OptiMons [Slate 22: Gen 4] {Voting}

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Primape, Tauros and Crabominable?
Nice guess, but check this:

"Don't be irritated with me! ;)" --> "irritated" --> "eradicated" --> "raticate" --> "raticate-alola".
Yeah that's right. Next slate is confirmed to be Alolan Raticate plus every other alola form all at once. case = closed fam.

Decidueye: Samtendo09, The Reptile
Incineroar: G-Luke, Whammerist
 

Ludicrousity

You humour me greatly with your arrogance and c...
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Nice guess, but check this:

"Don't be irritated with me! ;)" --> "irritated" --> "eradicated" --> "raticate" --> "raticate-alola".
Yeah that's right. Next slate is confirmed to be Alolan Raticate plus every other alola form all at once. case = closed fam.

Decidueye: Samtendo09, The Reptile
Incineroar: G-Luke, Whammerist
What does irritation have to do with eratication?
 
Votes
Decidueye: The Reptile
Incineroar: G-Luke

Slate suggestions
Canines: Furfrou, Mightyena, Lycanroc/Lycanroc-Midnight
House Cats: Delcatty, Liepard, Persian/Persian-Alola, Purugly
Pride landers: Luxray, Pyroar, Zebstrika, Dodrio
Tricky Weasels: Floatzel, Furret, Zoroark Meowstic-M/Meowstic-F
 
Slate #2: Ninjask and Shedinja
slate from Exploudit

I've decided to try and optimize two Pokemon that have a lot of potential but really struggle in certain areas, with Ninjask's being low Attack and general weak coverage, Shedinja being weak, slow, and easily taken advantage of. What can you guys think of to optimize them?
 

Ludicrousity

You humour me greatly with your arrogance and c...
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Oh, and a hint for the next slate... Don't be irritated with me! ;)
Slate #2: Ninjask and Shedinja
slate from Exploudit

I've decided to try and optimize two Pokemon that have a lot of potential but really struggle in certain areas, with Ninjask's being low Attack and general weak coverage, Shedinja being weak, slow, and easily taken advantage of. What can you guys think of to optimize them?
What happened? :V
 


Ninjask [Optimized]
Abilities: Speed Boost| [HA] Tough Claws [BST: 516]
Stats: 71 HP / 110 Atk / 55 Def / 50 SpA / 70 SpD / 160 Spe
Added Moves: Earthquake, Knock Off, Pursuit, Brick Break, Close Combat, Acrobatics, Brave Bird
Summary of Changes: +10 HP, +20 Atk, +10 Def, +20 SpD



Nincada [Optimized]
Abilities: Compound Eyes| [HA] Tough Claws [BST: 376]
Stats: 61 HP / 65 Atk / 110 Def / 30 SpA / 50 SpD / 60 Spe
Added Moves: Earthquake, Brick Break
Summary of Changes: +30 HP, +20 Atk, +20 Def, +20 SpD +20 Spe



Shedinja [Optimized]
Abilities: Wonder Guard [BST: 406]
Stats: 1 HP / 110 Atk / 45 Def / 110 SpA / 30 SpD / 110 Spe
Added Moves: Earthquake, Brick Break, Healing Wish, Camouflage, Spectral Thief, Fell Stinger, U-turn, Quiver Dance
Summary of Changes: +20 Atk, +80 SpA +70 Spe

I added Nincada as a suggested Pokemon to add to the current slate. Is Shedninja being hard coded to have 1 HP unchangeable?
 
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Ninjask (optimized)


Abilitiy: Speed Boost | Technician
Stats: 61 HP | 117 Atk | 45 Def | 72 SpA | 45 SpD | 180 Spe (520 BST)
Added Moves: Acrobactics
Summary of Changes: +27 Atk, +22 SpA, -5 SpD, +20 Spe (+64 BST)

With enough Speed to revenge kill anything slower than Scarf Nihilego, Shedinja finds itself a niche... As a reliable awnser to most set up sweepers that fail to outrun it (which are numerous btw), being able to run a Focus Sash or Choice Band to deal with the Pokémon it's attempting to revenge kill. Technician also gives it more power on Aerial Ace and Bug Bite, giving it more reliable STABs

Revenge Killer (Ninjask) @ Choice Band / Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bug Bite
- Acrobactics / Aerial Ace
- U-turn
- Final Gambit

Shedinja (optimized)


Abilitiy: Wonder Guard
Stats: 1 HP | 90 Atk | 45 Def | 54 SpA | 45 SpD | 90 Spe (320 BST)
Added Moves: Taunt, Infestation, Spikes, Destiny Bond, U-turn
Summary of Changes: +24 SpA, +15 SpD, +50 Spe (+89 BST)

So all I did essencially was add some extra Speed and give it Taunt + Infestation to trap Pokémon without Super-Effective coverage. Now it can finally work as a trapper on bulkier builds. I still mantained its main weaknesses though, not to make it overpowered, Stealth Rock and any other residual damage straight up OHKOes it still, and Choiced users can always switch out, so not so threatening but don't sleep on it :)

Trappah (Shedinja) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Infestation
- Taunt / Spikes / Shadow Sneak
- Toxic / Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw / Destiny Bond / Shadow Sneak
 
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Shedinja [Optimized]
Abilities: Wonder Guard
Stats: 1 / 135 / 45 / 30 / 30 / 95 (BST: 336)
Added Moves: Earthquake
Summary of Changes: +45 Atk, +55 Spe
Description: The change of Bug to Ground is a blessing, as it is no longer weak to the common Rock-type. Also, the stat spread suggests it should be a physical attacker, with its highest stat originally being attack. As such, I boosted its attack so that it could afford to be an all-out attacker if it wants to. I also gave it usable speed and a good STAB move in Earthquake.

Sample set:

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Sneak / Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Earthquake
- X-Scissor​
 
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Ninjask [Optimized]
Abilities: Speed Boost| [HA] Tough Claws [BST: 516]
Stats: 71 HP / 110 Atk / 55 Def / 50 SpA / 70 SpD / 160 Spe
Added Moves: Earthquake, Knock Off, Pursuit, Brick Break, Close Combat, Acrobatics, Brave Bird
Summary of Changes: +10 HP, +20 Atk, +10 Def, +20 SpD



Nincada [Optimized]
Abilities: Compound Eyes| [HA] Tough Claws [BST: 376]
Stats: 61 HP / 65 Atk / 110 Def / 30 SpA / 50 SpD / 60 Spe
Added Moves: Earthquake, Brick Break
Summary of Changes: +30 HP, +20 Atk, +20 Def, +20 SpD +20 Spe

I added Nincada as a suggested Pokemon to add to the current slate. Is Shedninja being hard coded to have 1 HP unchangeable?
You can optimize Nincada if you'd like, but it will not be added officially or voted on. Just a heads up. Yes Shedinja is hardcoded to have 1 HP. I don't think you should change that. Like the Ninjask suggestion though!
 
It hurts how close my guess was..



Abilities: Speed Boost | [HA] Illusion
Stats: 61 HP / 110 Atk / 70 Def / 50 SpA / 70 SpD / 151 Spe [511 BST]
Added Moves: Bite, Brutal Swing, Knock Off, Pursuit, Sucker Punch, Torment
Summary of Changes: +20 Atk, +25 Def, +20 SpD, -10 Spe

As you may or may not know, Ninjask is the Ninja Pokemon, similarly to Greninja, but its gameplay and lore focuses more on its Bug-type features, which naturally drags down its potential. I made it Bug / Dark to reflect its Ninja-like behavior [This Pokémon is so quick, it is said to be able to avoid any attack - FireRed & LeafGreen], [Because it darts about vigorously at high speed, it is very difficult to see - Emerald]. To complement its new typing I gave it some Dark moves, notably Pursuit, Knock Off and Sucker Punch. I also gave it Illusion, since Ninjask is known for moving so fast that it can't be seen, so disguising itself doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for Ninjask. I took away some points in Speed (it's redundant, it already outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame) and spread it to its other stats, like its defenses and Attack. Its new, unique typing gives it better offensive STAB coverage with the same number of weaknesses, but without the times 4 Rock weakness. With existing moves like Swords Dance and Leech Life and new toys like the Dark-type and Illusion, Ninjask should find plenty of opportunities to SD up and sweep, or lure and kill certain Pokemon with Illusion, or force switches with a more powerful U-turn, things it couldn't dream of earlier.



Abilities: Wonder Guard / [HA] Shed Skin
Stats: 1 HP / 100 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 40 Spe [231 BST]
Added Moves: Bulldoze, Destiny Bond, Infestation, Spikes, U-turn
Summary of Changes: +10 Atk, -15 Def

Instead of focusing on an offensive Shedinja rework, I instead wanted Shedinja to be better as a utility Pokemon (which is what it does best). This is done by giving it Spikes and U-turn. This may not sound big but it's pretty big. Shedinja can naturally switch into and wall many Pokemon with Wonder Guard, so this gives it plenty of opportunities to set up Spikes. Destiny Bond is useful when the opponent switches out into something that can kill it, forcing it to not directly attack you, protecting Shedinja further. U-turn is useful to gain momentum now that Baton Pass is banned, but it has to be used carefully since Rocky Helmet or Iron Barbs can kill it instantly if it doesn't have Protective Pads equipped. Infestation is an option to trap and deal some consistent damage, which can be lethal if they cannot touch Shedinja. These moves, alongside Shedinja's existing repertoir of support moves allow it to be a powerful pivot Pokemon in OU, preferably on teams with strong hazard control (hint Mega Sableye hint). Lastly, Shed Skin is there for flavor or whatever.
 


Ninjask [Optimized]
Abilities: Levitate / Infiltrator / Compound Eyes [HA]
Stats: 70/115/85/60/60/160 (550)
Added Moves: Megahorn, Earthquake, Earth Power, Sand Tomb, Rock Slide, Stone Edge
Summary of Changes: +9 HP, +25 Atk, +40 Def, +10 SpA, +10 SpD

Baton Pass is banned and Ninjask is the fastest non-uber anyway, so away with Speed Boost. Hello Compound Eyes, Megahorn, Ground typing, and Rock coverage. Now that it has a typing unique to its line, and some actual power behind it, Ninjask is a force to actually care about. Oh, and to be reckoned with, that too.​
 


Abilitiy:
Wonder Guard
Stats: 1/95/45/30/30/74 (BST: 275)
Added Moves: Spectral Thief, Destiny Bond, U-Turn
Summary of Changes: +5 Atk, +34 Spe

Shedinja is already a decently used Pokemon in OU (At least in high ladder), especially on stall teams, so why not push it's annoying-ness from a 10 to 11? Spectral Thief is perfect for Shedinja, as it can use it's one hit to stop a setup sweeper and die, allowing for a bulky mon to come in. It also gains U-turn, allowing it to have another form of momentum now that Baton Pass is banned (If it wasn't, this thing might have been too broken thanks to SpectralPass). Destiny Bond is another way for Shedinja to stop momentum for the opponent and gain momentum for yourself, allowing a beneficial trade of this for a powerful sweeper. It does have it's flaws, however. It requires support from many Pokemon to make it effective, such as a hazard remover, and a status absorber. It is almost always a one-trick pony, so it is easily predictable. It's buffed speed and attack are nice, but aren't enough to make it a good sweeper.
 


Ninjask [Optimized]
Abilities: Speed Boost | [HA] Sturdy
Stats: 88 HP / 101 Atk / 75 Def / 50 SpA / 65 SpD / 160 Spe (BST: 540)
Added Moves: Earthquake, Earth Power, Spikes, Taunt, Sand Tomb, Mud Sport, Bulldoze, Encore, Knock Off, Rock Tomb, Steel Wing
Summary of Changes: +28 HP, +11 Atk, +30 Def, +15 SpD
With it's niche of Baton Pass gone, Ninjask needs a purpose. While most of us went the route of making Ninjask the ludicrously fast sweeper the metagame could use (I remember when noob-me in XY ran Accelgor just to beat Greninja. A good Ninjask can do the same thing, but actually be viable), I decided to go a slightly different route. I mean, yeah, Ninjask can still be an amazing sweeper, with a stupid amount of speed, good STABs in Leech Life and Earthquake, decent enough coverage via Knock Off, Swords Dance, the fact that it doesn't die to rocks on the ground, and a good Attack stat, Ninjask can certainly sweep. But, there's another, possibly even better option. You know about Deoxys-Speed, right? 180 Base Speed, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Taunt, fun stuff like that for a lead? Yeah, that's Ninjask now. After optimization, Ninjask has an amazing support movepool, and combined with it's 160 Speed and neat ability in Sturdy, Ninjask can be an amazing lead. It can set up Spikes to aid sweepers, Taunt opposing leads and walls almost 100% of the time, Encore even the fastest of walls, or just click Final Gambit for fun, and Roost for some longevity. It's new lead role is also the reason why Ninjask gained a pretty decent amount of bulk, so it may take a hit or two without Sturdy's help. From Baton Pass lead to Hazard setting lead/anti-lead and sweeper, Ninjask can now survive in the OU tier.
Also, the reason why I gave it specifically 88 HP is so that it doesn't OHKO Max HP Landorus-T with Final Gambit.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
fug I missed voting my b



Ninjask [Optimized]
Abilities: Speed Boost | [HA] Adaptability
Stats: 61 HP / 109 Atk / 45 Def / 50 SpA / 50 SpD / 175 Spe [BST 485]
Added Moves: Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Acrobatics, Lunge, Knock Off, Taunt
Summary of Changes: +19 Atk, +15 Spe

The obvious thing to focus on Ninjask is its insane speed stat, which leads to 2 primary camps - revenge killers and really fast hazard layers. Ninjask can do both with the same set, having access to power Adaptability Acrobatics and Lunges / U-Turns and access to both spikes. While 109 Atk with Adaptability and 175 speed seem really scary, keep in mind that Ninjask's coverage is pretty limited, only having its STABs and Knock Off. Also, in order to fully abuse Flying STAB it needs to give up its item, which hurts its damage output.



Shedinja [Optimized]
Abilities: Wonder Guard
Stats: 1 HP / 99 Atk / 45 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 40 Spe [BST 245]
Added Moves: Spikes, Toxic Spikes, U-Turn, Pain Split, Curse, Trick Room
Summary of Changes: +9 Atk

There are two things that come to mind when I think of our spooky bug friend - Shedinja Stall and a potential pivot. U-Turn and hazards help with both of these, allowing it to do stuff with its free turn, whether it be stacking spikes or giving you free momentum. Curse lets it sacrifice itself to potentially force a switch, while Pain Split is basically Super Fang on Shedinja. Trick Room is more of a gimmicky addition, giving Trick Room teams an interesting TR setter.​
 
Making bad Pokémon better is something I've been interested in, and I kind of thought of doing something like this by myself. So, I'll put my ideas here, while following a few of my own rules.



Ninjask [Optimized]
Abilities: Speed Boost | [HA] Infiltrator
Stats: 73 HP / 110 Atk / 45 Def / 50 SpA / 75 SpD / 160 Spe
Added Moves: Shadow Sneak, Shadow Claw, Sky Attack, Acrobatics, Tailwind, Lunge, Quick Attack, Teleport, Fly, Smokescreen
Summary of Changes: +12 HP, +20 Atk, +25 SpD

Ninjask is frail Defensively, but with it being a Bug-type, this is justified. Ninjask also has a double weakness to Stealth Rock, so it's impossible to switch to, except for a Grass or Fighting-type attack. With Ninjask's Speed, Lunge can weaken a Physical attacker and make it possible to survive their attack. Honestly, Ninjask could be best as a Physical sweeper itself with an update to its Physical pool and a bit more Attack. Ninja are pretty sneaky, thus Shadow Sneak. Ninjask also gets Shadow Claw for another claw-based attack. This one will at least let Ninjask damage Steel-types normally, whereas Dig and Night Slash were its only options before. Acrobatics can be used alongside a Focus Sash, or a Power Herb with Sky Attack.


Shedinja [Optimized]
Abilities: Wonder Guard (Now protects Shedinja from any type of damage other than burns and super effective moves, and Z-Moves.)
Stats: 1 HP / 110 Atk / 45 Def / 65 SpA / 75 SpD / 130 Spe
Added Moves: Roost (haha), Fly, Thunder Wave, Swords Dance, U-turn, Destiny Bond, Trick Room, Defog, Psychic
Summary of Changes: +20 Atk, +35 SpA, +45 SpD, +90 Spe

Not that there's any point in boosting Shedinja's Special Defense.

Wonder Guard gets a huge boost that makes it as almost as wonderful as possible. No more instant KO by Stealth Rocks/Spikes and poison. Shedinja becomes the ultimate switch-in, immune to nearly anything. This even includes recoil and crash damage. However, being weak to Fire makes it still susceptible to burns.

It's still pretty ninja-y, so why not give it high Speed? Its new Speed lets it get off a Thunder Wave or a Will-o-Wisp on a super effective attacker before they actually attack and KO Shedinja. It can switch into an attack it's immune to, Swords Dance the next turn, and U-turn the opponent's switch the turn after that. It can also reliably use Destiny Bond when it knows it's about to faint.​
 
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Ninjask [Optimized]
Abilities: Speed Boost/Shadow Shield (HA: Infiltrator)
Stats: 61/95/65/50/50/190
Added Moves: Fell Stinger, Mirror Move, Close Combat, Spikes, Throat Chop, Snatch, Poison Jab
Summary of Changes: +5 Attack, +20 Defense, +30 Speed

Ninjas are all about blending into the shadows, and making a shield out of shadow is very fitting for that. Shadow Shield helps make up for Ninjask's terribly poor bulk, especially when combined with the +20 Defense buff. This allows it to survive a hit and therefore set up with Swords Dance, set up while attacking with Z-Mirror Move, or just lay down some spikes to support the team.

Fighting typing represents Ninjas being trained in Martial Arts, but also acts competitively by giving Ninjask a way to break Steels. I gave it Close Combat because Ninjask has no legs (the limbs are arms afaik) so High Jump Kick is out of the equation, and it still does the job very well. Spikes gives it some utility while keeping in theme, and lets it do something else besides attacking. Throat Chop and Poison Jab are both flavourful coverage moves, and Throat Chop really needs some love - I forgot it even existed for a long time. Fell Stinger fits in with the assassination part of being a ninja and helps it set up even more.

Sorry for the broken images, I can't get rid of them.​
 
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