SM OU Trying to make PorygonZ work

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INTRO:

So, I'm not exactly new to competitive battling, but it's been a while and I'm certainly pretty new to S/M. I've got a few friends who mess around on showdown and maintain semi-viable wifi-battle teams, but that's about it, so I've spent the last week or so learning my way around Pokemon Showdown. After all of the effort of obtaining PorygonZ back in some of the earleir gens, I'm a little sentimental. Plus, Z-Conversion looked super interesting, so I decided to give a Shadow Ball Porygon Sweeper set a go. Been having some semblence of success on the (super-low rating) ladder, and I've definitely been enjoying myself, but the team definitely isn't "good". I'll elaborate in the relevant section, but I've been having a lot of trouble with my lead, Azelf, in particular. The metagame surrounding "lead" pokemon seems to have changed way more than I thought since Gens three and four, so it might be that I'm just using him wrong, but my lead plays so far have been underwhelming at best and outright throws at worst. Here's hoping I can just blame the team :D

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PoryGOD (Porygon-Z) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Discharge
- Recover
- Conversion


Pretty self explanatory, this one. Suprise suprise, it's the Porygon. Normalium Z for Z-Conversion, of course (haven't had to Z-recover yet, thank god). Shadow ball because Smogon says so, although I kind of get the whole "tears through more things than Thunderbolt will" thing. Discharge covers a fair chunk of the things that Shadow Ball doesn't, and the paralyse chance is nice against anything that threatens to outspeed me. Recover, finally, just to have a chance against any stallmons that I haven't already managed to break through with other pokes. Porygon is the poke I've tried to build the team around, and a lot of the other choices I've made at least attempt to support the idea of a Porygon sweep.

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Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Focus Blast

So this is the first example of my pathetic attempts to create team synergy. I threw PorygonZ into a few other random teams of mine and went into games against friends, only to find that he gets completely dumpstered by anything with a priority move or three. So... Tapu Lele! I haven't always been able to actually get a psychic terrain down before attempting to sweep, but it's presence usually means that I don't have to worry about Bullet Punch and the like so much. Psychic for STAB, honestly haven't tried Psyshock and don't even know if it's viable anyway. Moonblast for more STAB, doesn't benefit from Psychic Surge but helps for coverage. As for Hidden Power Fire; I've had some major trouble with steel walls, Ferrothorn in particualr, and Hidden Power Fire 2HKOs every Ferrothorn I've come across. Focus blast, finally, because Smogon says so and I had absolutely *no* idea what else to run.

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Mess with the Crabbo (Pinsir-Mega) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack

Mega Pinsir. God damn I love this thing. Weird typing, annoyingly fast and even gets the occasional chance to set-up sweep if I fuck up with Porygon. I suppose I've been running it as a revenge killer so far; it's pretty good at cleaning up anything that Tapu Lele can't deal with. Swords Dance just in case my noobish-ass mind manages to predict a switch and I have a chance to set up a bit. Return because it's the highest damaging "flying" move I could find. Earthquake just for coverage and Quick Attack to deal with scarf users (or anything else that's fast.)
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inb4 Aeroplane (Skarmory) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic
- Counter


Apparantly Skarmory is pretty good, and I need some form of Phazing to facilitate for all the setup baits I lose to. Roost so that I can be a dickhead and stall. Defog to stop people from setting up on me. Toxic over Toxic Spikes because I'm terrible at setting up entry hazards anyway, and to help with the occasional final 1v1 where I have to stall-scum to win. Counter over Brave Bird because I feel like I have answers to Skarmory's special threats, wheras Counter has the advantage of not recoiling you to death.

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what even is this thing (Toxapex) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes

Alright, so uglu-mc-spike-thing. I straight-up just copied this from Smogon because I had no idea how to run a Toxapex, but it seems to have been working alright so far. Scald because it's pretty much my only fire counter. Haze to stop Porygon or Tapu or whatever from getting ripped apart by the inevitable entry hazard sweep teams. Recover just for a little more stalling dickishness and Toxic spikes because Smogon says so. Honestly, I've been considering running Toxic instead just because of all the late-game stall battles that I seem to get into.
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This guy (Azelf) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Skill Swap
- Explosion

Right, so, this guy seems to be my biggest issue. I don't know if I'm playing him wrong, or missing some glaring oversight but it seems like he's useless unless he stops a turn 1 entry hazard or takes out a squishy threat. This is the second poke that's been almost directly copied from Smogon.com, and the friends I've asked have been at a loss. Right now, I'm just leading with Toxapex unless the team preview shows an obvious set-up lead.
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I honestly can't stand Azelf, he barely survives a single turn.

If what you need is a Taunter, why not try Greninja?



Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

We're trading Stealth Rocks for Spikes, but it isn't much of loss, I think Greninja would work a lot better with Gunk Shot/Dark Pulse over Taunt. I don't think it's that helpful.


Or, you can try...



Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 60 Atk / 196 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

We sacrifice the entry hazards for Knock Off. It's up to you whether or not it's worth it, but I love being able to get rid of foe's items right at the beginning of the game, saves me a lot of trouble. Then Thunderbolt for STAB, and HP Ice because you have no ice moves anywhere and you will probably need ice moves considering all the Zygarde/Landorus flying around.
Prankster is there to make sure Taunt goes first, but if you feel safe, you can trade it for Defiant, which raises his attack by two stages if another stat is lowered (like, say, by a foe's Intimidate, or maybe by Defog).
^^^
Which, come to think of it, can pair well with Toxapex's Toxic Spikes. The other team has to choose whether to let themselves be poisoned or risk Defogging and boosting your attack.
In which case, you might want to trade HP for something physical, like maybe Superpower. Maybe I'm just rambling at this point.



What I'm trying to say is, I agree with you; a lead is supposed to have some sort of effect on the game, and Azelf doesn't quite cut it. I personally favor Greninja in this case. Protean makes him difficult to nail down, he's wicked fast, and he can definitely make a dent into other teams (while also laying down hazards).


In any case, welcome back to competitive battling. :)
 
I agree with aria Give thundurus a try for a taunter and that means that you don't need discharge. To replace discharge give porygon-z tri-attack which is a nice stab move
 

Muscle K

Banned deucer.
Hello there Hepta! I'm glad to see someone try to make P-Z work, it's truely interesting and it's probably also a reason as to why noobs make dumb nominations on the VR ranking that blacklists the 'mon

Before I begin, I'd like to ask you a simple question: what sort of play-style are you opting to build for?
I do not wish to insult you, but this team at first glance seems incredibly confusing - it has the components of an aggressive build (also known as a Hyper Offensive Team) which is made clear with 'mons such as Pinsir, Azelf and Tapu Lele, but also seems to form a balance / bulky offense team with the inclusion of the 'mons Skarmory and Toxapex.

So for this rate, I'll be rating under the assumption that this is a Hyper Offensive Team.
And finally, I'd also like you to ignore the rates of the previous two users. Don't get me wrong, their opinions matter
but quite frankly, they suck. but they seem to be lacking in certain aspects.

So moving onto the rate:


Your team seems incredibly weak to Tapu Koko - a mon that has 0 switch-ins on this team, with the only way of defeating it being Tapu Lele.
Opposing Tapu Lele is also another massive issue, as your team has 0 Psychic Resists (I say that as the Skarmory is a physically defensive variant, and has a mediocre base special defence). The tier's biggest threats - Therian Landorus and Magearna are essentially untouchable as you have no 'mon or coverage that can directly hurt the two.

Stall is still a large issue, as it is able to not only play around with Lele's dual STAB, while also rendering Porygon-Z useless.
Both forms of Greninja are able to easily sweep once Lele has been removed, as Extrasensory on Protean Greninja can OHKO Toxapex with your own Lele's Psychic Terrain, and being able to 2HKO it outside of Terrain. Ash Greninja is able to OHKO nearly everything on your team, while being able to 2HKO Toxapex Post-Evolution.


Finally, Volcarona is able to sweep once boosted, being able to OHKO Toxapex with Psychic or Shattered Psyche and only truely fearing Pinsir's Quick Attack - which Volcarona is able to Cripple 30% of the time with Flame Body.

I know this seems like a small threat list, but there is simply too many things that threaten your team (again, no offence) but the listed mons are the biggest threats to the team.


To begin, I'd like to help you use Azelf. As an experienced Hyper Offence user, I have become very fond of Azelf's Suicide Lead / Anti-Lead tendencies. Azelf is used to set up rocks and remove threats such as Ferrothorn and Scizor or weaken 'mons such as Magearna and Tapu Bulu with Fire Blast - then immediately explode to gain momentum.
I believe that you're over estimating the capabilities of a Suicide Lead.

  • upload_2017-8-7_21-37-5.png
    Max Attack + Skill Swap --> Max Defense + Fire Blast.
So as my first change, I'd like to propose a minor change:
This may seem odd at first, but once I explain, it will make sense. While I did not mention it, as it is only a minor threat to the team, Lopunny is able to invalidate non max defence Azelf by being able to Fake it Out 1st turn, then out-speed and KO it with Return. Fortunately, max defence Azelf is able to solve that problem - being able to survive Mega Lopunny's Fake Out into Return - meaning that you are able to set rocks up and gaining momentum the next turn by letting it die, fulfilling its role as a Suicide Lead. The moves on this Azelf - Stealth Rock, Taunt, Fire Blast and Explosion - allow you to set up rocks, stop set up on the opposing side, remove a Fire Weak 'mon and deal massive damage and gaining momentum on death.

I believe this minor change can help you greatly.

upload_2017-8-7_21-27-8.png

Azelf @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Taunt
- Fire Blast
^ Good song to describe Azelf ^_^


Just Some Quick Minor Changes
  • upload_2017-8-7_21-38-57.png
    upload_2017-8-7_21-39-37.png
    -->
    upload_2017-8-7_21-39-14.png

upload_2017-8-7_21-44-21.png

Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire


  • upload_2017-8-7_21-41-10.png
    + Discharge and Recover ----> Thunderbolt and Ice Beam
upload_2017-8-7_21-44-52.png

PoryGOD'N BETTER (Porygon-Z) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Conversion


I will return to this with my other suggestions, but as for now I am going to have to leave it here because of time restictions.
Apologies.
 
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