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M&M Mix and Mega

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Chloe., Nov 24, 2016.

  1. ScarfWynaut

    ScarfWynaut

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    468
    Haha, how right you are! For those who are sceptical and are doubting this claim, allow me to give you a quick crash course on this new Bug-type move.

    Sticky Web (Japanese: ねばねばネット Sticky Net) is a move introduced in Generation VI. It sets up a very sticky trap for the enemy. Once they fall into it, they lose some Speed! Poor enemy team :(. However, Flying and Levitating Pokémon are completely immune to the sticky webs. Phew! Some users of the move include:
    [​IMG]
    GALVANTULA! :D

    [​IMG]
    SWADLOON (It's grumpy because it doesn't like setting up Sticky Web every game... Poor Swadloon! :[)

    And last but not least.. SMEARGLE!
    [​IMG]

    Thank you and goodnight!
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  2. The Ruins of Alpha

    The Ruins of Alpha Drampa's Grandpa

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    If you're using Sticky Web I'd just use Lucarionite. The whole point of Diancite Lele is outspeeding almost everything (while being immune to priority ofc).

    Marsh is a pain yah, but will probably not be as omnipresent now that Altarianite has been released (thank god).

    Blue Orb Leavanny for webs and Pdon counter obv.... what's a Stone Edge?
  3. Mark_K

    Mark_K

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    Jan 6, 2017
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    Did you just... leave shuckle out?

    E: [​IMG] nice research
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  4. Evanile

    Evanile

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2014
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    111
    [​IMG]
    I am fully convinced this is the most derpy cute heatran I'll ever see

    Heatran @ Ampharosite
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Lava Plume / Fire Blast
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Earth Power
    - Stealth Rock


    Because... memes.

    Ampharosite Heatran is pretty dumb, but its typing is a lot less dumb: Fire/Dragon lets you do a good number onto Heatran's standard fare of beaten mons, constant U-Turn spam, and in comparison to standard Heatran, not take super effective damage from Fighting - cough marshadow cough - and have a chance to actually take a Ground or Water hit or two - if you're lucky. STAB Dragon Pulse hits like a truck onto switchins with 180 Special Attack, with a lot of walls coming in expecting something... not Ampharosite. Lava Plume appreciates a general boost in power, and Fire Blast is possible for stronger hits at the cost of burn potential. A general bulk increase is really appreciated, and a drop in speed doesn't really affect Heatran since it's already pathetically slow if it wanted to be fast and, I may be totally be dumb here, but what mon actually hits around the 67-77 range that matters tons here?



    You also can combat Golisopod not too badly without a switch into Rocks in your Rock-weak Mega'd state:

    252+ Atk Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 157-186 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ SpA Mold Breaker Heatran Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golisopod: 172-204 (59.1 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Primal Groudon instantly forces you out, but doesn't want to switch in either:

    252+ SpA Mold Breaker Heatran Earth Power vs. 152 HP / 44 SpD Groudon-Primal: 274-324 (72.2 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Offensive Rocks spread, idr what Pdon runs in MnM)



    For other stuffs you can run or things to note, Toxic is fun for Sablenite Blissey since you Mold Breaker straight through it. Taunt does the same thing but affects a wider range of Pokemon and can actually irritate some things. Stealth Rock ignores Magic Bounce leads like a Deoxys form, Blissey, or Absolite users, which is also fun. Flash Cannon can be run even non-STAB for Altarianite Zygarde and other Altarianite mons, since especially with Zygarde it can struggle to hit them for anything more than 30%. A tanky spread is possible, with phys def being perfect to handle Golisopod and stay in even on the omniprescent Primal Groudon without any rocks damage.

    236+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 336-396 (87 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO



    And for the obvious, 'Why not just use Reshiram? I know you're a shitposting lil cunt, PrincessGardevoir, but this is just really bad!"


    while i agree with you
    [​IMG]


    A generally higher set of bulk combined with initial Flash Fire, a surprise factor, and Stealth Rocks makes Heatran pretty fun. This set isn't made to purposedly showcase something that's broken, good, or otherwise should ever be used by any reasonable human being laddering or otherwise, but it's here to show something I've had fun with.



    uhhh...
    i dont know how to end posts...

    boneless pizza
    Phat Albert likes this.
  5. thesecondbest

    thesecondbest Just Kidding I'm First

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    Yes you have higher bulk but reshiram has access to blue flare for stronger stab and roost to be a better tank, and it can speed creep groudon while you just get rocked. And the bulk is better because of access to leftovers and roost. unless you want a stronger dragon pulse i wouldnt use tran
  6. Evanile

    Evanile

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    Besides that fact, I will respond without a one liner in that yes, Reshiram has Blue Flare and Roost, that wasn't the point of my message. Reshiram is cool since it does have those, but most players won't expect a Fire/Dragon Heatran when they send in a Pokemon that can regularly deal with Heatran Megas. This was also a post that was made for fun.
  7. The Ruins of Alpha

    The Ruins of Alpha Drampa's Grandpa

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    Honestly access to rocks, roar, taunt, and magma storm (no that's not a set) more than makes Heatran a usable stallbreaker / hazard setter when compared to Resh.

    The question is whether either is really worth it imo, not whether Resh outclasses Heatran when they have rather different movepools.
  8. IamntoamButImAm

    IamntoamButImAm

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    I'm a bit surprised about Shuckles.

    You know the joke "don't fuckles with the Shuckles"? Well, here you actually don't want to.

    Lets start with the actual wall you cannot break.

    Stats: Shuckle @ Latiasite - Bug/Rock | Levitate | 20/30/255/40/250/5 (600 BST) | Low Kick/Grass Knot: 60 BP (32.5 kg).

    Possible sets:

    Toxic Stall


    Shuckle @ Latiasite
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Toxic
    - Infestation
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rest

    Well, first of all, yes it's shut down by taunt users, but in return; it doesn't worry about taking damage. After you get Toxic and Infestation's up, all you have to do is make sure the user doesn't have taunt and switches out, and switching out is no worries. Your only spreading the toxic. If you know their going switch, toxic. Though, steel and poison types can wall this mon, It still has a special niche as a interesting toxic stall. Note: Another thing with Shuckle is its last of recovery; which is still suffer a bit.

    Rock Setter


    Shuckle @ Latiasite
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Stealth Rock
    - Sticky Web
    - Infestation
    - Rest



    Alright, Ampharosite AND Gyradosite (mostly Gyradosite), are way better for this role. Not having to worry about magic bounce/magic guard users is nice, but, for the same reason as the Toxic Stall, it has a niche as a wall, and can be just a mon for fun. What else is their to it? Go for rocks, infestation, and sleep it off. Nothing to it, still, Gyradosite Shuckle does it better, but, you get a better wall and more of a niche here.

    And that's it! If you want a wall of posts showing it's a tank, here! Also note: this is my first post, enjoy! And also note that these mons are just for fun and maybe could be used, I doubt it though, since theirs better roles.

  9. Lcass4919

    Lcass4919 The Xatu Warrior

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    when you think about it, technically blissey is twice as bulky as shuckle. enless you really want webs, blissey kind of outclasses shuckle as a wall/tank. with this in mind, blissey is 2x bulkier physically and specially, meaning even if you say "shuck has different weaknesses" blissey is still tanking super effective fighting moves about the same as neutral fighting moves for the bug. shuck still has niche as a webs user, but as a wall, hes not just passive, but outclassed in this metagame. not to mention bouncers are everywhere.

    252 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 72-85 (10 - 11.9%) -- possible 9HKO(sablenite)
    252 Atk Mew Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 126-148 (17.6 - 20.7%) -- possible 5HKO(sablenite)(forgot to make it bold, but my point stands)
    252 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Shuckle: 45-54 (18.5 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO
    252 Atk Mew Psychic Fangs vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Shuckle: 51-60 (20.9 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

    not trying to be a spoil sport, if you want to use shuck, be my guest. im just showing that shuckle might be tanky, but only about half as tanky as blissey-which has a similar role.
    TylerWithNumbers likes this.
  10. Semako

    Semako

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    Isn't Latiasite the better option for heatran due to levitate?
  11. Willdbeast

    Willdbeast

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    For defensive roles that's probably true but for support roles with taunt and stealth rock (and toxic?) having mold breaker makes it actually possible to do things against Sablenite users such as blissey an basically any bulky mon.
    (Whether heatran is the best at this role idk but at least it can threaten out non venusaurite steels that block it's toxic)
    Evanile likes this.
  12. IamntoamButImAm

    IamntoamButImAm

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    Oh I understand, but, like I said, its just for fun. Also, when did Mew get Psychic Fangs?
  13. M'joe'ra

    M'joe'ra

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    It's just a hypothetical example to represent damage from the physical side.
    Lcass4919 likes this.
  14. Lcass4919

    Lcass4919 The Xatu Warrior

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    as stated above i was just using the "closest STAB base power to psychic" so the calcs made a bit more sense in regards to the bulk of both mons.

    and yeah, i figured it was just for fun, im not saying you must switch to blissey or anything. im just saying if anyone wants to play serious, blissey's role is a lot more tailored to being a wall. a lot of people will flame you for it saying "shuck sucks use ___" so im just playing devil's advocate and saying if people want to use shuckle, they should know blissey does similar things, and thus your putting yourself at a slight disadvantage. mainly so a huge argument doesn't start on here over fun vs viability. since it happens a lot, and wastes about 2 or 3 pages of the same shit being repeated. if you get what im saying.
  15. Rose_Warrior

    Rose_Warrior

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    well diancite just broke marshadow as an assiant to marshadows centralization I created this set not tested yet though so I was wondering what do you guys think?

    Tapu Lele @ Terrain Extender
    Ability: Psychic Surge
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Aromatherapy
    - Nature's Madness
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect


    its as bulky as can be cause it just needs to set up terrain so marshadow can kill things while not fearing espeeders

    252+ Atk Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 127-150 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (sabnite)
    252+ Atk Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 160-189 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO(blue orb)
    252+ Atk Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 135-160 (30.4 - 36%) -- 46.5% chance to 3HKO

    I know that does not seem like a lot to these things but keep in mind these are physical walls for the purpose of switching into physical hits
  16. Fardin

    Fardin

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    Adap and metagrosite does about the same damage, but it actually got a decent bulk with them and an already high speed. I don't see why people should run diancite on it
  17. Rose_Warrior

    Rose_Warrior

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    nothing can out speed you with diancite except espeeders other diancite marshadow and deoxis speed creating a phero like pokemon that can hit hard and if it is scared of dieing just switch out
  18. thesecondbest

    thesecondbest Just Kidding I'm First

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    except non diancite marshadow can stomach a shadow sneak from you (diancite does 53-63 to metagrossite and dies to an opposing sneak), you are less powerful, and what does the extra speed even help for? what is between the 165 and 185 speed tiers? gyaradosite deo-s? anything else? i wouldnt run diancite
  19. Evanile

    Evanile

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    Thing is that Marshadow with Metagrossite already hits a super respectable speed tier, keeps Marshadow's bulk at very much so usable levels, and still forces Pokemon over base 105 speed to run Diancite just to be able to outspeed. Marshadow appreciates a power boost off Tough Claws that already makes it hit harder than Diancite's bonus, and with a bulk increase it has a chance of taking a possible non-Altarianite Espeed. So why bother with Diancite?



    Diancite-
    252 Atk Marshadow Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 726-854 (226.1 - 266%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    0 Atk Pixilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marshadow: 560-662 (174.4 - 206.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    Metagrossite-
    252 Atk Tough Claws Marshadow Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 740-872 (230.5 - 271.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    0 Atk Pixilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marshadow: 276-326 (85.9 - 101.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO


    And, because i can already hear the furious typing of even more nerdy people than me, these specific calcs are just to show a comparison. Nobody will use regular Abomasnow, and I doubt that 0 Atk (SubCoil spread) Zygarde exist with Altarianite. Could be wrong.



    EDIT: A Mixed set with Diancite is possible, but in that case, Lucarionite's probably still better. And Mixed Marshadow means it will run a -def or -spdef nature and still won't hit well specially, so...
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM
  20. lalalama

    lalalama

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    I'm not sure if this has been addressed before, but I would like clarification on the smeargle with dragon ascent. Does it mean that only smeargle can mega into rayquaza-m, or can any pokemon now "learn" dragon ascent, and get the stat buffs of rayquaza-m? If the former is true, it seems like a waste, because smeargle is completely unviable, but if it is the latter, it does not work. If it is neither, why is it in the dropdown menu for available mega stones?
  21. Chloe.

    Chloe. \( • ω •)/
    is a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

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    Smeargle gains the buffs Mega Rayquaza does if it has Dragon Ascent and holds no Mega Stone. This can be somewhat useful by sacrificing a moveslot for a more optimal Speed tier. Additionally, Smeargle can still hold a Focus Sash using this method. Generally, I'd stay away from using Smeargle as a whole, but the option is there.

    It isn't rocket science.
  22. Lcass4919

    Lcass4919 The Xatu Warrior

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    if your this desperate for hazards might as well just use bannettite enless you REALLLY hate tyrantite/charizardite y lol same advantages, same disadvantages, except outspeeds everything, isnt restricted to 3 moves, and is slightly bulkier, allowing it to actually maybe tank a hit.
    thesecondbest likes this.
  23. thesecondbest

    thesecondbest Just Kidding I'm First

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    or you can run a suicide smeargle!
    meme? (Smeargle) @ Banettite
    Ability: Own Tempo
    Level: 36
    EVs: 48 HP / 248 Def / 100 SpD / 112 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Spore
    - Destiny Bond
    - Sticky Web
    - Endeavor
    Outspeeds sablenite blissey and has 101 hp to live a seismic toss. the low hp value makes endeavor better. Pranskter destiny bond into next turn endeavor is lit vs any non espeeder (even checks marshadow) because you also have spore! Idea is to spore, then get up webs on the switch, then endeavor and destiny bond for utlity. Only issue is now with altarianite out that means even more espeeders and diancite doesn't let you get up webs, but prankster sleep and prankster destiny bond is lit.
  24. InfernapeTropius11

    InfernapeTropius11 get on my level

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    This set is simply purely shit. The one thing it is designed to do (beat Blissey???) it doesn't even do, because Soft-Boiled and Wish both have more PP than Endeavor, Toxic is a thing, and Smeargle fails to get Webs up regardless. Smeargle in general is a mediocre mon and this niche set is literally a 100% downgrade from level 100 Smeargle cuz it can't even do the one thing you claimed it could. This loses to priority of any kind, apart from Shadow Sneak (espeed from entei, arcanine, zyg, arceus, genesect, fake out/feint from weavile, aqua jet from golisopod etc. etc.), Taunt, Magic Bounce (which is everywhere due to Sablenite and Diancite), status, and just in general anyone who has a brain. Please test your sets before posting because this is just unbelievably terrible.
    Chloe. and GL Volkner like this.
  25. thesecondbest

    thesecondbest Just Kidding I'm First

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    first it doesnt lose to taunt because you have priority spore
    second i even said its not that good anymore because of diancite and altarianite meaning more priority
    third its not designed to beat blissey its designed to sleep something, get up webs, and cripple something. it is very good if they lead pdon (or if you u-turn into it with something like genesect or koko, you can also come in on support arceus or any non sablenite defensive mon)
    fourth its not supposed to kill blissey, you just get it down low then switch into something that threatens it out, and presumably you got up webs. obviously you dont lead with it if they lead blissey. this is why it pairs well with calm mind rest gothitelle, which kills blisseys that try to annoy you

    and i tested it before posting and got to 1419 on ladder, i even almost beat someone really good (either highlord or chazmic i forget) except it was pre altarianite so my zygarde's 1k arrows + +1 1k arrows left his pdon at 1%. pinsirite gives 30 attack and altarianite 40 so i would have won if altarianite was out. dont accuse people of not testing sets. you can still call it shit but dont accuse me for that please and thank you

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