Metagame Pokébilities

[Schpoonman]

The problem clearly isn't Sand Force or Rush. Mega Chomp and Hippo aren't problems, and Stoutland isn't a problem. Excadrill is a problem.

 

[pyuk]

Ok, apparently the ladder update has to be suspended indefinitely for reasons that are out of our hands, so the suspect and Evasion ban have to wait. Don't worry, the end date for the suspect will be pushed back accordingly, and either Spandan or I will post when the update and suspect finally go live.

 

[gggamer]

I've been having some success with these two:


Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: White Smoke
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Lava Plume
- Yawn

Tropius @ Sitrus Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Growth
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ground] / Giga Drain

Torkoal can set the sun and then yawn to get tropius free turns to set up/deal damage. Stealth rock and rapid spin are good utility (and you can use yawn to force switches and rack up stealth rock damage) and lava plume hits decently hard in the sun and can be used to fish for burns. Torkoal also helps deal with annoying sand and rain teams.

Tropius is kind of a meme but it hits hard and fast in the sun, especially after a growth. some calcs:

+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 280-330 (43 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (chance to 2HKO with rocks)
+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Solar Beam vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 223-264 (34.7 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Solar Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Unaware Clefable: 237-279 (60.3 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 322-381 (105.9 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 246-289 (80.9 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 241-285 (64.4 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 388-458 (106.5 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 260-308 (71.4 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Solar Beam vs. 244 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 399-469 (113.3 - 133.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 672-792 (190.9 - 225%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 501-589 (118.1 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Marowak-Alola: 288-340 (88.8 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed with rocks)

For other options you can run HP ground over HP fire if you want to kill heatran and get a guaranteed OHKO on sp. def Marowak-A after rocks:
+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 408-480 (105.6 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Tropius Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Marowak-Alola: 244-288 (75.3 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

You can also run giga drain for a grass move that works outside of the sun.

Life Orb lets you turn a lot of 3HKOs and 2HKOs into 2HKOs and OHKOs but it makes you die really fast so I wouldn't recommend it

 

[AquaticPanic]

Problem with that is, 80% of the teams right now have Sand Setters that shut down the Sun, and SR hurts that core even with Torkoal having Rapid Spin. If weather was less common, I guess it'd work

Also for even more memes run Kanto Exeggutor with that berry that raises a random stat by 2 when at low hp and spam subs, so you always get a moody-esque thing and also has Clorophyll.


Exeggutor @ Starf Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Sp. Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Psyshock/HP Fire

 

[Boopiester]

Excadrill has recently been banned from Pokébilities because it was 2 OP 4 me. Understandable.

 

[Spandan]

Pokebilities has been updated; You may now start to get reqs for the suspect test. Instructions:

Announcing: Excadrill Suspect and Evasion Abilities Quickban
First of all, Pokebilities will start suspecting Excadrill until the 21st. Excadrill is incredibly fast and powerful under sand, which is the easiest weather to run due to the existence of four very powerful setters, where every other weather has 1 good one at best. Additionally, Excadrill has absolutely perfect neutral coverage with its three Sand Force boosted moves, Earthquake, Iron Head, and Rock Slide, and can hax past the few Pokemon that wall it with two semi-reliable flinching moves. That said, there are a few Pokemon that can switch in, and several more that can either outspeed or outprioritize and KO, though those really can't switch in. To qualify for the suspect, you need 79% GXE on a fresh alt containing "EXC". To vote, just post in this thread with a screenshot of your reqs, your vote, and your reasoning.

Also, starting now, Evasion Abilities will be banned in Pokebilities under the Evasion Clause. They add nothing constructive to the meta, and only serve to be highly uncompetitive. While they may have been removed from the Evasion Clause near the end of Gen 6, as weather isn't as good in standard play and most Pokemon have better abilities anyway, in Pokebilities there's no opportunity cost to have them because Pokemon get all their abilities anyway, and as a result of this weather is made more powerful. We understand that only Ninetales-Alola had a weather setting ability and the corresponding Evasion ability at the same time, but it's the abilities that are uncompetitive as a whole, not Ninetales-A.

Good luck everyone

 

[MatthewMallory]

Critdra needs both Razor Claw/Scope lens and Focus Energy to have guaranteed crits. Sniper doesn't increase crit rate, it just increases crit damage. Razor Claw/Scope Lens by itself gives Kingdra only a 12.5% crit chance which is not reliable at all. With Focus Energy and no crit-boosting item it's 50%. With both Razor Claw/Scope Lens and Focus Energy, Kingdra has a 100% crit chance.

No, this is wrong. Scope Lens gives you +1 crit chance and Focus Energy gives you +2. +3 Crit chance means you have 100% chance of critting, that is the mechanic. Trust me, I have also used Critdra for almost all of ORAS and have never once missed out on a critical hit unless the opponent has Shell Armor.

 

[TimeZone]

No, this is wrong. Scope Lens gives you +1 crit chance and Focus Energy gives you +2. +3 Crit chance means you have 100% chance of critting, that is the mechanic. Trust me, I have also used Critdra for almost all of ORAS and have never once missed out on a critical hit unless the opponent has Shell Armor.

So.....you basically repeated the same thing he said? Just worded it differently.

 

[MatthewMallory]

So.....you basically repeated the same thing he said? Just worded it differently.

lol I'm an idiot. I read it wrong, i thought he meant guaranteed crits are impossible since you'd need focus energy and BOTH razor claw AND scope lens. Lol my b.

 

[PsychoCut42]

Does zebstrika get a special attack and speed boost if hit by an electric move? Bad mon but seems cool if it did.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Does zebstrika get a special attack and speed boost if hit by an electric move? Bad mon but seems cool if it did.

No, it's random which it'll get

 

[tommytt22]

So um sorry if this post makes me seem like im two-faced, but trust me it doesnt.

So i first complained that sand cores make this OM mundane since it was very easy to win and almost unstoppable with a perfect set-up. But heyIm not really wrong and not taking that back, but the metagame has amazingly adapted to it, providing it many various checks. So what am I pointing out? I dont want excadrill banned, sand force on it is the thing that needs to get attention. Excadrill is very volatile under sand, sporting a good speed tier to outspeed everything in sand, and sand force just makes it even harder to stop. But like I said, this is not very problematic thing since we're anyway just started this meta, and we have developed numerous checks and counterplays to beat this beast down.

Dedicated physical walls
There are very limited switchins to slowbro under sand. Slowbro-Mega, Gliscor, to name a few, are very viable mons in the meta atm. Their gigantic physical defense can chew a hit even at +2, and has their own decent offense stats ko back with their STAB moves, making them a reliable and not a passive answer to it. Stuff like mandibuzz,regular slowbro,hippowdon and pelipper must deserve a mention for being a soft check by taking a hit and koing back. I feek like im still missing a lot of checks, but these are the common walls that stop it from a rampage.

Priority is one of the nicest stops to excadrill, and Conk and Azu are the most notable users of this. Priority slips past to excadrill's humongous speed, and these two's powerful atk stat can pick off a weakened excadrill easily with stab priority, and even from full, providing that Conk has gotten the guts boost from flame orb, or a banded Azumarill.

Weather Summoners

Pelipper is the most notable one in this, as it can switch in into anything excadrill has provided rocks arent up, and reverses the weather to rain which makes it more tankier as it gets a benificial recovery from rain dish, aside from the reliable roost and a possible leftovers. Other things that switches the weather to anything not sand would immediately stop, since excadrill isnt really that fast outside of sand, and is koed by anything faster that hits hard enough thanks to its abysmal defenses (though high HP). This meta has been a weathers war, so if someone uses weather to win, why not use weather to stop them?

TR

Probs the most niche from its checks. Just a simple desc for this one, Trick Room nullifies the sand boost by basically making slower mons move first, which makes fast mons in general and not only Excadrill be checked and koed by powerful slow breakers.

This is only to name a few checks, and Excadrill will get more of this if sand force itself will be removed from it. Besides, Excadrill isnt really threatening outside of sand anyways, and depends on it most of the time to get most of its KOs. Regular Excadrill with no Sand Rush+Force in OU isnt really troublesome and is checked by a plethora of mons.

So yeah here we go
TL;DR: Excadrill itself even with sand force has a numerous viable mons as checks and few counters to name with and doesnt really deserve a ban, and sand force is the lone reason to make it unappealing in the meta, and seems like a better option since we can ban abilities themselves.
Banning sand force would be better itself, as excadrill would still be usable as a sand sweeper (without the 1.3 boost this time) but way more manageable this time, and can stop certain meta threats like Magnezone with the SpD set which can take special hits nicely like Magnezone's coverage moves like HP fire even with the Specs and Analytic boost, thanks to its huge HP stat and decent SpD. Plus, mold breaker lets break through Levitate, Sturdy, and even Magic Bounce in a defensive stand point to set up rocks vs those mons. Excadrill is a fun mon, Sand Rush+Force is really just to bleh tbh.

P.S.

Posting calc if you need them to prove that sand force is the only problem(and when I have time).

You forgot to mention buzzwole, which can completely counter excadrill barring flinches and stall out sand turns with roost or bulk up and become physically invincible. I made a post about him a while back, (probably on page 3 or 4) but he seems to have slipped completely under the radar, despite countering excadrill, conkeldurr and even azumarill after a bulk up or two.

Buzzwole is literally the most criminally underrated pokemon atm, and isn't even a niché choice. He can put in work outside of excadrill too.

 

[Elecktrochoko]

You forgot to mention buzzwole, which can completely counter excadrill barring flinches and stall out sand turns with roost or bulk up and become physically invincible. I made a post about him a while back, (probably on page 3 or 4) but he seems to have slipped completely under the radar, despite countering excadrill, conkeldurr and even azumarill after a bulk up or two.

Buzzwole is literally the most criminally underrated pokemon atm, and isn't even a niché choice. He can put in work outside of excadrill too.

You guyz just forgot about SWORDS DANCE: it can litterally setup with SD to a pokemon that can't do much against it, then it 2hKOes or OHKOes the whole meta with the Sandstorm. Plus, it has the perfect coverage to hit all pokemons.

 

[tommytt22]

You guyz just forgot about SWORDS DANCE: it can litterally setup with SD to a pokemon that can't do much against it, then it 2hKOes or OHKOes the whole meta with the Sandstorm. Plus, it has the perfect coverage to hit all pokemons.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sand Force Excadrill Iron Head vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole in Sand: 285-335 (69 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sand Force Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole in Sand: 179-212 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sand Force Excadrill Earthquake vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole in Sand: 177-209 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery


0 Atk Buzzwole Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 432-510 (119.6 - 141.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Buzzwole comes in on swords dance and beats 1v1, even if there are rocks.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Inb4 Aerial Ace Excadrill becomes a thing
Like if Ace wasn't terrible even when 4x effective

 

[Spandan]

The last date for getting reqs has been extended to 24th January. Get 'em fast

 

[TimeZone]

You guyz just forgot about SWORDS DANCE: it can litterally setup with SD to a pokemon that can't do much against it, then it 2hKOes or OHKOes the whole meta with the Sandstorm. Plus, it has the perfect coverage to hit all pokemons.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sand Force Excadrill Iron Head vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole in Sand: 285-335 (69 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sand Force Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole in Sand: 179-212 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sand Force Excadrill Earthquake vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole in Sand: 177-209 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery


0 Atk Buzzwole Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 432-510 (119.6 - 141.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Buzzwole comes in on swords dance and beats 1v1, even if there are rocks.

How does it "Counter" Azumarill thou? Does it get Gunk shot or something?

Also, +1 252+ Atk Flame Plate Sheer Force Conkeldurr Fire Punch vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 254-300 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Conk can pick and choose who he wants to be countered by iirc. Just a little nitpick.

 

[Schpoonman]

No, but Conk gets Iron Fist Sheer Force Poison Jab, which handily OHKOs Azumarill. People have been running either maximum speed or enough to outspeed Conk in retaliation.

 

[CoolMan6001]

No, but Conk gets Iron Fist Sheer Force Poison Jab, which handily OHKOs Azumarill. People have been running either maximum speed or enough to outspeed Conk in retaliation.

Poison Jab is not boosted by iron fist

 

[TimeZone]

No, but Conk gets Iron Fist Sheer Force Poison Jab, which handily OHKOs Azumarill. People have been running either maximum speed or enough to outspeed Conk in retaliation.

I also was talking about buzzwole. How does buzzwole counter azumarill?

Edit: Lol conk uses poison jab for Clefable btw, Tpunch KOs azu.

 

[tommytt22]

Its come to my attention that I have said buzzwole counters azumarill. I used that term a bit too loosely and in reality buzzwole can check azumarill in certain situations, such as when its locked into anything other than play rough on choice band sets, or if wole has a bulk up under its belt, buzzwole can outspeed and 2hko azu with earthquake.

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def buzzwole: 204-242 (49.3 - 58.5%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def buzzwole: 306-362 (74 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def buzzwole: 69-82 (16.7 - 19.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Heracross: 136-162 (32.9 - 39.2%) -- 11.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def buzzwole: 181-214 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

These calcs show both choice band and belly drum sets.

+1 0 Atk buzzwole Earthquake vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 172-203 (47.2 - 55.7%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
+1 0 Atk buzzwole Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 172-203 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Fixing my previous error, Buzzwole can CHECK but not COUNTER azumarill, thanks to being able to out-speed with only 24 evs in speed.

Also TimeZone , its true that conkeldurr can run fire punch to beat buzzwole but in reality it usually picks thunder/ice punch, poison jab, mach punch and drain punch iirc, so i guess it just depends on the set.

Look at me, i must be Buzzwoles biggest fan or something, i usually never spend this much time defending a pokemon.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Since this meta is kind of dead ladder-wise (admit it), I'm thinking of this meta being part of Core Laddering Challenge to revive this meta in ladder. But being OMotM, there is a concern that it's not allowed. Good thing TI allowed it. So with that said, I now announce that in January 24th, 2017, Pokebilities will be one of the metas for the next Challenge in Core Laddering Challenge.

Why did I announce this? Because I want you guys to suggest two mons as a core for the CLC. The mons MUST be good BUT not too common. They also must pair well with each other, either offensive wise or defensive wise. If no one suggested a core until 24th of January, I'll try to suggest two mons, but don't blame me if the core is not really good :P

 

[~BLOOM~]

Posting a Core for Why Nerdy

OFFENSIVE CORE

+

OR

With the changes this metagame makes to Magnezone, it becomes a premier steel trapper with the abilities Sturdy and Magnet Pull. Analytic's boost makes switching into a specs set difficult. Magnezone can be paired well with either of these Normal-type demons. Porygon-Z, as you probably know, receives Adaptability and Download, making Porygon's Tri Attack rise to devastating levels of power upon getting the SpA boost. Cinccino now has both Technician and Skill Link, making for very powerful Tail Slaps, Bullet Seeds, and Rock Blasts that tear through common Sturdy users. Magnezone can easily be pivoted into after a prediction, eliminating the Steel-types in Cinccino/Porygon's way, leaving the rest of the team vulnerable to both pokemon's strong STAB/coverage moves.

 

[tommytt22]

Posting a core for Why Nerdy

Since I've spent the last week pouring my heart out about buzzwole, I won't go into depth about why he is my first choice. Pretty uncommon and a great choice to beat conkeldurr and excadrill (if he ever comes back), among other physical threats. This paves the way for Azumarill to come in. I've chosen an assault vest set but a belly drum set could also work here, however I don't think choice band is a good fit. Assault vest and great resistances paired with buzzwole allow you to pivot between one another and beat each others checks with sheer power.

Going back to azumarill, and because I like proof for my arguments, he has a large chance to survive a porygon-z tri attack even with specs:

+1 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 348-410 (86.7 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

If porygon runs timid then you always survive, and even have a 63% chance if stealth rock is up. You can then 2hko with play rough and aqua jet.
Thick fat and resists basically makes you impervious to fire and ice attacks, the former patching up buzzwole's weakness, and meaning you can beat charizard-y forms 1v1.

Azumarill can switch into grass attacks for a boost, although they generally wont be aimed at this core. Azu can beat clefable if it comes into an attack or force it into a softboiled war if it doesn't.

Importable

Buzzwole @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Earthquake
- Hammer Arm

Azumarill @ Assault vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpDef
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Superpower / Knock Off

 

[pyuk]

I have to say that I'm disappointed. I don't know who or what I'm disappointed in, or even if I'm disappointed in anyone or anything in particular, but I know that I am disappointed. The Excadrill suspect ended with 0 votes in favor of a ban, 0 votes opposed, and 0 abstains. I can't help but feel that I set reqs too high, but looking at the ladder, one sees that only three EXC alts even managed to get into the top 500. Regardless, something needs to be done officially about Excadrill. To put it simply, we suspected it because we thought it was broken in the first place, so without any votes to the contrary, Excadrill will remain banned.