Torrential Downpour - The Resurgence of Rain

MattL

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Overview

Recently, rain has been forced to be a sub-archetype of offense. The removal of permanent weather caused it to become a niche style that, while sometimes very effective, was a bit more matchup based and less consistent. The temporary weather also causes defensive rain builds to be ineffective. After the comprehensive Gen 7 info leak, we saw that rain received a great buff: U-turn.

Although Politoed has rain-boosted Scald and Encore, it's tends to kill the player's momentum, which is detrimental for offensive teams. You have to either stay in and waste precious rain turns or switch and risk one of your other mons. Obviously, part of playing offense well is knowing when to make smart doubles in order to minimize risk, but the initiative gained from U-turn, especially a slower one, is a huge boon.

Sample Team

Under the assumption that the Pokemon banned in ORAS will continue to be banned, along with Lunala, Solgaleo, and Phermosa, below is a sample rain build taking into account what we know so far about Gen 7. Some of the previously banned Pokemon, such as Genesect, might not be banned in Gen 7, allowing more opportunities to improve rain builds, but at this point it's impossible to say what the meta will exactly be like. Despite being rather one-dimensional, Gen 7 rain has lots of options, one of which is showcased below:

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 200 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Roost

Being the only weather setter so far with a momentum-gaining move (that doesn't kill yourself - i.e. Gigalith Explosion) is a wonderful distinction. Defog is potentially an option. It's counterproductive for offensive teams due to Stealth Rock assisting in scoring KOs, but Pelipper is weak to Rocks and the team as a while (barring Torn to an extent), gets worn down quite a bit from them. 60 Speed EVs gives it 181 Speed, a decent benchmark versus defensive Pokemon and those that creep them, though the best EV spread won't be known for sure until the meta settles. Specially defensive is chosen here to better switch into Pokemon such as passive Water types and possibly other setters such as Charizard-Y and Alolan Ninetales. Although Pelipper is weak to Rocks, 8 turns is a long time for offense, and so Pelipper doesn't necessarily have to be able to switch in that many times. Due to its mediocre bulk, it shouldn't try to switch into too much, though.

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Electric] / Ice Beam

Specs might have a harder time this gen than last due to Mantine. With 20 more HP and Roost, along with Water Absorb, Mantine will significantly rise as a hazard removal option due to its ability to shut down so many Pokemon. To mixed defense Mantine, Specs Draco does barely over half, and with the threat of Water Absorb in the back somewhat forcing the Draco, it may be overall more effective to use LO HP Electric. This way rain's main sweeper won't completely kill your momentum. However, Specs Draco obviously 2HKOs after Stealth Rock, and so is still a fine option that also doesn't wear Kingdra down turn per turn.

Dugtrio @ Custap Berry
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Endure
- Reversal
- Screech / Stone Edge / Memento / Toxic

With +20 base Attack this gen and a newfound ability to actually inflict reasonable damage, Dugtrio is amazing at easily removing threats - so much so that it might not be safe to assume that Dugtrio won't be banned this gen. Anyway, although Focus Sash and Choice Band are solid options in general, the Custap Berry set is the only one that can potentially remove Pokemon faster than it (this team has no hazard removal, as is typical of rain HO, so Focus Sash is not a good option for this team). The list of important Pokemon this Dugtrio set removes includes, but is definitely not limited to: Manectric, Tapu Koko, Ttar, Lopunny without Quick Attack, and Xurkitree. The last slot is very flexible and could depend on meta trends or even be an option not listed. It might be tempting to want to replace this Pokemon slot with another Swift Swim user, but Dugtrio with base 100 Attack is so effective at reliably taking out so many things that it's worth the slot. Dugtrio also could be used to get that necessary hit off on Tapu Fini, which is a switch-in to Kingdra.

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Taunt

Tornadus is the perfect Pokemon to both abuse rain and give rain teams a strong answer to Grasses, which is why it's found on almost all rain teams. Largely due to Dugtrio, Focus Blast is less necessary, so the utility of Taunt might prove more useful. On rain, Tornadus should only run Life Orb because this Tornadus is not meant to pivot, it's meant to break. Although this Tornadus isn't meant to pivot, it still does a good job at being one (relative to most other Pokemon), and so using a minus defense nature might not be the best option because Tornadus's physical attacks aren't meant to do lots of damage, necessarily.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 44 Def / 200 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost

Mega Scizor is an amazing catch-all pivot, able to switch into Weavile and Gardevoir while still retaining the ability to sweep. Although Tapu Lele shuts down Bullet Punch, it actually still doesn't do well against this set unless it has HP Fire, and the rest of the team has several answers to Tapu Lele anyway. This set provides strong offensive, defensive, and utility support (U-turn is amazing utility for rain builds) and Scizor will almost certainly continue to be a top Mega in Gen 7.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Earth Plate / Groundium-Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance / U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Obligatory Stealth Rock, plus Landorus-T helps break through Ferrothorn, and Chansey can't deal with this set either. Due to its role as a breaker, using Earthquake as the base for a Z-move is an option to get off the one necessary huge hit - the Z-move is about 50% stronger than Soft Sand Earthquake. The raw power provided by this set helps the other 4 "faster" Pokemon (not Pelipper) score KOs more easily. Lum Berry is potentially another option to help with stray Spores, burns, and maybe to act as an emergency (albeit shaky) answer to opposing Tornadus without fearing confusion.


Other Options

Tapu Koko fits well on rain and is the perfect example of a Pokemon benefiting from both weather and a terrain. It's insanely fast (especially for a non-Mega) and under Electric Terrain, hits harder than Modest Thundurus-T with Electric-type moves. It also counters opposing Tornadus-T (barring confusion hax). Mega Manectric, while being an even faster Electric, might not have enough over Tapu Koko to justify the Mega slot.

Kabutops and Mega Swampert are, as always, very potent cleaners, providing boosting/priority and bulk, respectively. Omaster is also very powerful, but might consider running Ancientpower this gen due to Mantine.

If unbanned (or, until it's rebanned), Genesect has Thunder, U-turn, great synergy with Kingdra and especially Dugtrio, and strong offenses.

Mega Heracross is sometimes seen on rain due to its ability to destroy Chansey and Ferrothorn, which Kingdra struggles to break through. In a similar manner, Buzzwole or Marshadow could be used to good effect alongside Kingdra.

Ferrothorn is unfortunately a bit passive and doesn't take that great advantage of the limited turns. However, it's still very solid, largely due to its naturally good capabilities.

Xurkitree seems appealing due to its monstrous Special Attack and ability to use 100% accurate Thunder, but it's a bit slow, and having a Choice Scarf Electric Type forces the player to be cautious about killing the momentum.

Thoughts?

Where do you see rain going this gen - will it even be that effective? How will it fit into the weather wars due to the influx of many new setters? How much has it improved due to Pelipper? What other options for rain are worth the slot? What new cores do you see being effective in rain? How can we use new Pokemon, moves, abilities, and mechanics to maximize the capabilities of rain builds? With that, go ahead and discuss!
 
Hmm, let's see.... What are some new or buffed mons that could be useful in the rain?

Dugtrio: Will probably be everywhere, that +20 Attack is huge. It can trade 1 for 1 with a lot more Pokemon now. Being able to remove Tyranitar relatively early in the game makes life so much easier. It can also remove some Snow Warning mons, which makes helps if they're running a Hail + Slush Rush 2-mon core (you know people will use this early on). Dugtrio can also remove Chansey, a big thorn in the side of special sweepers.

Shiinotic: It has Rain Dish, and the rain weakens Fire moves against it. Might be an interesting pick for certain rain teams. Although it doesn't have the utility of Ferrothorn, it can actually check Keldeo. Of course, there's always Tapu Bulu or Amoonguss to consider for a role like this but Shiinotic has a few things it can do. Plus it's cool.

Tapu Bulu: Fills the same defensive niche as a lot of other grass types. It just seems like an amazingly solid mon that offers a lot of synergy to a rain team. It's stronger, though, letting it crush bulky waters that dare to stand against you. Unique team support in Grassy Terrain, which isn't too useful but lets your Kabutops take a hit from the Landorus-T it's trying to break through, for example.

Swellow: It gets Hurricane and buffed Special Attack, letting it be an alternative Tornadus-T pick. Using Swellow in rain means you shouldn't use Heat Wave, which is one of the cornerstones of its coverage, but Heat Wave is illegal with Hurricane anyways so you really aren't losing anything. Boomburst is strong, but even still Swellow is notably weaker than Tornadus-T so this seems like more of a niche choice. Either way, Swellow is shaping up to be a great pokemon this generation.

Tapu Lele: The Psychic Terrain support allows your rain sweepers to run through opposing offensive teams. Not that most viable rain sweepers are particularly weak to priority, but it helps prevent your Kingdra from being picked off by a wayward Sucker Punch or something. Tapu Lele is an amazing mon in it's own right and can help break through some problem Pokemon like Venusaur or Keldeo without relying on your Hurricane user.

Mantine: Mantine was hugely buffed this generation, gaining +20 base HP and Roost, and it can work on rain teams as a check to opposing Water types or as a Defogger. It has Swift Swim too if you want to run a gimmicky offensive set. It might be worth noting that Mantine is the only Swift Swim Pokemon with a reliable self-healing move (Ludicolo gets Synthesis, please don't use that on rain), so that's a niche you can use if you want a rain sweeper with some sustain. I don't expect I'd be seeing this very often though, as I imagine most rain teams will be running a different Water/Flying type.

Celesteela: Under rain, it only has one weakness which is kind of nice. Unfortunately it weakens its own Fire moves, and rain does it no favors when it's facing a Water type. It has a neat type that lets it answer to Grass and Flying types kind of well. I'm sure no one knows what Celesteela's niche in general is at this point, much less on a rain team.

Honorable mentions: Drampa (gets Hurricane but it's bad coverage, also a bit outclassed by Goodra on a rain team), Kartana (semi-neutralizes Fire weakness but still loses to defensive or special Fire types), Oricorio (can abuse Hurricane but stats+movepool are a letdown)
 

A

Joker fan
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Aside from that, the possibility of doubling up on Politoed + Pelipper (while may seem redundant) seems quite promising as having a backup drizzler is quite notable. You can also relegate your Politoed w/ Choice Specs or Choice Scarf if you want to fit the bill.

Tech Golisopod in rain to catch some of that dat nasty Tsareena



 
Also worth noting that z-rain dance gives +1 speed, same for all other weather setting moves. Some mons could get good use out of this I would imagine and maybe rather than running Pelipper + Politoad for a backup drizzler you might want to run Pelipper + a Z-Rain Dance mon.
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Ah, rain teams, my favorite even past the disaster that was XY OU! For the most part, the rain nerf still sucks, but I think it's much better in Sun/Moon since Talonflame isn't jamming its beak in your ass anytime soon now, and the game introduces some pretty nifty buffs/new mons that vastly improve on most of rain's issues in XY. In fact, you can probably just slap on any of the Tapus on your rain team and let em rip shit up. The following is all theorymon but I'm excited to try these out first hand:

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 200 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Scald / Knock Off
- Hurricane
- Roost

I thought Pelipper getting Drizzle was a pretty okay move at best considering Rain isn't exactly recovering after its prime in BW, but come to think about it some more, the fact that it has both reliable recovery (unlike Politoed who has to waste turns with Protect or risk momentum with Rest) and a switching move is pretty darned awesome. It'll likely outright replace Politoed on serious teams. Its low Speed actually does it favors by taking most hits first and then switching in a sweeper damage-free. U-turn will most certainly be a requirement for those wanting to use it. I think MattL's set up there is pretty solid for the most part, but any of its STABs could be replaced with Knock Off to screw with item-reliant Pokemon that would otherwise give teams trouble, such as Chansey (heard Eviolite didn't get nerfed) or pretty much anything else. For the most part, you're likely already bombarding the opposing team with other teammates with Scald or other Water-type moves so I think it's a negotiable slot. Other than Ice Beam or some shit, nothing else really stands out, so Pelipper should be using these five moves only.



Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band / Rose Incense
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower / Taunt
- Zen Headbutt / Taunt

Bulky Waters and other stuff like Tapu Fini, Azumarill, Chansey, and Rotom-W will sometimes come in and ruin your day just by soaking up Water moves and generally wasting your turns. So what better way to kill them is hiring some overkill? Like readytolose mentioned above, Bulu offers some great offensive and defensive synergy to the team by utterly wrecking the opposition with naturally busted Grass-type moves and coverage attacks. Banded Wood Hammer wrecks Eviolite Chansey (though Bulu will die too lol) and anything less bulky than it in one hit while even resists get huge dents or outright OHKO'd in some cases (vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias in Grassy Terrain: 264-311, 72.5 - 85.4%). If you're feeling cautious against switches, Horn Leech is also powerful while letting Bulu heal and stay healthy to its content. Alternatively, you can use Rose Incense to deal lower but still insane Grass damage while having the ability to switch moves and use Taunt (which screws with more stally mons). Some pretty good miscellaneous perks about Bulu is that Grassy Terrain gives your other non-flying sweepers free Lefties recovery for a few turns, and it can act independently outside of rain if you find yourself wasting more turns than you want. Rain also halves its weakness to Fire while Bulu itself offers some breathing room against Water-, Grass, and Dragon-type attacks. Nifty, huh? It compounds a weakness against Amoonguss but that's what Hurricane and Ice Beam users are on this team for.


Tapu Lele @ Life Orb / Twistedspoon
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Taunt / Aromatherapy

Like readytolose said above, Lele's main roles are to threaten of several roadblocks to rain sweeps, especially Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss, while just in general hitting shit hard and giving your teammates an odd but nifty immunity to priority for some turns. I can't stress this enough: Life Orb/Twistedspoon-boosted Psychics and Psyshocks hurt really, REALLY bad, and with its coverage moves along with Taunt, you pretty find yourself with little trouble against stall teams unless you mistakenly take Lele out early. Aromatherapy is an option, however, if you find your sweepers getting hit with Thunder Wave and burns too often. Like Bulu, Lele has the benefit of acting totally independently from its rain-reliant teammates, so it's not gonna be dead weight anytime soon. Lele's weakness to Steel-types is easily taken care of by wittling them down correctly with your Psychic-type moves and focus Blast, and having other Waters (obviously) on your team. Running Lele on your team also gives LO Starmie a boost to Psyshock if you decide to run that (also giving Pelliper room to not use Defog).


Tapu Fini @ Leftovers / Wacan Berry / Life Orb / Terrain Extender
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (or something bulkier idk)
Timid / Modest Nature
- Calm Mind / Taunt
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Moonblast
- Ice Beam

Fini isn't quite as fast or immediately threatening as its fellow rain sweepers, but like the other Tapus, it's able to act independently (to a lesser extent) from its teammates while offering some pivoting leverage, key resistances (against Dragon, Fighting, and Water), and offensive pressure. Fini's base 95 SpA doesn't seem too special at first, but think about it: Calm Mind-, Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps. Given its bulk and any fast Electric-types are out of commission, it's easily able to tank hits while setting up CM. If that wasn't enough, then Fini's ability to set up Misty Terrain gives its teammates an immunity to status and resistance against Dragon moves for a few turns, so stuff like Scald-spamming waters, Thundurus, or Amoonguss can't do jack shit about it for a while. If you value that over other stuff, you can use Terrain Extender. Ice Beam is there mainly to lure in and deal heavy damage to Amoonguss and other Grasses. Taunt + Life Orb (or Icium Z if you really REALLY want that Amoonguss gone) is an option if you wanna hit hard off the bat and disable slower defensive Pokemon.


Tapu Koko @ Life Orb / Zap Plate
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Dazzling Gleam / Hidden Power Ice
- Roost / Taunt
- Taunt / U-turn / Volt Switch

Let's be real here: if your typing doesn't start with the letter "G", u gittin' fukd by a boosted Thunder comin ur wai. Like other Electric-types on rain teams, the basic gist is to abuse a 100% accurate Thunder, and Koko fits the job really well because it's sanic speed fast and has a higher power Thunder than other Electrics. Stealing some ideas from jacksoras in the Tapu Koko thread, you can also use any combination of Roost, Taunt, and U-turn to stop walls and defensive Pokemon from recovering or setting up. However, having Thunder is largely reliant on Rain being up, and might run into trouble when other weather like Sun start being noticed and used. Of course, running a weather, you should already be prepared for that, and Pelipper does a great job of countering current weathers sans the Sandstorm setters. Ground-types are easily taken care of by your Waters, and Grasses are worn down by repeated Thunders, Nature's Madness, or teammates' Ice- or Flying-type attacks. Electric Terrain boosts Koko's and your other mon's electric attacks while preventing Amoonguss and Darkrai from inducing sleep.


Kartana @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Lum Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Smart Strike / Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Substitute / Leaf Blade

SubSD sets up almost for free against usual rain counters such as Ferrothorn, Amoonguss, the new Morelull evolution, and other Waters, Steels, Grasses, and stuff it theoretically scares out. Like the three Tapus mentioned above, can act by itself outside of rain. Other than offering offensive synergy and some Ferro tier resists (don't take special attacks though lul), it's just sort of "there". It might get banned too soooo your other best bet is Aegislash but then that might get the boot too.

And that's all I can think of outside of BB Greninja (could be a cleaner who's independent from rain thanks to its speed and coverage), Mareanie (too passive but matches up decently against Amoonguss and Ferrothorn by spamming Scald), Marshadow (I don't think it's legal at the moment), and Dhelmise (Rapid Spin, provides nifty resistances and has only two relevant weaknesses despite Grass/Ghost, but hampered by only above average bulk).
 
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Magearna looks like another cool option for rain. Specs probably doesn't have the best matchup vs some Grasses (and Toxapex), but it definitely pressures more proactive threats to rain like TTar and Lati@s.

That said, I'm a bit more excited for the potential of rain balance / BO in SuMo. With several new Grassmons (with hazard removal to boot!) and defensive options that can comfortably take on Waters / Electrics / Torn-T, it should be a loooooot easier to build.
 
I love preaching the gospel about the usefulness of terrains, so hee's another shoutout for Grassy Terrain and its power to cut Earthquake's power in 2! With this, Electric, Poison, Steel, and poison types touching the ground have a built in check vs the highly favored Earthquake, allowing them to threaten foes that would usually flat out destroy them. Even Volcanion appreciates having some earthquake protection.

-1 252+ Atk Soft Sand Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric in Grassy Terrain: 186-222 (66.1 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion in Grassy Terrain: 205-244 (56.3 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Heatran in Grassy Terrain: 232-276 (70.3 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery


+2 252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie in Grassy Terrain: 229-271 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

These are just to get you in the ballpark of how big this is. Even Mega Garchomp Earthquake has to be at +2 to for a roll on a starmie with absolutely 0 investment. Under Terrain's umbrella, you can be far more aggressive in your pokemon selections while teambuilding.
 
Rain's looking quite promising this generation. Pelipper is an improvement over Politoed as a rain setter. The Mega Evolution changes are a huge buff to Mega Swampert since it can take advantage of Swift Swim on the turn it mega evolves. Having to wait a turn to get the Swift Swim boost was my biggest gripe with Mega Swampert in Gen 6. Like the above posts mentioned, Tapu Lele is a great fit on rain teams since it protects your Swift Swimmers from priority. It can also remove unwanted Misty/Grassy terrains that weaken Kingdra's and Swampert's STABs respectively.

Also, Z-Rain Dance provides a +1 boost to speed which is great if you're carrying a backup rain provider such as the following:

Manaphy @ Waterium-Z
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Rain Dance
- Scald / Surf
- Psychic / Energy Ball / Ice Beam

This could serve as a back up Rain provider, stall-breaker, and potential cleaner against faster teams. Use Z-Rain Dance against faster teams while Z-Scald/Surf can be used to nuke a fat wall.
 
Rain's looking quite promising this generation. Pelipper is an improvement over Politoed as a rain setter. The Mega Evolution changes are a huge buff to Mega Swampert since it can take advantage of Swift Swim on the turn it mega evolves. Having to wait a turn to get the Swift Swim boost was my biggest gripe with Mega Swampert in Gen 6. Like the above posts mentioned, Tapu Lele is a great fit on rain teams since it protects your Swift Swimmers from priority. It can also remove unwanted Misty/Grassy terrains that weaken Kingdra's and Swampert's STABs respectively.

Also, Z-Rain Dance provides a +1 boost to speed which is great if you're carrying a backup rain provider such as the following:

Manaphy @ Waterium-Z
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Rain Dance
- Scald / Surf
- Psychic / Energy Ball / Ice Beam

This could serve as a back up Rain provider, stall-breaker, and potential cleaner against faster teams. Use Z-Rain Dance against faster teams while Z-Scald/Surf can be used to nuke a fat wall.
I'm interested in what other mons could benefit from these z-weather setting moves. I was thinking about sunny day solar power heliolisk, grab +1 speed and 50% SpA in one turn, could be fun. Also might make a sandstorm set good on some sand force mons.

Mons with swift swim/sand rush/chlorophyll/slush rush benefit less obviously since they get a massive speed boost anyways in their respective weather and certainly you'd still want some Drizzle/Sandstream/Snow Warning/Drought mons on your team but the thought of using some z weather moves for additional support is interesting to me.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
Mega Swampert seems like it might be a staple in nearly all Rain-Teams. For one, you start off with the Swift Swim boost on the turn you Mega due to mechanical changes which is huge for it. It also pairs well with Pelipper, being able to take on Electric-type attacks that would destroy Peliper, who can in return threaten Grass-types with STAB Hurricanes. I think Rain might be a threatening force in OU, especially when paired up with a Terrain - Tapu Koko specifically looks really good in Rain.
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Mega Swampert seems like it might be a staple in nearly all Rain-Teams. For one, you start off with the Swift Swim boost on the turn you Mega due to mechanical changes which is huge for it. It also pairs well with Pelipper, being able to take on Electric-type attacks that would destroy Peliper, who can in return threaten Grass-types with STAB Hurricanes. I think Rain might be a threatening force in OU, especially when paired up with a Terrain - Tapu Koko specifically looks really good in Rain.
Ohhh, that's right, I only heard about the Mega buff yesterday and before I forgot to include it, but holy shit, Swampert's insta speed boost is a pretty huge huge game changer for it. When I used Swampert back in ORAS, I would have trouble keeping it afloat since it had to take a hit from something faster before getting Swift Swim. Then Talonflame would come in and snipe it with BB or something. Instant Swift Swim is great for getting in that fast last-minute Power Up Punch on weak foes, or beating something that Swampert can switch into but has trouble outspeeding before taking damage.

I mean, you're adding another Pokemon that's reliant on rain to team, but Pelipper seems to do that even better than Politoed now that it has a slow U-turn option and the buff is worth considering Swampert over, say, Mega Heracross.
 
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I dont think rain will be a dominating as it was in 5th gen but it sure got some massive boosts with pelipper getting drizzle and new rain sweepers. Mantine is a mixed bag since it can help and hurt rain teams being a nuisance for other rain teams to take down without a electric or rock move.
 
Gonna post what I posted in the Tsareena thread. My rain team currently has her in it. See below:

For a Rain Team, I am trying a Offensive Spinner build that is very similar to how Donphan runs one. Have to put it to the test of course but I do think she has good potential. She helps soaks up Grass and Electric attacks that water fear. Fire is eliminated as a weakness for herself. Also not too worried about ice since, she stops the priority one. I think she should be able to take at least 1 non priority ice attack and retaliate with Hi Jump Kick as well. I have Uturn and volt already on my team so I went more for coverage.

Tsareena @ Assault Vest
Ability: Queen's Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Play Rough
- Trop Kick
- Hi Jump Kick
 
So, with the Mega Evolutions buff, Mega Swampert gets much better than before, since it has Swift Swim and 70 base speed since it mega evolves, becoming much better against offense


Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Superpower

4 attacks Swampert, the Jolly 196 Spe allows you to outspeed Scarf base 100 Jolly Pokémon, the rest of EVs goes in attack and bulk (56 Hp is for the odd number in HP, and the 4SpD gives Porygon2 and PorygonZ a boost in attack, and not in SpAtk)
 
To crosspost a bit, Araquanid got a pretty huge buff that benefits rain, particularly in doubles. Water bubble not only reduces fire damage and gives burn immunity but also doubles the damage of water type attacks. It becomes a competent physical attacker in its own right with the ability, especially with rain boosting it, but it also gets Entrainment. Pokemon that don't care about losing their ability after the first turn like Gyarados massively benefit from it. And even some non-water type rain team members like Ferrothorn or Scizor can situationally benefit from the extra survivability against fire it provides.
 
I was thinking of a similar water with the following (I don't really have sets but I thought of mons that could work well in rain)

Pelipper -
upload_2016-11-13_21-47-42.png

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 200 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Scald / Knock Off
- Hurricane
- Roost

Rain Setter, bulky offensive mon


Dugtrio/ scarf Magnezone -
Ability: Arena Trap
Dugtrio @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Screech
- Memento

Either could be used. I'd go for Dugtrio more as it could clean up, or just put the opponent in a bad position, trapping with Decidueye. Magnezone could be useful too for momentum with Decidueye, and helps with Steel types.

Decidueye -
upload_2016-11-13_21-48-6.png

Deciduye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 140 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Curse/Toxic/Substitute/Defog
- U-turn/Baton Pass
- Roost/Haze

Could be a good trapper, could possibly baton pass out for a +2 mega pert, If you're lucky. Great spin blocker so you can get hazards off on your terms, also makes a nice volt/turn core. Saw some good sets for it in the Decidueye thread. Curse + Spirit Shackle is amazing way to kill bulky/ troublesome mons.

Mega Swampert -
View attachment 73435
Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Power-Up Punch

You already know

Tapu Lele
upload_2016-11-13_21-47-22.png


Tapu Lele @ Life Orb / Twistedspoon
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Taunt / Aromatherapy / Calm Mind

Prevents priority, which'll prevent some revenge kills. A powerful mon on its own, AccidentalGreed has it covered for what this mon does. From what I read, this set kills eviolite Chansey, and Moon blast kills Bish as well.

Landorus
Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Earth Power
- Knock Off
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power Ice

Honestly this is just a filler mon. I would like some criticism for this team. I guess I would like a rock setter, or Defogger (could be in Decidueye).
edits - 1. added sets to mons, and Landorus
 
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With the newly revealed effects of water bubble, I think that Araquanid has potential on rain teams. With Water Bubble, STAB, and Rain, Araquanid's water moves are boosted by 4.5 times their original power, which is gonna hurt, even with its mediocre base 70 attack. It's also decently bulky, and has a good defensive typing that's further boosted by the fire resistance that Water Bubble gives. The burn immunity is also really good. Add in the secondary effect of Liquidation (drops the target's defence by 1 stage) and this thing looks like a terrifying wallbreaker under rain. Its biggest weakness is that any move that isn't water type is not gonna hit very hard. Its base speed of 42 is also pretty terrible, though that can be remedied with Z-Rain Dance, which boosts your speed by one stage. With max investment and a positive nature, Araquanid would outspeed neutral natured base 100, and positive natured base 87. Give it Tailwind or Sticky web support, and it would outspeed almost everything after a Z-Rain Dance. Thoughts?
 
I am really interested in seeing where rain goes this gen. Since nothing is currently guaranteed (Genesect) , here is a team I cooked up really quick.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 200 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Scald / Knock Off
- Hurricane
- Roost


Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Flash Cannon
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Thunder/Thunderbolt

Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower
- Volt Switch

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Surf

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock


**Still needs a last mon**


Volt-Turn for Genesect+Mega-Mane+Pelliper keeps momentum, allowing (1) Kingdra to abuse rain a lot harder without having to switch directly into attacks as often and (2) allowing Dugtrio to trap pesky electric types and weakened mons with it's now decent attack. Manectric, Kingdra, Genesect and Dug can RIP offensive teams. Something like Tapu Bulu would be cool to help against balance and Stall. Also, grassy terrain helps Manectric (who with intimidate) because it would take a lot less from defensive variants of Landorus:

-1 0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manectric in Grassy Terrain: 90-108 (32 - 38.4%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

I do not however like how Tapu Bulu heals the opposing mon 6% per turn. That could mess up some roles.

Also potentially adding Kabutops to help abuse the rain and provide a form of hazard removal came into mind.

Manectric helps deal with waters (Tapu fini, Azu, slowbro keldeo)

Genesect can deal with grass types.

Just a few ideas.
 
I am really interested in seeing where rain goes this gen. Since nothing is currently guaranteed (Genesect) , here is a team I cooked up really quick.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 200 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Scald / Knock Off
- Hurricane
- Roost


Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Flash Cannon
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Thunder/Thunderbolt

Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower
- Volt Switch

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Surf

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock


**Still needs a last mon**


Volt-Turn for Genesect+Mega-Mane+Pelliper keeps momentum, allowing (1) Kingdra to abuse rain a lot harder without having to switch directly into attacks as often and (2) allowing Dugtrio to trap pesky electric types and weakened mons with it's now decent attack. Manectric, Kingdra, Genesect and Dug can RIP offensive teams. Something like Tapu Bulu would be cool to help against balance and Stall. Also, grassy terrain helps Manectric (who with intimidate) because it would take a lot less from defensive variants of Landorus:

-1 0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manectric in Grassy Terrain: 90-108 (32 - 38.4%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

I do not however like how Tapu Bulu heals the opposing mon 6% per turn. That could mess up some roles.

Also potentially adding Kabutops to help abuse the rain and provide a form of hazard removal came into mind.

Manectric helps deal with waters (Tapu fini, Azu, slowbro keldeo)

Genesect can deal with grass types.

Just a few ideas.
chansey and ferrothorn both kinda shit on this team. recommend a strong fighting type to wallbreak both
 
I will try to go with such Electric Rain Team :


Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost

Alolan Raichu @ Aloraichium Z
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
- Surf

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Hurricane
- U-Turn
- Roost

Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent (Swift Swim)
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Power-up Punch
- Rain Dance

Araquanid @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Poison Jab
- Crunch

Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Atk / 118 SpD
Speed IV: 0
Nature: Brave (+Atk, -Spe)
- Gyroball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock


I looked quickly for some hard counters of this team but I didn't find any. I should be okay against Tapu Bulu, which was the hardest I found for now.
Do you have some other ideas ?
 
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chansey and ferrothorn both kinda shit on this team. recommend a strong fighting type to wallbreak both
That's why I was considering Tapu Bulu. With the bulk up set:

+1 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 570-672 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Grassy Terrain: 402-474 (57.1 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Both attacks viable options to deal with Chansey as it cannot do anything in return. Seismic Toss does roughly 29% which is whatever compared to the recovery I would get from Horn Leech + Grassy Terrain recov + Lefties.

+1 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 290-342 (82.3 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Standard Ferro set. OHKOs after rocks. Tapu Bulu really patches some holes for the team. Also neither of these mons can stop me from setting up.

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (91 BP) vs. +1 4 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 110-132 (39 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

That's after one Bulk UP and I recover almost 1/3 of that every turn. Ferrothorn can't reliably stop me from bulking up more.

Essentially, Chansey and Ferro get set up on with Tapu Bulu as my last mon.

Manectic still 2HKOs with Flamethrower: 252 SpA Manectric Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 152-180 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 48% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
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As someone who plays rain in the current gen, I can see some replacements to my set up that might be really good.
This is my current team:
Dunkey (Politoed) (M) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Encore

Shrek (Swampert) (M) @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Low Kick

Roadhouse (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock

Fionna!!!!!! (Tornadus-Therian) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Tail Glow
- Rest

The asian sensation (Thundurus) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA
- Thunder
- Thunder Wave
- Focus Blast
- Rain Dance

So I'll probably replace Politoed with Pelipper, Thundurus-I with either Tapu Koko or Tapu Fini, and maybe Ferrothorn with Toxapex. I think this new set up works really well because now I can replace my rain setter with a more reliable one to keep alive and have something to take away hazards which works well since the team will become more Volt-Turn based (especially if I run Koko and not Fini). If I run Fini I will probably replace Manaphy with Xurkitree because I'd keep Electric on the team, it replaces it as a wallbreaker, and it benefits from status immunity whereas Manaphy wouldn't care. Ferrothorn vs Toxapex is an interesting conundrum. On the one hand, Ferrothorn is ridiculous because of how well it Special Walls things like the Latis and Diancie under rain because HP Fire is pathetic against it, but on the other hand Toxapex gives me more safety from Fighting types which I normally can only check with Torn-T. With a Tapu and Pelipper on the team though it might not be much of a problem. I'm leaning towards running Fini atm because it'd make M-Swampert pretty much invincible but what do ya'll think?
 
Obviously, without testing, the rain teams we're seeing right now won't be representative of the product we'll get when the game comes out. Still, I'm gonna post a very preliminary rain team here and gauge thoughts on it.



Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 200 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
- Hurricane
- Scald
- Roost
- U-turn

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Superpower

Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 88 Def / 128 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes
- Leech Seed

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Screech
- Stealth Rock

Tapu Koko @ (Rain Dance Z-Crystal)
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Dazzling Gleam
- U-turn
- Rain Dance
It's a rain team. Speed is the name of this particular game. Go figure.

Relevant core here is Pelipper + two Swift Swimmers, which I believe is the baseline of pretty much any rain team and can't really be deviated from without losing a lot of the reason to run a rain team in the first place. Ferro is for resisting opposing Water-types and Grass-types, setting Spikes, and killing Fairies if it can get in safely. Chople is 100% necessary against Trace users like M-Alakazam and Gardevoir pre-mega so that they can't take advantage of Swift Swim and kill with STAB + Focus Blast. Dugtrio is Screech + SR to deal with Chansey and friends, though I don't know if it might just be better to run Endure Custap and give SR to Ferro (or just keep Spikes). Tapu Koko is the Z-move runner in Z-Rain Dance, which boosts Speed 1 stage on usage. This lets Tapu Koko outrun even Scarfers like Keldeo and Latios, which the rest of the team can't beat.

Obviously this team is very rough around the edges - Tapu Koko lacks power without Zap Plate / Life Orb, Taunt is most likely a better option in tandem with Focus Sash Duggy, which is why I'm still considering Endure Custap if the Rain Dance thing is better, this team still has some issues with Grass/Steel mons like Celesteela and Ferrothorn, no status moves to speak of, no Rock or Fire moves at all (which may or may not be a serious problem depending on playtesting), among others that I may have missed.
 
Obviously, without testing, the rain teams we're seeing right now won't be representative of the product we'll get when the game comes out. Still, I'm gonna post a very preliminary rain team here and gauge thoughts on it.



Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 200 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
- Hurricane
- Scald
- Roost
- U-turn

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Superpower

Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 88 Def / 128 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes
- Leech Seed

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Screech
- Stealth Rock

Tapu Koko @ (Rain Dance Z-Crystal)
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Dazzling Gleam
- U-turn
- Rain Dance
It's a rain team. Speed is the name of this particular game. Go figure.

Relevant core here is Pelipper + two Swift Swimmers, which I believe is the baseline of pretty much any rain team and can't really be deviated from without losing a lot of the reason to run a rain team in the first place. Ferro is for resisting opposing Water-types and Grass-types, setting Spikes, and killing Fairies if it can get in safely. Chople is 100% necessary against Trace users like M-Alakazam and Gardevoir pre-mega so that they can't take advantage of Swift Swim and kill with STAB + Focus Blast. Dugtrio is Screech + SR to deal with Chansey and friends, though I don't know if it might just be better to run Endure Custap and give SR to Ferro (or just keep Spikes). Tapu Koko is the Z-move runner in Z-Rain Dance, which boosts Speed 1 stage on usage. This lets Tapu Koko outrun even Scarfers like Keldeo and Latios, which the rest of the team can't beat.

Obviously this team is very rough around the edges - Tapu Koko lacks power without Zap Plate / Life Orb, Taunt is most likely a better option in tandem with Focus Sash Duggy, which is why I'm still considering Endure Custap if the Rain Dance thing is better, this team still has some issues with Grass/Steel mons like Celesteela and Ferrothorn, no status moves to speak of, no Rock or Fire moves at all (which may or may not be a serious problem depending on playtesting), among others that I may have missed.
Just looking at Rain teams again gives me PTSD.
 
Just looking at Rain teams again gives me PTSD.
we gen 5 now bois

They won't dominate near as much, but all the old Gen 5 techs remain valid, just less powerful. As somebody who fell out with the Gen6 meta as it wore on, seeing something familiar is really whats luring me back in

even if i ran Sun in gen 5, because fuck whats popular, sun was more fun
 

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