STABmons Viability Ranking

Status
Not open for further replies.
didnt see a lot of espeons in gen 6. how often does it run Dazzling Gleam? Without it, sableye can tank anything espeons got and ohko with a +2 foul play. and dazzling gleam hurts espeons coverage outside of sableye.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
didnt see a lot of espeons in gen 6. how often does it run Dazzling Gleam? Without it, sableye can tank anything espeons got and ohko with a +2 foul play. and dazzling gleam hurts espeons coverage outside of sableye.
I think it's slashed with Shadow Ball. SS / Psystrike or Stored Power / Judgment or HP Fighting / Dazzling Gleam or Shadow Ball. Have people switched to Lunar Dance somewhere on it? Or .... Miracle Eye?
 
In the current stabmons meta, no one's using support or defensive espeon. It's all shell smash+stored power/psystrike with coverage. Also, regardless, Bisharp and Ttar check espeon with pursuit/spunch unless you have the fighting coverage. As for miracle eye... its a gimmick... inb4 block+miracle eye+shell smash+stored power/psystrike
And as far as I have found in stabmons matches, espeons traditionally run shell smash,stored power/psystrike,(hpfight/fightjudg + shadow ball) OR (dazzling gleam + boomburst) correct me if i'm wrong.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
The main issue I have with Espeon is why not use Meloetta? Better typing, more versatility (can run defensive and specs while Espeon is much more one dimensional), and actual bulk. The only thing it has over Meloetta is speed (which isnt too relevant when the main form of revenge killing is priority and both outspeed most of the metagame after a smash) and Magic Bounce, which is a really nice ability but not as good as in Gen 5 since Sableye can now phaze Espeon out anyways. It also is technically stronger but Melo has 2 STABs and one of them is Boomburst / Techno Blast for those afraid of Soundproof "counters".
 
Magic bounce can also stop pokes like sableye which would taunt, as well as stopping pokes like sableye landing a topsy-turvy. Also, with STAB 140bp stored power at +2, that's a 420 power attack there, there's not much else needed for some STAB; at +2, a neutral attack still hurts, such as shadow ball. Also, as stated earlier, both of Meloetta's STABs are useless against Sableye, so the additional normal STAB isn't as effective.

Also, thoughts on promoting shedinja? I've been testing it out in STABmons for pivot and it has been working very effective on my stall team, especially with the ban of Mega Aerodactyl. While defog support is essential, standard stall pokes such as chansey and (for me) skarmory can clear away hazards (rapid spin/defog respectively). It also may require aromatherapy/heal bell support for additional caution. Additionally, weather is extremely rare in the STABmons metagame right now except for the MegaZard Y Blue Flare and Tyranitar, in which shedinja can generally u-turn or bp away from the threat (or just switch). I had a battle (i forgot who and didnt get a replay) in which shedinja would u-turn while heavily damaging tyranitar: 252+ Atk Shedinja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 182-216 (45 - 53.4%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO, 252+ Atk Shedinja X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 152-180 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. Also, Shedinja gains access to U-turn in STABmons as well as originally having BP for pivoting use (use bp if you fear ferrothorn). Shedinja also gains access to Sticky Web, Spikes, getting at least one guaranteed hazard up as the opponent switches into a poke that can hit shedinja. Shedinja can also precipice blades the heatran that switches in (i'm not joking, it happens a lot) and cripple/ko the heatran that switches in; shedinja onto a max def (which no one really uses) heatran cripples it for the rest of the match. 252+ Atk Shedinja Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 312-368 (80.8 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Shedinja is able to wall many pokes in the meta, but also struggles against several pokes in the meta and requires some support. Therefore, I believe B- is a fair rank.

Additionally, what about Regirock? Its excellent physical bulk can be combined with an assault vest to make it an excellent attacking tank with its base 100 attack. In STABmons, it also gains access to diamond storm, a more consistent stone edge with a chance to increase its defense even more. Regirock excels at checking Ttars and the bird spam in the current meta as well as winning against the standard shell smash lead espeon, but struggles to find much other use: turn 1 espeon shell smash, and regirock uses diamond storm: 252 Atk Regirock Diamond Storm vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 309-364 (114 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Should espeon land a stored power hit, +2 252 SpA Espeon Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regirock: 220-259 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. However, regirock struggles against status and gradual damage, as Drain Punch is a pathetic excuse for "recovery", making it require Wish support and possibly medic support; these are common enough in STABmons due to many pokes able to access normal type moveset of wish/heal bell/slow bp for safe wishing. Unfortunately, Regirock also lacks a moveset and ability to gain momentum. I think C rank might be reasonable
 

EV

Banned deucer.
C+ -> B-
For reasons outlined on the last page.
C -> C+
Are we underselling this? Prankster Spore sets are obvious, but it has some viability with helping to setup Geomancy. Spore also hits Sableye first before a Taunt or Topsy Turvy.
C+ -> B-
This thing is a great Steel deterrent and fantastic lead with lots of options. It plays similar to its standard role with the exception of stronger Fire STAB.
B -> A-
Blows things up. On top of that it's bulky and 78 Speed isn't bad. It's the same as another former offensive powerhouse ...
B+ -> B or B-
Not as efficient as checking physical threats. Rocky Helmet sets are fun to toss in against FakeSpeeders, but it loses against Braviary and against other top threats like Landorus, Thundurus, Kyurem, Greninja, Heatran, Aerodactyl, Scizor with Fuck Missile ... Ferrothorn is almost always better.
 
I've tried out whimsicott, but with terrible results. While it has prankspore and can geomancy, it gets easily walled by heatran(4x resists its stabs) and simply lacks any offensive presence. It may have some form of viability in support, but if it does, i'm not sure what it is. maybe aromatherapy?
+2 252+ SpA Whimsicott Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran: 312-368 (80.8 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
heatran switches in, unless you predict right,chances are,whimsi dies.
 
C+ -> B-
For reasons outlined on the last page.
C -> C+
Are we underselling this? Prankster Spore sets are obvious, but it has some viability with helping to setup Geomancy. Spore also hits Sableye first before a Taunt or Topsy Turvy.
C+ -> B-
This thing is a great Steel deterrent and fantastic lead with lots of options. It plays similar to its standard role with the exception of stronger Fire STAB.
B -> A-
Blows things up. On top of that it's bulky and 78 Speed isn't bad. It's the same as another former offensive powerhouse ...
B+ -> B or B-
Not as efficient as checking physical threats. Rocky Helmet sets are fun to toss in against FakeSpeeders, but it loses against Braviary and against other top threats like Landorus, Thundurus, Kyurem, Greninja, Heatran, Aerodactyl, Scizor with Fuck Missile ... Ferrothorn is almost always better.

I can definitely get behind Weavile, perhaps even B? Considering I'm the one who brought this up, I would support :p.

Whimsicott is really mediocre from my experiences. The only thing it really offers is a quick Spore, which can certainly come in handy. However, beyond this it's really not super interesting. I'd have to say its best set is Spore / Memento / Giga Drain / Moonblast, so it has a bit off offensive presence. Geomancy isn't that great either, as Whimsicott just lacks the raw power. Not really sold on this one moving up quite yet.

Haven't played with Infernape a lot, but it seems sketchy. Why use it over Lead Aerodactyl or Lead Landorus? It has V-Create (or something I'm missing?) that's pretty cool, which is why it's C+. I really don't see it fitting in to a rank with Bisharp or Hydreigon, which stand out as very notable Pokemon that can fit a mold for the current metagame. In strict terms of viability, would you rank Infernape with Raikou? I personally wouldn't. C+ seems fine for it.

Definitely not supporting Mega Blastoise. While it hits like a truck, it has several notable flaws preventing it from being in the A Ranks. Firstly, its speed. In an offensive metagame, 78 isn't that great. Is it terrible? No. But, against offensive teams, it's lacking and that is noticeable. Its bulk isn't very relevant when it lacks any form of recovery, either. It can tank a hit or two, but then it's not doing much. It's a powerhouse, but it's got an opportunity cost. I'll compare it to Mega Charizard Y. Both are insanely powerful nukes, but they fulfill slightly different agendas. For what it's worth, Fire Blast from Mega Charizard Y is more powerful than Origin Pulse, and so is Blue Flare. If you're using it for a Rapid Spinner, than you're gonna miss out. No Leftovers, you're not investing in Speed, and you're worn down by every entry hazard. Instead, purely offensive is the way I think it should go. Origin Pulse / Ice Beam / Dark Pulse / Coverage is a set I like, and is a solid use of Mega Blastoise imo. I don't see Mega Blastoise in the same rank as Mega Diancie (which should move up btw) simply because it has so many flaws to it that hold it back.

Agree with Tangrowth, that hype train has died down.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Haven't played with Infernape a lot, but it seems sketchy. Why use it over Lead Aerodactyl or Lead Landorus? It has V-Create (or something I'm missing?) that's pretty cool, which is why it's C+. I really don't see it fitting in to a rank with Bisharp or Hydreigon, which stand out as very notable Pokemon that can fit a mold for the current metagame. In strict terms of viability, would you rank Infernape with Raikou? I personally wouldn't. C+ seems fine for it.
Well, as a lead it has a lot of options: Rocks, Taunt, Encore, Final Gambit, and U-turn. Plus it gets stronger STAB with Blue Flare, V-create (like you mentioned), High Jump Kick, Iron Fist Drain Punch (probably too frail for that tho), and good standbys like Close Combat. I like it because it can plow through cores that rely on combinations of Heatran, Ferrothorn, Chansey, Skarmory, and Aegislash for any part of their cohesion. Terrakion is better, sure, that's why it's A rank, but Terrakion struggles against Landorus-T a lot whereas Infernape can 2HKO with a special Fire attack and outspeed any non-Scarf variants, and still fulfill Terrakion's role as a fast Fighting-type with Rocks.

Idk, it comes down a lot to team synergy when Infernape is needed. I just think it deserve more recognition, especially since it has more utility options.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
Magic bounce can also stop pokes like sableye which would taunt, as well as stopping pokes like sableye landing a topsy-turvy. Also, with STAB 140bp stored power at +2, that's a 420 power attack there, there's not much else needed for some STAB; at +2, a neutral attack still hurts, such as shadow ball. Also, as stated earlier, both of Meloetta's STABs are useless against Sableye, so the additional normal STAB isn't as effective.
Sableye still beats Espeon because Parting Shots phazes it away. I guess you don't get Prankster T-Waved by Thundy, but Thundy isn't always Prankster and basically has to sack itself to stop your sweep (or get the skill full para ;]). And not only does Meloetta also have this 140 BP Stored Power (and can get it easier since it has more set-up opportunities, not to mention abuse it better since it has a STAB to use pre set-up), it also has its stupid strong Boomburst at the same BP (except spammable at the start). I don't think there's a mon in the game that quad resists both Stored Power and Boomburst / Techno Blast, and even with a resist at +2 nothing enjoys eating a 140 BP STAB off of 128 SpA. You also aren't forced to run Boomburst / Techno Blast (although it would be silly not too) - they both basically have the same movepool, so Meloetta can run the exact same movepool as Espeon and do it better imho.

Obviously Magic Bounce is a great ability, and lets Espeon not be 100% outclassed by Meloetta, but when the main reason why you'd want Magic Bounce doesn't stop Sableye anyways, its clear to see why Meloetta is generally better than Espeon.

I agree with all of TEG's placement outside of M-Blastoise. While it is a huge walking nuke with Origin Pulse, it's speed and lack of reliable recovery let it down. It doesn't even have things like Taunt to be a better stall breaker. Then there's the fact that it's a mega and faces huge opportunity cost from Zard-Y (which I think is generally better as a walking nuke and stall killer, rock weakness aside) and to a lesser extent the other megas such as Scizor and Sceptile. Hell I'd put it in B-, but B is fine.

As for Tangrowth, it does still beat Stout and Kanga unless they run skill LO Ice (or Fire) Fang / Punch respectively (for Lando-T and Skarm, although Fire Fang is generally worst than Wild Charge for this it can pop Ferro without having to use Superpower). It also has Regenerator to keep itself healthy throughout the match and can abuse Seed Flare and Knock Off. It does lose to the ever present Flying-types but most of the Grasses do (even Ferrothorn despite not being weak to it). You can run Assault Vest and deal with things like Gren (to an extent) and Manaphy pre-Tail Glow, especially variants without Ice Beam. B is good for it imho.
 
Can someone give me an example of an Aegislash set?
Shift Gear or Mixed are the main two. Shift Gear is typically Shift Gear / Gear Grind / Shadow Force / [Sacred Sword / King's Shield], while Mixed is typically Shadow Ball / Doom Desire / King's Shield / Hidden Power Ice. There's slight variations in each, but these are your typical Aegislash sets. A few examples include SubToxic, running another Hidden Power, or using Destiny Bond as a lure.
 

MAMP

MAMP!
Shift Gear or Mixed are the main two. Shift Gear is typically Shift Gear / Gear Grind / Shadow Force / [Sacred Sword / King's Shield], while Mixed is typically Shadow Ball / Doom Desire / King's Shield / Hidden Power Ice. There's slight variations in each, but these are your typical Aegislash sets. A few examples include SubToxic, running another Hidden Power, or using Destiny Bond as a lure.
Not really much of a mixed set if its running solely special moves
 

EV

Banned deucer.
I think Shift Gear is more like SG / Shadow Force / Sacred Sword / KS or Sub or Steel attack. Ghost/Fighting is perfect coverage and Shadow Force baits Normals that get wrecked by Sacred Sword.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
Don't forget the legendary SubToxic set, which does a lot of work. Also I'd heavily consider Gear Grind on a mixed set, as it lets Aegislash actually check non-Flamethrower GeoKiss, which is a huge threat.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
I think Shift Gear is more like SG / Shadow Force / Sacred Sword / KS or Sub or Steel attack. Ghost/Fighting is perfect coverage and Shadow Force baits Normals that get wrecked by Sacred Sword.
I run exactly this with KS and it works really well, also beats fake out and in crying game allowed me to bypass lopunny's aids. Shift Gear Aegislash doesn't really care for the steel coverage because it doesn't hit very much that is relevant, it is just a powerful stab move that is there. Shadow Force / Sacred Sword is all it really needs.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Okay, serious question. Why exactly is Snorlax in D rank?
I guess we just forgot about it after diggs ban because we've been focusing on the scrappy normal types, but tbh snorlax is an extremely powerful threat. It has decently high attack (same attack stat as Stoutland, for reference), but unlike other fakespeeders, it has insanely high bulk. It's an amazing check to special attackers on offensive teams. Extremely underrated.

Deserves B+ at the least, probably A-.
 
I guess we just forgot about it after diggs ban because we've been focusing on the scrappy normal types, but tbh snorlax is an extremely powerful threat. It has decently high attack (same attack stat as Stoutland, for reference), but unlike other fakespeeders, it has insanely high bulk. It's an amazing check to special attackers on offensive teams. Extremely underrated.

Deserves B+ at the least, probably A-.
Do you have replays of it in action? Jumping from D to A- is incredibly sketchy...
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Do you have replays of it in action? Jumping from D to A- is incredibly sketchy...
No, but I don't think it needs replays to see that D is a completely wrong place for it to be. Of course jumping from D to A- is a huge gap, but that's because it doesn't belong all the way down there in the first place.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
I guess we just forgot about it after diggs ban because we've been focusing on the scrappy normal types, but tbh snorlax is an extremely powerful threat. It has decently high attack (same attack stat as Stoutland, for reference), but unlike other fakespeeders, it has insanely high bulk. It's an amazing check to special attackers on offensive teams. Extremely underrated.

Deserves B+ at the least, probably A-.
It is a worse Stoutland because of that terrible Speed. It lacks Scrappy and faster Ghosts can immobilize it or KO if it tries to Belly Drum. As a special sponge, why not use Chansey? Or if you need some offensive presence, Analytic Porygon2? If you need a spinner again Stoutland outclasses it with Scrappy.

I saw you use some 4 Attacks set I'm assuming was Assault Vest, so maybe that has some merit. I think if other things didn't exist it would be good, but currently it's very niche.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
I think a big part of what makes Snorlax stand out is that not only can it revenge shit but it can also do so multiple times without needing a free switch. Its bulk allows it to come in on stuff like Lando-I while also directly threatening it. Its like a stange combo of Stout and Pory2 (whch, by the way, lacks strong priority unlike Snorlax). I dont know about A-, personally I think B or B- is more fitting.
 
Do you have replays of it in action? Jumping from D to A- is incredibly sketchy...
I know for certain that adrian used espeed snorlax on a team once, and it worked incredibly well as a stall poke which could still threaten the opponent with espeed. maybe B would be okay. its sorta like a less bulky chansey that can threaten offensive pokes like thundy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top