Ladder Tier Shift ORAS (Swift Swim Banned)

[Kingslayer2779]

I was on the council and voted Ban Drizzle. Why ban Drizzle? My reasoning comes from my experience with Trick Room teams. TR teams are forced to manually set up and only have 5 turns. Its a huge pain in the ass and severely limits the viability of these teams. A Drizzle ban forces Rain teams to manually set up with pokemon such as Klefki, Thundurus, and Tornadus. While these pokemon have Prankster, they are generally much frailer then Politoed. With good prediction, it is easy to put pressure on the setter. Also UU has already banned Drizzle, so its a logical starting point for an OM based Tier system as a whole. Even if a Drizzle ban was later decided to not be enough to nerf Rain, we could have retested the Strategy and banned Damp Rock or Swift Swim later. In my opinion, a Swift Swim ban is overhanded and completely kills the viabilty of Rain offense. Sure some Pokemon benefit from Rain, but the opperturnity cost of running them all on one team is massive. Swift Swim teams already have type synergy issues and huge matchup problems. Running multiple Water types obviously creates a team that is weak to Electric types and Grass types, unless you have enough dual types. This was often a problem for regular Rain teams, but Swift Swim at least gave them a tremendous match up advantage against Offense teams. Without Swift Swim there is only mediocre benefits to running a Rain based teams, therefore killing the playstyle's viability.

Edit: As for Mega Swampert and SS, the council agreed that Mega Swampert should be an exception.

 

[Deathly ♛The King]

I was the other person who voted drizzle ban. I believe it is better to have the playstyle retain some viability and risk not nerfing it enough than immediately ruining any chance that rain might be usable. If it had been banned and was still viewed as overpowered, we could quickly change the ban to something more extreme.

I suck at typing on my kindle, so I kept it as short as I could.

 

[Adrian Marin]

I was the other person who voted drizzle ban. I believe it is better to have the playstyle retain some viability and risk not nerfing it enough than immediately ruining any chance that rain might be usable. If it had been banned and was still viewed as overpowered, we could quickly change the ban to something more extreme.

I suck at typing on my kindle, so I kept it as short as I could.

I have to disagree.

Rain offense still has some level of viability. Pokemon such as Tornadus-T and Mega Swampert greatly benefit from the rain and make using Drizzle Politoed worth-while. I don't understand how banning Swift Swim made rain offense "unviable" as many like to call it, since it's completely false.

 

[Deathly ♛The King]

Adrian Marin
Without Swift Swim, there is very little reason to use it over Sun, Sand, or even just normal offense. Sun has multiple options for their Chlorophyll sweepers, which is the main reason it does so well against offense. On the other hand, Rain lost all of their Swift Swimmers except Mega Swampert, which has to take a turn to Mega Evolve. It may even be possible that it won't have time to Mega Evolve before either it or Politoed faints. Rain also lost the great coverage that Ludicolo and Kabutops offered, as they were able to take out Pokemon that otherwise would wall Rain teams, and they forced teams to run really odd counters and checks such as full HP Toxicroak.

The quote below this is also true.

In my opinion, a Swift Swim ban is overhanded and completely kills the viabilty of Rain offense. Sure some Pokemon benefit from Rain, but the opperturnity cost of running them all on one team is massive. Swift Swim teams already have type synergy issues and huge matchup problems. Running multiple Water types obviously creates a team that is weak to Electric types and Grass types, unless you have enough dual types. This was often a problem for regular Rain teams, but Swift Swim at least gave them a tremendous match up advantage against Offense teams. Without Swift Swim there is only mediocre benefits to running a Rain based teams, therefore killing the playstyle's viability.

Regardless, it might be a bit extreme to call it completely unviable, as it does have niches. However, it isn't exceptionally good and doesn't warrant a lot of use over other playstyles.

 

[Adrian Marin]

Adrian Marin
Without Swift Swim, there is very little reason to use it over Sun, Sand, or even just normal offense. Sun has multiple options for their Chlorophyll sweepers, which is the main reason it does so well against offense. On the other hand, Rain lost all of their Swift Swimmers except Mega Swampert, which has to take a turn to Mega Evolve. It may even be possible that it won't have time to Mega Evolve before either it or Politoed faints. Rain also lost the great coverage that Ludicolo and Kabutops offered, as they were able to take out Pokemon that otherwise would wall Rain teams, and they forced teams to run really odd counters and checks such as full HP Toxicroak.

The quote below this is also true.



Regardless, it might be a bit extreme to call it completely unviable, as it does have niches. However, it isn't exceptionally good and doesn't warrant a lot of use over other playstyles.

The only reason why I was arguing was because everyone was calling it "unviable," which is very extreme, just as you said. Rain is still a decent playstyle, however, and shouldn't be discredited.

 

[Kingslayer2779]

I have to disagree.

Rain offense still has some level of viability. Pokemon such as Tornadus-T and Mega Swampert greatly benefit from the rain and make using Drizzle Politoed worth-while. I don't understand how banning Swift Swim made rain offense "unviable" as many like to call it, since it's completely false.

Running a Rain "core" of Politoed+Keldeo or Politoed and a Thunder/Hurricane attacker is of course still viable. But can a full a Rain team be highly successful without swift swim? I doubt it. If there was a playstyle viability rankings, rain would get a C- or D from me. So is it totally unviable? Not really, but it has too much going against it to be great ever again.

 

[Funbot28]

Did this meta die or something? So much has changed after the August Shifts...

 

[Arcueid]

confirming, most of my teams are left in the dust, especially after me deleting my useless teams.

 

[Kingslayer2779]

Did TS die? I would say no, but its on life support and its in the danger zone for losing its ladder. And the August shifts hasn't really made a huge impact on the meta. Hitmonchan is still pretty much outclassed, and several of the tier changes were things moving out of borderlines. Goth dropping would be a big deal if we hadn't already banned Shadow Tag. Venomoth is also pretty bad considering it can't pass and its really not capable of a sweep. Stall still seems powerful, at least until you remember Hoopa-u exists. The best playstyle right now is probably Sun Offense, due to its powerful Chlorophyll sweepers.

 

[leng loi]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Sun Offense is the best playstyle, but it is definitely really, really good. Victreebel and Sawsbuck can dismantle offense if played correctly, while balance and stall have only about ~3 counters to sun boosted mega houndoom. Somethng I've played with is using Dugtrio on sun to eliminate Flareon. Sun doesn't actually have much to beat AV Hariyama besides like Victini or Talonflame.

 

[thesecondbest]

Yeah, the last time I played TS it was a room tour. I ended up winning after using stall until the finals, when I pulled out a Peef team and barely beat out a sun team. Sun offense is scary good right now, but there are ways to beat it. You can theoretically make a weatherless offense team, so the meta seems in a pretty good spot.

 

[Deathly ♛The King]

FishInABox and I have worked on this for a long time now, but its finally finished.
TIER SHIFT SPEED TIERS!

 

[insanelegend]

FishInABox and I have worked on this for a long time now, but its finally finished.
TIER SHIFT SPEED TIERS!

Thank you so much! I will add this to the OP.

 

[Kingslayer2779]

Thank you so much! I will add this to the OP.

Speaking of the Op, its incredibly dated. One part talks about smashpassing from Gorebyss, and mentions Celebi, Mew, and Victini getting UU boosts >.<

You also don't have Greninja and Lando-I listed in the Ou bans sections.

 

[Funbot28]

This thread should just get a total revamp. Same as VR who needs an update,..

 

[leng loi]

In response to Eevee General 's call for more cultivation and less creation in Other Metagames, we've noticed that for a metagame with a ladder, Tier Shift gets very little discussion. A small team including me will be writing analyses of the way things work in Tier Shift every other day. We hope that these act as a sort of discussion prompt for the community to take a hold of and cultivate the meta with their ideas and their opinions. Assisting me in my efforts are; Deathly ♛The King , Dream Eater Gengar , insanelegend , jeran , Kingslayer2779 , and Snaquaza .

Starting us off for our first topic, I will be talking about Walls and Wallbreakers in Tier Shift.

Walls and Wallbreakers

in Tier Shift
​

A side-effect of lower tiered mons have ALL of their stats increased by a uniform rule is that they gain a lot more bulk than they do power. This leads to a metagame where bulky offense and stall are two of the strongest playstyles. It is important to know however, that even on a perfect stall team, where every relevant wallbreaker is checked, there are chinks in the armor. Finding the less well known wallbreakers, where the opponent only has 1 answer, in the case of a stall team, or a very shaky check on a balance team, pressures the same few pokemon to be forced in. Knowing how stall is built is an important aspect in knowing how to break it. First off, there are a few things that stall should always have an answer to.

Houndoom-Mega @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse / Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Solar Beam

Under sun, not even Chansey can stomach powerful hits from this monster at +2. This means that stall has only 2 defensive answers for it.

+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 490-577 (76.3 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 112+ SpD Flareon in Sun: 319-376 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 112+ SpD Flareon in Sun: 160-189 (44 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
148 Atk Flareon Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Houndoom: 266-314 (85.5 - 100.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama in Sun: 306-360 (66.6 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama in Sun: 153-181 (33.3 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Houndoom: 440-522 (141.4 - 167.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So, what we learn from Houndoom is that strong offensive presence on an otherwise defensive mon can often be important. We also learn that strictly offensive mons are incredibly useful in checking huge threats to defensive cores.

I now leave you with two exercises, one to introduce the idea of semistall cores, and one to reinforce the idea of wallbreakers.

Here is a common stall core, both of these mons are blanket counters to a large amount of offensive mons, but they share some common weaknesses. Neither can fully deal with Mega Houndoom under sun, both struggle with LO Hydreigon (Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, Iron Tail, Super Power), both are threatened by Mega Lopunny, and both fall to Guts Ursaring. What offensive mon would you use? Keep in mind that even defensive mons should have some degree of defensive synergy. Also keep in mind that semistall relies on making aggressive plays to get attackers in on wallbreaking threats and making the safe play the majority of the time to whittle the opponents team.

Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Wood Hammer
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

Now here is a wallbreaker with unexplored potential. What Pokemon (1, 2, or even 3) would you pair Abomasnow with to put added stress on its switchins and assist in wearing down the opposing team?

 

[Deathly ♛The King]

Honestly nothing immediately pops out to me as an optimal semistall partner for Chansey and Mega Sableye, but I have the second one done so I'll just post that. Maybe I'll come up with an idea for the first later.

The partner I decided on for Mega Abomasnow was Talonflame.

Set

Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Swords Dance
- Taunt

Talonflame and Abomasnow-Mega form a great offensive core with a huge advantage over stall. Mega Abomasnow is capable of taking out bulky Water types such as Alomomola, Ground types such as Garchomp and Quagsire, Electric types such as Electabuzz, and Rock types such as Rhydon for Talonflame. In return, Talonflame takes out Fighting types and Bug types for Abomasnow, while stallbreaking with taunt. Both of them can act as win conditions, and can hold their own against offense teams as well due to their high power moves and priority, or, in Mega Abomasnow's case, raw power. However, they are both very weak to Stealth Rock, and desperately need hazard removal. A good partner could be Starmie, who can use its STAB Water Type attacks to beat Fire types for Abomasnow.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Hey guys, I don't play much Tier Shift but I found a neat check to MegaDoom: Hydreigon. It resists all the attacks on the set posted, and can do enough damage back with Superpower to make sure MegaDoom is dead after the Superpower+one turn in Sun (due to Solar Power recoil).

Hydreigon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Lonely Nature
- Superpower
- U-Turn
- Iron Tail
- Draco Meteor

Or other filler moves or another nature (as long as it is +Atk and not -SpD), you can really do whatever you want with it, as long as it has Superpower, AV, and the given EVs.

Calcs:
+2 252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Hydreigon in Sun: 302-356 (76 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Hydreigon in Sun: 302-356 (76 - 89.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Hydreigon Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Houndoom: 268-316 (89 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

It lives a +2 Fire Blast in Sun, and retaliates with Superpower, doing over 87.5%, meaning MegaDoom dies due to Solar Power's recoil.

It probably isn't the best mon, but it is a neat check to MegaDoom that gives the semi-stall core a little offensive presence and kills one of its biggest threats. It does lose to the other threats though RIP.

 

[Akumeoy]

Here is a common stall core, both of these mons are blanket counters to a large amount of offensive mons, but they share some common weaknesses. Neither can fully deal with Mega Houndoom under sun, both struggle with LO Hydreigon (Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, Iron Tail, Super Power), both are threatened by Mega Lopunny, and both fall to Guts Ursaring. What offensive mon would you use? Keep in mind that even defensive mons should have some degree of defensive synergy. Also keep in mind that semistall relies on making aggressive plays to get attackers in on wallbreaking threats and making the safe play the majority of the time to whittle the opponents team.

The obvious route -- finding something that can outspeed all of these threats and KO them -- produces Swellow, which hits 140 base speed after its tier shift.

Swellow @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Brave Bird
- U-Turn
- Quick Attack/Protect

252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Houndoom: 298-352 (99 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lopunny: 301-355 (111 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 298-352 (88.9 - 105%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ursaring: 312-367 (88.6 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Of course, Swellow is made of paper, so this isn't ideal -- if it can't switch in, it can't really shore up the core. How about something that can tank one of these attacks on the switch-in? It seems like everything save Houndoom will rely on a Fighting-type attack to stop Chansey, so it seems that something that can take one of those would be ideal. Here's an option.

Togekiss @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Aura Sphere
- Fire Blast / Trick

Togekiss can easily switch in on predicted Fighting-type attacks (and some other attacks, like Hydreigon's Draco Meteor or Houndoom's Dark Pulse) and either flinch the opposing attacker to death or KO it with a coverage move. The Scarf gives a chance that naturally faster attackers don't just switch out on you. In exchange for taking out threats to the core, Chansey can spread paralysis for Togekiss while Mega Sableye helps control hazards.

Togekiss can't switch in on Houndoom's Fire Blast without becoming a fried chicken, though, so I might update this post with something that can. Nothing comes to mind at the moment, though.

 

[Deathly ♛The King]

And now we're onto our second discussion, where I will be talking about low tier sweepers in Tier Shift.

Low Tier Sweepers in TS

​

When you are using low tier sweepers in Tier Shift, there are three things to keep in mind. The first one is the increased bulkiness of the metagame. Turning a 2HKO into a 3HKO could easily mean the end of a sweep. The second thing to keep in mind is typing. If you're using a set up sweeper, you most certainly don't want it to be easily revenge killed. Pokemon such as Talonflame don't exist in NU, and more low tier sweepers are weak to it than higher tier sweepers. The third, and in my opinion the most important thing to keep in mind, is offensive coverage. A Pokemon in NU might have good enough coverage to beat NU walls and threats, but there is a much broader range of threats, and, due to that, types in Tier Shift. Due to these factors, many Pokemon that are viable in their respective tiers just don't preform as well in Tier Shift, and often require a lot of support.

​

Lets take Lilligant for example. It is A+ in NU viability rankings, so it is quite good in its respective tier.
Everything is Bulkier: Lilligant vs Klinklang: Before the TS boosts, Lilligant can 2hko it with just a bit of prior damage. However, after the TS boosts, it can only 3hko it. This is a huge difference, as it means that Lilligant loses 1v1 even if Klinklang has a bit of prior damage (assuming it runs the same set.)

Calcs

Before: 252 SpA Lilligant Hidden Power Fire vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 136-160 (46.1 - 54.2%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
After: 252 SpA Lilligant Hidden Power Fire vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 128-152 (39.3 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Before: 252 SpA Lilligant Hidden Power Fire vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 136-160 (46.1 - 54.2%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
After: 252 SpA Lilligant Hidden Power Fire vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 128-152 (39.3 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery

Typing: Its typing isn't so great either. It is easily revenge killed by Talonflame, and a lot of things that can take a hit have something to hit Grass types hard, such as Heatran.
Coverage: Coverage is where Lilligant's main problem resides. Due to having a total of two moveslots to dedicate to attacks and having to pick between Hidden Power Fire, Hidden Power Ice, Hidden Power Rock, and Hidden Power Flying isn't so great. This leaves Lilligant walled by Pokemon such as Heatran.

Lilligant definitely loses a lot of viability in the transition from NU to an OU based metagame, just based on looking at these factors. It is still viable, and has some traits that are coveted (such as Quiver Dance and Healing Wish), but it is nowhere near worthy of A+ in Tier Shift.

Just because a Pokemon is great in their tier doesn't mean they are great in Tier Shift. What are some other low tier sweepers that lose a lot of viability in Tier Shift and why? Alternatively, what are some low tier sweepers that don't go down much or even go up in viability, and what do you think is the reason for this?​

 

[LightningLord2]

I'm going to make a prediction and say Aerodactyl will struggle to make an impact - its increased speed means little as it already outruns everything but Ninjask as a Mega, only changing in that Accelgor and Electrode now speed tie with it. Furthermore, many NU/RU defensive threats will have an easy time walling it as Aero is held back by lack of a proper STAB to abuse Tough Claws with. It's also somewhat frail and weak to several priority moves.

 

[Dr. Phd. BJ]

I would first like to apologize to FishInABox for this post being so delayed. But anyways, I am here to post about something just about every player loves / hates with a passion, STALL. I am going to go over some pokes and their role(s) on stall and how they impact the meta. Keep in mind, not all of these pokes will be on every stall team.

Chansey (or Blissey):Chansey's (or whichever of the 2 you prefer) role on stall is very simple. Wall basically every special attacker, and spread status, and be a consistent cleric that can absorb status. Chansey sits there and walls special attackers, and paired with pokes like Mega-Sableye and Skarmory, they can single handedly wall entire teams. Without Chansey, stall doesn't have stuff for overpowering special attackers, such as Mega-Camerupt, any form of Kyurem, Latios, Charizard-Y, and others. If you don't have a good physical attacker, this thing will be a nightmare.

Mega-Sableye: Mega-Sableye has a major purpose on stall teams, keeping away hazards, and bouncing back taunt from normal, "Stallbreakers." Mega-Sableye has sky-high defensive stats and walls most stealth rock users. It also spreads status such as Will-o-Wisp to cripple physical attackers, making Chansey that much harder to break. Mega-Sableye is also one of the best answers to fighting types, if not the best, in the metagame. If you have no fairy coverage, this thing can be an issue.Sadly, my computer is being bad, and i can't c/p pictures. But anyways...Quagsire / Clefable:Really simple, Unaware users that make it so you don't auto-lose to sweepers. Some prefer Clefable, while most prefer Quagsire.Alomomola: Fat fish that can't get OHKO'd and abuses the best move in the game, scald and spreads toxic. Always watch out for mirror coat just in case. Shedinja: It is a very situational poke to use on stall, but can fill weaknesses on stall, such as Mega Altaria, Specs / Sub CM Keldeo, and some others. With the HP boost, it doesn't just die to stealth rock / spike.Gligar:The last poke I will go over is Gligar. Walls lots of physical attackers, and usually the most reliable defog user on stall. Always pack an efficient Wallbreaker and Stallbreaker. Pokes such as mixed Hydreigon, Hoopa-U, Crawdaunt and semi-fast Taunt users are the best ways to beat stall.

 

[leng loi]

I would like to bring up another point about shedinja stall. In addition to Keldeo and Physical Altaria (BJ's examples) it beats Manaphy not carrying HP Fire. It requires support, but not nearly as much in as in OU. Food for thought.

 

[FOZ369]

Mega Gardevoir is also a good stallbreaker. Hoopa-U is better though. The only real problem they share is their speed stats. Against stall, i think its an automatic win if you have a Mega Gardevoir (modest nature with 252 Sp.Atk EVs) behind a substitute with hypervoice/psyshock/shadowball for coverage (unless they have a bold or impish Chansey with 252 HP EVs and 252 Def EVs) or if you have a Hoopa-U (modest nature with 252 Sp.Atk EVs) behind a substitute with psyshock/darkpulse/focusblast for coverage (considering you won't miss with focus blast when needed to).

Against any team though, if these 2 pokemon successfully set up a substitute, they will be guaranteed to get at the least one kill (except for Hoopa-U IF they have Drapion/Skuntank with decent investment into HP and Sp.Def).

 

[FOZ369]

Also... I'm sure more than a few people have wondered what Tier Shift would be like if Ubers were added in to the mix. Where Uber's stats would stay the same while OU/BL get +5 UU/BL2 get +10, RU/BL3 get +15, and NU or lower get +20 to each of their stats. Unlike in generation 5 where Ubers was just a banlist, in generation 6, Ubers is now a tier itself, which would make it a somewhat reasonable decision to add Ubers into Tier Shift.

I think it would freshen up this metagame a lot. Even though I got into Tier Shift recently and I like it as it is, it does seem a little stale. For a permanent ladder, not that many players play it. A lot of people say that its too stally (and I kinda agree with that statement too), but I know that its not because stall is OP in Tier Shift. In my opinion, stall is currently the best playstyle in Tier Shift, but there are answers to it, seeing as the top 2 players on the Tier Shift ladder currently (VERLISIFYVERLISIFY and Efsile) use balance teams. I'd say that unless you are very good at teambuilding or if you use cookie-cutter wallbreakers like Hoopa-U and Mega Gardevoir (I do that) you CANNOT beat stall.

With the introduction of Ubers into this metagame you'll get many wall-breakers and Pokemon with versatile movesets. So basically you can get new Pokemon that deal with stall, and you can get new Pokemon that deal with wallbreakers, like Groudon and and Ho-Oh for Mega Gardevoir (I don't know what Uber Pokemon can deal with Hoopa-U well).

I feel like if Ubers were introduced into Tier Shift, then we would have a more balanced metagame here. Stall Pokemon would also stay on par with their competition currently, but they would just have a lot more threats to deal with. I feel as though a lot more people would feel inclined to play Tier Shift if they heard a change as drastic as this was implemented. I also don't believe the metagame would be centralised on the Uber Pokemon in it. And I think Tier Shift already does have the most amount of viable Pokemon you can use when compared to other metas, but this would expand that amount by a lot.

Could this whole idea not be a possibility because it isn't traditional for an OM to be Ubers-based? Or could there a better reason not to go with it?