Litten, Torracat, Incineroar Discussion

Nexus

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Litten
Fire
Abilities: Blaze/Intimidate
HP: 45
Atk: 65
Def: 40
SpAtk: 60
SpDef: 40
Spe: 70
Total BST: 320

Egg Moves:

Nasty Plot
body Slam
Crunch
Fake Out
Revenge
Heat Wave

Level Up:

[Lv 1] Scratch, Ember
[Lv 4] Growl
[Lv 8] Lick
[Lv 11] Leer
[Lv 15] Fire Fang
[Lv 18] Roar
[Lv 22] Bite
[Lv 25] Swagger
[Lv 29] Fury Swipes
[Lv 32] Thrash
[Lv 36] Flamethrower
[Lv 39] Scary Face
[Lv 43] Flare Blitz
[Lv 46] Outrage

TM's:

Work Up
Roar
Toxic
Bulk Up
Hidden Power
Sunny Day
Taunt
Protect
Fustration
Return
Leech Life
Double Team
Flamethower
Fire Blast
Torment
Facade
Flame Charge
Rest
Attract
Round
Overheat
Will-O-Wisp
Acrobatics
Shadow Claw
Swords Dance
Swagger
Sleep Talk
U-turn
Substitute
Confide


Tutor:
Blast Burn





Torracat
Fire
Abilities: Blaze/Intimidate
HP: 65
Atk: 85
Def: 50
SpAtk: 80
SpDef: 50
Spe: 90
Total BST: 420

Egg Moves:

Nasty Plot
body Slam
Crunch
Fake Out
Revenge
Heat Wave

Level Up:

[Lv 1] Scratch, Ember, Growl, Lick
[Lv 4] Growl
[Lv 8] Lick
[Lv 11] Leer
[Lv 15] Fire Fang
[Lv 19] Roar
[Lv 24] Bite
[Lv 28] Swagger
[Lv 33] Fury Swipes
[Lv 37] Thrash
[Lv 42] Flamethrower
[Lv 46] Scary Face
[Lv 51] Flare Blitz
[Lv 55] Outrage

TM's:

Work Up
Roar
Toxic
Bulk Up
Hidden Power
Sunny Day
Taunt
Protect
Fustration
Return
Leech Life
Double Team
Flamethower
Fire Blast
Torment
Facade
Flame Charge
Rest
Attract
Round
Overheat
Will-O-Wisp
Acrobatics
Shadow Claw
Swords Dance
Swagger
Sleep Talk
U-turn
Substitute
Confide

Tutor:
Blast Burn




Incineroar
Fire/Dark
Abilities: Blaze/Intimidate
HP: 95
Atk: 115
Def: 90
SpAtk: 80
SpDef: 90
Spe: 60
Total BST: 530

Egg Moves:

Nasty Plot
body Slam
Crunch
Fake Out
Revenge
Heat Wave

Level Up:

[Lv 0] Darkest Lariat
[Lv 1] Darkest Lariat, Bulk Up, Throat Chop, Scratch, Ember, Growl, Lick
[Lv 4] Growl
[Lv 8] Lick
[Lv 11] Leer
[Lv 15] Fire Fang
[Lv 19] Roar
[Lv 24] Bite
[Lv 28] Swagger
[Lv 33] Fury Swipes
[Lv 38] Thrash
[Lv 44] Flamethrower
[Lv 49] Scary Face
[Lv 55] Flare Blitz
[Lv 60] Outrage
[Lv 66] Cross Chop

TM's:

Work Up
Roar
Toxic
Bulk Up
Hidden Power
Sunny Day
Taunt
Hyper Beam
Protect
Fustration
Return
Earthquake
Leech Life
Brick Break
Double Team
Flamethower
Fire Blast
Torment
Facade
Flame Charge
Rest
Attract
Low Sweep
Round
Overheat
Focus Blast
Fling
[TM 59] Brutal Swing
Quash
Will-O-Wisp
Acrobatics
Embargo
Shadow Claw
Giga Impact
Swords Dance
Bulldoze
Swagger
Sleep Talk
U-turn
Substitute
Snarl
Dark Pulse
Confide


Tutor:
Blast Burn
Fire Pledge


New Moves

Darkest Lariat: The user swings both arms and hits the target. The target's stat changes don't affect this attack's damage. 100% Accuracy [Dark] 85 BP, Physical.

Throat Chop: The user attacks the target's throat, and the resultant suffering prevents the target from using moves that emit sound for two turns. 100% Accuracy [Dark] 80 BP, Physical.

New TM(s)
Brutal Swing: The user swings its body around violently to inflict damage on everything in its vicinity. 100% Accuracy [Dark] 60 BP, Physical.
 
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While base 60 speed is unfortunate, its solid 115 Attack combined with rather surprising bulk, HA in Intimidate, access to Bulk Up, Swords Dance, a buffed Leech Life and various Fighting moves, this guy can dish out serious damage while taking hits like a champ. Plus it has Flame Charge to patch up its speed, so that could help.

All in all, I'm satisfied with Incineroar. All hail our new bara cat overlord.
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
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Muh Speed... why did you crash muh speed? It's even slower than Emboar ffs.

That said, looking at it I think the best set will be a bulky set with Wisp that utilizes Intimidate. Incineroar gets a lot of options that stop Stall cold. Most interesting is the fact Throat Chop is basically a massive troll move against Liquid Voice Primarina. Too bad it needs Hidden Power to even hit it competently for neutral or better damage otherwise (Return, I guess?)

In VGC it might be pretty good though with Intimidate, Fake Out, and Throat Chop to stop Ate-Hyper Voices.
 
With M-Garde/Mence/Altaria out of the picture in 2017 the only other major ate hyper voice spammer is Sylveon, which he conveniently speed ties with. I think he was definitely designed with VGC usage in mind, he's quite similar to bulky Arcanine except he trades reliable recovery for other utility moves like fake out and throat chop. Just as with Arcanine snarl/WoW turn his respectable defenses into good ones in short order. He's in that middling speed tier where trick room doesn't hugely help him but doesn't really hurt him either.
 
Fake Out + Intimidate is going to make this thing see usage, ooh man. I'm super excited to try this thing out in BSS / VGC 2017 etc. Hitmontop's seen usage for years thanks to that combo, as has Scrafty though it always had the problem of not having enough power to kill anything. Not only does Incineroar have pretty solid offenses, its Special Attack is high enough to the point where things like Overheat and Snarl aren't out of the conversation and an intimidate user not affected by intimidate themselves is pretty nice.

Let's just hope the HA is somewhat easy to access like in XY and not a 4 year long blueball like what the Johto and Unova starts did.
 

Theorymon

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Fake Out + Intimidate is going to make this thing see usage, ooh man. I'm super excited to try this thing out in BSS / VGC 2017 etc. Hitmontop's seen usage for years thanks to that combo, as has Scrafty though it always had the problem of not having enough power to kill anything. Not only does Incineroar have pretty solid offenses, its Special Attack is high enough to the point where things like Overheat and Snarl aren't out of the conversation and an intimidate user not affected by intimidate themselves is pretty nice.

Let's just hope the HA is somewhat easy to access like in XY and not a 4 year long blueball like what the Johto and Unova starts did.
As I mentioned on Discord, the low speed might be a bit of a blessing here too, since you could pair Incineroar up with a Trick Roomer, and since it has a good Attack stat, it can actually deal some good damage too! However, it is much more vulnerable to weather like Drizzle, and depending on how good Tapu Lele is, might want to pair it with another Tapu to get rid of Psychic terrain.

Not gonna lie though, I'm not super interested in this outside of VGC and Battle Spot Doubles however, the idea of a bulky Dark Fire becomes less appealing when a lot of Incineroar's most interesting tools outside of Intimidate seem geared towards Doubles.
 
Well, it has better defenses than Arcanine, so an AV set may be interesting since it gets Fake Out and Snarl, two good support moves in Doubles. Or it could run leftovers or something and enjoy being able to spread Will 'O Wisp or (a slow) Taunt.

And if it is anything like XY, you can get HA starters in-game, most likely via Poke Pelago. Intimidate is a generically good ability, so Inceniroar has that going for it, which is nice.
 
I'm actually happy about this thing getting bulky instead of fast. Just from a purely flavor point of view, fast and frail Fire starters has gotten stale for me and I'd actually like one to at least look like it's bulky. I'm super eager to try a defensive set on this once the games are out everything is revealed.
 
Dark/Fire has some valuable resistances actually, and this thing has quite respectable bulk. Being able to hard stop Bisharp is nice, and access to Wisp and Intimidate is good.

Might see a niche in OU like defensive Infernape.
 
I was initially disappointed with its speed tier, but all this talk about it becoming a defensive Fire-type that can dish out damage makes me quite pleased with it. It's pretty much a better defensively built Arcanine with an added Dark type to keep things interesting. Intimidate as an HA is really nice too, and decent SpA means it doesn't always need to use its Attack stat to deal damage.

All hail Luchalitten!
 
Solid as fuck. Great defensive prowess, plus decent support movepool. Seems to be more useful in Doubles than Singles to be honest, but aside from low speed its no slouch there either.
 

PK Gaming

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Fire / Dark is pretty fearsome offensively, and it's got Cross Chop to literally cover the Pokemon that resist that combination. U-turn too, so it's game for Choice sets and its support movepool is surprisingly good. Speed is disappointing, but at the end of the day 95/90/90 Defenses with Intimidate is sexy. It's doubtful it will end up in OU, but i'm positive it'll be able to perform at least adequately there (and it'll for sure rock the lower tiers)

INCINEROAR 4 LYFE
 
Fire / Dark is pretty fearsome offensively, and it's got Cross Chop to literally cover the Pokemon that resist that combination. U-turn too, so it's game for Choice sets and its support movepool is surprisingly good. Speed is disappointing, but at the end of the day 95/90/90 Defenses with Intimidate is sexy. It's doubtful it will end up in OU, but i'm positive it'll be able to perform at least adequately there (and it'll for sure rock the lower tiers)

INCINEROAR 4 LYFE
It's probably not going to end up OU on usage but it DEFINITELY has a niche as a great Bisharp, Scizor, and Weavile counter/check (honestly dark types in general, because 95/90 on the special side is nothing to laugh at).

No reliable recovery sucks, but still, being able to run Wisp, U-Turn, and coverage is solid for a defensive mon.
 

Pikachu315111

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Ugh, 60 Speed? Well at least it has high Attack and surprisingly good bulk. It's like they're trying to make up for Emboar.

It has solid STABS plus Thrash, Outrage, Cross Chop, Earthquake, Acrobatics, Shadow Claw, and U-turn. Wait, it also gets Leech Life? Okay, odd. Definitely an all out Pokemon.

EDIT: Leech Life is 80 Power!? So, I guess Litten has a potential healing move after all.
 
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No... they named falling on your opponent body slam, and they named a literal body slam submission.

They just don't know anything about wrestling moves.
Gen 1 translators were not the same quality as current ones. There was a LOT of engrish/mistranslations in Gen 1 due to the company being smaller and more modest, and games in general didn't have professional language people doing translations. Growl was supposed to be like "meow" or "purr" (You don't growl cutely, you growl ferociously) Tail Whip is supposed to be Tail Wag. And SPLASH was supposed to be Hop.

This whole wrestling move debacle is due to alliteration. They tend to use Alliteration or Rhyming for most of the Z-Moves. Breakneck Blitz, Neverending Nightmare, Malicious Moonsault etc. This is not the first time they sacrificed translation accuracy for "clever" ability/move names.
 
Gen 1 translators were not the same quality as current ones. There was a LOT of engrish/mistranslations in Gen 1 due to the company being smaller and more modest, and games in general didn't have professional language people doing translations. Growl was supposed to be like "meow" or "purr" (You don't growl cutely, you growl ferociously) Tail Whip is supposed to be Tail Wag. And SPLASH was supposed to be Hop.

This whole wrestling move debacle is due to alliteration. They tend to use Alliteration or Rhyming for most of the Z-Moves. Breakneck Blitz, Neverending Nightmare, Malicious Moonsault etc. This is not the first time they sacrificed translation accuracy for "clever" ability/move names.
How about Spiteful Splash, or Fearsome Firebird?

They both work while keeping the name of the actual move.
Which is 450 Splash or Firebird Splash.
 
If this got Knock Off, it'd be top tier UU material with an SD set or even an AV Wallbreaker set. I expect to see it used alongside TR setters in Doubles.
 
How about Spiteful Splash, or Fearsome Firebird?

They both work while keeping the name of the actual move.
Which is 450 Splash or Firebird Splash.
I'm not defending them, I'm just saying they wanted to use alliteration, screwed up the accuracy of the translation in the process. Like Sucker Punch/Surprise Attack. It's TECHNICALLY correct, but Sucker Punch is not a punch and the game mechanics lost clarity due to their "clever" translation.
 
Woah this pokemon is way bulkier than I expected it to be. It definitely has some potential as a offensive and defensive threat. I think a choice scarf set will be one of its best sets, its speed is a major let down. Bulky CB could work to. It will see some use in the mid to lower tiers but its not a top of the line pokemon.
 
I'm not really seeing a Scarf set being all that good for Incineroar since even with max speed it only hits 360 speed which is not that high.. On the otherhand it's defensive stats make it a nice bulky pivot and dark counter as most people have concluded, which seems to be the best bet for it right now. I can't wait til Intimidate can be acquired on this.
 
its too slow for scarf...but in VGC with intimidate and fake out itll be pretty good. Something like Fake Out/EQ/Sucker Punch/Flare Blitz with AV um...yeah this thing isnt that bad. Everyone at first was kinda disappointed with the stats of the starters but at the very least Incineroar and Prim will get work down in UU.
 

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