Project RU Research Week: SuMo Edition [Week 4]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Op mostly taken with permission from Ark
Approved by atomicllamas and Spirit
Hosted by yours truly


Hello everyone, welcome to RU research week, SuMo edition! In this project, participants research suggested Pokémon every week and share their experience. Whoever has the highest ladder score at the end of the week will be crowned the winner! Details below.

Keep the Following Things in mind during Research week:
- Be open-minded. Don't say something is terrible and walk away, look at its typing, movepool, and stats to come up with something.
- Feel free to theorymon in the early phase of the research week, but later you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, replays, maybe even teams.
- Just because an analysis has been created for a Pokémon doesn't mean there's not more to discover!
- Don't post in-thread complaining about which Pokémon or movesets I've chosen or suggesting ones for next week. You can VM / PM these suggestions, but I won't always listen to you.

A few things to clarify:
- You can sign up as late as you want, but the week will always end on wednesday.
- Early phase means the first three days of research week, so Theorymon is allowed during this period. Afterwards, during the late phase, please keep Theorymoning to a minimum. Discussion and raw evidence should be the basis of this thread during the late period.
- Discussion is mandatory to become the winner of research week. If you do not post one somewhat-coherent post that describes the Pokemon that you're using, their roles, and their niche in the metagame, you will be disqualified from winning this week. Please post about your experiences regardless of whether you think you've got a chance to win or not.
- Finally, I'd like to implore you to all please remember to post and save your replays. Often, these replays are the most informative sources of information about RW Pokemon - you can write a full two paragraphs about the role of a Pokemon, but often that can all be summed up with a video and an explanation of it. How useful are these Pokemon in SMRU? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in the RU chat on Pokemon Showdown, and in the official RU Discord. Once we get one, discussing these Pokémon in the Viability Ranking thread if they have enough of a niche is encouraged.

This Week's Selection


Bruxish
Ability
EVs
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-


Araquanid
Ability
Evs
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-




In order to participate you must do the following:

  • Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as RW Miyami or RW Welsh Wall) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
  • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
  • Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
  • The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown RU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends.
Week 2 Deadline: Thursday, March 30th at 8 PM GMT -4
 
Last edited:
Reserving for Archive.

Week 1: Won by MohHumG

Ribombee
Ability:
EVs:
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-


Dhelmise
Ability:
EVs:
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-


Week 2: Won by Senpai D.M

Meloetta
Ability:
EVs:
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-


Glalie @Glalitite
Ability:
EVs:
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-


Week 3: Won by HypnoEmpire
Bruxish
Ability
EVs
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-


Araquanid
Ability
Evs
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-
 
Last edited:

Feliburn

is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
RU Leader
RW is a cool project and all, but I'm confused as to why the pokemon being researched are forced to be locked into a specific set (Specs Ribombee and Disable Salazzle for example). The idea behind a Research Week project is to experiment with the mons nominated and see what sets, spreads, teammates, etc., work better with it, instead this is forcing players to use a predetermined set for said mons which I think really limits the "research" that can be done with this, especially early in the gen where there are plenty of sets to be tested. I agree you could post sets as a way to lead other players who don't know what to run, but I believe it shouldn't be enforced like that.

Anyway I'll use ribombee

rw whistling
 
Alright, since some of you have wanted me to unlock the sets, here you go:

Ribombee
Ability:
EVs:
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-


Dhelmise
Ability:
EVs:
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-
 
Last edited:

Mac3

im reminded theres no finer place to kiss
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I'll test Spex Ribombee, with RW1 Mac3 In RU
already used RW1 Mac3 for uu
 
Ok so I've been using ribombee all day to see what all the buzz is about, and I should probably post here before I get banned from showdown for my bee puns. I only used specs, I don't think QD has any merit, at least without magneton (and even then its pretty bad).
In my experience, ribombee functions a lot like specs swellow, only a lot more niche. Both of them are strong pokemon with attacks that really sting, and outspeed pretty much the entire unboosted tier and clean up-that is too say, they don't ohko many things but just sweep once everything left is at about 70%ish. The reason ribombee is more niche is bee-cause it isn't as strong as swellow is, but it's typing gives it a few more switch ins, and the 2nd stab gives it options for what it needs weakened - you only need to eliminate all your opponent's bug resists or fairy resists. It can also switch in easier then swellow can, thanks to the 4x fighting resist and dragon immunity, as well as sleep immunity, which I found way more useful then a ground and ghost immunity. Unfortunately, it's bulk is still terrible. If you predict wrong and try to switch in on a bewear hammer arm and eat a frustration, it's an ugly sight. Even then it's not entirely safe, as CB hammer arm actually 2hkos bee with rocks and moonblast doesn't ohko from full.
Obviously there's still a week to go, but right now ribombee is seeming like a B-/C+ mon to me. It isn't the overall best mon at what it does, but it isn't shab-bee, it has a clearly defined roll and niche reasons to use it. It's pretty hit or miss, and there's a lot of battle where it's nothing more then death fodder, but there are also games when the opponent makes one wrong play and loses their steel type early and well, you know - my opponent gets their daily dose of vitamin bee.
 
Last edited:
Sup Guys. So I have been experimenting with these mons alot and, appropriatley, I am going to share my thoughts on both of them. So I would like to begin with my thoughts prior to using these mons. I originally thought that I would enjoy and see bee to be the superior mon, as I had previously encountred it quite often. However I was pleasantly suprised to find that Dhelmise was a rather cool mon and Ribombee...Not so much :P .

Ribombee

Firstly Ribombee. I decided to go with Quiver Dance since most who chose to experiment with Ribombee chose specs, so for the sake of diversity I chose QD. My initial thoughts for team support for this mon were spikes. I also decided to pair with Dhelmise since some of what Anchor baits in can be set up on by bee while also providing a spinblocker and a spinner.(I was inspired to use this core from something I tried in UU with Decidueye + Specs Primarina, which functions similarly.) I went with fairium Z in order to muscle past more defensive walls. Overall, Ribombee was extremley underwhelming. Constanlty, throughout my great deal of time using it, I fealt that that slot could have been filled by a much more useful mon. Its main issue lies in, I feal, its lack of power. Being a sweeper reliant on its specific defensive typing to set up is unfavourable in this meta as it is forced to set up earlier than it desires. This forces it into a role of a setup breaker which it cannot fill due to its mediocore special attack stat, even at +1. Even if you are able to muscle past its omni-present checks, Its still falters to mons which can tank a hit from any of its coverage, even while using a Z-Move! Even resisted priority can take out a weakend Ribombee such as sucker punch from Honchkrow. Wearing it down isn't too hard either due to its weakness to rocks and choices of mons which it sets up on which usually click a move to wear down or weaken Ribombee for a partner. This is all asuming you get to +1! Its speed tier is frankly saddening, falling just short of swellow. If you are not at +1 your team is essentially 5 pokemon tbh. Overall, I fell there is the slightest of niches for both sets, but not to warrant a place on a serious team at the moment.

Dhelmise

As I have stated in the RU chat, priot to using Dhelmise, I assumed this mon would be completley garbage and I would definatley dislike it. But after discovering an underlying niche for it I have come to enjoy using this mon! I decided to experiment with Assault Vest the most to maximise its pivoting capabilities, but I have tested more offensive sets. Similar to the team above, I paired Dhelmise with hazard stack on most of my teams built around it. For these teams, and all teams of course, Dhelmise provides the obvious role of a spinblocker. Now here is where one of the problems of Dhelmise come into play: Role competition. What I mean by this is the fact that other mons have similar roles to it but provide different, and often more useful, secondry uses. For example Sableye's role as a spinblocker and a stallbreaker or Donphan's role as a spinner with access to rocks and decent defensive typing. So 'what are Dhelmises' niches you ask?' While I see them to be its access to Anchor Shot and its defensive typing. Anchor shot is a very useful, stab-boosted, move as it pressures many defensive cores while also allowing you to gain momentum in any way you desire. On top of this, its defensive typing provides it with amazing synergy alongside the tiers common rockers allowing your team to maintain pressure while also easing the pressure on your defensive core. In terms of pressure, its high (131) base attack stat gives it that extra upper hand aggainst more defensivley oriented teams. However its typing is not perfect. I find that coming in on alot of spinners is risky since the most relevant ones, itself, Cryoganol and Donphan, pack supereffective coverage which stops it from coming in alot of the time. This is also the case for the tiers biggest offensive threats which Dhemise's typing is not useful against whatsoever. So overall, Dhelmise is mosty useful dependant on what your team requires so I think it does face very stiff competition in terms of a teamslot but it is a thoroughly enjoyable mon :) .

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-550683255- Only one relevant replay sadly :( .

So I hope you enjoyed my thoughts on these mons. Any questions feel free to PM me or talk to me in the RU Chat on Showdown. I would like to, if possible, make a nomination for one of the next RW mons and that is Meloetta. Mr.Aldo mentioned that he sees potential for this mon, though that maybe because he loves it so much :P, and I would definatley like to see how people would experiment with this mon alongside myself.
 
I had a really really busy day yesterday.

The winner is... MohHumG! Congrats!

This week's Pokémon are...

Meloetta
Ability:
EVs:
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-


Glalie @Glalitite
Ability:
EVs:
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-


Week 2 Deadline: Thursday, March 30th at around 8PM GMT -4.
 

Senpai D.M

さようなら
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Melo
Rw Mr. Senpai

Editing post rn
I agree with what's been said about Meloetta I also chose cm set as my wincon but the team I'm running can also run scarf/specs variants. I also wanted to share this team I used for research week :]

https://pastebin.com/sLRJbdZw
Meloetta is the teams wincon it sets up on quite alot in the tier it's also bulky enough to tank a hit if needed without setting up. Like I mentioned earlier I think scarf and specs are still viable options in the tier and could be tested with this team. I'm currently only on mobile so I didn't have a chance to get a replays xp

Decent replays of Melo
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-554836403

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-554829663

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-554824328
 
Last edited:
Entering as "rw2icameron", will be using Meloetta.

Edit:

I'm just going to add my thoughts to my original post to avoid cluttering the thread. So here goes:

Firstly, it's important to understand that Meloetta faces tough competition from several fantastic psychic types currently in the tier, for various possible sets, such as Gardevoir, Reuniclus, Cresselia, Necrozma, Uxie, Espeon, and Slowbro. So what sets her apart?

For one thing, Meloetta can also transform into her Pirouette form, and with this set you have a pretty cool physical attacker! In this case she has the same STAB coverage as Bewear, but with Knock Off and an amazing speed tier (outspeeds Swellow and Talonflame, ignoring gale wings), though unfortunately requiring you to use Relic Song first. However, I haven't really experimented with this set, so hopefully the others can cover that fairly interesting option more.

Back to her more standard sets, secondary normal typing gives a Ghost immunity, which can be quite handy when shadow ball is often used as coverage by her rival psychic types. Meloetta also has some interesting offensive options available to her, notably STAB Hyper Voice to hit Psychic and Dark types neutrally, Thunderbolt, and the always handy U-turn. This is all in addition to the standard psychic coverage moves of Focus Blast, Shadow Ball and Dazzling Gleam.

A specs set seems quite appealing, but is unfortunately somewhat outclassed by Gardevoir, who boasts a significantly better ability and secondary STAB, as well as a lack of dark (pursuit) weakness. The main upsides for Meloetta in this role are a slightly better speed tier (except vs weather sweepers) and U-turn, but that isn't really enough to make it worth it, imo.

Like probably most people in this thread, I decided the best niche for Meloetta was a Sub+Calm Mind set:
Meloetta @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
-

The EVs mean that her subs are not broken by Seismic Toss or Gligar's Earthquake, with the rest in speed, outrunning modest Nidoqueen and anything creeping her by a few points.

In the last slot, Shadow Ball lets you deal heavy damage to Doublade, Bronzong and other Psychics, with a 40% chance to lower special defense thanks to her ability, making it likely the best option overall. Dazzling gleam lets you hit dark types like Umbreon for consistent damage. Focus Blast has limited value in this meta, because steel types are either not weak to it or are setup bait anyway, while dark types are generally better dealt with via gleam. However, it still gives a way to hit most steel and dark types for at least decent damage, if you can land it. Personally, I went with the "spicy" option of Toxic in order to easily get past Pyukumuku and Haze Milotic, in addition to always beating CM Cresselia. It also provides a way to cripple dark types who no-sell your STAB (though Umbreon's ability poisons you as well).

Meloetta has the necessary combination of bulk and speed needed to make this set able to set up on a variety of passive mons, and it has significantly greater immediate power in contrast to the closest competitor, Cresselia: 292 vs 186 for uninvested, unboosted SpA, alongside superior coverage.

Obligatory replays, mostly low ladder because I'm bad, lol.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-552536793
Melo setup a sub on Shiinotic's Spore, then swept.


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-552558676
Melo crippled Cresselia with toxic, forcing them to switch in another mon against a +2 Meloetta behind a substitute.


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-552565466
Matched against somebody using the Linoone sample team. Melo used their Registeel as setup bait multiple times, using toxic to put a timer on Comfey should it ever attempt a sweep, and wear down Zoroark.


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-552589841
Melo sets up substitute on Chesnaught on the predicted switch, comfortably tanks two Boombursts behind her substitute, then KOs half their team, causing a forfeit.


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-553769482
Melo set up on a Vaporeon lacking Roar, proceeded to sweep their team.
 
Last edited:
So I settled on this set for Mega Glalie:

Glalie-Mega @ Glalitite
Ability: Ice Body Explosion
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe basically a guaranteed kill.
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Explosion

Spikes are also very usable, I just found I wasn't getting many chances to set them since Glalie isn't all that durable. So I went with Explosion, since fast Refrigerate Explosion is ridiculous.
Other move options include Double-Edge over Return for more power, and Freeze-Dry over anything else to hit waters (you may want Naive nature for this).

Glalie functions as a fast wallbreaker and situational revenge killer. "Click Return" is kind of the mantra. Ice Shard can stop a DD Flygon sweep in its tracks, or finish off weakened foes. EQ is general coverage, the highlight being that you can 1v1 Registeel in a pinch. Explosion deals massive damage and also allows you to bring someone in safely, which is great.

This set really hates Cloyster, who isn't bothered by anything bar Freeze-Dry, and Shell Smashes in your face. I recommend pairing it with Thunderbolt Registeel, who can safely switch into any of Cloyster's attacks and OHKO it.

A few replays (likewise low-ladder):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-554297203
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-554293232
 
I only ended up using mega glalie during the week. Would have liked to use meloetta at some point since it fits my playstyle better but time flies.
Anyway, this is the set I ran:
Mega Angry Face @ Glalitite
Inner Focus (just in case of ambipom leads.)
Hasty, 252spe/252att/4spat (please though, run more spat. I didn't know this but you need spat to garuntee a ohko on mantine with freeze dry after rocks.)

Double Edge
Freeze Dry
Ice shard
Earthquake (Probably better off using super fang. EQ just doesn't do enough to doublade and registeel.)

So I didn't have a whole lot of success with glalie, but I think that isn't because it's bad, but because glalie really only fits on all out hazard stack hyper offense, and I just can't build/play ho very well. Glalie definitely pulled it's weight though, ice resists are in short supply right now, especially with mantine often being favored over milotic/slowbro. But the main draw to using glalie is that it threatens the four most common methods of hazard removel. Donphan, dhelmise, and gligar all drop to double edge, and mantine goes down to freeze dry with rocks and spat investment. This means that glalie can effectively funtion as a spinblocker while in play, and with aggresive double switches can keep hazards up all game. Which is really nice since outside of zonger, all of glalie's counters are grounded, so spikes help glalie break stuff. Glalie also has a powerful stab ice shard which is huge for offense, revenging swellow and +1 flygon with a bit of prior damage, and weakening anything else troublesome to the point where a scarfer or sucker punch can finish the job.
Of course, the big downside to using glalie is that it has no defensive value whatever. It's defenses arent awful, but they aren't good, especially since you probably want to run mixed and subtract from one of your defenses. And of course, it's only resist is ice, and the only ice type attacks in the tier are basically it and sneasel. So glalie is the definition of niche - it does one thing very well but almost nothing else.

I still think meloetta is really underrated right now just from my experience against it. Scarf, subcm, specs, and even AV all seem usable. But I never used it so I won't discuss it further.
 

EviGaro

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
RU Leader
So I've been using this set for Meloetta:

Meloetta @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Hyper Voice
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

ORAS RU players might recognize the two sets I sort of put together here, as I went with the offensive CM set, but with the Sub approach. Main reasoning here is that while the bulk is appreciated still for a mon like Registeel, the speed affords you to keep a sub against far more important threats - oh hey FO Hera, you still here - and without Focus Blast chipping at Registeel is a long and arduous process. Main reason for Shadow Ball was mentioned by icameron, but basically it makes Meloetta a relatively interesting Doublade check, and with Serene's Grace it allows you to severely annoy other CM boosters and Pyukumuku.

As for my experience, this set has been quite good for me. Earlier I had it with Hoopa as a Scarfer for Craw Cup reasons, but I replaced it with Gardevoir and it made a huge difference, not in power, but in utility. Healing Wish is extremely useful alongside this set, as you can play more aggressively against stall teams knowing you have a fail safe in the back. In general it has really shone against stall, but it's been generally useful with its combination of bulk, power, and speed. As for the place in the meta, it's an interesting question. I've used pretty much all CM users except maybe Comfey, and to be honest it might just be my favourite. However, the lack of recovery is a severe issue for it without Leftovers, and offensive CM sets don't seem powerful enough, nor fast enough, to be as dangerous as they were in ORAS.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-553498704 - Against Shed stall without an Umbreon, so there was really no counter for it. Lack of preparation? I wouldn't necessarily say that because it's hardly even used, but it's obviously a massive threat.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-554434139 - I get mad lol. But seriously beyond that, Healing Wish shows why it's extremely useful while paired with Meloetta. Something like Shaymin can also work, while helping you deal with Scarf Heracross easier.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-554436430 - Similar use, with Healing Wish providing once again great support to help me pressure the Slowking another time. Oh, AV Slowking is also super underrated btw. Great mon.
 
And the winner is...

Senpai D.M! Congrats!

This week's mons are...

Bruxish
Ability
EVs
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-


Araquanid
Ability
Evs
Filler Nature
-
-
-
-


Week 3 deadline: Thursday, April 6 at 11:00 PM GMT -4

Slight week extension due to my not being able to update directly at 8.
 

cyanize

Mantra Good I Casted So Many Spells U Idiot
is a Community Contributor
Ooh, Araquanid. This mon bugs me a lot on ladder, so I guess it's time for me try it out.

alt: RW With You
 

HypnoEmpire

Yokatta...
Bruxish is looking to be an excellent Pokemon in this meta. As a Psychic-type, it is very difficult for most of our Psychic resists to wall Bruxish effectively thanks to its solid coverage in Waterfall and Crunch. Most of our Dark-types like Pangoro, Sharpedo, Honchkrow, and Sableye have a tough time switching in. Umbreon is the only Dark-type that comes to mind that can tank multiple hits, but even then it's pressured to click Moonlight or Wish whenever it switches into a Waterfall else it gets 2HKOed the next time Bruxish comes in. Other Psychic resists such as Bronzong, Escavalier, and Doublade are readily 2HKOed after Stealth Rock (or close to it), with only Registeel being notable as it can tank quite a few hits. Most Pokemon you would find on stall (yes, even Pyukumuku) are 2HKOed by Bruxish. Its speed tier is also very nice for such a strong Pokemon, beating out positive base 90 Pokemon like Roserade and Meloetta. Access to Aqua Jet is also nice as it can pick off Pokemon like Salazzle and Rotom-Heat after one or two rounds of Stealth Rock damage and create Sucker Punch 50-50s with Honchkrow, among other things. With my experience with Bruxish so far, Choice Scarf Gardevoir has proven itself as a great teammate. It scares away healthy Dark-types that can take a hit, cleans up after Psychic resists have been weakened or knocked out, and provides Trick and Healing Wish to help Bruxish even more in its matchup vs bulky teams. Also been trying out Spikes + Shell Smash Cloyster with it, I'll see how that goes. Bruxish looks like a very fun Pokemon to use so I'll definitely be going with that, but I might try out Araquanid too if I get around to it.

Alt: RW HypnosFish
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top