Sun & Moon UU Speculation and Discussion Thread - Updated with UU Alpha!

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A couple Pokemon that have flown under the radar so far:

Volcanion is an awesome tank. Steam Eruption/Flamethrower/Bloom Doom/HP Ice deals with everything you need it to, and it has great defensive utility in dealing with Scizor and Jirachi (Tbolt-less), two of the best Pokemon in the metagame, as well as other stuff like Azu, Primarina, and kinda Zard Y. I could see a bulkier set with Leftovers working too. I personally would not use Specs right now, since STAB Steam Eruption off of base 130 Special Attack hits everything hard enough, locking into a move could give dragons and other stuff easy setup, and it requires a lot more effort than Bloom Doom to damage Water-types and other potential checks.

Swellow is really fun to use too and it feasts on the offensive nature of the metagame. With simply U-turn support from Scizor/Rachi/tons of other stuff, it can wreck unprepared teams, as the SAtk buff lets it OHKO frail-ish offensive threats like Mamoswine and Thundurus, and even 2HKO Pokemon like Cobalion. There are only a few commonly used switchins - Gigalith, Blissey, Empoleon, SDef Rachi, Mega Aero - which can be U-turned on easily. Outspeeding nearly the entire metagame is great too, and overall it's a really easy Pokemon to be weak to.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuualpha-509159339
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuualpha-509158508

Diggersby is another Pokemon I haven't seen too much of, but probably rightfully so, as Mamoswine is just a better version of it right now. The metagame is too offensive for any sort of setup Diggersby to do anything, and Mamoswine's priority is much better to pick off relevant threats.
I don't see how mamoswine is better than diggersby to be honest. Because diggersby gets swords dance, I think it definitely has a very solid niche.
 
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Hogg

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It's largely better because Ice Shard is incredibly useful in this tier, with offense killers like Zygarde-10% and incredibly dangerous 'mons like Dragonite, Salamence and Latias everywhere. As dod mentioned, the meta is so offensive that Diggersby struggles to find opportunities to set up, so largely it just clicks one of its STABs or U-turn. That puts it in direct competition with Mamoswine, who plays similarly but trades in U-turn and a stronger EQ for a much better secondary offensive STAB and Ice Shard, which is great insurance against a ton of huge threats.
 
One thing I just need to say is how excellent Electric-types are at the moment, and how hyped I am for them. Sure, though the abundance of Ground-types isn't very good for them, they do enjoy the water-and-flying type infestation that has only grown larger. Things like Suicune and Alomomola stay strong and kicking this generation, and with the new drops and additions of threats like Keldeo, Tornadus-Therian, Talonflame, Swellow, Azumarill, and Starmie, it's still getting better. In particular, there's old Cloud Unicorn Crocodile Dog himself.



Of course, the long-awaited drop of Thundurus-Therian. What makes the fifth or sixth 'mon based off of Raiju so special is in three factors: first of all, it hard counters other Electric-types almost without fail, secondly, it can actually switch into Ground-types before wrecking them, and of course is one of the best and most versatile stallbreakers and set-up sweepers the tier currently has. It's also no slouch against offense. Here are some of a multitude of sets I can see it running:

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Nasty Plot/Sludge Wave/Focus Blast/Hidden Power Ice
- Grass Knot
- Thunderbolt
Dancing Doggo

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Flyinium Z/Chesto Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Fly
- Rest
- Taunt/Sleep Talk
Bulk Up

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch/Hidden Power Ice
- Grass Knot
Taunt Stallbreaker

A replay showing how Thundurus-Therian matches up against faster and slower 'mons equally well, letting it clean up balanced and varied teams: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuualpha-509890358

Of course it should be noted Thundurus-Incarnate is probably better at being a raw Nasty Plot user or Thunder Wave disruptor, but thanks to its ability and superior special attack the sets above are better pulled off by Thundurus-Therian. Also, Thundurus-I is most likely going to either be banned or rise back to OU anyway, so might as well not get attached to it.
 
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Here's a fun little BW2 OU SuMo UU Rain Balance thing I put together over the weekend.



Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Encore
- Toxic
- Rest

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Thundurus-Therian @ Electrium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Agility
- Nasty Plot

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Protect

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Play Rough
- Magnet Rise

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Psychic
- Baton Pass
- Recover

Politoed's job is simply to keep up rain support for the rest of the team. Scald/Toxic/Rest/Encore is the set to increase longevity while still being able to take advantage of 'Toed's alright support moveset and not be setup fodder to all the scary things flying around at the moment.

Scizor is pretty good right now for obvious reasons such as insanely strong priority and a good set of resists backed by a decent defense stat, even univensted. Speed could definitely be an option on Sciz, but I like the bulky band more for a team like this, as the rain allows you to comfortably take random HP Fire from things such as Latias, and Fire Punch from defensive Rachi, and potentially get a Pursuit trap going. At the very least, Sciz is always great for momentum via STAB U-Turn, and revenge killing with a hilariously strong BP.

Thund-T is the tech on this team, with Electrium Z Tbolt on a double dance set. With Electrium Z, you have the option of utilizing a 175 Power STAB Electric move at any time of your choosing, which is a godsend for the Double Dance set. Since you can basically double your power for one turn at any point, a single Agility can mean GG vs a more offensive team without a sturdy Electric resist, while the offensive pressure provided with Nasty Plot + 175 power STAB will eat bulkier teams alive. The Z Crystal also allows you to easily check something like Gliscor, who's best move to hit you with is Stealth Rock thanks to the reduced Knock Off damage. Also, while I wouldn't switch directly in, Thundy doesn't really mind the presence of Scizor very much, being able to resist its STAB and even set up on BP if you can force them to lock into it. Very underused mon right now IMO, considering how disgusting this guy is. Definitely busted.

Tentacruel is just plain dumb. Its main purpose is to set T-Spikes and generally be a prick to any team that struggles to maintain adequate pressure vs. it. With the absurd amount of recovery you can get with Rain Dish + Black Sludge + Protect, there have been many times that this thing will be crippled early/mid-game, only to completely recover when all is said and done. Additionally, this is probably one of the best Scizor checks you could ask for, as bar a Knock Off it literally can not do a god damned thing to you. Similarly, Scarf Rachi is eaten alive without Zen Headbutt or Heart Stamp, and Z Happy Hour can't do anything without Tbolt/Psychic. My experience leads me to believe that Tenta will be very strong if we do end up seeing Weather down here long term, but for now I have to say this guy pulls his weight and often puts in a surprising amount of work, rarely failing to Spin and offering a nice amount of role compression for the price. Also, as always, Tenta hard-walls Keldeo if its not a CM variant, which is really nice at the moment.

I hate Klefki, god this thing is so annoying. However, it fits really nicely on this team for what its worth. Nothing has really changed for this set of keys; he T-Waves things and is almost always guaranteed a Spike. The Prankster nerf hurts, but priority hazards is amazing and he does a pretty good job of checking things like Weavile and Lati regardless, thanks to its excellent typing. This is also basically my only M-Sharp "check." I say "check" because if the rain is up it's most definitely not an answer, but I digress. I've never built a team that wasn't weak to at least 1 variant of MSharp anyways lol.

Celebi rounds out the team with SR support, being a bit of an annoying mon to deal with in the Rain. Sp.Def investment allows you to better deal with opposing Electric types since Thundy-T can get quite predictable on its own. Baton Pass is better than U-Turn IMO because it allows you to set Rocks without fear of Alolan Muk and Pursuit 'Zor trapping you, but U-Turn is 'aight for chip too. It also forms a nice little momentum core thing with Scizor, and also covers a lot of things that Tentacruel doesn't like such as Psychic and Ground attacks. Additionally, it helps takes some of the pressure off Tentacruel since there is some overlap in what the can check. This point is more match-up dependent, but the fact that you have multiple responses for some things is at the very least good for mind games. Psychic is the STAB of choice for maximum chip, and for slightly better overall synergy with the team allowing you to catch things like opposing Tentacruel.




Strangely enough, I don't think Auto-Weather is actually all that busted down here if you discount the really broken stuff like Torn-T/Thundy(T). Sand feels balanced, and I really like Gigalith as a generally tanky mon. Sun suffers from the fact that the setters are trash, many of the main abusers dislike Rocks, and Chlorophyll Sweepers tend to be a little underwhelming bar Venusaur. Sun also has an incredibly tough matchup vs. both Rain and Sand. Rain definitely feels like the one that may need to be looked at more closely down the line due to the fact that the playstyle as a whole is incredibly flexible. The amount of mons that can abuse the Fire Resist, the Water Boost, a Rain Ability, 100% Accurate Thunder/Cane, or any combination of the above is phenomenal, but I still think it deserves a chance without all the truly absurd stuff.
 
If you're using rain, I think this is the Politoed set you should use:

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Hypnosis
- Encore

220 Speed which is a solid benchmark for this metagame (Primarina, Bewear, -1 Victini, defensive stuff like Suicune and Cress). I honestly think that the Toxic Rest set gives up way too much momentum, especially Rest which doesn't seem like it has enough opportunity to heal up and keep coming back in without constantly letting in dangerous stuff. Rain never has room to run a cleric either. With Hypnosis though, you can give an opportunity to stuff like LO Torn-T, Swift Swimmers, and other offensive stuff to get a free switch after putting something to sleep. Encore's fairly obvious and standard. Ice Beam lets Politoed chip at some stuff that could be annoying for Rain like Hydreigon and Whimsicott.

Here's a rain team I made and thought was pretty good:
Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Hypnosis
- Encore

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
- Gyro Ball

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet
- Swords Dance

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- U-turn
- Taunt

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Grass Knot
- Rain Dance

Araquanid @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Poison Jab
- Sleep Talk
Kabutops and Tornadus-T are pretty obvious choices for a rain team, and the latter is really damn good because there are only like 2 common Flying resists. Thundurus is a great fit as well and lets me not rely 100% on Politoed for the team to be successful. Forretress gives me SR and hazard removal while letting me pivot into these three threats. Araquanid was a funny Pokemon I slapped on at the end but it actually turned out to be pretty decent, it's ridiculously powerful under rain and lets me check troublesome stuff like Keldeo, Mamo, and Zard Y Doesn't seem like it's a bad choice on rain teams for a wallbreaker with defensive utility. These calcs are under rain:

252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 248-294 (76.7 - 91%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 96+ Def Forretress: 290-344 (81.9 - 97.1%)
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 184-216 (55.5 - 65.2%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 428-506 (108.6 - 128.4%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 150-176 (37.1 - 43.5%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Araquanid: 114-135 (38.9 - 46%)
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Water Bubble Araquanid: 126-148 (43 - 50.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 114-135 (38.9 - 46%)
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 195-230 (66.5 - 78.4%)
 
So after theorymoning some weird shit I found out that Z Me First gives you +2 Speed, which is nice. Did some testing with it and if you attack first with Z Me First, you use the Z-move of w/e attack move your opponent is going to use and you get a x1.5 power boost on it, which sounds pretty damn good on paper.

I feel like this has some potential, but haven't come up with anything concrete; it's a really odd mechanic. Mew is probably the only Me First user worth using in UU, because in theory it should work well with NP / SD for a dual dance set on steroids.
 
So after theorymoning some weird shit I found out that Z Me First gives you +2 Speed, which is nice. Did some testing with it and if you attack first with Z Me First, you use the Z-move of w/e attack move your opponent is going to use and you get a x1.5 power boost on it, which sounds pretty damn good on paper.

I feel like this has some potential, but haven't come up with anything concrete; it's a really odd mechanic. Mew is probably the only Me First user worth using in UU, because in theory it should work well with NP / SD for a dual dance set on steroids.
Lucario could use Me First as well (I learned this from the X/Y cartridge) and works well with a NP/SD. However, Lucario is less bulky than Mew (but has more resistances).
Lucario @ Normalium Z
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Me First
On a related note, has anyone tried porygon 2 with z conversion (basically a weaker porygon-z in OU)? Or is that not good (fails to outspeed base 115 with a speed boosting nature and faster, even at +1).
Porygon2 @ Normalium Z
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt
-Recover/Ice Beam
-Conversion
 
Lucario could use Me First as well (I learned this from the X/Y cartridge) and works well with a NP/SD. However, Lucario is less bulky than Mew (but has more resistances).
Lucario @ Normalium Z
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Me First
On a related note, has anyone tried porygon 2 with z conversion (basically a weaker porygon-z in OU)? Or is that not good (fails to outspeed base 115 with a speed boosting nature and faster, even at +1).
Porygon2 @ Normalium Z
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt
-Recover/Ice Beam
-Conversion
I tried Porygon2 with Z-Conversion while messing around on an alt named "meme alt." I don't have any replays, but anyway it was too frail and slow for me- it mostly just got one-shotted by random fighting-types and coverage the opponent happened to have. So yeah, don't try it.
 
Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Hypnosis
- Encore

220 Speed which is a solid benchmark for this metagame (Primarina, Bewear, -1 Victini, defensive stuff like Suicune and Cress). I honestly think that the Toxic Rest set gives up way too much momentum, especially Rest which doesn't seem like it has enough opportunity to heal up and keep coming back in without constantly letting in dangerous stuff. Rain never has room to run a cleric either. With Hypnosis though, you can give an opportunity to stuff like LO Torn-T, Swift Swimmers, and other offensive stuff to get a free switch after putting something to sleep. Encore's fairly obvious and standard. Ice Beam lets Politoed chip at some stuff that could be annoying for Rain like Hydreigon and Whimsicott.


Gotta respectfully disagree with this point. Granted, I do think this set is good too, but perhaps geared more towards all-out-offense. Being able to surprise a Tini or Bewear seems pretty legit, I won't lie. In my personal experience, Toxic has been huge however for Water-Immune mons like Gastro and especially Volcanion who would just love for your Toed to come in and set rain otherwise. It also helps against faster mons that you can't simply outspeed and Encore if they try anything funny, such as Calm Mind Lati who could otherwise beat you 1v1. Since something like Dragonite or Salamance would be foolish to set up on you knowing that you could Encore, and they can both potentially KO that spread after one round of Rocks, having Ice Beam really boils down to the same thing as Encore+Toxic in these situations: Kill me or I'll mess you up. Popping Grass types on the switch though is dope, as well as the Dreigon you mentioned. Also even if Mence (Skystrike) and DNite (Skystrike/Band) probably kill you before the Beam, there's always the chance for a low roll which is really big in this case. Zydoge is of course worth mentioning too. Against the large majority of the meta however, Scald is just as well since in the rain it's almost identical in power to a 2x Super Effective Ice Beam.

The additional bulk also helps you avoid a few 2HKO's against attackers such as Sash Mamo and Scarf Diggersby, and force them out without significant risk to your Toed (though it's not pretty). Some other examples would be something like Cobalion which can pretty easily 2HKO your spread w/ 1 round of Rocks, Terrakion which can now 2HKO you regardless of rocks, Entei which will always 2HKO after rocks w/ Stone Edge, Hawlucha which 2HKOs after Rocks, and Scizor, which can pick you off with 2 Superpowers even accounting for the drop (though if it has Bug Bite this is kinda irrelevant). Victini will also fail to OHKO the max Def variant even with CB Bolt Strike which is nice if Toed happens to be your Physical Victini check.

The Rest thing is mainly useful when facing opposing (non-rain) Weather teams, so its utility is decided more on match-up than on any theorizing. The utility is more readily apparent in these Match-ups, where you may find yourself switching in to set Weather more frequently, if only so your opponent can't abuse their Breaker/Sweeper of choice. Even so, the ability to have a pseudo Status absorber/Scouting tool is appreciated in most matchups. It's a little passive, yea, but no more so than on any other mon, and all the same risks apply. Staying in to burn sleep turns is definitely not advised. You're likely only Resting once, so you can preserve the Weather for later. Its really not meant to function as anything but a Rain bot while asleep, coming in for one turn at max, and eventually sacked for one final set of Rain turns. I'd agree that doing anything else is just asking for that Dragonite to come in and start dancing up.

Personally though, my biggest gripe with calling this "the set" is the Hypnosis tbh. Hypnosis is just...not great. While getting a free switch 60% of the time is great, giving a free switch 40% of the time is not. Doubly so when you consider the kinds of things that Toed likes to draw in. Again, this is a personal thing, but I'd much rather Toxic that Serp on the switch than give it a free +2/Sub/Glare 40% of the time. On a team like yours where maintaining offensive pressure is key? I can see the gamble paying off for sure. On a team where you aren't pressured as much by every offensive threat? The utility of Hypnosis isn't so high anymore, and suddenly Toxic becomes really appealing by comparison.

TL;DR I think that spread looks good on your team but Bulky Toed is perfectly viable and has a great spot on more balanced builds.

252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Politoed: 160-189 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- 82% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
vs
252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 133-157 (34.7 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 169-199 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
vs
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Politoed: 204-241 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 145-172 (37.8 - 44.9%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
vs
252 Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Politoed: 175-207 (45.6 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 306-362 (79.8 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs
252 Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Politoed: 370-436 (96.6 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
 
Speaking of Rain, I've been running Seismitoad as a secondary sweeper and its been pretty good surprisingly enough. Being part Ground basically makes it poor man's Mega Swampert (Great offensively and defensively), and Sludge Wave is very useful coverage for Fairies and Grass-types. Its surprisingly strong and isn't THAT frail. The way it stacks weaknesses with Kabutops is kind of crummy, but its carried a lot of games for me despite that.

Azelf also has worked for me as a secondary rain setter, primarily for the role compression it provides with Rain Dance + Rocks, in addition to stuff like Taunt so I can beat other leads. (Also Explosion is cool to safely get in a sweeper)

(On a side note, has anyone tried other weathers? Considering all 4 of them are available to use right now it'd be very nice to experiment with)
 
Hail to the Kings
Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Psyshock
- Fire Blast
King #1. Use to absorb special attacks and some physical ones
Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Superpower
King #2. Use as a wallbreaker
Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Moonblast
- Freeze-Dry
Herald: Use aurora veil to support other team members
Sandslash-Alola @ Lum Berry
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Icicle Crash
Utilizes speed boost in hail to sweep. Adamant outspeeds max speed mega aerodactyl.
Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Superpower
CB scizor, the team's check to weavile, kyurem-black, etc. Also a good revenge killer.
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Protect
The Queen, uses wish to heal teammates and soaks up special attacks.
 
Hail to the Kings

Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Psyshock
- Fire Blast
King #1. Use to absorb special attacks and some physical ones
Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Superpower
King #2. Use as a wallbreaker
Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Moonblast
- Freeze-Dry
Herald: Use aurora veil to support other team members
Sandslash-Alola @ Lum Berry
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Icicle Crash
Utilizes speed boost in hail to sweep. Adamant outspeeds max speed mega aerodactyl.
Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Superpower
CB scizor, the team's check to weavile, kyurem-black, etc. Also a good revenge killer.
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Protect
The Queen, uses wish to heal teammates and soaks up special attacks.
[/HIDE]
That's more semi-hail than dedicated hail. Anyway, here's my own hail team:
Vanilluxe @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 148 HP / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Hidden Power Ground
- Toxic

The primary hail setter. Speed EVs creep dodmen's Politoed set so as to help the team avoid losing to rain 100% of the time.

Beartic @ Life Orb
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Used over Sandslash due to its superior raw power.

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Spirit Shackle
- Baton Pass

A Defogger was needed- one that resisted the electric-types so common on opposing weather. (e.g. thundurus and thundurus t on rain, and heliolisk on both rain and sun)

Volcanion @ Grassium Z
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Steam Eruption
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast

This thing is essentially the ultimate anti-fire machine in the whole metagame. Since the team is mostly ice-type and as such fears fire, Volcanion was a natural choice.

Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Blizzard

While Mamoswine is easily the better Stealth Rock setter (and a far, far, far, far better 'mon in general), Aurorus has snow warning, and is the only snow warning user that has access to Stealth Rock. If you want to use this team I'd seriously consider placing Mamoswine here, if you're a good enough player to keep Vanilluxe alive.

The last slot is a toss-up. Frankly I've tried both of these options, they work equally well and are both everything I'd hoped for, not to mention possibly the most important part of the team:

Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blizzard
- Draco Meteor
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
 
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That's more semi-hail than dedicated hail. Anyway, here's my own hail team:
Vanilluxe @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 148 HP / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Hidden Power Ground
- Toxic

The primary hail setter. Speed EVs creep dodmen's Politoed set so as to help the team avoid losing to rain 100% of the time.

Beartic @ Life Orb
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Used over Sandslash due to its superior raw power.

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Spirit Shackle
- Baton Pass

A Defogger was needed- one that resisted the electric-types so common on opposing weather. (e.g. thundurus and thundurus t on rain, and heliolisk on both rain and sun)

Volcanion @ Grassium Z
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Steam Eruption
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast

This thing is essentially the ultimate anti-fire machine in the whole metagame. Since the team is mostly ice-type and as such fears fire, Volcanion was a natural choice.

Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Blizzard

While Mamoswine is easily the better Stealth Rock setter (and a far, far, far, far better 'mon in general), Aurorus has snow warning, and is the only snow warning user that has access to Stealth Rock. If you want to use this team I'd seriously consider placing Mamoswine here, if you're a good enough player to keep Vanilluxe alive.

The last slot is a toss-up. Frankly I've tried both of these options, they work equally well and are both everything I'd hoped for, not to mention possibly the most important part of the team:

Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blizzard
- Draco Meteor
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
Excellent team. I prefer Kyurem regular for the last member because one physical move on kyurem black almost wastes its 170 base attack. Also, kyurem will probably stay in UU for longer than kyurem black (that might get banned within a couple months). So choose kyurem @ Choice Specs.
I also thought that I needed to use kings or emperors (Empoleon, Nidoking, Slowking). Nidoking and Slowking are trash now (use slowbro-mega or kyurem-black). I'll go change my team. I wonder if my team would actually work as-is.
 
That's more semi-hail than dedicated hail. Anyway, here's my own hail team:
Vanilluxe @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 148 HP / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Hidden Power Ground
- Toxic

The primary hail setter. Speed EVs creep dodmen's Politoed set so as to help the team avoid losing to rain 100% of the time.

Beartic @ Life Orb
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Used over Sandslash due to its superior raw power.

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Spirit Shackle
- Baton Pass

A Defogger was needed- one that resisted the electric-types so common on opposing weather. (e.g. thundurus and thundurus t on rain, and heliolisk on both rain and sun)

Volcanion @ Grassium Z
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Steam Eruption
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast

This thing is essentially the ultimate anti-fire machine in the whole metagame. Since the team is mostly ice-type and as such fears fire, Volcanion was a natural choice.

Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Blizzard

While Mamoswine is easily the better Stealth Rock setter (and a far, far, far, far better 'mon in general), Aurorus has snow warning, and is the only snow warning user that has access to Stealth Rock. If you want to use this team I'd seriously consider placing Mamoswine here, if you're a good enough player to keep Vanilluxe alive.

The last slot is a toss-up. Frankly I've tried both of these options, they work equally well and are both everything I'd hoped for, not to mention possibly the most important part of the team:

Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blizzard
- Draco Meteor
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
I've used a lot of hail so I'm curious why you're using Vanilluxe instead of Ninetales. It's a bit more powerful, but the loss of speed, secondary STAB and worse defensive typing seem like a poor trade-off to me (edit: also losing aurora veil). Beartic is interesting given it's really good power, but if you haven't tried Sandslash, I'd really recommend it. The steel typing is extremely valuable to avoid stacking weaknesses to rock and steel, and adding resistances to stuff like Dragon, Grass, Fairy and Normal (Dnite extremespeed) among several other types. The increase in speed actually makes a big difference as far as outspeeding certain scarf users and boosting sweepers (Adamant Beartic is outsped by +1 pokemon with positive-natured base 75 speed and above, while Jolly Sandslash outspeeds +1 base 100s. Jolly is best for Slash). Sandslash is a lot weaker, but with Swords Dance, you're breaking most things regardless, and Steel STAB is pretty nice. Volcanion looks like a really solid supporting member of the team since it deals with Fires and Steels well. Anyway, solid, interesting team!
 
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It was a pun on "hail." "Hail" to the king. Get it?
Good pun. I thought you needed "Kings" (Slowking, Nidoking, etc.) Emperor (empoleon) could also work.
For my team, I did some laddering and found out that the "kings" (Nidoking and Slowking) tended to be dead weight in most matches. Slowking was decent at checking Keldeo (resisted secret sword, has enough bulk to survive keldeo's other moves), but a hazard remover was sorely needed. I followed the example of "Hail to the TRUE king" and replace blissey with volcanion, slowking with decidueye, and nidoking with kyurem. Kyurem does everything nidoking does but better. Wonder if a similar team could work in RU alpha (assuming decidueye or dhelmise drops): vanilluxe, alolan sandslash,beartic, slowking, aurorus, dhelmise/decidueye. In fact, that team could work better there because hail (truth be told) isn't a good weather because the only gains are slush rush (both users of slush rush are rather slow outside of hail), snow cloak (a gimmick), ice body (too passive), and never-miss blizzards. I'll try sand/sun (rain seems to be the easiest weather to build with). Good work The Elder Dragon!
 
So I've been using Jirachi lately and it's hella good. I've been using Scarf because it suits my team, but just about any set will work. Gigalith is also a beast because fools love to use Zard-Y, but most y'all already knew that.

Qwilfish has been pretty good too. Great pokemon. Like a poor (very poor) mans Toxapex (or however you spell it). Intimidate, Spikes, Taunt, great typing and solid base speed so it can outspeed slower defensive pokemon. Also has self-heal in the form of Pain Split. Pairs well with a fine Chianti. I've been running

Qwilfish @ Black Sludge
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Taunt
- Haze
- Spikes
- Waterfall

I know intimidate and haze kind of makes no sense, but someone always tries to set up on intimidate and it also stops Belly Drummers from doing their thing. Pain Split could also work over Spikes if you don't need them. Waterfall for stab/damage/not taunt weak.
 
I've used a lot of hail so I'm curious why you're using Vanilluxe instead of Ninetales. It's a bit more powerful, but the loss of speed, secondary STAB and worse defensive typing seem like a poor trade-off to me (edit: also losing aurora veil). Beartic is interesting given it's really good power, but if you haven't tried Sandslash, I'd really recommend it. The steel typing is extremely valuable to avoid stacking weaknesses to rock and steel, and adding resistances to stuff like Dragon, Grass, Fairy and Normal (Dnite extremespeed) among several other types. The increase in speed actually makes a big difference as far as outspeeding certain scarf users and boosting sweepers (Adamant Beartic is outsped by +1 pokemon with positive-natured base 75 speed and above, while Jolly Sandslash outspeeds +1 base 100s. Jolly is best for Slash). Sandslash is a lot weaker, but with Swords Dance, you're breaking most things regardless, and Steel STAB is pretty nice. Volcanion looks like a really solid supporting member of the team since it deals with Fires and Steels well. Anyway, solid, interesting team!
I prefer Vanilluxe due to the simple fact it doesn't get OHKO'd by FatZor, whereas even with the usual "Fast Support" spread Ninetales is still wrecked by it. To be honest Volcanion isn't the most solid counter for scizor as a whole, due to its lack of recovery, so it's handy to be able to get that extra turn.
0 Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Vanilluxe: 186-222 (60.1 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ninetales-Alola: 412-492 (117.7 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Gigalith @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Facade
- Superpower
- Crunch
Lycanroc @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Brick Break
- Accelerock
Salamence @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Fly
- Outrage
Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Clear Smog
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Knock Off

Gigalith is to set the sand up. He has smooth rock for 8 turns of sand. Lycanroc and Stoutland are sand sweepers (Lycanroc is hobbled by poor coverage, though). Tornadus-Therian handles Charizard-y and Keldeo and also serves as a pivot. Amoonguss is a fairy/fighting/electric/water check, with regenerator for pivoting and clear smog to deter setup. Flyinium-Z Salamence is the last slot, capable of sweeping unprepared teams and z-fly breaks almost all grass types (which may trouble sand sweepers) at +1.
 
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Despite the rise of HO and stall, I've been finding success with an old-fashioned Bulky Offense team.

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Glare
- Leech Seed

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock

Primarina @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Energy Ball

Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Shadow Sneak
- Stone Edge
The team's built around Aerodactyl's ability to check any base 80 sweepers at +1, and being able to clean up late game. Arcanine checks Aerodactyl's biggest counters: steel types and ice shard. Serperior gives a more sturdy check to ground types as well as water types, and can support by paralyzing an offensive switch-in or seeding a defensive switch-in. Forretress gives me a way to counter other Aerodactyls, and has the same old function of hazard control and defensive pivoting. Primarina gives me immediate power on the special side - something Serperior can't do - and completes the fire/water/grass core. Muk is there as a gluemon, covering for my overall weakness to special attackers and as an answer to Charizard-Y.
 
Tornadus-T looks like dead weight there. Hurricane will be missing half the time in the sand, and the chip damage from sand in addition to Stealth Rock damage is not welcome. Otherwise, though, that looks really damn solid.
Tornadus-T's Hurricane has 70% accuracy (hurricane accuracy only drops to 50% in harsh sunlight). . You're right about Stealth rock being a problem. Would Defog Latias be better?
Probably the worst dead weight on Sands or Destruction or Hail to the Kings was Slowking (I already have Blissey as a special wall). Should I keep salamence or run kyurem black (with life orb)?
 

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Just your friendly neighborhood Brobat casually reminding guys that this isn't the RMT Forum guan123 The Elder Dragon Dracma127 !

Nothing wrong with posting teams in this thread, as several others have done it, but you don't wanna derail the main topic at hand, since the focus of this thread is discussion of UU Alpha first and foremost. Most other teams that have been posted here are confirmed to merit some notable degree of success on ladder, or at least be able to create/take advantage of some metagame trends in a large way, which is what would make them worthy of being posted here in the first place. Other than that you might wanna take it to PM or hit each other up on PS so the thread doesn't get cluttered with teambuilding suggestions.
 
Then which weather would be considered the best weather (the whole point of the teambuilding around hail and sand). Sun, rain, hail, or sand? I know all four weathers are usable, but which is the best? Mega Charizard Y is always annoying to deal with .

Anything to deal with z-happy hour jirachi? That rips apart teams.
 
With UU Alpha coming to a close, I decided to share my thoughts on the meta. It's been an interesting one, makes me think of what ORAS OU without Lando-T would look like. Notable threats including the likes of Weavile, Scizor, most Dragons, and Jirachi have been everywhere running all kinds of threatening sets creating quite the versatile meta. All in all I think Hyper Offense shined the most thanks to things like Mamoswine, Aero, and Azelf being available for lead rocks and powerhouses like the above mentioned threats along with Serperior, Keldeo, Staraptor, Azumarill, to rip through what little defensive backbone the tier has. Stall has been present but I don't think it's doing as well compared to the more offensive route as the offense matches up well against the defense right now.

I only built 2 teams during the month, one was a carefully thought out Bulky Offense/Balance team with LO Weavile, Magnet Pull Specs Magneton, AV Snorlax, Bulky Scizor, Defensive Starmie, and Scarf Thundy T... I got destroyed match after match...made a hyper offense team and peaked #1 with it during the first week or two and since then have been keeping around the top 30 with it. Even beat some notable people in the community with it including Key (would've won but internet crapped out on me), King UU, quiescent, and Umbra Soul. For someone who hadn't made too much of a name for himself before, UU Alpha has been an awesome experience and I can't wait for it to be finalized in the coming days.

Here's the team I've used and a SD Live I recorded with it:


http://pastebin.com/WBdAgpw4




http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuualpha-495589045
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuualpha-496613391
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuualpha-503642266
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuualpha-509657382


UU Peak.jpg
 
I'm legit curious about something, is drizzle and drought really that OP anymore? There are so many threats that just don't give two gosh darns about rain or sun teams, not to mention we have fantastic hail and sand users in ninetales-alola and gigalith that can shift the weather around out of their favor. I have tried a good amount of these sun and rain teams posted here on ladder, as well as, using some of my own and can confirm that they are not broken in the slightest. Mega Zard Y is just broken as you all already know. I feel like we should test drought and drizzle after alpha to see if they really are borked. I could be wrong though considering the massive ORAS OU threats we have here might be screwing with how I'm viewing drizzle and drought (by the way, I do know most of the ORAS OU mons will get banned). I am just saying though, this isn't gen 5 anymore, we don't have to worry about rain and sun teams getting out of hand considering how they are forced into obvious plays, the weather doesn't last forever (only 5-8 turns), and hail/sand teams are even better sometimes anyways with the buffs they received this gen (mainly just hail getting aurora veil and slush rush mons, plus, sand getting the bulky powerful gigalith to set the weather instead of hippopatas).
I really would like other players' opinions on this, especially those that are veterans from Gen 5. Thanks in advance.
 
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