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Welcome to the latest edition of the Team Rater Competition! The tier this time around will be SM OU. For each round we'll post a team, and participants will have one week to complete a rate of said team. When the round is over, the participants who submitted the best rates will move onto the next round. If you are eliminated and want to receive feedback on your rate, the hosts will be more than happy to provide that upon request. Each round will last one week. Failure to rate the team within the one week time period will result in disqualification unless you're able to give us a valid reason. Please only sign up if you can commit to rating one team every week for the next month. If you're currently involved in or are looking to start rating OU teams, I highly encourage you to participate as this promises to be a great learning experience. Here's to a fun and competitive tournament!
Important notes:
The winner will be accepted as a member in our Rating League!
Shoutouts in the room intro of the RMT room and in RMT news
Your name on a trophy-banner
The rates in the final two rounds will count towards the Team Rater
The winner will be awarded voice status in the RMT room on PS if they have shown an interest in getting involved.
Each round will last one week. Failure to rate the team within the one week time period will result in disqualification unless you're able to give us a valid reason. Please only sign up if you can commit to rating one team every week for the next month.
If you are eliminated and would like some feedback on your rate and how you can improve going forward, feel free to ask us.
Participants please PM your rate to Team Pokepals, mil and Enki. You have until 23:59 EST on Monday, 10th April to submit your rate. Also, if you were not tagged in the last round and didn't submit a rate and would still like to submit a rate, please send it as soon as possible and at the least we can provide you with feedback. Good luck!
Just like in the last competition, we will post the best rate of the round, and a round summary with a quick overview of the stuff we liked in your rates. Have fun and good luck to all!
As the new fastest non scarf mon in the tier, I decided to roll with Mega Alakazam. Mega Alakazam can deal with fast non scarf threats like Ash Greninja and pressure offensive teams as they'll need to rely on a scarf mon to revenge Mega Alakazam. Taunt enables Alakazam to prevent fat mons from healing up and can also prevent them from setting up.
Tapu Lele was the mon I wanted to run with Mega Alakazam to give it a boost for Psychic, and to also protect it against priority moves. Tapu Lele with Choice Specs helps break down fatter teams and can work with Alakazam to wear down steel types, namely Mega Metagross. Thunderbolt is run to 2HKO Celesteela, and removing/weakening Celesteela can help Mega Alakazam clean up late game.
Even though Mega Alakazam is very fast and it's safe from priority in Psychic Terrain, scarf mons like Garchomp were still a threat and I wanted something to deal with some of those faster mons and decided to go with Scarf Greninja. Greninja can revenge kill Volcarona (Rock Slide is run for this), Scarf Garchomp, Terrakion, Nihilego and it's able to provide momentum with U-turn.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Magma Storm
- Taunt
- Earth Power
The team felt a bit weak to Celesteela and had difficulty with defeating AV Tangrowth quickly, so I went with Heatran. Heatran also provides Stealth Rock and can help trap Tangrowth and other mons like Chansey to make it easier for Tapu Lele and Mega Alakazam to pick up KO's.
Landorus-Therian @ Rockium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
The team had no ground resist/immunity and I wanted a set up sweeper so I chose Lando-T. An offensive set with double dance allows Lando-T to blow past fat teams and Rock Polish enables it to become a threat to mons that would normally outspeed it like Mega Metagross. Like Tapu Lele, Lando-T can help punch holes in the opposing team for another team member to clean up.
Finally, the team was really weak to Ash Greninja and Scizor was a bit annoying as well, so Keldeo was chosen in the final slot. In the case that Greninja goes down, Keldeo can revenge or deal a good amount of damage to scarf mons and Volcarona.
one of the few problems i have with teams like this is they struggle to keep up with metagame trends. tangrowth, protean greninja, special pheromosa (particularly rapid spin + 3 attacks which is the best set), choice band zygarde, and calm mind tapu fini have all been seeing a huge rise in usage and this team has very little to deal with these threats as they passively break down your team through out the match until you eventually get the hands. in addition to this, your over reliance on tapu fini means this team will eventually fall to any rain team, charizard-y, spikes stacking, and / or ash greninja. let's also not forget how this team cannot win against stall. some of the threats i listed can be played around while others cannot.
in terms of team structure, it seems as you are focusing on making a solid metagross offense team. this is understandable due to the high win rates / consistency these teams possess. with this said, let me say this team has the correct fundamentals with metagross being a nightmare to play as scizor will be forced to u-turn making it predictable to play around and how ferrothorn, celesteela,... will be forced in to awkward situations. i see you have supplemented the match up issues against offense with an ash greninja. scarf garchomp is a great glue to this team because it provides more flexibility in the match up vs offense. fat landorus-t is a staple on many teams which is an understandable pick.
so this is my problem with the team. you have the checks. you have to win condition. you have the synergy. but what about overload? the only way to keep up pressure with these types of teams is volt-turn and hazard pressure. my first suggestion is to use spikes over u-turn on greninja. this change seems odd as you will be locked into the move, but greninja will often be forced to u-turn and getting up spikes when there is a tangrowth in the back for example allows you to gain initiative as your opponent will be pressured to remove hazards themselves more than you will half to. that is the nature of the hazard game. spikes punishes a lot of metagross checks meaning magnezone is not even needed. magnezone is more often than not a way to influence your opponent's plays than trap steel types. with spikes + metagross pressuring scizor, this team will not have to worry about breaking due to the possibility of yourself double switching or fishing for an attack raise.
like i said, volt turn is also another thing you want to have in the hazard game as it allows you to force a kill or residually wear down the opponent's team which is good for ash greninja late game. tapu koko over magnezone is my suggestion as not only does it push the hazard game into your favor, but its ridiculous speed tier prevents greninja, pheromosa (provided you are at full health), choice band zygarde, and charizardy from getting switch-ins. tapu koko's use almost entirely encompasses what magnezone brought to this team. it is a good change.
now, think about it. you have spikes greninja for initiative and tapu koko to force the hazard game in your favor. do you miss magnezone? do you really need to defog if your hazards are in a better position than your opponent's hazards? to end this off, i would try to fit z-fly on your landorus-t in some manner because this team's weakness to tangrowth is ridiculous and your only way of beating it is metagross. obviously, you have spikes + volt turn, but sometimes the game plan will never execute perfectly. defensive landorus-t brought very little outside of rocky helmet chip on metagross. opposing metagross will not be as problematic as most of your team outspeeds it now and tapu fini will generally just nature's madness it for the chip. most metagross are not even running ice punch meaning offensive landorus-t can still check it. the other pro about flyz landorus-t is the set can actually get rocks on stall meaning the combination of that and spikes from greninja means metagross and tapu koko can body bag stall if you play right (tapu fini is a very safe pivot for this team).
smaller changes:
- hammer arm > earthquake. the tapu koko change made this team weaker to ferrothorn.
- thunder punch > zen headbutt. electric terrain thunder punch lets you obliterate defensive cores and actually invalidates scizor as a check if spikes are up (!!!)
- a well played scarf tapu lele may be a problem but you can outplay too. consider pursuit > ice punch if this is a continuous problem.
Hello friend! Even if the archetype of Metagross - AshNinja [+ Ground type(s)] has been pretty common since the first days of Sun and Moon meta, I think that this is still a really interesting team concept. With a defensive backbone of Landorus-Therian and Tapu Fini which compared together are two great mons thanks to the fact that they can easily check nearly a big part of the meta while fitting exceptionally well on both offensive and defensive teams. They also hold a ton of utility by providing Rocks, U-Turn, Taunt, Nature's Madness and Defog in only two slots. Although all these positive aspects of this team archetype, team is still somewhat weak to stall, as your main way of defeating mons like Chansey, to help the like of Greninja in a potential sweep, is to to try and hit hard with your Metagross, which is countered by Skarmory or even trapped and revenge-killed by Dugtrio. On the other hand if you're trying to find a way of sweeping with your Metagross, by hitting is checks with SpecsNinja, mons like Chansey or Toxapex can easily tank both his STABs and win the potential 1v1 against it. However, despite stall, there are still other threats which need to be mentioned, such as Charizard (both X and Y), Toxapex, Tangrowth (both Rocky Helmet or Assault Vest honestly) or even offensive or defensive electric types such as Zapdos, Tapu Koko or Thundurus, both types, which, at plus 2, can easily sweep the team. To fix all these problems, I have a couple of suggestions which will hopefully improve the team, in hopes that they will help you achieve a better matchup against stall or certain offensive archetypes.
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The first change I'm suggesting to do is stall-breaker GrassiumZ Heatran over Magnezone. You may now be wondering why I'm thinking that Heatran can do a better job than Magnezone. First of all Heatran provides a stall-breaker support which Magnezone doesn't: it can trap switchins with Magma Storm, and block all their attempts of recovering or setting/removing hazard from the field with the Taunt tech. At first, I wasn't really sure between its Z-Move: as Grassium was the obvious decision, I was wondering if Groundium would have helped me more than Grassium could have done. It turned out that having mons like Fini or Rotom baited would have definetely been better than only having Toxapex. Heatran also does the same Magnezone's job: if you're facing stall, Magnezone will never have a use, if your team doesn't have a Knock Off support, as Skarmories are always played with Shed Shell, which lets it run away from Magnezone's attempts of trapping it. Heatran is also a nice answer for Tangrowth, which, otherwise, would easily deal with 4/5 members of your team.
Second and last change is Yache Swords Dance Landorus over the Rocky Helmet version. Ok, this might seem a gimmick change, as in theory this makes your team weaker to threats like Metagross, but this isn't true at all. Your team already has some solid options for Metagross, which consist in a nice and easy pillaring around it. Landorus comes in on Hammer Arms, Heatran comes in on Meteor Mash and so on! What I really like about this set is the Smack Down tech. If opposing stall players think that Skarmory is a safe switch-in even for Rockium version, with Smack Down you will never fear Skarmories roosting on your ZMove, or even Rotoms burning your Lando. Yache not only helps against Ice Punches from the likes of Metagross, Buzzwhole or Tyranitar, but it also helps a lot against opposing hidden power Ice coming from threats like Thundurus or Tapu Koko. I really think that offensive Landorus-T has a much better time at trying to put Stealth Rocks on the field versus defensive teams, as Mega Sableye cannot risk being severely damaged, and Skarmory would not risk being killed by Earthquake after a Smack Down. Also, Dugtrio cannot comfortably trap Metagross anymore, opening a space for a potential sweeping of it. With the EVs given, you will easily tank HP Ices from Tapu Koko, or the Hyperspace Hole or Outrages or Power Gems from Hoopa, Garchomp or Nihilego.
For this rate, that's all, hope you like the new version of the team!
Hey Team Pokepals really cool team! M-MetaGROSS is my favorite Pokemon, so it's really cool to see someone building a team with it. However, there are a few issues with the team I'd like to address. Firstly, the team looks as if it would have trouble breaking common stall cores. Secondly, The team seems to be more offensively oriented, but your Tapu Fini really slows down the momentum the rest of your team acquires - so I'd like to address that. Lastly I feel some sets/spreads could be optimized a little better to take on threatening mons like Chansey, M-Scizor, Gyarados, and a few others we'll discuss throughout the rate.
drop Fini for Manaphy would help the team function even better offensively. Yes this does remove hazard control, but this team’s offensive nature lends itself to dropping removal for a Mon like Manaphy that can help apply pressure toward your opponent. The Manaphy spread I'm suggesting is 252 Spa / 252 Spe / 4 Def Timid. The move set being: Tail Glow / Surf / Rain Dance / Psychic with the Waterium Z as the item. This Manaphy helps keep the momentum you lost with Fini. In the past whenever you brought in Fini to remove hazards or take a hit your offensive momentum would come to a screeching halt due to Fini's passive nature (even with NM). Now you have Manaphy attempting to set up, getting off big hits with Z-Surf, and acting as another Win con for the team with Z-Rain Dance. Manaphy also helps the stall match up I mentioned you struggle with earlier. The combination of Tail Glow, Surf, and Psychic let Manaphy pressure most stall mons (Skarm, Toxapex, M-Sableye, Dugtrio) along with a few other potentially annoying fat mons for the team like Gastrodon and Celesteela (it obviously beats more than these 6, just trying to keep it short/list out annoying threats). Unaware mons can take on Manaphy, but the most common Unaware Mon Clefable will hate facing your M-Metagross. Manaphy's Rain Dance also benefits Ash Greninja since Choice Specs Water Shuriken in the rain can turn Ash Greninja into a deadlier late game cleaner than before. Manaphy and Greninja also create a great pair of water spammers who can wear each other’s checks down for the other to finish things up in the late game. Rain Dance also weakens fire moves for your two steel types, which is a nice bonus.
Meteor Mash / Thunder Punch / Hammer Arm / Bullet Punch. Keeping Meteor Mash since it's a great stab, and extremely spammable in the Tapu run metagame we find ourselves in. The decision to run Hammer Arm is to improve your match up vs Ferrothorn and Chansey. Hammer Arm guarantees the 2HKO vs Chansey, while Meteor Mash does not - further improving your stall match up. Also I realize you have Magnezone to take on Ferrothorn, but with Ferrothorn being such big hindrances to the rest of your mons, and Dugtrio being a thing, I'd really recommend this change as a bit of a backup plan. Bullet Punch helps provide the team with more of a Pheromosa check since removing Fini hurt that match up. Bullet Punch also allows M-Metagross to better take on Dugtrio, which we already identified earlier as a potential threat. For the last move I'd go with Thunder Punch. Yes this does eliminate the more common elemental punch Ice Punch, but on this team the value of being able to hit Celesteela and Gyarados makes me lean towards Thunder Punch. I'm also comfortable leaving Ice Punch off the set since you have Manaphy, Ash Greninja, and your own Lando-T (with HP Ice) to check opposing Lando-T. Also Scarf Chomp and HP Ice Lando to check Zygarde.
M-Scizor, but 0 speed M-Scizor is becoming more and more uncommon. With the Bulky M-Scizor on the Smogon analysis Dex (the most common M-Scizor on the ladder) running 16 speed EV's I'd recommend running a spread of 112 Hp / 252 SpA / 144 Spe Modest that creeps 16 speed M-Scizor to out speed a larger number of M-Scizor, and get off the HP Fire before they U-turn out.
Fire Blast>Dragon Claw to hit things like M-Scizor and phys Def Tangrowth that wall M-Meta. Fire Blast also helps with Celesteela which can be an issue if it's paired with Dugtrio. The reason for Fire Blast > Fire Fang is because some of the biggest targets of Garchomp’s fire move are Skarmory and Ferrothorn, and Garchomp hates taking 2 rounds of Iron Barbs, and potentially Rocky Helmet, to net the 2HKO. While Fire Blast does the same minus the Barbs/Helmet. Fire Blast also lets chomp better revenge Kartana who can be annoying for the team. Also the reasoning for removing Dragon Claw: Rock Slide is invaluable to check Volcarona, Earthquake is just too good of a move not to run – ground stab is very strong in this meta, Outrage is needed to check Gyarados, and finally the weakening of dragon moves due to Tapu spam coupled with the need for outrage left Dragon Claw off the set.
252 Hp / 216 Def / 24 SpDef / 16 Spe with the same moves, nature, and item. The spread I’m suggesting avoids getting OHKO’d by Latios’ Draco Meteor, 2HKO’d by Tapu Koko’s dazzling gleam, and OHKO’d by Tapu Koko’s hp ice. The change is small, but it does help some rolls, so you may want to try it out. Another thing you could try on Lando is taking 8 Ev's out of defense and adding them to speed to better creep opposing defensive Landos since Ice Punch was removed from M-Metagross, helping you out speed and get off 2 hp ices before your opponent can with their Lando. Also I’ve never seen the Lando spread you’re running right now, so if you can tell me what it does specifically I’d love to hear about it – always trying to keep up to date with the best spreads (and who knows maybe you have the new standard) .
Adding a potential Threat list
Just a note, nothing on this list is a “Click X scenario” they’re just threatening enough that I want to walk you through your options so you can be prepared – since if you don’t plan around them as threats at team preview you could run into some trouble. So the threat list may seem a little long, but I just want you to be prepared and have success with the team.
Pheromosa is a Mon you have a bit of trouble switching around versus. Since the team is offensive you are forced to rely on pressuring and revenging. You can apply pressure by getting up rocks (making it more susceptible to Ash Greninja and M-Metagross). As I mentioned before priority is your main way of dealing with this monster, so just make sure to keep either M-Metagross or Ash Greninja healthy until Pheromosa has been dealt with. Also scarf Garchomp out speeds a nonboosted Pheromosa, so that’s another option. Also AV Magnezone is a solid option versus choiced variants not locked into a fighting move.
Chansey is an annoying stall mon, that’s never fun to face. With Hammer arm on M-Metagross you guarantee a 2HKO so that’s solid, however, you have to be careful since Chansey can go out to Dugtrio on the common stall build and trap M-Metagross. Another reason to run Outrage on Garchomp is that it has a decent roll (59%) to 2HKO utility Chansey after rocks. One of my changes was also adding Manaphy>Fini since Manaphy helps the stall match up – Chansey is no exception. Manaphy can set up Tail Glows and Rain dance versus Chansey allowing it to 1v1 the blob, and run through the remainder of your opponents stall team, excluding their Unaware wall.
Dugtrio is a general nuisance, so I just want to talk you through a couple things to keep in mind. M-Metagross and Magnezone get trapped, which can hinder your game plan. M-Metagross has Bullet Punch so that’s not an awful match up, especially if you have rocks up. Also try to avoid leaving Magnezone in until you eliminate the threat Magnezone is trying to check. An example would be don’t use Magnezone to eliminate a mon when Dugtrio and a threat like Ferrothorn are still around - unless absolutely necessary.
Flyinium Z Gyarados is a threat to pretty much every team right now, so you have to play carefully. Getting up rocks greatly cripples Gyarados, so that’s priority #1. Also Gyarados is one of the fastest steamrollers in the tier, so you can’t mess around with it. Get off chip whenever you can, and don’t let it get off two Dragon Dances. If this means going hard Garchomp Vs Gyarados then do it. Scarf Chomp out speeds +1 Gyarados, and Ko’s with outrage after rocks, so you have ways to take it on, just try keep chomp relatively healthy for Gyarados. Also Thunder Punch M-Meta takes on Gyarados, just look out for Earthquake Variants if you let Gyarados get +1.
You won’t lose vs Mamoswine with M-Metagross, Manaphy, and Ash Greninja on your team, but it can punch holes so you have to be careful. Manaphy has the option to switch in once and KO/scare out Mamoswine, but after that you may have to sack. Just make sure to assess the threats that make up the rest of your opponents team, and you should be fine.
M-Pinsir is always an issue for offense due to its strong priority. This mon is relatively easy for you to revenge, just remember Lando-T without stone edge isn’t a great check (so don’t expect it to stop M-Pinsir). Also Manaphy eats a +2 return, and against the bulky offense or hyper offensive team you’ll find M-Pinsir on Manaphy is likely to not have an amazing match up – so taking the hit to Z-Surf in return may be worth it. Also M-Metagross and Scarf Garchomp out speed and revenge, allowing you to keep M-Pinsir from just running through you. Also Ash Ninja’s Shuriken can help check it. Really just wanted to point out you shouldn’t try to rely on Lando to check M-Pinsir – it will not really work out for you, and you'll let Lando take a lot of unnecessary damage.
M-Metagross has a great match up vs most offensive teams, and yours sadly isn’t an exception. The good news is Greninja and Scarf Garchomp take it on very well, and Lando can chip it with Rocky Helmet. Just note in this match up you’re really going to want to try and chip M-Metagross or double into a check when you expect it to come in. Also like with M-pinsir the type of teams M-Metagross finds a home on often are a tough match up for Manaphy, so keep that in mind if you have to sack (however, assess the threat first, maybe it’s a weird team that Manaphy 5-0’s without M-Metagross).
Tangrowth is a mon that's annoying for the team, until you find out its set. The AV variant is 2HKO'd by Meteor Mash from M-Metagross and Outrage From Garchomp after rocks. The phys Def set is easily pressured by Manaphy and Greninja - also Fire Blast from Garchomp 2HKO's. So the team has a lot of answers, it's just annoying until you find out which variant it is - nothing you shouldn't be able to handle though.
Also I am going to add an importable of the team with my changes. Feel free to use them all, or whichever ones you want to test.
Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- U-turn
The goal of my rate was to really get this team going offensively, while adding a few answers to common threats that could keep your team from prospering - also trying to keep the team as close to the original version as possible. I feel like my rate does that, and if you have any more questions or concerns about the team let me know either in the thread or PM. Good luck, have Fun, and I hope to see you on the ladder!!
