • "deal great damage to opposing Steel types, such as Registeel, and Dragalge." almost sounds like Dragalge is a Steel-type. Maybe try to reword this into something about "Pokemon that resist Dhelmise's STABs", although I think you'd need another pokemon to mention as Dragalge is already OHKO'd by Shadow Claw. Maybe Torkoal? You mention EQ when you mention it in Checks/Counters.
Set Details
========
  • "which is a 2HKO with Power Whip and Heavy Slam." to "which allows Dhelmise to 2HKO it with Power Whip and Heavy Slam." Otherwise, good; not much to say.
Usage Tips
========
  • The wording on this first sentence is a little hard to follow, I get what you're trying to say but maybe describe it simpler ("with good prediction skills, Dhelmise is hard to switch into").
Team Options
========
  • Mention some specific Fire-type Pokemon (Probably Rotom-H?).
  • What Steel-types? I'm guessing Escav/Durant are the main ones that you don't threaten with EQ/Shadow Claw, so mention them.
  • You mentioned it having a hard time getting in, maybe mention some Pokemon able to pivot it in like U-turn (Gligar, Flygon) or Volt Switch users (Rotom-H).
  • Mention another offensive water type, like Gatr maybe, and mention what Water-types Dhelmise is forcing out or breaking (Milotic?).
[Offensive Spinner]
  • Put [Set] above "name: Offensive Spinner".
[SET COMMENTS]
  • Mention how STAB Shadow Claw allows you to OHKO most (All?) would-be spinblockers.
Set Details
========
  • What base 50 speed pokemon? (I know Regi, but mention it/others).
  • Mention how +2 Power Whip can OHKO Umbreon. ("will allow you to outrun and OHKO Umbreon with a +2 Power Whip, which..").
Usage Tips
========
  • What water pokemon? Mention that it is scared of getting burned from Scald.
Team Options
========
  • Mention Specific Rock-types that it weakens, like Gigalith, for Salazzle/Moltres.
  • Mention what Water-types give Gigalith trouble that Dhelmise is forcing out.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • You're not setting up in front of Umbreon unless you get a Sub on the switch; If that's what you meant, maybe mention that it helps ease pressure in regards to prediction. Otherwise, pretty good write up on Anchor Shot.
Checks and Counters
===================
  • Moltres/Torkoal should probably be compressed to "Fire-types"? You can fit a mention with some other moves in there.
  • Mention some Specific Dark-type Pokemon, like Umbreon, Zoroark, or Sharpedo. You can mention how some of them can't really switch directly into you.
 

phantom

Banned deucer.
Project_Mars given the state of the meta, much of this analysis is sorely outdated. With Decidueye now in RU, the current Dhelmise sets are obsolete (which is why QC has been avoiding this analysis). However, it's still viable and we'd like to give it an analysis, but with a completely different set that maximizes its niche as a bulky spinner. The following set is the one that should be on the analysis:

Dhelmise @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- Anchor Shot / Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Rest

If you'd still like to work on this analysis and redo it, that's fine, but if you want to drop it, do let me know. Please respond in the next 48 hours or I'll assume you're uninterested in reworking the analysis.
 

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