Rating Basics

ShootingStarmie

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Right, so I spoke to Jirachi about how I format my rates, and we both agreed that my format is a bit confusing, so here's my latest rate of an RMT, using this new, neater format. Please tell me what you guys think.

The team:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-great-storm-an-ou-sand-team-wip.3488947/

My rate:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-great-storm-an-ou-sand-team-wip.3488947/#post-4857627

Edit: Here's another team with the same rating format, tell me what you think.

The team:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rain-destruction.3489037/

My rate:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rain-destruction.3489037/#post-4860136
 
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PDC

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i will be responding to the second rate first as it is just easier to read as the team itself actually has descriptions. i will first be covering formats.

i don't know if this is just me, but i would bold a lot less. you don't need to stress every single point that is of significance. it gets confusing for the reader and tbh i think it just looks more cluttered. its not bad but its just preference for a lot of people, just bold the changes.

now for the actual rate, i like some of your suggestions more than others. you identify threats well as thundurus can run right through him and destroy him, same with other electric types like rotom-w, and i'm glad that you identified these big problems. the gastrodon spread first of all sucks. it should be much more physically bulky if you actually want to combat keldeo, adjusting the spread a bit more would definitely be better to cover the threats that you mentioned. i guess thundurus is still dangerous with focus blast, but occasionally they carry grass knot, which makes gastrodon kind of an unreliable check in the first place, but i think it should be fine considering how rarely people run it. i don't really 100% agree with scarf latios, but scarf garchomp isn't too reliable either. chomper checks volc more reliably than a latios can, but latios covers venusaur and friends more. but overall i do believe latios is probably the better choice.

what i would really change with that team is add sr on jirachi over protect, as tbh it doesn't work nearly as well anymore. i would add tentacruel over your suggestion of gastrodon, and probably add something like scarf latios in then just so you can handle keldeo / volc / sun sweepers. this does make electric types a big problem, so you can opt out to use something over skarmory, which i don't feel fits the team at all.

overall, pretty solid rate, i did like how you fixed pretty much every threat that you mentioned.
 

PDC

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yeah, it definitely looks more clean compared to the previous ones. much better.

onto the actual rate, lo latias is the way to go. latias does everything this team wants, and i don't really see any other way to fix the problem, latias is easily the sturdiest and best way to improve this team. now, i believe you meant replacing something other than terrakion when you said scarf keldeo, as you mentioned terrakion co-operating with keldeo by breaking down its counters, unless i am misunderstanding you there. scarf keldeo patches up some additional fragile rain offense weaknesses, which is true. but i don't really know if you're sure about your replacement just because of the sentence. scarf keldeo would check additional stuff like opposing scizor (especially offensive sd sets which are a nightmare for this team as rotom-w can't really win), and additionally help with speed.

i would make additional small changes like outrage > dclaw on chomper, the addition of a few extra satk and speed evs on rotom-w as sdef sets like that are horrible and are dead weight with half of their evs, but outside of that i think you have stuff covered.
 

PDC

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rate looks fine, although i would go with wow on jellicent still, or at least change scald to sball instead. i don't think you need to expand so damn much on each and every move, as tbh i think we know how cbzor functions, it hasn't changed like the past 4 years or so. outside of that i don't have much to say as the team itself is very gimmicky, and i don't expect and actual serious competitively viable overhaul of it.
 

tcr

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http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/earthshakers-take-six-feat-mega-gyarados-2000.3493347/

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/emperor-core.3493379/

Those are two rates I just think weren't my best in any way. I usually suggest amoonguss over other grass types on offensive teams because it helps with momentum and stuff, but in testing once its put stuff to sleep its kinda set up bait. However, i cant really think of anything over it, and when i suggest changes i usually try an keep the structure relatively the same (grass to grass, azu check to azu check, etc).
 

Reymedy

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Imma check the rates up in here, do not worry.

Okay so your first rate :
- The team has quite a ton of issues. You picked one, Keldeo and tried to improve it. The issue for me is that you probably made the team weaker to Keldeo actually, by changing Shaymin for Jirachi. Shaymin can be quite a good Keldeo check, or even counter. You could have just changed the set to make it bulkier, and it would have solved all the issues you raised. So yea, I don't feel like you needed to make the change you did. The thing about Jirachi Scarf, is that you don't fix a Keldeo issue at all, if all you can do is let something die to force it out after. And since it's a choice set, you even offer switch-in possibilities. Basically, you changed a solid check (Shaymin), for a shaky one (Jirachi Scarf) and I don't see why.
- Making sure he doesn't have two Scarfers was ok I guess.
- You probably missed a ton of more obvious threats. And you also made it way weaker to Breloom, Landorus-T & stuff like dat by changing Shaymin. Like, this team is pretty weak to Surf Lati@s (even if actually Jirachi helps here), Terrakion, Chomper and rain sweepers.

I'd say that the most annoying with this team, is not about the threats, but it's about the global synergy which sucks. Like, there is nothing to prepare a Terrak or a Keldeo sweep, it looks like he just put some pokemons together and that's it.

So yea, avoid pointing out one lil weakness (and almost any team is weak to Keldeo/Ttar), or at least fix it for real. Sometimes you should try to improve how the team works as a whole.

Second rate :
- The team is really shaky. Like 0 water resistance in BW OU = bad team, 99% of the time.
Now you tried to fix it by slapping the two most played "glues" of the metagame, Rotom-W and Latias. Hey, why not ?
The issue, is that you don't explain that much why you do these changes. Like, you tell him to play Latias over Skarmory. But, why you tell him to get rid of Skarmory ? Why not getting rid of Ttar ? or of Lucario ? You don't explain why you prefer one pokemon over the other. You need to do it.
- Your Rotom-W change over Scizor. You say it's to RK Gyarados and Nite ... I can't believe Scarf Rotom-W is the first thing to come into your mind when you ask yourself "How can I RK Gyarados and Nite ?". Like, change Terrak to a Scarf version and he's gonna do the job just fine right ?

So yea, I feel like overall you're trying too hard to slap overplayed classic pokemons that can't do wrong (Latias, Rotom-W, Jirachi) but it seems like you're unable to really justify those changes. So in the end your rates look like really superficials.

Don't get me wrong, adding Latias in the second team was NOT BAD. But it was done poorly. You could have said "Gliscor and Skarmory have the same job : checking physical threats. Since Gliscor is more valuable for your team given the need of a Fighting resistance, and of a Status absorber, you should change Skarmory for a Latias that could check most of your Specially based threats such as blabla".

Improving your justifications should enable you to strenghten your rating skills !
 

Reymedy

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http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gen5-ou-almighty-stall.3492998/#post-5034412

Any suggestions? I made a lot of changes but felt that I was kind of necessary since the team is really outdated. I was also considering changing Zapdos to Jellicent, but didn't want to change over half (4 out of 6) of the team's Pokemon, since that would be making it more of my team than his.
Well, the team you chose was really sloppy. So, it's pretty hard for me to rate your rate because almost anything you could change would make it better as long as you propose top tiers. Stall teams always have a couple of pokemons in common, such as Jellicent so I guess you couldn't do wrong advising it.
Chansey over Blissey makes sense. Landorus-T over Chomp bugs me more, because besides saying "it's better because it's better" you don't really explain the change. I'm not saying that it's bad, but it's a shortcut to just slap Landorus-T over Chomp because that's a stall.

However, there is a change that I didn't like at all. You changed Jirachi Scarf for Jirachi Wish. And your explanation for that is pretty shacky. Because all the things your SpD Jirachi should cover, are already pretty well covered by a Scarf... and by a Blissey/Zapdos.
So it's clear that the team ain't really well rounded, but you limited to rate to do simple changes, changes that "look good".

It's good to keep in mind the defensive nature of a team when you rate. However, you need to identify REAL threats, in order to make relevant changes.
In the end, with your changes, the teams is slower, doesn't have any win condition but hazards (which is definitely not viable in this metagame). I don't see how it beats a classic Rain team, or a Sun team, and Offensive teams probably steam roll through the team.
So yea, I really dislike the Jirachi change, out of that it wasn't bad, but it looked a lot like a superficial rate. Next time, do the effort to identify threats before.

I think that keeping the Chomp here, giving it a Rocky Helmet, keeping Scarf Jirachi (changing Gyara for Jelli was fine), and addind Alakazam/Reuniclus (over Zapdos, with a preference for Kazam because that team is REALLY Venusaur weak) to the team was a pretty good way to make the team both stronger defensively, and increase the presure applied. Spikes + Rocky Helmet usually clear the way pretty well for Kazam/Reu. It would also be a way to keep Chomp (he talks about it as his favorite mon in the team).

I hope I helped, I'll check the other rate later.
 

Reymedy

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http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/earthshakers-take-six-feat-mega-gyarados-2000.3493347/

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/emperor-core.3493379/

Those are two rates I just think weren't my best in any way. I usually suggest amoonguss over other grass types on offensive teams because it helps with momentum and stuff, but in testing once its put stuff to sleep its kinda set up bait. However, i cant really think of anything over it, and when i suggest changes i usually try an keep the structure relatively the same (grass to grass, azu check to azu check, etc).
One thing, I'm no XY expert, the metagame being what it is at the moment, it's pretty annoying to rate. It's gonna be simpler once things will be set. I can still give you some general advice.

Ok the first rate is pretty sparse in terms of content, even if it doesn't mean that the rate isn't good.
I agree that Azumarill can be quite the threat, but you're not gonna put Tentacruel or Amoonguss in every team. Every member of this team outspeeds Azumarill, so you only have to make sure, that these members can hurt it hard enough.
Greninja is definitely the set-up bait here. Speaking of Greninja, I don't see the point of playing both MeGyarados AND Greninja. It seems really redundant and probably unhealthy. So instead of trying to fit a hard counter (which doesn't work that well in this team obviously), you could have tried to kill to Azumarill less switch-in possiblities. This way, you soften the weakness, but you don't break the team dynamic.
You were obviously right for Celebi. This set is atrocious and doesn't work. I could really see a bulky pivot be here instead, with Baton Pass.

So yea, imo Greninja shouldn't be here (just watch how he struggles to find a worthy set), Celebi set needed to be changed. Also, Dragons able to get rid of Excadrill (they almost all can) are definitely threatening, same goes for physical sweepers. WoW+Twave on Scarf Rotom-H is meh and Trick/Coverage move should be used instead. The Chomp set is also really weird, this should be at least a coverage move like Fire Blast instead of Outrage.
You could have considered a Gourgeist (can definitely check Azumarill) over Celebi, and a Fairy over Greninja since it solves almost any issue I can see, and of course, improve all the weird sets. That would have been my rate I guess.


The second rate.
This one looks well constructed, especially compared to the first one. You did a clear analysis of the team, and of its purpose : this is really good, keep doing that.
You did raise a good point with Aegislash, the mixed version could be annoying.
I didn't like the AV Landorus-T at all. I don't know what is the exact point, but if it's only about taking HP Ice from other Landorus-T and beating NP Lucarios well.. You could simply invest in speed for that, and have HP Ice on your own. Landorus-T doesn't have any useful "Special resistance" so you're almost never gonna use it to take Special hits. So yea, in my opinion that's a terrible idea because Landorus-T is NOT supposed to take any special hit.
The other change seemed fine, even if it does not fix the Mixed Aegislash issue at all (the physical one was already pretty well covered by Landorus-T). Granted, AV Landorus-T helps here.. surprisingly enough... I still think it's a subpar set but I may be wrong.

From what I see, this team basically relies on Landorus-T/Rotom-W/Gourgeist/Talonflame. All together, they share an insanely good synergy. He just tossed Manetric and Empoleon here for the show off. Imo, if you want to improve the team, putting MegaKangashkan somewhere would be cool, it could totally fix the Aegislash mixed issue since Secret Sword doesn't hit hard enough (and so you don't have to run meh AV Lando-T). I'd even try the Wish/SeismicToss version because it could fit the team quite well (all the walls have no reliable recovery : RotomW/Landorus-T/Gourgeist). As for the last pokemon, maybe AV Excadrill to spin for Talonflame, while being a decent special sponged if needed. Or just a better Defog user.
That could have been my rate I guess.
However, he prob didn't want to get rid of Empoleon and Manectric.

I hope that I helped, keep the rates going.

PS : Don't make someone play Stone Edge + HP Ice. It's literally atrocious and one of the most redundant coverage combinaison when paired with Earthquake. It could help against Flying/Bug + Fire mons or Flyin/Levitate + Water, but they are already covered by Rotom-W, or RK'd by TalonFlame. So yea, don't do that in general.
 
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Trinitrotoluene

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Memoric, anyone is free to post their rates and get evaluations here. Also, holy crap, this thread is inactive.

I guess I'll bite the bait and evaluate your rate. For the most part, your rate is okay, but my issue with it is that you attempted to change too much of the OP's team just to deal with one or two threats. Yea, you're correct in stating that Bisharp is a threat to his team and you provided appropriate justification, but your recommendation for dealing with it (AV Conk > Empoleon) opens up holes for opposing Water-types to abuse, which is never a good thing to deal with. To deal with Bisharp, I personally would have recommended 44 Spe physically defensive Rotom-W over Empoleon. This gives the OP another member to add to his VoltTurn chain, and it also closes up a vulnerability to powerful Water-type attackers not named Mega Gyarados.

I also don't agree with your Autotomize Aegislash suggestion, since it doesn't do much for his team aside from giving him a sweeper that does not synergize well with his team. Since you brought up the importance of having SR on the team later on in your rate, I'd have changed the Aegislash into something that can set SR while possessing similar typing, such as specially defensive Heatran. The OP's use of Sylveon, Landoge, and Psyshock Latios keeps Fighting-types in check, reducing the need for Aegislash's immunity, and the double Intimidate core of Mega Manectric and Landoge reduces the strain physical attacks place on his / her team. Your third suggestion (LO + Defog Latios) was a very good suggestion because it didn't change much while improving his team overall.

Your fourth suggestion (SR + Lefties > Scarf + Superpower Landoge) was the worst part of the rate because it created unnecessary changes that opened the OP's team up to more threats than it closed. To conclude this, I'll paraphrase one of the older posts in this thread (franky's post in page 1 to be specific) to give some tips of my own. First off, you should try to minimize the number of Pokemon that you change. These changes often open up new problems, which necessitate another Pokemon replacement to close the holes the first change created. When rating, you should try to make smaller changes, such as slight EV or moveset tweaks, and stay away from larger changes unless they're absolutely necessary. Also, once you've suggested a change, step back and see if it opens more holes than it closes.

Sorry for the length of this evaluation. Here's hoping this helps you and anyone else looking to become a team rater.
 

Trinitrotoluene

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yay rating basics thread revival thank you based Pinoy Pwnage (nice username btw :] )

also tagging Electrolyte and Pocket so you can possibly get an evaluation of the content of your rates. disclaimer: i don't know much about doubles, so i'll be critiquing the structure / format of your rates rather than what you decided to emphasize in them.

for your first rate, i like how you decided to just make smaller optimizations instead of larger changes that could potentially have weakened his team. this keeps up the uniqueness (for lack of a better term >_<) of the op's team while making it that much better. regarding your qualms about length, this rate was just long enough to keep the reader's attention imo (but then again, i do tend to ramble on and on when i rate). overall, this was a solid rate.

regarding your second rate, it's pretty good. i have no issues w/ it, as the content seems solid, and the length / format appropriately good at keeping the reader's attention.

couldn't say enough about the content itself because i know nil about doubles. anyways, i hope this helps. i'll edit w/ some more advice later.
 

Pocket

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Hi Pinoy :) I read your second RMT by YelloMello and here are my thoughts:
  1. Love how you began with encouragement. Constructive evaluations always starts with an encouragement that warms the user to what you need to say
  2. I liked the changes you suggested for Cresselia.
  3. Not a fan of your Keldeo's suggestion of choosing either Protect or Quick Guard, as I feel both are beneficial to this team. Electrolyte is spot-on when he said that YelloMello was going overkill with set up moves. His suggestion to replace Calm Mind for Quick Guard to protect Volcarona from Prankster Thunder Waves, Gale Wings Brave Bird, and other priority moves was spot-on.
  4. You can also take away more from Electolyte's rates tbh. He optimized Mega Garchomp, realizing that Fire Blast was a wasted slot on a team with Quiver Dance-boosted Heat Wave. Stone Edge and Draco Meteor boosted the team's overall coverage and power IMO.
    • Trick Room is also troublesome, so Electrolyte's Trick Room suggestion on Cress was also a good one. I like your Cress's moveset, though. Maybe I would suggest Trick Room over Helping Hand or Icy Wind.
  5. I definitely appreciated how you continued giving YelloMello more feedback to optimize his team. You certainly has the spirit of a true rater :)
 

Trinitrotoluene

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Rob. :]

regarding your team rate, i don't think it was too great. yea, the av metagross to aegislash change might have improved his team, but you never really explained to the op why it improved his / her team beyond the cursory "better stats / typing / ability" and "this set does this" chatter that you can keep to one or two sentences. in addition, you mentioned that the op's team had a problem that could be solved if he replaced his av metagross w/ aegislash, but you never clarified to the op what the problem was in the first place. all your rate sounded like to me was "you have a problem (which i won't elaborate on), and using aegislash over metagross is your solution. here's some basic info about aegislash that most people already know. oh, and here's the aegislash set. also, here's some more cursory info about the moves (which is somewhat helpful, i guess)."

protip 1 for making a decent rate: explain to the op some of the issues his / her team may have. you don't need to make your explanations long (one or two sentences should suffice). just make sure the op understands the issues s/he may have. protip 2: after offering a solution for the problem (be specific), explain how your changes make the team better beyond the cursory info that they should already know of, and how these solutions fix up the problems that the team had. remember, you're trying to convince the op to take up your suggestions, not brush them aside. using your rate as an example, you could have mentioned how aegislash gives the op's team a pivot that can hit hard, give hell to physical attackers like mega medicham, and cover mons like thundurus and non-dark pulse greninja, all while doing what metagross would normally do. i kinda pulled my explanation from nowhere in particular, but my explanation at least gives the op a reason to consider replacing his / her metagross.

sorry if this evaluation sounded a bit harsh, but i hope it helps. if you have any more questions, feel free to either post them on this thread or vm / pm me about them.
 
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Rob. :]

regarding your team rate, i don't think it was too great. yea, the av metagross to aegislash change might have improved his team, but you never really explained to the op why it improved his / her team beyond the cursory "better stats / typing / ability" and "this set does this" chatter that you can keep to one or two sentences. in addition, you mentioned that the op's team had a problem that could be solved if he replaced his av metagross w/ aegislash, but you never clarified to the op what the problem was in the first place. all your rate sounded like to me was "you have a problem (which i won't elaborate on), and using aegislash over metagross is your solution. here's some basic info about aegislash that most people already know. oh, and here's the aegislash set. also, here's some more cursory info about the moves (which is somewhat helpful, i guess)."

protip 1 for making a decent rate: explain to the op some of the issues his / her team may have. you don't need to make your explanations long (one or two sentences should suffice). just make sure the op understands the issues s/he may have. protip 2: after offering a solution for the problem (be specific), explain how your changes make the team better beyond the cursory into that they should already know of, and how these solutions fix up the problems that the team had. remember, you're trying to convince the op to take up your suggestions, not brush them aside. using your rate as an example, you could have mentioned how aegislash gives the op's team a pivot that can hit hard, give hell to physical attackers like mega medicham, and cover mons like thundurus and non-dark pulse greninja, all while doing what metagross would normally do. i kinda pulled my explanation from nowhere in particular, but my explanation at least gives the op a reason to consider replacing his / her metagross.

sorry if this evaluation sounded a bit harsh, but i hope it helps. if you have any more questions, feel free to either post them on this thread or vm / pm me about them.
Thank you for the evaluation TNT :). I understand this was a little harsh but it's very necessary, I see I should have been more specific and I thought about that as I was writing the rate. I'll be sure to improve in that regard, thanks again.
 
Thanks for the input, Pocket! I also agree that my Keldeo suggestion wasn't the best; I should have recommended both Quick Guard and Protect on Keldeo, and it's kind of funny cause that's what I use on my own Keldeo set. >_< And yeah, I've been learning a lot from Electrolyte, especially since he's a TR who also rates Doubles teams. :]
 

Pocket

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I thought it'd be cool to revive this thread again. :]

Just wanted some feedback on two of some of my recent rates, mainly if I do too much and the way I format my rates.

Kelverian's Hyper Offensive Squad
My First Doubles Team >~<
I just checked your first RMT, and I really enjoyed your great attention in detail to help somebody unfamiliar with EVs x_x. Newbies require the most amount of attention, and you gave him just that. Your Dragonite EV changes and the reasoning behind it is excellent. My only recommendation here is that Pokemon with 4x weakness to SR should not have an even HP number. So if you see Talonflame / Charizard Y / Volcarona with an even # HP, make sure to have that fixed.

GJ, brother!
 

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