Metagame SM RU - RU Alpha Discussion - Month 2

What are you looking forward to in Sun/Moon?


  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .

phantom

Banned deucer.
annnnnnnnnnd at long last here's the official, really real stats:

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/gen7uubeta-1630.txt

drops:
Gigalith.

rises:
Arcanine,
Alakazam,
Kommo-o,
Ninetales-A,
Flygon,
Mienshao,
Togekiss,
Metagross,
Crobat,
Celebi,
Chandelure,
Klefki,
Absol-Mega,
Swampert.

Not a whole lot of differences from the other stats posted, but there's a few notable things in that Gigalith is the only drop RU got, and Roserade, Porygon2, and Haxorus all stayed in RU. Both Arcanine and Bewear narrowly managed to cling to UU, with Bewear just .01% away from dropping, while interestingly enough, Doublade is almost at the cusp of the cutoff. Food for thought: the next closest Pokemon to drop from UU are Mandibuzz and Empoleon, both with approximately ~3.8% usage.

Will update the OP with this info soonish.
 
Thankfully we don't have to worry about Torn-T since UU banned it.

Sadly, though, we still have Lucario and Haxorus to deal with. But I think we can manage it for the rest of this month. I hope.
 
One observation I've made - with Togekiss and Crobat gone, hazard stacking teams are much more threatening. Silvally-Ghost can spinblock, and with Braviary and competitive Milotic (actually a viable set this gen) around Defogging is often hugely risky. We may have to reexamine Shuckle and Froslass - we also have Galvantula to contend with now.

Speaking of Silvally-Ghost, what would be a good set for it?
 
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EonX

Battle Soul
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Honestly, the current state of hazard stacking kind of reminds me of BW2. For those of you that have never played that meta, we basically had Kabutops and Cryogonal as viable removal options. So why am I bringing this up? Well, that's pretty simple. A lot of times, you'd have to enter BW2 battles with the mindset of "most teams have Spikes bc of the viable spikers, so I'm going to need to plan around that." The main difference between BW2 and the current meta however are the spinblockers that reliably beat the main spinner, or, lackthereof. At least in BW2, the two main spinblockers could each beat one of the main spinners. However, Jellicent is really the only good "spinblocker" due to its ability to beat Donphan. As for as Defog defense goes, there's not a ton of ways to stop that reliably as Competitive Milotic has to run Toxic to have any shot against bulky Waters and Braviary kind of struggles to keep up in terms of Speed in this meta and if it chooses to fix that, then it pretty much is handled by more defensive teams (the types of teams Gligar will be on) as they're likely to have a sturdy Rock or Steel mon. That being said, there's one form of Defog prevention that I've been trying out and actually like quite a bit. I doubt I'm the first to try this idea, but I guess I'm the first to post about it(?)


Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 172 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Drain Punch / Leech Seed / Synthesis
- Wood Hammer / Leech Seed / Synthesis

While Chesnaught is definitely very good defensively, this set I feel gets a chance to shine now that Gligar is the main Defog user. Thanks to the Speed investment and Taunt, Chesnaught is able to stop Gligar from removing entry hazards from the field and continue doing as it pleases unless Gligar packs Acrobatics. The deal is made even sweeter since outspeeding Gligar means you're able to get an extra layer of Spikes before it attempts to U-turn out to a teammate after it's hit with Taunt, so yay for more chip damage! Aside from Spikes and Taunt, Chesnaught can run a couple of different move combinations. It needs a STAB move to not be complete Taunt bait itself while also dealing with Crawdaunt like it's designed to do via typing. Drain Punch allows Chesnaught to 1v1 Umbreon and Porygon2 lacking Ice Beam, which can be huge for teammates that have troubles with special walls. The Speed EVs allow Chesnaught to outpace 0 Speed Suicune, so Wood Hammer is also worthwhile to 1v1 that threat, but Scald burns + Speed creeping make this more dangerous. Leech Seed allows Chesnaught to inflict more chip damage on the opposition while also healing itself some more. Synthesis is a better option if Chesnaught is a team's primary check to Rock-type attackers on top of Crawdaunt as this can keep it from getting too overwhelmed. It's highly recommended to use Synthesis if Wood Hammer is the main STAB since Drain Punch at least guarantees recovery of some kind when used as most Ghost-types are slower and hampered by Taunt (main exception being Hoopa) whereas Wood Hammer comes with recoil that will wear Chesnaught down rather quickly with the lack of heavy Defense investment. The given EVs outpace Gligar and give Chesnaught as much physical bulk as possible afterward. You can go for a little more Speed, especially if using Wood Hammer to outspeed Suicune, Of particular note, 16 extra Speed EVs will allow Chesnaught to outspeed Adamant Crawdaunt (which isn't too common, but it's notable nontheless)
 
I realise this will be somewhat controversial, but Pyukumuku really should be on the watch list for banning next month. Not seen this mentioned so far, but honestly Pyukumuku stall is way too centralising, and Pyukumuku is the offender that walls way too much. If it doesn't fit the defensive criteria for suspects then I don't know what does, because Pyukumuku single handedly walls and beats probably 90% of the metagame.

It's easy to say just bring Taunt to shut it down, but Pyukumuku combined with Espeon shuts this option down vs all but a very few stall breakers that are otherwise very bad in the metagame.

It's worth noting that currently Haxorus does destroy stall, however I am near certain this thing won't last in RU, and without Haxorus you pretty much have to over prepare to actually beat stall right now.
 
I realise this will be somewhat controversial, but Pyukumuku really should be on the watch list for banning next month. Not seen this mentioned so far, but honestly Pyukumuku stall is way too centralising, and Pyukumuku is the offender that walls way too much. If it doesn't fit the defensive criteria for suspects then I don't know what does, because Pyukumuku single handedly walls and beats probably 90% of the metagame.

It's easy to say just bring Taunt to shut it down, but Pyukumuku combined with Espeon shuts this option down vs all but a very few stall breakers that are otherwise very bad in the metagame.

It's worth noting that currently Haxorus does destroy stall, however I am near certain this thing won't last in RU, and without Haxorus you pretty much have to over prepare to actually beat stall right now.
Pyukumuku stall just came up recently, it's way too early to tell if the playstyle is broken or not. We have strong wallbreakers like Heracross and Nidoking that help dismantle stall cores.

Let's not talk about banning/suspecting Pokemon until March.
 
Pyukumuku stall just came up recently, it's way too early to tell if the playstyle is broken or not. We have strong wallbreakers like Heracross and Nidoking that help dismantle stall cores.

Let's not talk about banning/suspecting Pokemon until March.
Nidoking doesn't do a lot vs out and out stall. Heracross can in theory do work if Gligar isn't running Acrobatics.

At its core Pyukumuku stall is no different from stall we've seen in the past, it's hardly a new concept. Ie. it's reliant on an Unaware mon to stop set up sweepers. The problem with Pyukumuku is its bulk is a different level to anything we've ever seen before. Very little that isn't a grass or electric type actually breaks it.

I understand not banning anything now, but why not discuss them, given I assume the council are going to come out with a ban list as soon as beta starts in March like UU did, so I assume there should be some discussion towards that.
 

Senpai D.M

さようなら
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Yea personally not a fan of acro but I get the niche of using it I guess lol. You could also u turn to something better to handle said mons :3
 

phantom

Banned deucer.
I understand not banning anything now, but why not discuss them
The reason for that is we don't know how much the tier is going to change in the following month, and because RU will only start banning when it has the ability to in that month, aka beta, it isn't conducive to be debating over bans in a metagame that's still up in the air. While lower tiers experience tier shifts all the time, the beginning stages are especially sensitive to volatile tier shifts, an example being this month's tier shifts, which was far more dramatic than every tier shift seen in XY/ORAS RU. Two things can happen the following month: the thing people want to ban ends up not being as bad because of how the tier changes or, the more likely scenario as we've seen just recently with Togekiss, Drizzle, and Alakazam (the three biggest threats in Alpha 1), the broken element itself just ends up going to UU or getting banned from UU anyway. Discussions on bans will happen during the start of beta, not in alpha. For now, it's best to focus on the current metagame without discussing bans until RU moves into beta in march.
 
I put together a threat list for everyone. Of course it's not definitive, especially at the bottom end, with Z-moves now there's just so much niche stuff that you can't be prepared for everything. The ranks are just my opinion, even though I've used viability style rankings to list everything obviously it's not official, it's just meant to be a team building tool for everyone, as right now you don't even really have a list of what is RU so it can be somewhat confusing to get into and then find your team gets 6-0'd by x top tier thread.

S Rank
Haxorus
Kyurem
Lucario

A+
Crawdaunt
Entei
Feraligatr
Hawlucha
Heracross
Honchkrow
Tornadus

A
Alomomola
Darmanitan
Goodra
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Reuniculus
Roserade
Snorlax
Suicune
Venusaur

A-
Escavalier
Gigalith
Gligar
Froslass
Milotic
Pyukumuku
Swellow
Zoroark

B+
Chesnaught
Cressela
Doublade
Dragalge
Durant
Espeon
Florges
Heliolisk
Hoopa
Porygon2
Registeel
Rotom-Cut
Salazzle
Seismitoad
Shaymin
Slowbro
Slowking
Stoutland
Toxicroak
Umbreon

B
Araquanid
Bronzong
Bruxish
Comfey
Diancie
Donphan
Dugtrio-Alola
Gardevoir
Jellicent
Jolteon
Meloetta
Moltres
Ninetales
Rotom-Heat
Torkoal
Tyrantrum
Venomoth
Whimsicott
Yanmega

B-
Aerodactyl
Blastoise
Braviary
Cloyster
Dodrio
Drampa
Galvantula
Glalie-Mega
Pangoro
Medicham
Noivern
Sanslash-Alola
Scrafty
Scyther
Sharpedo
Sigilyph
Slurpuff
Spiritomb
Talonflame
Uxie

C+
Abomasnow
Accelgor
Beartic
Cryogonal
Delphox
Druddigon
Emboar
Exploud
Komala
Lurantis
Lyanroc-Midday
Mesprit
Omastar
Persian-Alola
Qwilfish
Shiftry
Silvally-Ghost
Silvally-Steel
Sneasel
Toucannon
Victreebel
Virizion
Xatu

C
Cofagrigus
Drapion
Eelektross
Exeggutor-Alola
Garbodor
Granbull
Golem-Alola
Golisopod
Hitmontop
Kabutops
Machamp
Rhyperior
Piloswine
Poliwrath
Shiinotic
Shuckle
Silvally-Fairy
Vaporeon
Vikavolt

C-
Archeops
Aromatisse
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Golbat
Guzzlord
Lanturn
Minior
Mismagius
Silvally-Electric
Togetic


Even though it will probably invoke some discussion of x is better than y that's not really my intention at this stage. Although obviously I am open if you think I have vastly over/underrated something or missed something completely (definitely possible!).
 
I put together a threat list for everyone. Of course it's not definitive, especially at the bottom end, with Z-moves now there's just so much niche stuff that you can't be prepared for everything. The ranks are just my opinion, even though I've used viability style rankings to list everything obviously it's not official, it's just meant to be a team building tool for everyone, as right now you don't even really have a list of what is RU so it can be somewhat confusing to get into and then find your team gets 6-0'd by x top tier thread.

S Rank
Haxorus
Kyurem
Lucario

A+
Crawdaunt
Entei
Feraligatr
Hawlucha
Heracross
Honchkrow
Tornadus

A
Alomomola
Darmanitan
Goodra
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Reuniculus
Roserade
Snorlax
Suicune
Venusaur

A-
Escavalier
Gigalith
Gligar
Froslass
Milotic
Pyukumuku
Swellow
Zoroark

B+
Chesnaught
Cressela
Doublade
Dragalge
Durant
Espeon
Florges
Heliolisk
Hoopa
Porygon2
Registeel
Rotom-Cut
Salazzle
Seismitoad
Shaymin
Slowbro
Slowking
Stoutland
Toxicroak
Umbreon

B
Araquanid
Bronzong
Bruxish
Comfey
Diancie
Donphan
Dugtrio-Alola
Gardevoir
Jellicent
Jolteon
Meloetta
Moltres
Ninetales
Rotom-Heat
Torkoal
Tyrantrum
Venomoth
Whimsicott
Yanmega

B-
Aerodactyl
Blastoise
Braviary
Cloyster
Dodrio
Drampa
Galvantula
Glalie-Mega
Pangoro
Medicham
Noivern
Sanslash-Alola
Scrafty
Scyther
Sharpedo
Sigilyph
Slurpuff
Spiritomb
Talonflame
Uxie

C+
Abomasnow
Accelgor
Beartic
Cryogonal
Delphox
Druddigon
Emboar
Exploud
Komala
Lurantis
Lyanroc-Midday
Mesprit
Omastar
Persian-Alola
Qwilfish
Shiftry
Silvally-Ghost
Silvally-Steel
Sneasel
Toucannon
Victreebel
Virizion
Xatu

C
Cofagrigus
Drapion
Eelektross
Exeggutor-Alola
Garbodor
Granbull
Golem-Alola
Golisopod
Hitmontop
Kabutops
Machamp
Rhyperior
Piloswine
Poliwrath
Shiinotic
Shuckle
Silvally-Fairy
Vaporeon
Vikavolt

C-
Archeops
Aromatisse
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Golbat
Guzzlord
Lanturn
Minior
Mismagius
Silvally-Electric
Togetic


Even though it will probably invoke some discussion of x is better than y that's not really my intention at this stage. Although obviously I am open if you think I have vastly over/underrated something or missed something completely (definitely possible!).
That's a viability ranking, not a threat list.
 
I'm a casual player when it comes to RU, I rarely post in the RU thread but, I have played a good amount of games in RU and had some decent success on ladder. If there was a threat list, though, I could see it looking like this -
Sun - Very versatile with strong hitting threats in Choice Band/Grassium Z Entei and Choice Scarf/Choice Band Darmanitan; the chlorophyll set up threat in Venasaur (Victreebel can be quite scary as well with it's leniency in being able to go mixed attacking with priority sucker punch); bulky drought users in phys def torkoal (decent spinner) and special defensive ninetales (has a nice diverse movepool but, low special attack).
Sand - Gigalith is a very good user of sand as it allows it have more special bulk, chip damage, and being able to be a bulky pivot for sand abusers like Stoutland and Lycanroc. Lycanroc can afford to go adamant in the sand due to it's already great speed stat (even at adamant out of the sand it can outspeed base 95 pokemon), therefore, it can hit harder especially, with a swords up; it also access to priority in accelrock which allows to still function as a sweeper even against pokemon that have super effective priority like crawdaunt and bruxish. Stoutland is a great sand rush user even with a normal offensive typing; even when statused Stoutland can still do a lot of damage with Facade in it's arsenal; Stoutland also has a good movepool that allows it various threats like crunch, super power, play rough, the elemental fangs, and wild charge. There are other pokemon that do appreciate the sand that Gigalith brings like Aerodactyl since it too gets a special defensive buff due to it's typing.
Bruxish - A very strong threat can almost 2HKO the whole tier with a choice band. It sits at a very decent speed tier but, boasts solid priority in aqua jet that can do a lot of damage to faster frailer/weakened threats once it sets up an swords dance. Bruxish boasts the strongest psychic STAB in the tier with it's powerful Psychic Fang that gets boosted by Strong Jaw. Bruxish can also pull off choice scarf and can still carry aqua jet for the hard hitting choice scarf Darmanitan. Definitely Suspect worthy.
Darmanitan - A lot of people talk about how strong this is as a threat and for a very good reason, it straight up nukes a lot of pokemon. Darmanitan does have trouble dealing with bulky water types, though. Under the sun, Darmanitan is probably the strongest physical attacker in the game and requires a lot of counterplay (even if you do run bulky water types). Due to it's excellent ability, access to u-turn, above average speed tier, and sky rocketing attack stat, Darmanitan can easily pull off choice scarf. This pokemon is very easy to wear down, though. Top Tier threat.
Swellow - Definitely a well defined threat in the tier that outspeeds most of the meta and can 2HKO most of the meta with the ever so spammable Choice Specs Boomburst. Swellow also runs heat wave for steel types and hp grass for rock types. For bulkier pokemon like Gigalith that can withstand it's attacks, Swellow does have access to U-Turn for momentum on predicted switches. Swellow can also run sleep talk and Tailwind as tech moves. Swellow is very vulernable to priority users like Lycanroc, Crawduant, Bruxish, and Absol due to it's paper thin defenses. Top tier threat.
Crawdaunt - A strong pokemon that has very little switch-ins, and for each switch-in there is adaptability knock off. Crawduant is obviously slow but, still boasts a remarkable priority attack in aqua jet that is boosted by adaptability. What's so strong about Crawduant is it's Knock Off + Aqua Jet Combo that can easily put in work against most mons. A lot of the times Crawdaunt goes for Choice Band or Swords Dance (some people love dragon dance on it though). Definitely Ban worthy.
Aerodactyl - Thanks to Darkinium Z, Hone Claws gives Aerodactyl +2 attack instead of +1, with the additional increase in accuracy. Aerodactyl is quite fast and can oftentimes force switches on weakened threats due to it's decent movepool and speed, which allows Aero to pull off z-hone claws sometimes; it even has a better time setting up under sand provided by Gigalith. A Decent Threat to watch out for.
Machamp - Dynamic Punch is annoying. Also has nice bulk and decent priority in Bullet Punch. Top Tier threat.
Entei - Scared Fire + E-Speed. Top Tier threat.
Suicune - A very nice bulky pokemon that can pull a few sets in this metagame. CM reststalk, CM + 3 Attacks, Sub CM, and Scald + Roar Support. Suicune can come in on numerous threats while providing good support in scald. Top tier threat.
Haxorus - A fantastic Dragon Dance user that can pull off z-outrage or lum berry. Mold Breaker also allows it to plow through unaware Pyukumuku (fuck innards out tho); fantastic stallbreaker as a whole that can still deal with hyper offense. Top tier threat.
Stall - Wish Florges, Unware/Innards Out Pyukumuku (POOKOOMIKOO), Regenerator Alomomola/Slowking, Strength Sap + Spore Shiinotic, Thick Fat Snorlax, priority healing comfey, as well as a few others I'm forgetting.
Sharpedo - Speed Boost definitely allows this threat to dick with Hyper Offense. Not the best against Balance or Stall sometimes. Decent Threat to watch out for.
Cloyster - Decent as a suicide lead, even greater as a Shell Smash user. Top tier threat.

These are definitely the biggest threats that I've noticed while laddering up and my opinion on what a threat list would look like for sm ru alpha. So yeah.
 
Is it just me or is the tier lacking decent bulky steel types other than Duoblade and Bronzong? Registeel seems like a complete and utter momentum drain in this offensively focussed meta and I often find myself looking for a steel type when building, but can't seem to find any.
 
Is it just me or is the tier lacking decent bulky steel types other than Duoblade and Bronzong? Registeel seems like a complete and utter momentum drain in this offensively focussed meta and I often find myself looking for a steel type when building, but can't seem to find any.
Escavelier is a decent option. Megahorn is somewhat ridiculous to switch into for teams lacking proper resists, it offers pursuit tap support, and has a lot of flexibility in which sets it can run.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
Theorycrafted this Alolsian set a while back which looked kinda cool. Tried it in higher tiers - didn't do too well, but might work down here.

persian-alola.gif


Lord Jirall (Persian-Alola) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 216 HP / 24 Def / 16 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Toxic
- Parting Shot
- Switcheroo​

(for the small handful of you who've played The Last Story for the Wii, you might get the reference to that prick and I feel the same about Per-A lol).

Anyway, as Alolan Persian is known to abuse Parting Shot really well - I thought of a Scarf lead set with Switcheroo (which it gets). Switheroo can obviously cripple supports like Diancie / Alomomola and others, SR leads like Gigalith / Rhyperior / Registeel and Eviolite users like Togetic, Gligar and Golbat. Parting Shot speaks for itself at this point, as you screw over the offensive presence of things like Crawdaunt / Nidoking / Escavilier and similar whilst gaining initiative, and if that is on something that setup such as Haxorus / Venomoth / Dodrio can scare out - you can either A) use their Setup to punch a massive hole in something, or B) Double predicting what would scare out YOUR setup. Toxic is there for crippling walls like Alomomola and other supports you may have crippled with Switcheroo earlier, and Snarl is there as your attacking STAB, and patches up your weaker Sp.Def that Fur Coat cannot cover.

I'm aware that Darkinium Z may be more popular on, say, stall - but I think this set could help the likes of offense out a lot, or those whose wincons lose to RUs common walls.

If Per-A does take off with Sets like these, I can see Parting Shot getting suspected, as it's... dishonest, to say the least (and don't say Taunt, because it's a Dark type...).

With that - thoughts?
 

Ninetales @ Psychium Z
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hypnosis
- Nasty Plot
- Energy Ball / Solar Beam
- Fire Blast

Fun set I've been messing around on ladder. The idea is to use Z-Hypnosis to give yourself +1 speed and put your opponent to sleep, thus giving you a turn to Nasty Plot. From there, assuming you didn't miss Z-Hypnosis and Die, you fire off Sun-Boosted Fire Blasts and kill as many things as possible. At +1 Ninetales outspeeds any decent scarfer as well as most set-up mons at +1, and +2 Fire Blasts in the Sun hurt a ton even off a weak 81 SpA. Hypnosis gives you free turns too which is awesome. Functionally similar to Z-Hypnosis TG Xurkitree from OU, except Ninetales has sun to double its power. Unfortunately, the set is checked by most fire types and Gigalith if Sand is up (Though it can 2HKO most of them) and hard countered by Snorlax, so it's best used as a late-game cleaner after those are removed. Lastly, neither Z-Hypnosis nor Fire Blast are particularly accurate, meaning starting and continuing your sweep is always a dice roll.

Replays (Not particularly high-level but it's 3:30 AM and I want sleep):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rualpha-533714987 - Here, I play around my opponent's team until I can navigate in Ninetales, barely live an extremespeed, and take off, cleaning through the remaining members of my opponent's team.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rualpha-533724774 - I found the same guy an hour later and almost the same thing happened, but without the threat of Entei I set up at full, making me impossible to revenge for my opponent.​
 

fanyfan

i once put 42 mcdonalds chicken nuggets in my anus

Here's a cool idea for a set

Comfey @ Choice Specs
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fighting]
- U-turn

The idea of the set is to have a strong fairy-type priority move to rk some strong threats, like crawdaunt, hawlucha, heracross, honchkrow, and weakened frail offensive mons. The main problem is that comfey has a horrible movepool. Hidden Power is your best form of coverage, so carry mons to deal with poison, fire and steel types. This is probably not as good as the calm mind set, but for teams that want more immediate power, and a way to easily rk fairy-weak and frail mons, this set might be worth a try. Though, it isn't that powerful so it has a hard time rking anything not fairy-weak

Some calls: (leech life is draining kiss because the damage calc doesn't have an option for draining kiss)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Comfey Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 320-378 (119.8 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Comfey Leech Life vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 288-342 (93.8 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Comfey Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 206-246 (68.4 - 81.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes

252+ SpA Choice Specs Comfey Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Honchkrow: 330-390 (96.7 - 114.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Comfey Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 218-258 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes

252+ SpA Choice Specs Comfey Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haxorus: 264-312 (90.1 - 106.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
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EonX

Battle Soul
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So with some key Pokemon like Mega Absol, Alakazam, Metagross, and Crobat gone, I feel Espeon has gotten a whole lot better. While it may seem odd to say Crobat leaving was good for it, remember that it was a key faster physical attacker that could instantly build momentum with its super effective U-turn. It has an incredible base 130 Special Attack with ways to boost it and a high base 110 Speed stat that's enough to outpace numerous offensive threats right now. The main knock on Espeon would be its somewhat limited movepool (still gets most of what it needs) and the Psychic typing, which makes it Pursuit bait to the likes of Escavalier. Physical frailty does it no favors against powerful priority from Crawdaunt and Entei, but it does have the coverage (for Daunt) and power to keep those Pokemon from coming in directly. Overall, I've been having a good bit of fun with it, and here's a couple of sets I feel best utilize its attributes right now:

Espeon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psyshock / Hidden Power Fire / Trick


With a pair of Choice Specs, Espeon does incredible amounts of damage to most Pokemon. To put this in persepective, it OHKOes Haxorus w/o the need for hazards with Psychic, 2HKOes all variants of Gligar and Alomomola, and 2HKOes Calm Mind Florges and Curse Snorlax (before it boosts) with Psyshock after even the slightest prior damage. That said, Psyshock is generally the less useful STAB option unless you need to push through SpDef Diancie, so HP Fire is a very noteworthy alternative to 2HKO AV Escavalier (it OHKOes Band variants) on the switch. Shadow Ball covers bulky Psychics and Dazzling Gleam keeps away Dark-types looking to get in on Espeon's STAB move. Trick is rarely useful, but there are two key Pokemon Espeon fails to 2HKO without prior damage or significant entry hazard support (i.e. more than just SR support) in Umbreon and Porygon2. Both of these despise getting a pair of Choice Specs due to their reliance on support moves (Umbreon) or item (P2)

Espeon @ Psychium Z / Leftovers
Ability: Magic Boune
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball / Morning Sun / Substitute


While Calm Mind isn't as strong as the Specs set right now, it's still the best way to boost Espeon's Special Attack since Celebrate isn't compatible with Magic Bounce. Psychic hits most Pokemon harder, although Psyshock notably hits Diancie, Snorlax, and boosted Suicune harder. Dazzling Gleam is mandatory to fend off Dark-types and it hits opposing Psychic-types for neutral damage. Shadow Ball is preferred to hit Psychic-types hard, but Morning Sun can improve Espeon's performance against more defensive teams that have limited ways to push damage onto Espeon. Substitute is another more defensive option that allows Espeon to do better against offensive teams with priority users or Choice Scarf users. Psychium Z is nice for the 3 attacks variant to have a one-time nuke, but note that Z-Psyshock doesn't retain the physical damage property. If Morning Sun or Substitute are used, Leftovers is preferred to capitalize on the reliable recovery or prevent Subs from wearing Espeon down too quickly. While the given spread is almost always preferred, a much bulkier spread can be used to setup on specific threats or dodge key KOes with the Morning Sun variant.

Espeon @ Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Morning Sun
- Psychic


While Dual Screens offense isn't a common playstyle, Espeon is one of the better choices thanks to Magic Bounce preventing Defog and a high base Speed to outpace many offensive Pokemon. Reflect and Light Screen are pretty basic and Morning Sun allows Espeon to reliably reset Screens multiple times. Psychic is a STAB option to KO most, if not all, targets weak to the move. The EVs just maximize overall bulk and Speed so Espeon can set up Screens as quickly as possible on as many Pokemon as possible. Light Clay is obvious to extend the duration of the Screens Espeon sets.

Z-Celebrate Espeon should use the same three move coverage as the Calm Mind set uses, but I feel it isn't quite as effective as it loses the utility of Magic Bounce in games where Espeon has a hard time getting a sweep (such as against Snorlax, Escavalier, etc.) and even though Espeon fares better against priority with Z-Celebrate, one can do a similar thing with the Calm Mind set by using Substitute, which also lets it escape Pursuit Escavalier. I have a pretty intricate bulky EV spread for CM Espeon, but considering I didn't make the spread for myself to use, I'll let that user talk about it should it turn out to be good.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST

Here's a cool idea for a set

Comfey @ Choice Specs
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fighting]
- U-turn

The idea of the set is to have a strong fairy-type priority move to rk some strong threats, like crawdaunt, hawlucha, heracross, honchkrow, and weakened frail offensive mons. The main problem is that comfey has a horrible movepool. Hidden Power is your best form of coverage, so carry mons to deal with poison, fire and steel types. This is probably not as good as the calm mind set, but for teams that want more immediate power, and a way to easily rk fairy-weak and frail mons, this set might be worth a try. Though, it isn't that powerful so it has a hard time rking anything not fairy-weak

Some calls: (leech life is draining kiss because the damage calc doesn't have an option for draining kiss)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Comfey Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 320-378 (119.8 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Comfey Leech Life vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 288-342 (93.8 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Comfey Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 206-246 (68.4 - 81.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes

252+ SpA Choice Specs Comfey Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Honchkrow: 330-390 (96.7 - 114.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Comfey Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 218-258 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes

252+ SpA Choice Specs Comfey Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haxorus: 264-312 (90.1 - 106.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
I certainly like the idea, but it does seem like a symptom of meta centralization tbh in the sense that you're using a Support offensively. Once those would likely-be broken threats go: I doubt Draining Kiss would be as necessary on the set. Maybe try Grass coverage over it, and maybe Scarf U-turn + Natural Cure?
 
I certainly like the idea, but it does seem like a symptom of meta centralization tbh in the sense that you're using a Support offensively. Once those would likely-be broken threats go: I doubt Draining Kiss would be as necessary on the set. Maybe try Grass coverage over it, and maybe Scarf U-turn + Natural Cure?
Draining Kiss is a priority move thanks to Triage, which looks like is the whole idea of the set. I know specs priority to revenge stuff like haxorus and hawlucha is cool, but aside from that and mono fairy typing, Specs Gardevoir would be an outright better option.

Since I'm talking to ya here, why do you find Parting Shot suspect worthy? I don't see how the word 'dishonest' conveys much. Oh, and you can still taunt Alolan Persian, it's just that prankster priority does not occur
 

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