Metagame Move Equality

You forgot a few.
Surf
Whirlpool
Gust
Twister
Earthquake (not that it matters, since it already has 100 BP)
Magnitude
The way the server is coded, most of these moves have fixed base power, but they deal double damage against opponents in certain circumstances, while Magnitude is just a special snowflake.
 

Martin

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The way the server is coded, most of these moves have fixed base power, but they deal double damage against opponents in certain circumstances, while Magnitude is just a special snowflake.
is there a way to add them to the code? these moves should be doubled due to the fact they are self-modifying (they double their own power against pokemon using dig/dive/fly as opposed to dig/dive/fly doubling their power)
 
is there a way to add them to the code? these moves should be doubled due to the fact they are self-modifying (they double their own power against pokemon using dig/dive/fly as opposed to dig/dive/fly doubling their power)
Yes; in fact there were already some excluded moves in Gen 6 Camomons, they were Body Slam, Flying Press, Phantom Force, Shadow Force, Steamroller and Stomp. (At least, those were the extra exclusions that were in force at the time I copied the code.) I'll add all of the new list in too; the change will take effect at the next hotpatch.
 
Wait, since Grassy Terrain halves the power of Bulldoze, wouldn't it also qualify as having variable power? It's basically the same thing as Solar Beam in the rain.
 

Martin

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Wait, since Grassy Terrain halves the power of Bulldoze, wouldn't it also qualify as having variable power? It's basically the same thing as Solar Beam in the rain.
It's not self-modifying; the difference here is subtle--especially for weird cases like Bulldoze--but I'll try my best to explain it as best I can:

In order for a move to be self-modifying, it needs to affect itself under certain conditions. For instance, Body Slam doubles in power on a target which as used Minimize. In the case of Solar Beam, the move is halving its own base power if rain is active. External modifications are reserved for cases where it is the field which is having an effect on the move as opposed to the other way round, meaning that the sweeping modifications are applied to swathes of moves as opposed to individual cases where the move itself is modifying its power (in addition to the 1.5x power boost to Grass-type moves, part of the effect of grassy terrain is reducing the base power of moves which cause the ground to shift--i.e. Bulldoze, Magnitude, and Earthquake (granted the latter two have other methods of self-modification, meaning they remain un-changed regardless of this). In the original version of Move Equality there was a bit of weirdness surrounding it which we spent a while discussing before finally working out a consistent method of determining whether a move gets left as-is, and this resulted in Bulldoze qualifying for the boost to 100 BP.

You're probably still kinda unclear 'cause this explanation is kinda crap, but tl;dr Bulldoze is 100 BP.
 

Ludicrousity

You humour me greatly with your arrogance and c...
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A few moves with better viability:
  • Nuzzle
  • Spark
  • Rage
  • Rapid Spin
  • Absorb + Mega Drain
  • Wrap
  • Poison Sting
  • Astonish
  • Twineedle
  • Lick (Ghost type Body Slam)
  • Bubble + Bubblebeam
  • Flame Wheel
  • Flame Charge
  • Force Palm
  • Frost Breath
  • Dragon Breath
  • Feint Attack
  • Heart Stamp
  • Magical Leaf
  • Magnet Bomb
  • Pluck
  • Ancient Power + Silver Wind
  • Shadow Punch
  • Water Pulse
  • Acid Spray
  • Aurora Beam
  • Thunder Fang
  • Mirror Shot / Mud Bomb / Leaf Tornado
  • Glaciate
  • Headbutt
  • Air Cutter
and many more

here are a couple of sets

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rage
- Flame Charge
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
Rage allows it to get nice damage whilst boosting it's attack when it tanks a hit, Flame Charge gives it speed.

Tyrantrum @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Fang
- Ice Fang
- Poison Fang
- Fire Fang
BITE EVERYTHING. Well, this thing has great coverage with all 100 BP moves, and an ability that makes the moves even stronger. It basically has a physical version of BoltBeam, aswell as Fire Fang to hit things like Magnezone, and Poison Fang for the dang Fairies that try to get it.

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clear Smog
- Ominous Wind
- Infestation
- Hidden Power [Electric]
Sorry, you were setting up? I have Clear Smog. Now I can also boost my stats with Ominous Wind. This thing also has Psuedo Shadow Tag in the form of Infestation, making it a real hassle to deal with.

Sharpedo @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Bite
- Poison Fang
- Psychic Fangs / Waterfall
Oh, you're scarfed? Too bad, I have Protect Speed Boost. Sharpedo, in this meta, can dish out heavy amounts of damage, thanks to Bite having 100 BP and a chance to flinch, and Poison Fang, which can deal with and Fairies or Grass Types that want to try and deal with it. It's your choice from there between Psychic Fangs and Waterfall.
 
Tyrantrum @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Fang
- Ice Fang
- Poison Fang
- Fire Fang
BITE EVERYTHING. Well, this thing has great coverage with all 100 BP moves, and an ability that makes the moves even stronger. It basically has a physical version of BoltBeam, aswell as Fire Fang to hit things like Magnezone, and Poison Fang for the dang Fairies that try to get it.
You have no STAB whatsoever. Replace one of the moves with Dragon Claw or Rock Tomb.
 
While I agree that he should probably run Rock Tomb, Strong Jaw means that he functionally has four stabs already
Poison is a bad type to be locked into -- if anything goes, it should be that. Rock Tomb will let it cleanly revenge Volcarona, a function that a team's Rock-type is often asked to fill. Fairies aren't going to switch into something that has a bunch of powerful neutral moves anyways.
 

Ludicrousity

You humour me greatly with your arrogance and c...
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You have no STAB whatsoever. Replace one of the moves with Dragon Claw or Rock Tomb.
Poison is a bad type to be locked into -- if anything goes, it should be that. Rock Tomb will let it cleanly revenge Volcarona, a function that a team's Rock-type is often asked to fill. Fairies aren't going to switch into something that has a bunch of powerful neutral moves anyways.
To be honest, Tyrantrum was the one thing what wasn't supposed to be completely serious. Poison fang may not be a good type to be locked into, due to poisons, but you could swap possibly Ice Fang for Dragon Dance and switch the item, so that you have a counter to almost everything. I would say keep Poison Fang because it hits the fairies, unlike everything else.
 
Here's a few more sets I theorymoned.

EDIT: Now that I have some free time, I'm going to flesh out the sets a bit more.

Clawitzer and Mega Blastoise
Clawitzer @ Choice Specs
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse

Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse

Both Clawitzer and Mega Blastoise can fire off Water Pulses with an effective base power of 225 after factoring STAB and Mega Launcher. The other moves can be swapped out for Icy Wind, Hidden Power, or U-turn/Rapid Spin.


Golurk
Golurk @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Punch
- Bulldoze
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch / Thunder Punch

Now that Shadow Punch is actually strong now, Golurk finally has good Ghost STAB. Not much else to say about it.


Electivire
Electivire @ Expert Belt
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Bulldoze

Similar to Golurk, now that Thunder Punch is actually strong, Electivire can finally make full use of its physical attack. Electivire has always had loads of other moves it can use to customize its coverage, but some notably buffed additions in this meta are Rock Tomb, Thief, and Rock Smash / Low Sweep / Karate Chop.


Whiscash
Whiscash @ Electrium Z
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spark
- Dragon Dance
- Bulldoze
- Waterfall

SO APPARENTLY WHISCASH GETS SPARK. I don't know, I just thought that was hilarious.
In all seriousness, while Spark helps Whischash beat opposing Waters and especially Water/Flying types, it leaves him walled by Grass types, which is obviously not good for a Water/Ground type.


Luxray
Luxray @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spark
- Ice Fang
- Fire Fang
- Double Kick / Thief / Facade

This is the mon I was actually looking for when I discovered Spark Whiscash. Double Kick is cool for breaking Sashes, Thief steals an item if your Flame Orb is knocked off, and Facade is still 140 power. Speaking of Guts and Double Kick...


Flareon
Flareon @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flame Charge
- Rock Smash
- Bite
- Facade

Okay, so it turns out Flareon doesn't actually get Double Kick, but does get Rock Smash. Flareon's movepool is still garbage, but Flame Charge patches up its middling speed.


Zangoose
Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Toxic Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
- Double Kick / Shadow Claw

More status! More moves over 100 power! Double Kick hits Rocks and Steels (many of which have Sturdy), while Shadow Claw hits Ghosts.


EDIT 2: i cant stop theorymonning someone send help

Ursaring
Ursaring @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Lick
- Rock Smash
- Swords Dance

Despite being hypes up, there aren't many mons that can make good use of Lick. Ursaring is probably its best user. Also, more Facade.


Starmie
Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Fire]

You thought Analytic Hydro Pumps were hard to switch into? Try 100 BP Analytic Scald.


Pikachu
Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Nuzzle
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Grass]
- Agility

Who needs speed investment when you've got Agility and paralysis? (I'm 99% sure this set is terrible)


Serperior
Serperior @ Normalium Z
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Mega Drain
- Dragon Pulse / Leech Seed / Substitute / Glare / Nature Power
Leaf Storm may do less damage, but Serperior gets plenty to compensate. Firstly, moves such as Rock Tomb, Bulldoze, Rock Smash, and Low Sweep and Acid Spray are pretty common, which all give Serperior stat boosts. Second, its non-Leaf Storm moves are buffed dramatically, most notably HP Fire. Finally, because Hidden Power is technically Normal type, you can run Breakneck Blitz without having to use Hyper Beam.


Darmanitan
Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf / Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Wheel
- Bulldoze / Rock Smash
- Rock Tomb / Rock Smash
- U-turn

Darmanitan no longer has to kill itself with its own STAB. Better yet, it can make better use of Sheer Force. Bulldoze instead of Earthquake, Rock Tomb instead of Stone Edge, Rock Smash instead of Superpower. And as an added bonus, having greater access to moves with effects makes it easier for Orb sets to bluff Scarf.


Serene Grace Shenanigans
Sawsbuck @ Leftovers / King's Rock
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Secret Power
- Rock Smash
- Synthesis / Leech Seed

Stronger Horn Leech means more recovery, Secret Power has a 60% chance to probably paralyze, and Rock Smash is guaranteed to get the defense drop. King's Rock can be used for paraflinch trolling.

Meloetta @ Black Belt
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Relic Song
- Rock Smash
- Secret Power
- Shadow Claw

More of the same, except more geared toward offense, and Rock Smash is STAB. Shadow Claw is for Ghosts.

Dunsparce @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 Spe
Impish Nature
- Glare
- Headbutt
- Astonish
- Roost

Not even the undead are safe from being paraflinched to death. I gave it enough speed to creep base 110s after paralysis.


I... I think that's it for now.
 
Last edited:
Comfey is super interesting tbh. +3 priority and 50% healing on its STAB is fucking immense, and it is probably going to be similar to XY Talonflame with regards to its prevelance here. Just spitballing here:
Comfey @ Choice Specs
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 SpA / idk spread them out somehow
Modest Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ground]
- Magical Leaf / Grass Knot
- U-turn

Comfey @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 SpA / idk spread them out somehow
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Draining Kiss
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground
- Calm Mind

Comfey @ Big Root / Leftovers
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Leech Seed
- Calm Mind
- Substitute / Aromatherapy / Taunt
Draining Kiss drains 75%.
 
Weather Ball sounds nice with 200 BP

Vanilluxe @ Choice Band/Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA idk what else
Nature: idk
- Weather Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Hp ground
- Filler/Freeze-Dry
 

Martin

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is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Weather Ball sounds nice with 200 BP

Vanilluxe @ Choice Band/Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA idk what else
Nature: idk
- Weather Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Hp ground
- Filler/Freeze-Dry
Weather Ball’s BP is unchanged as it has a variable BP
 

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