Throh [QC 1/3]

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PrinceLucian

Banned deucer.


  • Throh is a pretty unique pokemon with fairly impressive bulk which allows it to pivot into weaker special attackers during match.
  • Throh is often compared to his fellow bulky fighting types like Hariyama which is usually a better tank due to thick fat and higher attack base, Gurdurr which is often easier to fit on teams due to being a wincond and the stab priority it brings, and while Throh is outclassed as an offensive tank, its niche lies in signature move Circle Throw, which allows it to play differently than other fighting types.
  • While Throh can pivot into special attackers earlier in match, it mostly shines late game after opposing team is weakened, hence its a good fit on spikes teams where it can shuffle opposing team which, with hazard damage and defense boosts makes Throh hard to take down.
  • It also has useful ability in Guts which allows it to boost its attack stat to decent levels when statused, making it a decent status or scald absorber for teams.
  • Not everything shines for Throh, since its hard to utilize its potential without spikes support, and ghost types like Rotom, Mismagius completely stops set variation lacking Knock off, and if it decides to run Knock off instead of a boosting move, its initial power is only subpar.
  • While Throh has impressive 120/85/85 bulk, its typing doesnt offer any useful resistances, so teams will almost always require a secondary check to special attackers like Charizard, Mesprit which can easily force it out.

[SET]
Name: Circle Throh
move 1: Circle Throw
move 2: Rest
move 3: Sleep Talk
move 4: Bulk Up/Knock Off
item: Leftovers
ability: Guts
nature: Careful
evs:252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Circle Throw is Throh signature STAB move, which coupled with entry hazards allows Throh to phase opposing Pokemon, forcing them to take more damage every time and potentially stop weaker setup sweepers from boosting.
  • Rest is Throh's only way of recovery, and gives it longevity during match.
  • Sleep Talk allows it to either boost, phase or remove opponents item depending on the last chosen move. Moves selected by Sleep Talk will get the Guts boost.
  • Bulk Up boosts Throh's attack and defense to scary levels and automatically makes it hard to take down.
  • Knock off allows Throh to hit Ghost types which would otherwise wall it, it hits Psychic types and is overall useful for removing opponents items early game.

Set Details
========

  • Maximum HP and Special defense investment with Careful nature allows Throh to make most of its special bulk, and allows it to setup on weaker special sweepers or phase them out.
  • Guts is preffered ability, since it boosts Throh attack when its statused, and pairs well with Rest as only way to restore its health.

Usage Tips
========

  • Use Throh to pivot into special attackers earlier in match, force them out or remove their item with Knock Off.
  • Throh functions best later game, after its checks and counters like psychic, poison types are removed or severaly weakened, as setting up early game will almost always result in Throh being revenge killed.
  • Ghost types completely stop Throh if it doesnt have Knock Off, so it should not setup before they are eliminated.
  • Despite Guts ability being useful and boosting Throh attack stat, longevity is important for Throh and it should use Rest whenever its weakened.
  • After Throh sets up, its usually hard to stop due to its high overall bulk, so Circle Throw will be used mostly due to ability to phase opponent without difficulties and proceed to sweep late game.

Team Options
========

  • Pursuit trappers like Skuntank and Liepard are one of the best partners for Throh, as not only they eliminate ghost types that stop Throh from sweeping, but can also deal with Psychic types that threaten Throh.
  • Spikes support is very appreciated when using Throh, so Pokemon like Garbodor, Omastar, Ferroseed, Roselia are good setters to make its sweep easier, while spinblockers like Rotom, Gourgeist, Mismagius help with keeping hazards on field.
  • Stealth rock users like Rhydon, Steelix, Piloswine are good way to deal with flying types like Scyther and Archeops that force Throh out, while special Steelix can lure and help with weakening Pokemon like Weezing, Rotom that Throh struggles with.
  • Offensive partners like Shiftry, Pinsir, Kangaskhan, Mesprit, Samurott that share similar checks with Throh and fit well on hazard teams are great partners for Throh.
  • Bulky Psychic types like Mesprit can be versatile partner due to the variety of sets it can run, Xatu can act as a soft hazard control, and Musharna beats most of the Psychic types for Throh, while all three resist Psychic moves and can potentially pivot out into Pursuit trappers or Spike setters.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options

  • Throh doesnt really have many other options, as its main niche is being able to phase opponent with Circle Throw. Offensive Bulk Up set with Guts and 3 attacks is viable, since Zen headbutt can deal decent damage and lure pokemon like Vileplume, Weezing, Garbodor, Knock Off with maximum attack investment hits Psychic types and Ghost harder while it could run Stone Edge to aim Scyther, but Gurdurr is usually a better choice due to a better physical bulk and access to priority Mach Punch.
  • Choice Band set with Guts turns Throh into strong wallbreaker and a Ghost lure, but its mostly outclassed by Hariyama which has higher base attack and access to Close Combat, while being able to pick faster pokemon like Archeops, Jynx with priority Bullet Punch.

Checks and Counters
===================



Checks and Counters
===================
**Psychic Types**: Mesprit, Musharna, Jynx, Xatu can threaten out Throh with Psychic stab, while being able to switch in safely due to their natural bulk and proceed to setup up with Calm Mind or pivot out, while Mesprit can threaten it out with most of it sets. Keep in mind that defensive Mesprit with Psyshock cannot deal with Throh after few boosts, so its best to attack it right away, or pivot out into strong wallbreaker.
**Flying Types**: like Scyther, Charizard, Vivillon threaten Throh with its flying stab, they can either weaken it or try to setup freely, since they both resist fighting X4, but should be careful of Knock Off. Archeops can beat it 1v1, but cant reliable switchin, since its bulk is rather mediocre. SD bulky Charizard is uncommon, but its a safe switchin to Throh and can setup and beat it 1v1.
**Poison Types**: like Weezing, Garbodor, and Vileplume with Worry Seed. Fast taunt Weezing is a decent answer to Throh, since it can stop it from getting boosts and weaken with Sludge Bomb. Garbodor with Rocky Helmet and Aftermath can potentially lose 1v1 vs Throh, but in the process it can setup spikes and revenge kill Throh with another wallbreaker, while Vileplume with Worry Seed stops it from using Rest.
**Ghost Types**: like Rotom, Mismagius, Gourgeist can completely shut down Throh lacking knock off, while Gourgeist beats all variations with Leech Seed, and Haunter can lure it with destiny bond.
 
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erisia

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When you talk about Throh's bulk in the overview, mention that Thick Fat Hariyama's extra resistances generally make it more useful in a specially-defensive role, and Gurdurr is a more generally useful Fighting-type wincon due to its STAB priority and Drain Punch. Also mention that Throh's special bulk + Guts + Rest Talk makes it a pretty good Scald absorber for a team. The last sentence is also unnecessary since most Fighting-types only have Drain Punch for recovery (if that!) so I'd just remove it imo.

No custom set names, especially not memes. :p

You should mention somewhere in Moves or Usage Tips that attacking moves selected by Sleep Talk will get the Guts boost (which is a big part of what makes this set good). This means you can be pretty liberal with using Rest early on to get the Guts boost while you're boosting up if the opponent doesn't try to status you and you can tank the hits.

In set details maybe mention some specific 3HKOs that Throh avoids/mitigates with the SpD investment, such as Swellow's Boomburst (50% chance to 3HKO after Lefties), defensive Xatu's Psychic, and Haunter's Sludge Bomb. This lets Throh set up on these foes indefinitely (unless they get a crit of course). You also need to mention that Leftovers is the item of choice so that Throh can heal passively as it boosts and potentially capitalise on the switches it forces with Circle Throw.

Sub Malamar seems like a very specific team option when you have so many others listed. I'd probably just remove it to be concise.

In other options, you could also mention that the Bulk Up + 3 Attacks set can use Stone Edge to lure Scyther, which usually can't KO Throh effectively due to its much better Defense than Hariyama. Is Mold Breaker Earthquake also worth mentioning somewhere?
 
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erisia

Innovative new design!
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I can see you've implemented some of this but not all of it. I can't think of anything else so QC 1/3 when you've done this (please post when you're done).

Oh and the set name could just be Circle Throw unless anyone objects. That's why you're using this mon in the first place anyways.
 
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PrinceLucian

Banned deucer.
implemented most,except the specific 3 koes, because haunter completely stops throh without knock off so its kinda situational, while Xatu can potentially setup on it with CM and being on throhs check list isnt rly worth it
 

Punchshroom

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Choice Band set with Guts turns Throh into strong wallbreaker and a Ghost lure, but its mostly outclassed by Hariyama which has higher base attack and access to Close Combat, while being able to pick faster pokemon like Archeops, Jynx with priority Bullet Punch.
You might want to bring up Guts and Zen Headbutt as niches Throh has at the very least, as it lets it take on any bulky Poison-type.
 

erisia

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Agreed, being able to lure in Vileplume with Zen Headbutt is quite nice. QC 1/3 once this is implemented.
 
Overview:
Throh is a pretty unique pokemon with fairly impressive bulk which allows it to pivot into weaker special attackers during match.
Just list a few 'weaker' special attackers / attacks. New users will find this helpful.
While Throh has impressive 120/85/85 bulk, its typing doesnt offer any useful resistances, so teams will almost always require a secondary check to special attackers like Charizard, Mesprit which can easily force it out.
This definitely needs to be changed, saying its typing doesn't offer any useful resistances is really wrong. Resisting common moves like Knock Off, U-turn and Stone Edge (even stealth rock) is really nice. Mono fighting typing might not be the best, but it certainly has its benefits.

Moves
Knock off allows Throh to hit Ghost types which would otherwise wall it, it hits Psychic types and is overall useful for removing opponents items early game.
List a few ghost or psychic type pokes, again, lots of newer users read the dex.

Usage Tips
Despite Guts ability being useful and boosting Throh attack stat, longevity is important for Throh and it should use Rest whenever its weakened.
This is confusing. The use of despite makes it seem like one of these should be a negative but they are both positives? Just change it to something like "Use Rest whenever throh is at low HP, but one must beware of mindlessly clicking Rest as it forces Throh to rely on Sleep Talk, which is rather unreliable. Throh also receives an attack boost by virtue of Guts when it uses Rest, which is always beneficial."

2/3 when implemented.
 
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