Metagame Sun and Moon Doubles Discussion Thread

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Yellow Paint

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you can use z moves whenever you want, it's like mega evolving.

btw, do you guys know if z moves actually remove the protect state or do they just leak damage through?

Also, do you think we'll be able to select two z moves in a single turn? z moves aren't like mega evolving, which always happens at the start. Since they can be interrupted with flinch/getting koed early, would it make sense to be able to double up?
 

Pocket

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Yea, I think Z moves can't be knocked off like Mega Stone, and it gets used up when Z move is activated. What I want to know is if we can hold a Z crystal and a mega stone on the same team? I've watched videos speculating that the trainer's bracelet only has a slot for either item... Z moves may be Game Freak's way of potentially limiting the use of Megas.
 

Yellow Paint

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Araquanid (Bug/Water)
68/70/92/50/132/42
Water Bubble

Apparently, water bubble not only halves fire damage, but also doubles the base power of water attacks. Araquanid hits about a life orb harder than azu with better bulk and burn immunity, but it doesn't get ajet or bd.

Was I going somewhere with this? Not really tbh, just bringing up that araquanid now has the stats to potentially find a role, maybe as a bulky wide guard attacker or a tr sweeper.
 

Haruno

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Only 99 new mons added this gen (including alolan forms), probably the least expansive out of all the transitions. I don't appreciate some of the nerfs, either (they nerfed everything that is good about paralysis and did not address the main issue (FPs); Gale Wings nerf (rip talonflame)).

The legendaries are going to shake the meta. Test Bot covered the Tapus, but I am particularly excited for Bulu. Tapu Bulu would be a saving grace to all the grounded mons susceptible to Landotrus-T's Earthquake. Tapu Bulu itself can pretty much switch into Landorus-T's moves with impunity, as it essentially quad resists EQ, resists Superpower & Knock Off, and only take neutral damage to U-turn and Rock Slide. Will Sludge Bomb Lando-T become a thing? Who knows. It's also a nice check to Azumarill, being faster and resisting Aqua Jet + Knock Off. With Grass Terrain boost, Wood Hammer is effectively a Grass-type V-create with recoil instead of stat drops! Even after an Intimidate, Adamant Bulu's Wood Hammer is scraping off 70% min from Landorus-T, and it inflicts 38% min to Kyurem-B lmao. It also has good coverage to address Fire-types with Stone Edge, Rock Slide, and Superpower. Koko has an amazing Speed tier with a free boost in its Electric STAB. It also possesses Brave Bird; with LO it can easily 2HKO Amoonguss with Brave Bird :d

Xurktree, Buzzwole, & Kartana seem to me the most formidable Ultra Beasts. Insane offense with Beast Mode to further ramp them up in power with each KO x_x. Worth noting that Kartana is a solid check to Mega Diancie, although I don't know how well it would take Earth Powers and Moonblasts with its abysmal 59 HP / 31 SpD.

Marshadow has the golden Ghost + Fighting combo with an actually stellar physical Ghost move with excellent movepool coverage. PLUS Technician Shadow Sneak xd. Magearna also have a strong Fairy/Steel typing with great stat distribution and amazing movepool (Trick Room, Fleur Cannon) and an ability that is Beast Mode on steroids.

Outside of the legendaries, it's hard for me to predict which new mons would actually stand out. There are quite a few Wide Guard users iirc, so we don't have to always rely on Aegislash for spread protection any more. Incineroar has Fake Out + Intimidate, so it may compete with Scrafty as a TR supporter, although Scrafty is a lot bulkier and isn't weak to Quake Slide. Alolan Raichu may be a powerful cleaner late game with Electric Terrain doubling its Speed and boosting its STAB, only susceptible to Shadow Sneaks & Sucker Punches. Vikavolt is better than Xurkitree as a TR sweeper (lower Speed), but otherwise Xurkitree is better overall. The only advantage is Vikavolt's EQ immunity thanks to levitate. Belly Drum Kommo-O is also intriguing... can get a free speed boost with Adrenaline Orb, too, if Lando-T ever show its ugly face.

I don't think the new weather users would make weather more prevalent. The pre-existing weather users are arguably better than the new ones (although Pelipper may usurp Politoed as a Rain inducer). We may see more Terrains than weather as field condition, imo.
Is marshadow confirmed for release before 2018? Plz help.
 

kamikaze

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You can now play SM Doubles OU on http://dev.psim.us/

Mizuhime and I played the first SM DOU since its launch on PS. Replays arent properly setup but you can download and watch with this link

There will be a post regarding the SM DOU banlist soon but there is one thing that needs to be ironed out and finalized first.
 
what are popular cores that people are looking to run?

i've suggested bulu + incineroar but i haven't seen a lot else, i've also been intrigued by the idea of running a prankster mon with swagger and the fairy mushroom with strength sap for extra sapping action.
 
Tapu Koko + Raichu-Alola

The duo seemed alright. Taunt + Fake Out is sweet against Trick Room, and HP Ice is for Landorus-T, the one of a kind EQ user. While playing against Yellow Paint's Incineroar, I can confirm that Brave Bird doesn't do much against it when Intimidated.

Tapu Koko @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Brave Bird
- Taunt
- Protect

Raichu-Alola @ Aloraichium Z
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Ice]
 
There was this strategy that was being discussed in the Mudsdale thread: Have it paired with Toucannon and have Toucannon hit Mudsdale with Rock Blast/Fury Attack for a five-stage defense boost.
 
There was this strategy that was being discussed in the Mudsdale thread: Have it paired with Toucannon and have Toucannon hit Mudsdale with Rock Blast/Fury Attack for a five-stage defense boost.
id rather use beat up, but having only physical def boosted is lame. After all, most moves effective against ground types are special.
 
It can't be used on a protecting partner, and you can't use it to force an opposing mon to attack its ally. It sounds like it's a move made for the new battle royale mode.
I doubt it'll really be useful there, though. Battle Royal points are decided by how many Pokémon you knocked out + how many of yours are still conscious at the end. So you can help somebody else win with Spotlight, but I doubt it's going to do much for you.

Possibly it's useful for things like Destiny Bond, Revenge, etc. Or even just to redirect attacks to a Pokémon that's immune to them, gaining you a turn and possibly some benefit (Volt Absorb, Sap Sipper, etc.).
 
Hail + AV Lando seems incredibly strong on paper, as Lando beats nearly all of steels, fires, etc that fuck with Hail. Just watch out for Ice punch fighting-types, but you can run Aegislash for those.
 
Destiny Bond Z-Move redirects attacks in addition to destiny bond's original effects, which seems like a serious tech to run on mons like Hoopa or Gengar where the third move choice is often defined by team needs. Being able to force a suicide is an amazing way to deal with mons that would otherwise run through your team. The one downside I see is that it's single use and also forces a bit of a mind game. You'd have to be sure to time it right.
 

kamikaze

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http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-overview-rules-and-q-a-read-before-asking.3587197/

The Sun and Moon Doubles OU Banlist has been inputted into this thread. You can also see upcoming threads there as well. It will also be a place for Q&A in due time but I would prefer that be done here in the meantime and for people to properly learn the meta and new mechanics before that opens up.
Doubles OU is a format in which both players have two Pokémon on the field at the same time. All Pokémon except those on the banlist (found below) can be used in Doubles OU regardless of the Pokémon's tier in singles play. Unlike in VGC, all Pokémon default to level 100 instead of level 50 and all 6 members of the team are brought each game.

Play Restrictions

  • Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot use any moveset on any Pokémon capable of intentionally causing an endless battle. Thus:
  • A Pokémon may not carry Recycle and hold a Leppa Berry in conjunction with Heal Pulse and Milk Drink, Moonlight, Morning Sun, Recover, Roost, Slack Off, Soft-Boiled, or Wish.
  • A Pokémon may not hold a Leppa Berry while carrying Recycle and Pain Split.
  • A Pokémon may not hold a Leppa Berry while carrying Recycle and Fling.
  • Evasion Clause: Players cannot use the moves Double Team or Minimize.
  • Moody Clause: Players cannot use a Pokémon with the Moody ability.
  • OHKO Clause: Players cannot use the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold.
  • Species Clause: Players cannot have two Pokémon with the same Pokédex number on the same team
Pokémon Restrictions
Players cannot use the following Pokémon:
  • Mewtwo
  • Lugia
  • Ho-oh
  • Kyogre
  • Groudon
  • Rayquaza
  • Dialga
  • Palkia
  • Giratina
  • Giratina-Origin
  • Arceus
  • Reshiram
  • Zekrom
  • Kyurem-White
  • Xerneas
  • Yveltal
  • Solgaleo
  • Lunala
Move Restrictions
Players cannot use the following moves:
  • Dark Void
Players cannot use the following moves on the same team:
  • Gravity and sleep moves with below one hundred percent accuracy

The following is a summary of the changes to the SM banlist for the start of the metagame...
Bans:
Solgaleo
Lunala

Unban:
Swagger
Soul Dew
Salamencite
Shaymin-Sky
 
So this guy seems pretty good for doubles. Anyone have any thoughts on this fella?

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/741.shtml#

It gets Baton Pass and mimics the effects of any dance used. As a support who can baton pass it's partner's Dragon Dance/Quiver Dance to another mon and has a pretty ok movepool and good enough stats, it seems like a pretty fun edition to teams running Dance moves. It's special move, Revelation Dance is pretty solid. It also gets fancy stuff like Tailwind and U-turn.
 
Looking for some help on Uranguru. Want to use it on this team here



I got lots of double hitting moves that I want Uranguru to help abuse. Primarina with Sparkling Aria, Mudsdale with Earthquake and Rock slide. Salazzle with Venom Drench and Venoshock. I have 3 moves decided, but not sure on 4th move, item, Nature, and stat spread.

Modest? Nature
Psychic
Instruct
Foul Play
???

I do like the idea of Psychic Terrain, but I may not be able to get it until pokebank transfers :( What other good supporty/coach options are there?
 
been having fun with golisopod in doubles, First impression is actually quite savage. it eats certain stuff like greninja for breakfast, and water bubble plus rain make his aquajets hurts a lot...probably will be in the gimmick area and players will wise up, but is fun nonetheless...

Serperior with grassy terrain actually can kinda snowball faster than you say UB...

Regarding another mon im' loving in araquanid, actually I wonder if entertainment is really that gimmicky, or can become a real asset in the Mon, IMO what set gimmicks aside from strategies is how flexible and adaptable it can be.

Besides the obvious as Water bubble Golisopod or Water bubble gyarados, there can still be some surprises as water bubble Archeops with aqua tail, Water bubble Aninteails with HP water, Water bubble garchomp with aquatail, water bubble slaking, Water bubble lapras, water bubble Tapu fini, Keldeo...

And it doesnt end there cause Water absorb can open also some interesting combos too such as water absorb Hyppowdown, Water Absorb Tyranitar, incineroar, golem, Lando..

The thing is that all this pokemon can reap benefits from this abiities (from obscene water attacks, burn immunity, extra fire resistance or all the above ) while not missing their original abilities because they are either a hindrance, or activated only upon entering (intimidate, Setters)

In fact in a pinch you can actually put this on an enemy sylveon, or mega gardevoir, since they get screwed and barely would benefit (of water bubble at least)

And araquanid actually have the bulk to be able to use it, and not an expansive movepool to suffer a heavy 4MSS.

Is the wide array of potential targets you can choose that makes me wonder if this can be more than a gimmick, at least water absorb/entertainment seems like a decent anti rain strategy.
 
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kamikaze

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Before I misplace it, this is the list of currently available megastones.....

Gengarite
Scizorite
Pinsirite
Aerodactylite
Lucarionite
Kangaskhanite
Gyaradosite
Absolite
Alakazite
Garchompite
Sablenite
Metagrossite
Sharpedonite
Slowbronite
Glalitite
Salamencite
Venusaurite
Charizardite X
Charizardite Y
Blastoisinite

All other Mega Stones are unavailable and wont be legal in DOU until they get released in-game. However, PS may not properly reflect this and allow you to use other megas for the time being as things get situated.

EDIT: Kanto Starter Mega Stones have also been found so they have been added
 
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