Metagame NP: RU Stage 8: Down By The Water [Kommonium Z Banned]

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eren

je suis d'ailleurs
One of the biggest concerns many expressed in this meta prior to these tier shifts was the power and impact of Durant and its versatile offensive options, and I think it'll be interesting to see how Durant adapts now that a counter and a check to Black Hole Eclipse Durant have dropped. A set I can see rising in viability/usage is:


Durant @ Rockium Z
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- Iron Head
- Superpower
- Stone Edge

Bar Stealth Rock, Mandibuzz is one of few true counters to Black Hole Eclipse Durant. Running Stone Edge instead of Crunch - though sacrifices a significant amount of accuracy EVEN WITH an accuracy boost from Hone Claws - OHKOs Mandibuzz, M-Blastoise, and Milotic (guaranteed instead of a 43.8% chance) while doing more damage (≈ 6-7%) to Gligar. This comes at the price of now being walled by Doublade in forgoing Z-Crunch, but would overall I think optimize its options. Also, Doublade has been trash imo so I guess it's a plus that it's good for something now.
  • +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 542-638 (128.1 - 150.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blastoise-Mega: 331-390 (91.4 - 107.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
  • +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blastoise-Mega: 331-390 (110.7 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (standard UU M-Stoise set has max speed; I don't know UU well so I don't what EV spread would translate here)
  • +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Milotic: 402-474 (102 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 181-213 (54.1 - 63.7%)
  • +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 161-190 (48.2 - 56.8%)

When I first drafted this post, my mind first went to Electrium-Z Thunder Fang which I guess has its niche benefit in OHKO'ing M-Blastoise and Milotic without a Hone Claws boost if you want that for whatever reason -- but after mulling it over I figured Rockium-Z had more upside.
  • 252 Atk Hustle Durant Gigavolt Havoc (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blastoise-Mega: 294-348 (81.2 - 96.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252 Atk Hustle Durant Gigavolt Havoc (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Milotic: 360-424 (91.3 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

I could be missing something and be off the mark, but I'm curious as to what you all think the implications of these drops are for Durant.
+1 252 Atk Hustle Durant All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 240 HP / 216+ Def Mandibuzz: 294-346 (69.8 - 82.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Hustle Durant All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 351-413 (117.3 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

?
frankly, don't see the point of that when z-pummeling gives you much better neutral and especially when you're sacrificing coverage to hit doublade. you dont even revenge psychic types not named sigilyph reliably since you don't have crunch. don't see much use for this overall. gligar loses to ant in the long run or is severely weakened by it so u don't need z exactly. Z-fight is stronger vs Milo so no comment there.

agree that doublade is trash

I'll drop some fun stuff since I'm here


Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 240 HP / 8 Def / 64 SpD / 196 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Roost
- Foul Play

mandi seems pretty meta defining, to me at least, due to its raw bulk. evs are simple. lefties number. you live +1 all out pummeling from full guaranteed (w/o rocks), which is basically the strongest raw physical move you'll face. you're faster than cress and adamant tsareena, which means you're faster than bewear and pangoro to throw off a last ditch toxic or roost off band ice punches (although being faster than them makes you more suspectible to being hit with a fighting type move on roost, so be wary of that). rest is dumped into spd. you can also somewhat mitigate milotic so that's helpful

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 240 HP / 92 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Taunt / Toxic
- Roost
- Foul Play

for defog variants. you avoid the 2HKO from swellow from full while attaining the same physical bulk (reduced by 3 points, only makes ur durant roll 6% chance to kill)

E:

"that's so ghetto" (Mandibuzz) (F) @ Metronome
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Roost
- Dark Pulse
- Air Slash

heat.



Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Aura Sphere / Dark Pulse
- Rapid Spin / Dark Pulse

blastoise also seems great to me at least. the fact it's as fast as feraligatr is kinda funny to me, and it actually puts it in a nifty speed tier so im running max speed to outspeed stuff like tsareena and cress so it's nice. real men run hydro pump. aura sphere nails stuff like p2 and lax for a lot of dmg while dpulse is better for say, cress and meloetta. or run zap cannon so milotic doesn't wall you:bloblul:

e: you could also run timid to outspeed nidoqueen I suppose although I'm not sure I'd sacrifice the power just yet.
 
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Take Azelfie

More flags more fun

Persian-Alola @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Parting Shot
- Foul Play
- Taunt
- Hypnosis

With the death of Kommo-o, I can see Persian at least rising back to recognition. I like this Pokemon a lot before it became "obsoleted" by Kommo-o thanks to Parting Shot being such a great offensive tool. It can be quite a big asset in matchups where Linoone is present because you can revive your Doublade's HP before it Belly Drum's up. And because Persian has Taunt it isn't set up bait for Linoone itself. Outside of that its another way outside of webs to play a very offensive playstyles but back it up with some defensive cores where if you choose to use Ribombee you would have to dive entirely into the HO experience. In my honest opinion I think that Hypnosis is the best last move because if you do land it, you get to Parting Shot the next Pokemon coming in while leaving another useless for the time being or if they are stubborn and stay in you can just capitalize on the free turns. Even after revealing Hypnosis Snorlax won't be able to Sleep Talk or do much thanks to the combo of Parting Shot and Taunt. It also helps out that this mon is faster than Durant who can set up and being revenge killed by Foul Play. Use this mon its fun.
 
To be honest, I could see Mega Blastoise being a better hazard remover than Mandibuzz considering how well it deals with most hazard setters like M-Glalie (spikes), M-Steelix, Nidoqueen (will prob run t-bolt due to the fat-water flood), Gligar, & Rhyperior. I could see Bewear getting better with Kommo-o out of the tier.
252+ Atk Choice Band Bewear Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 186-220 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Bewear Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 229-270 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
There aren't many pokemon that can switch into this monster; slow fat pokes are taking over the tier which is in it's favor. I could see Durant being a new top physical threat as well, considering the fact that it handles M-Stoise, Mandibuzz, and other bulky threats better than Feraligatr.
 
I'd just like to add some comments regarding my own opinions on the pokemon mentioned in your post.

To be honest, I could see Mega Blastoise being a better hazard remover than Mandibuzz considering how well it deals with most hazard setters like M-Glalie (spikes), M-Steelix, Nidoqueen (will prob run t-bolt due to the fat-water flood), Gligar, & Rhyperior.
I understand why you would think that, but personally I do not think it's fair to compare them. M-Stoise is a breaker that can be used as an offensive spinner, whereas Mandi is a bulky pivot/wall that can also Defog. While they may offer similar utility in regards to just the term "hazard removal", they do it in completely different ways, and thus fill different roles. For the record Mandi can Taunt Glig, Lix and Rhyp to prevent Toxic, which lets it stall them out. Without Toxic they are obviously beaten with ease. Admittedly, a Toxic upon Mandi's switchin could be problematic. Lastly, if Mandi is Sp Def, it walls Queen barring critical hits. In conclusion, it is in my opinion not fitting to compare them as removers, as they do not remove hazards in the same way. What is for certain however, is that M-Stoise is one hell of a good Rapid Spinner, not being spinblocked by a single mon (unless the ghost in question sacrifices itself) and Mandi is a great defoger. We finally have all the good removal options we ever wanted!

I could see Bewear getting better with Kommo-o out of the tier.
252+ Atk Choice Band Bewear Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 186-220 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Bewear Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 229-270 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
There aren't many pokemon that can switch into this monster; slow fat pokes are taking over the tier which is in it's favor.
This is a common misconception. The set is sadly not updated in the calc/analysis:/ Bewear runs Double-Edge, not Return. This makes a significant difference to that damage calc, as it means that it always 2HKOs Mandi, even without SR damage. That being said, it's highly unlikely that Mandi would run max Def anyway. I'd imagine it would want quite a bit of Speed and/or Sp Def as well.

M-Stoise should never be max HP. If you choose to use Modest Stoise, you can invest a bit in hp, as you only need enough speed for Cress, Krow, Bewear and Goro. The only relevant thing in between max Speed and 206 Speed Modest Stoise is Modest Queen. This leaves you with 50 EVs left that you can dump in HP.

Personally I don't think "Slow fat pokes" are taking over the tier. In fact, the tier is in such a state where Bulky Offense is the most common and arguably the best playstyle. Sure, it has "bulky" in it, but it also has "offense". RU is not the "stally" kind of tier you would associate with "Slow fat pokes". A very common misconception is that RU is this fat tier where nothing but fat teams exists. While we do have some absurdly bulky walls in f.ex. Cress, Umby and P2, we also have very strong, viable breakers. RU is in a great state right now in my opinion. Most, if not all playstyles are viable, a wide variety of mons have a solid niche, and there's not too many broken threats around.

Keeping all of this in mind, I do agree on Bewear potentially becoming slightly better. Not having to go up against a mon that can OHKO it and potentially set up on it by taking advantage of scaring Bewear out (Kommo-o), is obviously positive, and Mandi means stall might become a dominant playstyle again, which the Bear is extremely dangerous versus.

I could see Durant being a new top physical threat as well, considering the fact that it handles M-Stoise, Mandibuzz, and other bulky threats better than Feraligatr.
I totally agree with this, except for one thing: Ant didn't suddenly get better because of the changes. It is not just a "new top physical threat". In fact, it has been arguably broken for a while. Tons of people in multiple NP-RU-Stage threads have complained about it being too much for the tier to handle. The only way this could possibly change, was if we happened to get some drops that could reliably check it. And in the end, nothing that could check it all that well dropped outside of Phydef Mandi, which... i'll let the calcs speak for themselves:

+1 252 Atk Hustle Durant All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 286-337 (67.4 - 79.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 198-234 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 181-214 (42.6 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Note that this is absolute max Def Mandi as well, which likely will not be the standard as mentioned earlier.

TL;DR: Stoise and Mandi are cool additions to the tier. Bewear will probably get slightly better without Kommo-o's presence. Ban Ant and this tier will be perfect.
 
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