Project ORAS NU Theorymons

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erisia

Innovative new design!
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I'm going to do my best to be active on qq's server in the run up to sun and moon so we can get some more theorymon games going and potentially identify some suspects. I'll count your post towards next week's contest Based Sexy Pants.
 

It got Skill Link and Pin Missile, giving it dual 125 base STAB attacks off of a 125 Attack stat. The only problem is it's Speed making it outclassed by pretty much everything else. This could maybe see some potential on Rain teams though, abusing Swift Swim.
I believe it gets Rock Polish, and if you do a set like RP/Skill Link/Rock Blast/EQ (or Knock Off) I believe you can cover basically everything you need to. Even then, its main flaw is that its typing is pretty bad defensively and it doesn't have too much opportunities to set up. At least Double-Dance Rhydon has an Electric immunity.
 

erisia

Innovative new design!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Meganium + Grass/Fairy type + Unaware + Play Rough + Moonblast,
Altaria + Dragon/Fairy type.

Congratulations to this week's winners, and commiserations to Stoutland who was this close to dominating the metagame. Thanks a bunch for the excellent posts on this week's slate entries. Here's this week's slate.

Vanilluxe + Poison-type + Sludge Bomb + Poison Jab
Ludicolo + Leaf Storm
Gastrodon + Stealth Rock
Trevenant + Shadow Sneak

Congratulations to ChrystalFalchion for winning the best post competition and providing the last two Pokemon on this slate!

Aurorus + Sheer Force
Golem + Head Smash

Me, nv, cyanize, and MaroGod also worked on a Whiscash team for a while and were somewhat successful! Mixed Pyroar and Sub + Nasty Plot + Two Attacks Jynx apply pressure to offense while Guts Skuntank provides Speed control and anti-hazard support, while Vileplume and Miltank form a good defensive core and provide hazards. while taking care of threats that Whiscash dislikes.

Whiscash @ Life Orb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Vileplume @ Black Sludge
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Moonlight

Miltank @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 240 HP / 168 Def / 80 SpD / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Body Slam
- Milk Drink
- Heal Bell

Pyroar @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hyper Voice
- Return
- Will-O-Wisp

Jynx @ Leftovers
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock

Skuntank @ Black Sludge
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 108 SpD / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab
- Pursuit
- Defog
 
Vanilluxe + Poison Type, Sludge Bomb & Poison Jab.

Um...why? It makes no sense flavour wise (unless mouldy ice cream). It does take away its Fighting weakness, and give Bug and Fairy resistances, which is nice, but it also gives Ground and Psychic weaknesses. Better than before, but I still wouldn't use it.

Leaf Storm Ludicolo

Interesting. It would certainly make it much more powerful, although it couldn't run it on its Rain Dance set as the stat drops would force it out. It could run a decent Assault Vest set I guess. Good, but nothing remarkable IMO.

Stealth Rock Gastrodon

The trouble is, where would it fit it in? It needs Scald, Earth Power and Recover, without Clear Smog or Toxic it's set up fodder for pretty much every bulky sweeper. Without Ice Beam it can't scratch Grass types. I don't think Gastrodon would be able to use it effectively.

Shadow Sneak Trevanant

Now we're talking. STAB priority is always a good thing, and actually gives it some more physical moves to use its good Attack stat with. It could also revenge kill Mismagius offensive Xatu and weakened Mesprit. Very nice

Sheer Force Aurorus

This would make it a far more effective wallbreaker, as now it would be able to take full advantage of its great movepool. Sheer Force + Life Orb is basically a free X1.67 power boost, if this thing gets in safely something's going to die. Even defensive Calm Mind Mega Audino can be 2HKOed after Stealth Rock.

Head Smash Golem

With recoil out of the equation, Head Smash is very spammable as it hits really hard and there's nothing immune to it. Combined with Golem's good base 120 Attack, and heads will roll. Unfortunately it's still slow and has easily exploited weaknesses. I think if this happened, Golem would eclipse Rhydon, as it's slightly faster, has Sucker Punch and a stronger STAB. It could also use Head Smash in place of Explosion on its suicide lead set akin to Archeops.
 

Em

formerly Based Sexy Pants
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Audino: 354-416 (86.3 - 101.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

This pleasures me.

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252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Mismagius: 258-306 (79.6 - 94.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom: 236-282 (97.9 - 117%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


Cathy has issues with 1 vs. 1'ing other Pokemon, as many teams run Grass checks, and Ghost checks. However, if Cathy is late game or gets some nice 50-50's, she can wear down these checks easily enough that the opponent may be forced to leave their Ghosties out to die. This also helps her revenge, which is very nice. I approve. On top of that, this screws up offensive Mesprit a lot when you have U-turn/Volt Switch support.

0 SpA Lanturn Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mesprit: 58-69 (19.2 - 22.9%) -- 3.8% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mesprit: 186-218 (61.7 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

80.9 - 95.3% is very respectable, and after SR is a very decent roll to kill.

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252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Aurorus Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Audino: 257-304 (62.6 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Aurorus Earth Power vs. 40 HP / 208+ SpD Lanturn: 270-320 (67.3 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Aurorus Earth Power vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 211-250 (68.7 - 81.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Dank. Probably balanced due to it's typing, and it already has 2 decent abilities anyways. This is pretty lit.

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252+ Atk Choice Band Golem Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Audino: 313-370 (76.3 - 90.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Audino: 297-349 (72.4 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Slightly stronger Aggron but even slower, and with Sucker Punch, and kinda better typing maybe? Arguably worse, arguably better. It seems alright but it's a bit too similar to Aggron for my tastes. Then again, we all know I'm biased simply because it's a Rock type not called Sudowoodo. If this was the Sudowoodo slate I would be calling it a lord undoubtedly, so idk, maybe I'm biased. Seems very cookie cutter to me though.

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Ludiloco and Gastrodon don't feel like they're receiving anything of value. This tier already has many valuable hazard stackers, and Gastrodon likes it's 4 moves, so it seems weird to use. Ludicolo generally likes to just sweep people, so Leaf Storm seems silly to me. I'd rather click Hydro Pump, and if I want a strongly Grass type you already know the first thing I'm doing up is hitting up my friend Exeggutor.
 

erisia

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Time to vote imo. Pick your two favorite mons by Sunday evening!

Vanilluxe
+ Poison-type + Sludge Bomb + Poison Jab
Ludicolo
+ Leaf Storm
Gastrodon
+ Stealth Rock
Trevenant
+ Shadow Sneak
Aurorus
+ Sheer Force
Golem
+ Head Smash
 
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erisia

Innovative new design!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
+ Shadow Sneak,
+ Poison-type + Sludge Bomb + Poison Jab

Congratulations to the above winners, and here's your new slate! This will be the last round before Sun and Moon so we're going to have lots of options!

+ Normal/Fighting typing.
+ Normal/Ground typing.
+ Pursuit.
+ Gooey.
+ Focus Blast.
+ Rough Skin + Spikes + Diamond Storm.

+ Poison/Dark typing + Dry Skin.
+ Belly Drum + Technician.

Based Sexy Pants also won the competition and made two nominations:

+ Grass/Rock typing + Head Smash
+ Illusion


You have until Sunday 13th November to discuss this slate! Have fun!

Also, Quite Quiet managed to get tournaments working on the server, so we're going to have our first Theorymons tournament at 20:00 GMT tonight! Be there or be square.
 
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Hariyama gets STAB Fake Out and Facade I guess? Don't see much else use for it, though a Toxic Orb Guts set at least has priority over something like Ursaring, so yeah.

Bouffalant now has STAB Earthquake, which improves its offensive capabilities, and in fact the added Grass weakness is negated by Sap Sipper. Cool.

Shiftry already has 4MSS, so while Pursuit is cool, I'm not TOO sure of its effectiveness.

Muk has always had trouble with physical attacks, though from the looks of it, this ability only boosts offensive sets. Huh.

Focus Blast Vivillon with Compoundeyes? Yeesh.

Gigalith now has a niche in perfectly accurate Diamond Storm. Aside from Ground, most of its weaknesses have contacting moves in this tier, so it could be neat.

Seviper's problem of being slow still remains, though STAB Sucker and Dry Skin do help it just a little bit.

Dewgong would be fun to say the least. I think it gets Ice Shard or Aqua Jet, and that combined with Belly Drum makes it win against things that don't resist it. Its typing isn't the greatest though, so I think it will manageable.
 

Em

formerly Based Sexy Pants
Loving these new slates. :D

Gets STAB Fake Out, and Facade, giving it another alternative to the CB set, and powering up Fake Out on AV sets. Also gets Ghost immunity, and with Guts is the ultimate Ghost check. Pretty sweet!

252+ Atk Guts Hariyama Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Mega Audino: 225-265 (54.8 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
CC is a roll so this makes it not a roll, and you don't get defense drops.

252+ Atk Guts Hariyama Facade (140 BP) vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 285-336 (65.8 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Knock Off when Mushy has no item still doesn't 2HKO, so if it's Colbur, or if it clicks Moonlight on Knock Off, Knock Off is not a reliable way to kill it, as you are taking Burn/Poison damage every turn. Therefore Facade is a solid option to deal with Musharna.

Obvious immediate drawback to using this set is gaining a Fighting weakness though.
252 Atk Primeape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hariyama: 510-600 (118.8 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It can't switch in, but even Scarf Primeape one shots.

252 SpA Life Orb Floatzel Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 185-218 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
With no recovery, AV Yama will have a lot more issues switching into special attackers with Fighting coverage. Other than that, this is a pretty sweet slate.


Bouffalant is a really cool, yet fairly niche Pokemon in NU currently. It notably checks Specs Swellow/Grass types depending on the ability, and can definitely do work with it's amazing STAB Head Charge. With Ground typing it will be able to check even more Pokemon, and with Sap Sipper won't mind the added Grass weakness. In fact, with Sap Sipper Bouffalant will be immune to Electric, Grass, and Ghost type attacks.
With STAB EQ, it will be able to consistently 2HKO Rhydon, and Steelix when running a Choice Band, whereas before it was a roll both times, unless SR were up.
+2 252+ Atk Bouffalant Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 366-432 (88.4 - 104.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
On SD sets it can now kill Rhydon most of the time when it switches in, which is nice since prior Rhydon would have done minimum 43% with it's own EQ.


With Pursuit, Shiftry can become a fairly decent trapper, being able to do minimum 60% to Mesprit switching out when not carrying Colbur Berry. However I still feel that I would rather use the likes of Skuntank (or even Arbok gets Pursuit now, and has Unnerve so if they carry Colbur that doesn't even matter).
252+ Atk Life Orb Arbok Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mesprit: 101-120 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
This is LO Adamant, because idk what Arbok would even run, but that does just as much as Shiftry Pursuit (within 2%), and it doesn't have to worry about Colbur Berry (or random Signal Beam/U-turn). Therefore I see Pursuit on Shiftry as just removing it's potential to run moves like SD or Defog.


Gooey is a pretty cool ability, however I feel that it's not a big enough buff to justify nominating as a slot over something else. It can't personally take advantage of Gooey on Curse sets, and if you can outspeed something and beat it 1 vs. 1, it probably shouldn't be staying in, so they'll probably go to their special attacker, which doesn't mind Gooey in the slightest. Also Poison Touch is really annoying to things switching in, so I feel this may even be outclassed by normal Muk.


+1 252 SpA Vivillon Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 362-428 (102.8 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Vivillon Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 172-204 (41.5 - 49.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I don't think we need more reasons to justify this Pokemon being #666 in the Pokedex. Not to mention this thing has Compound Eyes. I really feel like this is pretty unhealthy, but then again, I feel normal Vivillon is unhealthy considering that if it feels like clicking Hurricane instead of Sleep Powder it can neuter AV Magmortar (roll to 2HKO after SR), which is one of it's most common dedicated checks. Please don't vote this if you have a soul.


This Pokemon has always been pretty niche. I think the only time I've seen this in NU was with a Choice Band. With Diamond Storm, it now has a reliable STAB that doesn't miss 1/5 times, and it has a chance to get that defense boost. Rough Skin + Spikes can make this a cool alternative to things like Garbodor, being able to Spike stack while apply constant damage to physical attackers. Also that would make this a pretty decent Normal check (especially against Kangaskhan, rof).
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith: 244-289 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Now yes, that 2HKO's, but it also takes a bunch of damage from Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin, taking 53% damage if I did the math properly (I am really bad at math so someone please correct me if I did it wrong). This leaves it really susceptible to being revenge killed. Overall a pretty sweet slate.


Getting Dark typing is obviously super sweet, as is Dry Skin. It now gets 2 abilities, on top of it's Poison status immunity. Seviper is already pretty scary, ask MARCU5theBAW5, I got body-bagged by it. Anyways, we all know what Poison/Dark typing does in NU, thanks to Skuntank. The difference between this and Skuntank I feel really lies in it's offensive prowess. Seviper has always been a pretty decent offensive Pokemon, being able to use it's amazing coverage to check a lot of the NU meta. I'm assuming the special set would run something like Sludge Wave, Dark Pulse, Flamethrower, and Giga Drain. Just to let you guys know that it's actually decent, I'll give you calcs for all 4 moves.
252 SpA Life Orb Seviper Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Audino: 276-328 (67.3 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Seviper Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mesprit: 182-216 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Seviper Flamethrower vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 255-302 (72.4 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Seviper Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 12 SpD Gastrodon: 411-489 (96.4 - 114.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Seviper Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 302-359 (72.9 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And those were all just LO Timid. This thing has literally nothing that switches into it. In fact, with this coverage, theoretically the only types that you don't hit super effectively are Dark, Dragon, Electric, Fighting, Fire, Flying, Normal, and Poison. Everything else takes super effective damage. Overall this is also another pretty awesome slate.


Dewgong has always been disappointing, even with access to Thick Fat, solely for the reason that it doesn't get Scald. It would be pretty cool with Belly Drum Technician, if only for the fact that it still doesn't do damage.
+6 252+ Atk Mystic Water Technician Dewgong Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mesprit: 241-285 (66.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Like yeah, Mesprit is bulky, but this is gonna be so easy to revenge kill. If this Mon had decent Speed maybe it could do something, but even with Adamant, and Mystic Water it can't even do 80% to a Mesprit. Sure it can one shot Mons like Tauros, but you'd have to keep this late game to do any work. And even then it has a SR weakness so you're taking possibly 75% just to switch this in and click Belly Drum. Overall I feel that this is outclassed by a lot of other Belly Drum users in the tier, none of which have any usage what so ever besides Linoone.

Time for the BSP slates. You guys already know what the first one is going to be.


I nominate Sudowoodo with Rock/Grass typing, and Head Smash. I made a post about this on the first page, so please check it out.


Secondly I nominate Honedge with Illusion (I justify this nomination with it being Ghost type). Now you may be thinking to yourself, "Honedge? What a wasteful slot to put on my team. I would never use this." And this is where you are sadly mistaken. See, after using Mono Baby Ghost for a video on my YouTube channel, I realized that Honedge is actually fairly viable in the NU meta granted all of the opponents Dark types are down. If you want to say that 1 Pokemon has to be down for this to be viable doesn't make it viable, I suggest you look at CM Barrier Mushy. Regardless, this Pokemon is a great revenge killer, and set up sweeper. I have several replays of this doing work, this one being the most prominent.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-461582081
Taking advantage of it's amazing bulk, Honedge can set up fairly easily, especially with Illusion. Once at +4, Shadow Sneak can do tons of damage to all opposing Pokemon. With being probably the only Pokemon line that can't take advantage of No Guard, Illusion would be an amazing buff. Illusion is definitely an underrated ability in Pokemon (spoken by a Balanced Hackmons player, not a UU player) so I would love to see this come true.
 

Em

formerly Based Sexy Pants
The team I used to win the 4 person tourney (R.I.P. that Dodrio roll Shaneghoul). Pretty nice, but has issues switching into physical Pyroar, so could probably be improved on.

Flower Child (Meganium) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Happiness: 8
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis

Ⓖ~Ⓖ (Bronzor) @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Happiness: 8
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Psywave
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Rest

CripplingSpaghetti (Sandslash) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
Happiness: 8
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Rapid Spin

SEA (Lanturn) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Happiness: 8
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA / 208 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect
- Volt Switch

XxMLG_SNIPERxX (Xatu) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Happiness: 8
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- U-turn

黒子 (Mismagius) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Happiness: 8
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
 
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Guess I'll post my team since I made finals (4 man tour), bear in mind this was made in about 5 mins just before the tour started so there's definitely a fair few flaws.

Dodrio @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Frustration
- Pursuit
- Knock Off

Pyroar @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Iron Tail

Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave

Torterra @ White Herb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Wood Hammer
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Mismagius @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Nasty Plot
- Memento

venom @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Aqua Tail
- Pursuit


Dodrio's always been one of my fav mons so when I saw it got reckless I wanted to start there. I figured CB was overkill since reckless already essentially gave it cb so I went with scarf, this also meant I could revenge kill shell smash tort which I had heard was busted. Next I wanted a way to get rid of flying/normal resists so I went w/ wisp roar. This is especially nice on physical roar since you pretty much need a sturdy rock type to answer to it since it's power is actually insane when physical due to such high power stabs. At this point I wanted a sturdy rocker so I threw on regi as it's newly acquired solid rock makes it a great check to normals and fires. From here I was looking fairly ground weak and I had heard tort was broken af due to thick fat + ss so I added that to take advantage of grounds. This mon literally didn't 0 in both games and served p much as a dead slot that I invested a decent amount of support into lol. Next I wanted a fighting resit and fairy type missy seemed really good in this role, np 2 attacks is really all the coverage it needs and while taunt would've been a nice 4th I decided to throw on memento to aid tort in setting up. Finally I was looking really tspikes and psychic weak so I added a cb dark type arbok, while this really didn't do anything due to and early scald burn it's a fun set that definitely seems good at least. CB sucker + gunk are strong as hell, aqua tail over eq due to levitate probo and pursuit is really nice for trapping psychics as they can't actually touch you. The goal with the team is really just wear down the opponents team with your breakers then clean w/ scarf dodrio, would've worked in finals had it not been for a min roll BB but alas. Thanks for hosting the tour erisia it was really fun, really appreciate everything you do with this thread, it's a really cool idea. Would definitely be down to join any future ones!
 
Normal/Fighting Hariyama
Perfect neutral coverage with Facade + CC + Knock Off and a super powerful Guts Facade and Fake Out sounds pretty nice. Plus, a new immunity doesn't hurt. What does hurt, however, is a new Fighting weakness when Gurdurr and even Machoke (wonder why we never buffed that) exist.

Normal/Ground Bouffalant
STAB EQ will hit hard and Sap Sipper negates the new Grass weakness. Natu bad, if I say so. Though, the weaknesses to Scald and Ice Beam truly suck. Now, if it got Horn Leech along with this, it would be a little better

Pursuit Shiftry
Can now trap and deal massive damage to stuff like Musharna, or if you're Scarfed, non-Scarf Jynx. Nice on paper, but a lot of the Pokemon in NU and Pu that are weak to Dark usually run something to deal with Dark-types and many of them are faster than Shiftry, which makes this not the best buff. Best use for it is probably just for trapping a Mesprit/Jynx locked into Psychic.

Gooey Muk
Makes sense flavor wise, but this probably won't help much. Considering Muk's speed, it will take ages for anything to be slower than it, plus it's Physical bulk isn't the best, so it an't dish out many speed drops. For team support, then, yeah, it's decent.

Focus Blast Vivillon
0_0
With Compound Eyes, Steel and Rock-types are no longer a problem. After a Quiver or 2, GG NO RE, it's over! Well, Bronzor exists, but otherwise, IT'S OVER.
Spikes and Diamond Storm + Rough Skin Gigalith
Giving it Spikes gives it a niche over Regirock as a hazard setter and Diamond Storm will be great to have. Plus, Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet wittles down physical attackers a la Ferrothorn. In fact, this thing is kind of like a Rock Ferrothorn with slightly more Attack and slightly less SpDef.

This would be great....
THEN GAME FREAK GIVES IT SAND STREAM


Poison/Dark Dry Skin Seviper
With a fantastic typing and immunity to Scald burns, Seviper is now a bit better, especially physical sets. Physical sets get STAB priority and can switch into stuff like Mantine for free.. You could even run a Coil set, which is cool. Though, the low speed still hurts.

Belly Drum Technician Dewgong
0_0...0_0
Decent enough Attack? Check
Technician boosted Ice Shard? Check
Technician boosted Aqua Jet? Check
Other coverage options like Facade, Technician boosted Icicle Spear (for Gastro), and Drill Run? Check.

If it wasn't for the Stealth Rock weakness and Quagsire and Clefairy countering it, this would be kinda broken.

Head Smashing Grass/Rock Sudowoodo
Grass/Rock is a great typing, plus Rock Head Smash and pretty good coverage means that Sudowoodo is pretty darn good now. Slap a Choice Band on it with recoiless Head Smash, recoiless STAB Wood Hammer, Sucker Punch, and Fire Punch or EQ or something and you've got a recipe for a dangerous tree.

Also, because it's mandatory....
B, I'M STILL IN THE CUT
S U D O W O O D O
Illusion Honedge
One sentence is all I need:
Mindgames with Swords Dance.

That is all.

Wait, there's more. The Knock Off weakness kinda sucks as NU lacks a really good Knock Off absorber other then Mega Audion Honedge could be disguised as. Nothing in there tier even gets Justified unless you want to run that great Growlithe + Honedge core.
 

yogi

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I'm sorry but I don't understand the logic of applying normal typing to Hariyama. It does absolutely nothing apart from adding a fighting weakness and a basically useless ghost immunity to it. It boosts no moves, bar the weak Fake Out, that it commonly uses on the specially defensive set and would only benefit it if it were to use a Toxic Orb Facade set or some sort of Guts set, which are not optimal in this meta at all. The ghost immunity really isn't needed because if you're the guts set you just Knock Off and if you're the Thick Fat set then Will-o-Wisp is going to cripple you regardless. There are better users of Facade in the tier, being primarily Zangoose (which also has access to a reasonable speed tier) but also Swellow, both of which are able to pull off this niche with far greater and generally more consistent results. I'm just at a loss to why you'd want this...


This is a way more interesting one and I think it would help revitalise this mon's role in our (theorymon) meta. I'd be rather skeptical of just receiving the ground typing, as it just adds more weaknesses without giving much to the mon bar a STAB Earthquake; however, this is conjunction with Sap Sipper makes it a fantastic check to grass types and gives it the ability to do more with its ability, still checking things such as Vivillon, Vileplume and Lilligent. Really there's not much more to say about the addition of ground typing but it allows it to have a bigger niche whilst still retaining its previous one, which is sick.


This is another one that is interesting, but I'm not entirely sold on it. In theory Pursuit would be a fantastic move for it to have, but in actuality what move would you forfeit for this move to be on it? Knock Off and Sucker Punch are given moves that almost all physical and mixed Shiftry's should have, and Leaf Storm is extremely valuable coverage that's able to hit more defensively oriented walls for a huge chunk; this leaves (hah tree pun :3) one moveslot left, which is hotly contended with by the likes of Explosion, Defog, Rock Slide, etc., meaning that it may be difficult to give up one of these coverage moves for it. The fact that Shiftry is almost always on a timer thanks to LO makes Pursuit a less viable option too, as it could just be whittling itself down for no reason.


Why... It's not a physical wall, has barely any place in NU and Gooey would do almost zero for it; except maybe make it cannon fodder to slow something down for another teammate. Next.


I originally looked at this and thought 'Omg, that'd be so cool!'... But then I slowly thought, what does Focus Blast really do. Yes, it hits Steelix, hard; but that's about it. The thing is, if you're running the Sub set then you already don't have enough room to run this and if you're running the Focus Sash set then Energy Ball does about the same for you whilst also being able to hit things like Lanturn and Rhydon harder. It seems like a fun bit of tech, but nothing that really shakes up Vivillon too much.


I'm not sure how I feel about this one. While Gigalith does boast admirable defense and a decent amount of hp, I feel as if the addition of Rough Skin wouldn't benefit it all that much, as it's still hit extremely hard by every lead and lacks any form of reliable recovery. It also doesn't have the benefit of a secondary typing to help it with its 5 weaknesses (in comparison to something like Garchomp or even Ferroseed) meaning that its pretty much going to die from a super effective hit or two. Spikes and Diamond Storm seem like interesting additions, but as previously stated I don't really think it'd get much chance to utilise these moves.


This seems cool and all, but considering we gave the buff of dark typing to another snake in Arbok, it kinda seems redundant. I mean getting Dry Skin means it can soft check a few things Arbok can't, but overall Arbok seems like the better user of this duel-typing.


*sniff sniff* hmm *sniff* is that *sniff sniff* the lesser spotted gimmick I see? In all seriousness, this seems like it could be niche in a way, but this 'buff' is crazy and totally unexpected lol. I mean Linoone still does the whole priority thing better too. I'd use it though :3


This is by far the coolest one and is definitely a justified one too. Getting the grass typing is something people have wanted this 'tree' to have since it was introduced in Gen 2 and we were all left scratching our heads wondering what type it was if it wasn't grass. Access to Rock Head plus Head Smash is something that Rhydon should have gives it a distinct niche, along with a powerful grass STAB. The main drawback is that it's slow but I could see it being used in either Tailwind or more likely Trick Room.


Funnily enough me and Lucianvega have messed around with this mon recently, and I think me and Carcy also have too. It's unique typing a myriad of resistances make it cool on paper, and in practice it can also perform decently as it's able to set-up on a lot. I think Illusion could be fun, but it's rather situation in regards to hazards and the mons that it'd want to pose as (e.g. normal types, rock types).

Sorry that this isn't overly detailed, but there's not much to write about these ones :/

Also poke towards erisia to start voting :3
 
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