M&M Mix and Mega

Oh hey Houndoomite Torkoal. STAB Sun-Boosted Solar Power Fire Blast from what, 115 special attack? Not the greatest special attack stats but that could go far with all those boosts. Also Pidgeotite Drampa cuz Draco Meteor, Thunder, Hurricane, and Focus Blast! Lots of not great accuracy moves but Drampa gets them and Pidgeotite make sure sure they don't miss.
 
Drampa seems to be too slow... And even for TR teams, there are better, stronger and much bulkier mons like Mewtwonite X Tapu Bulu (210 Att, Grassy Terrain boosted Horn Leech/Wood Hammer, STAB Superpower), Garchompite Ttar (174 att with the nice Sand Stream -> Sand Force combo) , Blue Orb Golisopod, Cameruptite Volcanion (Cameruptite still unreleased, but it has 170 SpAtt, Sheer Force with Steam Eruption, Fire Blast, Earth Power, Focus Blast, Sludge Wave...) and others...
 
Hi guys ! This is my fist post on Smogon so please be understanding.
I'm bringing here a set I'm using on the Mix and Megas ladder and I'd like to have your opinion on this. I saw a lot of people complaining about Skymin in the actual metagame and here's an original check and not a counter (the only real reson is sleep but any synchronize / magic bounce / soundproof? mon can handle this)

Hariyama @ Pinsirite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Feint
- Return
- Close Combat

Let's take a closer look at this :
144 / 80 / 80 bulk after mega evolved is quite good and hariyama can takes some hits before it dies. On top of that the flying type granted by the pinsirite makes it resistant to Skymin most spamed STAB : magical leaf seed flare. It also is immune to earth power wich is Skymin most used coverage move.
Then what's about offensive presence ?
150 base atk and 70 base speed are enough for what this set ambitions to do.
The movepool should remind you another one. It's almost the same as weavile @ glalitite. Fake out + feint for the double priority (out priorities extreme speed users, looking at you genesect @ pinsirite) and then return and close combat for the double STAB with nice neutral coverage.

Because I'm too lazy to bring you some calcs I brought you 3 replays
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-576236421
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-575791287
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-576622025
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-576622025
As you can see in the replays, one dangerous revenge killer is weavile. That's why I play this set with Jirachy @ Audinite and u-turn. Weavile is now an occasion of grabing momentum or heal/support with wish. Then the third mon of the core I use is Nihilego @ Slowbronite. It gets the toxic spikes on the field without being too passive and doesn't stop the core to force switchs. Toxic spikes is my favourite option since no one has levitate (well not the whole game) and pinsirite users are weak to poison (bar genesct). Of course nihilego isn't mold breaker but it doesn't matter too much for the core effectiveness because the whole core is imune to t-spikes. I can give the core importable if someone is interested.
In conclusion, you may find other checks to skymin with more switch-in opportunities (zapdos comes to my mind) but this one is still very usable and if brought in correctly, it wins most 1v1 vs other sweepers. I recomand to play it with hazards on the field to make profit of the switchs fake out will occur.

Well thanks for reading I'm waiting for your feedbacks and please don't hesitate to correct my english.
 
Last edited:
Hi guys ! This is my fist post on Smogon so please be understanding.
I'm bringing here a set I'm using on the Mix and Megas ladder and I'd like to have your opinion on this. I saw a lot of people complaining about Skymin in the actual metagame and here's an original check and not a counter (the only real reson is sleep but any synchronize / magic bounce / soundproof? mon can handle this)

Hariyama @ Pinsirite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Feint
- Return
- Close Combat

Let's take a closer look at this :
144 / 80 / 80 bulk after mega evolved is quite good and hariyama can takes some hits before it dies. On top of that the flying type granted by the pinsirite makes it resistant to Skymin most spamed STAB : magical leaf seed flare. It also is immune to earth power wich is Skymin most used coverage move.
Then what's about offensive presence ?
150 base atk and 70 base speed are enough for what this set ambitions to do.
The movepool should remind you another one. It's almost the same as weavile @ glalitite. Fake out + feint for the double priority (out priorities extreme speed users, looking at you genesect @ pinsirite) and then return and close combat for the double STAB with nice neutral coverage.

Because I'm too lazy to bring you some calcs I brought you 3 replays
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-576236421
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-575791287
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-576622025
As you can see in the replays, one dangerous revenge killer is weavile. That's why I play this set with Jirachy @ Audinite and u-turn. Weavile is now an occasion of grabing momentum or heal/support with wish. Then the third mon of the core I use is Nihilego @ Slowbronite. It gets the toxic spikes on the field without being too passive and doesn't stop the core to force switchs. Toxic spikes is my favourite option since no one has levitate (well not the whole game) and pinsirite users are weak to poison (bar genesct). Of course nihilego isn't mold breaker but it doesn't matter too much for the core effectiveness because the whole core is imune to t-spikes. I can give the core importable if someone is interested.
In conclusion, you may find other checks to skymin with more switch-in opportunities (zapdos comes to my mind) but this one is still very usable and if brought in correctly, it wins most 1v1 vs other sweepers. I recomand to play it with hazards on the field to make profit of the switchs fake out will occur.

Well thanks for reading I'm waiting for your feedbacks and please don't hesitate to correct my english.
An interesting idea, though it might be a bit of a niche.
While the double priority is nice, feint still lacks power compared to Atespeeders, but the bit of bulk is nice though it still gets slammed by Absolite/Lucarionite Tapu Lele.
With Feint being the low power that it is, it will struggle to KO stuff that isn't super frail or incredibly weak to flying, and 70 speed is very lackluster in this meta, not being slow enough for Trickroom and not fast enough to play against the Hyper-offensive teams.

Neat idea though and an interesting counter to Skymin.
 

Chloe

is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
NUPL Champion
Oh my lord when is this broken skymin shit being delt with?

I heard council voted 4-1 QB-suspect, but Chloe when are we getting more info on this?
I might as well make a statement here. The current vote is 3-1-1, and as I've mentioned in the discord and OM room many times, I would rather not enforce a quickban with the council being so divided. Obviously, a suspect seems logical, and I agree it does; however, there is no harm in waiting for the release of the Hoenn-starter stones, which may release any day now. Blazikenite may have a profound impact on the metagame, it is a potential way for those with a subpar speed tier to gain traction on 432. While I believe regardless of its impact, Shaymin-Sky will still need a suspect test, it does not hurt in any way to wait just a little bit longer.
 
(As a side note, that Hariyama set above is the kind of set that I like seeing; a perfectly good excuse to use an overlooked combatant; I'll try finding more as these new stones roll out)

I think our real worry here is what we do with Blazikenite, with the Shaymin-Sky suspect approaching. Obviously, the lack of the 1 stone limit's going to drive the meta into bananas territory as the Hoenn stones release. I think we have enough offensive options that reimplementing that limit will be better for creativity. As for that stone itself... I already went over Kartana. Being able to have Return, Night Slash, or Smart Strike in there makes guessing wrong very often lethal. And that's not going into Landorus-Therian and others, which were... dubious in power level at the end of Gen 6. The generation shift probably hasn't fixed this too much, and might have made the problem even worse.
 
Last edited:

Fardin

Tournament Banned
I might as well make a statement here. The current vote is 3-1-1, and as I've mentioned in the discord and OM room many times, I would rather not enforce a quickban with the council being so divided. Obviously, a suspect seems logical, and I agree it does; however, there is no harm in waiting for the release of the Hoenn-starter stones, which may release any day now. Blazikenite may have a profound impact on the metagame, it is a potential way for those with a subpar speed tier to gain traction on 432. While I believe regardless of its impact, Shaymin-Sky will still need a suspect test, it does not hurt in any way to wait just a little bit longer.
Fire everyone from council except jrdn.
 
Looking for a way to make Solgaleo at all viable in this meta. Anyone?
Viable might be a bit of a stretch, but here is something.

Solgaleo @ Leftovers
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Metal Burst
- Sunsteel Strike
- Filler
- Thunder Wave

This set can act as a Pidgeotite Shaymin check. Switching in would be hard and risky, but it fails to 2HKO with Earthpower, even after rocks.

252 SpA Shaymin-Sky Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo: 180-212 (37.7 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery, assuming timid. T-wave would cripple any fast attacker along with Skymin and SSS 2HKOs skymin after rocks.

8 Atk Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-Sky: 136-162 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

Metalburst is there to murder things that can't OHK you, assuming full health.

Is this set good? Eeeeh not really. It has a niche, but if Skymin gets a single Spdef drop from Seed Flare on the switch in, it's toast and it doesn't really stand up to much else in the meta, but if you want to use Solgaleo really badly, this has it's uses.
 

Sylveon.

Penny saved is still a fucking penny
Actually banded solgaleo is pretty decent too, I have had some success running it since it does have coverage to hit everything pretty hard, but the main issue that stands is that steel STAB isn't that spammable. Also getting out sped by yveltal sucks bad as at that point might as well run adamant tbh.
Maybe it will see more usage once altarianite becomes popular as decent bulk allows it to survive plenty of non STAB super-effective hits like +1 zygarde's thousand arrows without much investment.
 
Looking for a way to make Solgaleo at all viable in this meta. Anyone?
I've already made a few sets with Solgaleo in the past; they should still work here...

Solgaleo @ Leftovers
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Sunsteel Strike/Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Morning Sun

A Solgaleo meant to stall some of the less protected sweepers/walls, if it can't take them out in one or two attacks. Iron Head over Sunsteel Strike can really help in long Cresselia wars, but Sunsteel is a great move, and will usually work its way through battles.


Solgaleo @ Normalium Z
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Splash
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Flare Blitz/Morning Sun

A more aggressive take on Solgaleo, and one of the finer Z-move users. Being a Steel-type, Solgaleo shouldn't have too much trouble finding a spot to set up. When it does, something is probably getting KOed. Morning Sun is an option in case Solgaleo faces something that cannot harm it, and is not healthy itself. Stone Edge is probably the best option, though.
 
My MnM Team (Posting in hopes it becomes a Sample Team)

(First of all, sorry for any weird things with the pictures. I don't use Forum BB Code, well, ever, so I don't know how to use it properly.)
Playstyle: Offensive
Staraptor @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- U-turn

Golisopod @ Blue Orb
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leech Life
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Rock Slide

Mew @ Sablenite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Defog
- Soft-Boiled
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn

Salazzle @ Absolite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Xerneas @ Fairium Z
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Geomancy
- Ingrain
- Rest
- Moonblast

Landorus @ Absolite
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Stone Edge


This team is an offensive team, like I stated in the playstyle, which excels at breaking down tough or fast Pokémon, easily. With 3 magic bouncers, you can stop most forms of utility moves such as status or rocks, providing the enemy is not using Gyaradosite. Each Pokémon has a different specific role that helps the team achieve victory.

Staraptor is a wallbreaker/pivot on this team that, despite not having very much longevity, has extreme power with 120 base power STABs and Close Combat as coverage, along with Tough Claws and a base 150 attack coupled with 120 base speed. The speed is not enough to outpace the threats that usually beat it, but it outpaces most walls and many setup sweepers before they accumulate a speed boost. A notable benchmark in its power is the ability to 2HKO 252 HP/0 Defense Primal Groudon with a 64.5% chance. Close Combat is a guaranteed 2HKO against Sablenite Blissey, and a 91.8% chance to 2HKO 4 HP/252+ Defense Slowbronite Blissey. The main drawback of Staraptor, however, is a weakness to Stealth Rock, along with taking huge recoil whenever it attacks. Despite being able to OHKO or 2HKO a large portion of the metagame, it dies very fast, and as such should be used primarily to cripple or kill select Pokémon, or to punch a giant hole in the opposing team.

Golisopod, I think, is pretty self explanatory, as it is used very widely and often, but I will cover it briefly, regardless. The 4 Speed EVs are there to speed creep other Golisopods. Aqua Jet is your best form of Priority, boosted by STAB and Rain, making it 2.25x as powerful. Liquidation is boosted too, and is your main form of damage, dealing huge damage even to resisted pokemon, although if something with Red Orb switches in both moves will fail due to the Desolate Land overriding your Primordial Sea. Leech Life is your Bug STAB, and should be used against Psychic Types/Dark Types/Grass types. It will also heal you for half of the damage dealt, meaning if you hit something super effectively with it, you will probably heal back a large portion of your lost health. Rock Slide is mainly to beat out other Golisopods, having an 89.1% chance of 2HKOing them, along with a 30% flinch chance, but can also be used to get surprise damage on a Red Orb User that isn't Primal Groudon (who only takes neutral damage from it and has high physical bulk), if you can predict it switching in. Against most flying types, use Liquidation over Rock Slide as damage, since Rock Slide can miss and will deal less damage than Liquidation.

Mew is your general tank and hazard remover, which is important, considering three of the Pokémon on this team are weak to Stealth Rock, and the other three take neutral from it. Minimum Speed, including IVs, is used to ensure that you will move last most of the time, so you can bring in a teammate safely with U-Turn. HP and Special Defense is to make this as tanky as possible, and Will-o-Wisp halves the damage of physical attackers, so you don't need to put in defense EVs. Soft Boiled provides recovery, and Defog removes hazards. Mew should survive as much as it can, however, if it gets crippled with paralysis from a Pidgeotite Zap Cannon and/or is low on health, you can have it take an attack and die so you can safely bring in an ally. However, I would recommend you don't do this unless it is around 30% and paralyzed or at around 20% non paralyzed, as it is much bulkier than it looks, and can potentially heal back up from low health if the enemy lacks a powerful STAB or super effective attack. Mainly use Mew to spread burns (Crippling enemy physical attackers), or to provide momentum with a slow U-turn. If the enemy gets Stealth Rock up, it may be detrimental to defog right away, if they have a Pokémon that can switch in on the defog and deal major damage to Mew (Like Glalite Weavile, who can, when burned after Fake Out+Throat Chop, still have a mediocre chance to kill with another Throat Chop).

Salazzle is your stereotypical glass cannon: Amazingly high speed and power, with bulk as bad as Salazzle's power and speed are good. Even a 4x resisted STAB Moonblast or Seed Flare can deal up to and over 25% to Salazzle, and generally most non-glaciate Extreme Speed users can OHKO Salazzle. This means that if it can't OHKO it's enemy, it will likely be OHKOd instead. As bad as that might seem, it has a very specific and very useful place on this team. It outspeeds most popular threats that outspeed everything else, and OHKO's them. Pidgeotite Shaymin Sky, Lucarionite Tapu Koko, all Tapu Leles (Except Scarf, which is rarely used), Glalite Weavile, Red Orb Raikou, and others. And it can use a Super Effective STAB to OHKO each and every one of them (Except Red Orb Raikou, he gets OHKOd by HP Ground instead of a STAB). Absolite Shaymin Sky also cannot OHKO Salazzle, even with Air Slash, so you can potentially kill Absolite Shaymin Sky that way, but a Critical Hit or Flinch will end you, so you might want to save that idea for emergencies. It can also deal exceptional damage to anything that switches in, although it might want to switch out after the something else switches in, unless it can finish the KO. Generally use it to target the threats targeted above, and a few weakened/near dead threats. Keep it away from Extreme Speeders and Blue Orb Golisopod, however, as most Extreme Speeders (Only the Glaciate ones won't, but you should still switch just in case) will OHKO Salazzle almost without fail, and Golisopod using Aqua Jet is a guaranteed OHKO too.

Xerneas is the standard Ubers Z-Geomancy set, and all this typing is getting boring and tiring, so just look at its Uber Page. It should generally be used for Late Game cleanup, but if the enemy lacks a Steel/Fire/Poison type, a hard hitting Pokémon with a Super Effective coverage move, and physically based setup (Or all of those conditions are dead for them), you can go ahead and start setting up if you want.

Landorus is a powerful physical setup sweeper for this team, hitting 141 base Speed, outspeeding Pokémon such as Absolite Manaphy and Metagrossite Mimikyu. Absolite is used over Metagrossite because Superpower is the only move on this setup that makes contact for a Tough Claws Boost, so the +20 attack and Magic Bounce from Absolite beat out the +10 attack and +20 defenses from Metagrossite. Swords Dance ensures a swift and easy way to setup, and Landorus OHKOs a large amount of Pokémon at +2 while using Earthquake, including Absolite Manaphy, Primal Groudon, and Sablenite Magearna (Although it is only an 81.3% Chance of a OHKO if it is 252 HP/252+ Defense). Earthquake is your STAB Attack and your most spammable move. Stone Edge is coverage for Flying Types and Blue Orb Golisopod (When Golisopod switches in. It has a 56.3% chance to OHKO with Aqua Jet if you are at full health). Superpower is for select Pokémon that resists EdgeQuake (The name giving to the combination of Earthquake and Stone Edge), or for targets that it hits Super Effectively that Earthquake and Stone Edge won't OHKO, such as Sablenite/Slowbronite Blissey (2HKO on both when at +2, even with the Attack drop). Weavile and other Glalite priority users will almost always OHKO with their priority, so you have to be careful about setting up when they are still alive. Setting up while they are still alive may allow you to break through a wall, but if they predict the Swords Dance and switch to them, you just lost a kill opportunity.


I have currently hit 9th place on the Mix and Mega ladder, and am still rising, so it's a good team. I'll probably update this with more replays later, after I get some (I usually only save replays if something awesome happens like I crit five times in a row, so I don't have any yet. Most of the replays I have I didn't even save, but other people did).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-579302397
Here is a replay of me against someone in the top 20 (When I fought them) in a ladder battle. Note for the Landorus hax: I could one shot ditto with Golisopod Aqua Jet anyways, so those misses didn't fully matter, and the Dragon Tail misses came at mostly negligible times and would have done nothing damage wise. And I still would have won if my Lando had died because he was down Ditto and Arceus Water, and Zygarde-Complete was crippled. Not to mention I missed my fair share of moves in the beginning and mid parts of the match.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-579661961
I got haxed a little here too, but it's still a decent replay.


Placement Proof:
http://imgur.com/a/cMXsl
 
Last edited:

Eli

any?
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
So I came to talk about Blissey, I really think it should be suspected because it's insanely bulky and can do anything you need for stall, and it's hard to deal with if you don't have any Fighting types or if they've been KO'd. If not now, at least after the Skymin suspect/ban. I really think it's broken. Got some calcs for a bit of proof, they do have Beedrillite, but just to show how much bulk it has.

252 Atk Adaptability Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 684-808 (95.7 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Adaptability Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 768-904 (107.5 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 458-542 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 918-1080 (128.5 - 151.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Problem being the first two are Beedrillite, Terrakion's isn't even guaranteed and Pheromosa is banned from holding stones and we can't even use Beedrillite on anything except Beedrill. Second problem being Terrakion with Lucarionite doesn't OHKO and that's our strongest relevant hit on it, and it needs to get a Swords Dance to OHKO, and Blissey can just switch out to something that'll take the hit and come back in and stall. What're we going to do about this thing? It can do so many things to help the team, Wish to switch and pretty much fully heal anything that comes in, Aromatherapy to take away status on teammates and itself if you get a Mold Breaker Toxic off on it, and even then it has Magic Bounce so if you haven't got Gyaradosite anywhere the only way it'll get status on it is secondary effects of moves. It's bulk is insane, special attacks are nothing to it and physical attacks may do more but it can heal those off easily or switch to let something else take care of any slight threat to it then come back and heal. It also gets consistent damage off of Seismic Toss, or you could use Calm Mind + Special Attacks which also does a lot too. It can also make teams super weak after trying to deal with all the Toxic, Seismic Toss, switching and healing even if it manages to be KO'd, then it's teammates can just pick off the weakened team you have left easily.

Replays with Blissey and switches, Aromatherapy and all that happen.

 

drampa's grandpa

cannonball
is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
So I came to talk about Blissey, I really think it should be suspected because it's insanely bulky and can do anything you need for stall, and it's hard to deal with if you don't have any Fighting types or if they've been KO'd. If not now, at least after the Skymin suspect/ban. I really think it's broken. Got some calcs for a bit of proof, they do have Beedrillite, but just to show how much bulk it has.

252 Atk Adaptability Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 684-808 (95.7 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Adaptability Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 768-904 (107.5 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 458-542 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 918-1080 (128.5 - 151.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Problem being the first two are Beedrillite, Terrakion's isn't even guaranteed and Pheromosa is banned from holding stones and we can't even use Beedrillite on anything except Beedrill. Second problem being Terrakion with Lucarionite doesn't OHKO and that's our strongest relevant hit on it, and it needs to get a Swords Dance to OHKO, and Blissey can just switch out to something that'll take the hit and come back in and stall. What're we going to do about this thing? It can do so many things to help the team, Wish to switch and pretty much fully heal anything that comes in, Aromatherapy to take away status on teammates and itself if you get a Mold Breaker Toxic off on it, and even then it has Magic Bounce so if you haven't got Gyaradosite anywhere the only way it'll get status on it is secondary effects of moves. It's bulk is insane, special attacks are nothing to it and physical attacks may do more but it can heal those off easily or switch to let something else take care of any slight threat to it then come back and heal. It also gets consistent damage off of Seismic Toss, or you could use Calm Mind + Special Attacks which also does a lot too. It can also make teams super weak after trying to deal with all the Toxic, Seismic Toss, switching and healing even if it manages to be KO'd, then it's teammates can just pick off the weakened team you have left easily.

Replays with Blissey and switches, Aromatherapy and all that happen.

First: you don't need to OHKO a defensive mon to beat it. You need to 2hko it generally, in order to damage it faster than it heals.

252 Atk Adaptability Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 612-724 (85.7 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Adaptability Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 612-724 (94 - 111.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Second: Mold Breaker Toxic has twice the PP of Aromatherapy, and Taunt stops Aromatherapy anyway.

Third: Blissey is really passive unless it sets up, and any set that isn't cm / Hyper Voice is walled by things with Substitute. If you have a single counter it's pretty easy to switch in repeatedly and ko it or force it out and deal heavy damage to something else.

...

If Blissey is broken (I believe it's not) it's not because of it being unbeatable but because it can switch into such a large portion of the metagame without fear, and arguably isn't deadweight other than being fat thanks to its ability to set rocks, pass wishes, spread status, and act as a cleric (not all at once unless it gives up both Protect and an attack which makes it much easier to break and I don't think anyone runs).
 
So I came to talk about Blissey, I really think it should be suspected because it's insanely bulky and can do anything you need for stall, and it's hard to deal with if you don't have any Fighting types or if they've been KO'd. If not now, at least after the Skymin suspect/ban. I really think it's broken. Got some calcs for a bit of proof, they do have Beedrillite, but just to show how much bulk it has.

252 Atk Adaptability Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 684-808 (95.7 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Adaptability Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 768-904 (107.5 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 458-542 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 918-1080 (128.5 - 151.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Problem being the first two are Beedrillite, Terrakion's isn't even guaranteed and Pheromosa is banned from holding stones and we can't even use Beedrillite on anything except Beedrill. Second problem being Terrakion with Lucarionite doesn't OHKO and that's our strongest relevant hit on it, and it needs to get a Swords Dance to OHKO, and Blissey can just switch out to something that'll take the hit and come back in and stall. What're we going to do about this thing? It can do so many things to help the team, Wish to switch and pretty much fully heal anything that comes in, Aromatherapy to take away status on teammates and itself if you get a Mold Breaker Toxic off on it, and even then it has Magic Bounce so if you haven't got Gyaradosite anywhere the only way it'll get status on it is secondary effects of moves. It's bulk is insane, special attacks are nothing to it and physical attacks may do more but it can heal those off easily or switch to let something else take care of any slight threat to it then come back and heal. It also gets consistent damage off of Seismic Toss, or you could use Calm Mind + Special Attacks which also does a lot too. It can also make teams super weak after trying to deal with all the Toxic, Seismic Toss, switching and healing even if it manages to be KO'd, then it's teammates can just pick off the weakened team you have left easily.

Replays with Blissey and switches, Aromatherapy and all that happen.


Yeah well, you know, it wasn't banned Gen 6, and it won't be this gen likely. Besides, it's your fault if you don't bring fighting coverage. Almost anything with setup and reliable recovery can break through this, even if that recovery is rest in most cases. Most any standard physical wallbreaker with Fighting STAB/Coverage can 2HKO it, etc. It's easy to prepare for. Yes, it is a tremendous pain to defeat if you don't prepare for it, but, in my opinion, it is also tremendously easy to prepare for with many teams. If you want to see a REAL testament of bulk and annoyingness, try Cresselia @ Sablenite. Calm Mind, Psychic, Moonblast, Rest/Moonlight for recovery. It's hard af to break, compared to Blissey, who has mediocre physical defense with or without a stone. Besides, you said you need to Swords Dance to get a OHKO. The same goes for Sablenite Mew with Willo-Wisp. Defog for hazard removal, or Stealth Rock for hazard placement, it has Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers (Even Weavile if it doesn't get hit by Fake Out and is at full HP), recovery, and uturn for momentum. Blissey may be bulky as shit, but it also can't beat out any sort of Ghost type unless the odd Psybeam is used, in which case it doesn't beat out dark type. Sablenite Spiritomb (Which isn't a thing but still) would 100% wall every sort of Blissey in existence. If it is really that hard for you, just carry Mega Gengar.
 
Shaymin-Sky @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Grass Whistle
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power / Substitute
- Air Slash / Leech Seed

You can either go 3 attacks or SubSeed (I prefer 3 attacks and find it more effective)
On this note...I completely realise it's me being lazy but it would be really useful if someone could collect common sets of every 'mon at least A and up. It would help a lot of people make teams. I can tell you that it's really difficult to make a decent team right now, if I don't even really know what EVs most, say, P-Don run.
 
Last edited:
On this note...I completely realise it's me being lazy but it would be really useful if someone could collect common sets of every 'mon at least A and up. It would help a lot of people make teams. I can tell you that it's really difficult to make a decent team right now, if I don't even really know what EVs most, say, P-Don run.
Many high ranked Pokemon have finished analyses here and in progress ones here . That being said, it's incomplete, so further work is welcome. For primal Groudon in specific, most of the EVs are the same as the Ubers spreads, but when in doubt its often a good idea to check RMTs.
 
Well, I made one sometime back I don't know why(maybe something to do with me having nothing to do), though it contains only common sets, no descriptions unfortunately :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7PfxD_N4y8iSGhmMm80T3BHYTg/view?usp=sharing
(BTW I am very bad with Word and stuff, so pardon the formatting)
So I took a look through and noticed this set:

Manaphy @ Absolite
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Shadow Ball

Just a reminder that Manaphy learns Tail glow, boosting it's SpA by +3 instead of the +2 that comes from Nasty Plot.

The rest was pretty good though, nice job!
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top