Resource ULTRA Sun & Moon Sets VR Thread

[power]

Approved by Finchinator |Format stolen from OU Viability Rankings|Co-hosted by Finchinator, Eternam and Leo

Image by sneaky.

Welcome to the official ULTRA SUMO OU Sets Viability Rankings. In this thread, we as a community will rank every Pokemon's usable set into which tier of the viability ranking they individually fall under. In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various set rankings for each Pokemon. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes. Keep in mind that the sets are organized in order of viability!

SETS: If looking for sets they can be found in the preliminary pokedex sub-forum along with the OU Analyses sub-forum for WIP analyses: Uploaded and WIP

You can also consult with the OU Role Compendium for more information: A guide by p2​

Terminology

• All-Out Attacker means every move used on this Pokemon is an offensive move. There are no setup moves, utility moves, nor support moves.
• Offensive usually incorporates Pokemon that are Offensively-oriented; however, may have some utility with them (i.e. Taunt, Intimidate) or setup moves.
• Utility varies from Pokemon to Pokemon, but basically these Pokemon are not often Offensive based and, even if they are, usually support the team more often than sweep. Such examples are laying entry hazards, setting up terrain, or using U-turn / Volt Switch. This can sometimes be known as Pivot as well.
• Defensive are basically Pokemon that are more Defensively-oriented.

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SM OU Ranking Tier List

(In alphabetical order)

S Rank:

S Rank
Landorus-T
Bulky Choice Scarf: S
Defensive: S
Offensive Choice Scarf: S-
Flyinium Z: A+
Rockium Z: A
Focus Sash: A

S- Rank

Heatran
Utility Trapper: S-
Offensive Z-Crystal: S-
Specially Defensive: A+
Choice Scarf: A-

Kartana
Swords Dance: S-
Choice Scarf: S-
Choice Band: A-

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Clefable
Magic Guard: A+
Unaware: B

Ferrothorn
Utility: A+

Greninja-Ash
Choice Specs: A+
Waterium Z: A

Magearna
Assault Vest: A+
Shift Gear + 3 Attacks: A+
Shift Gear + Calm Mind: A-
Offensive Trick Room: B+

Tapu Koko
Shuca Berry: A+
Choice Specs: A+
Special Z-Crystal: A
Z Wild Charge: A-

Toxapex
Thapex: A+

Zygarde
Choice Band: A+
Dragon Dance: A+
Double Dance: A+
Substitute + Protect: A-

A Rank

Celesteela
Defensive: A

Greninja
Z-Crystal: A
Choice Scarf: A-
Offensive: A-
Focus Sash: B+

Hawlucha
Swords Dance: A

Magnezone
Choice Scarf: A
Substitute + Z Crystal: A-

Medicham (Mega)
All-Out Attacker: A

Scizor (Mega)
Swords Dance: A
Utility: A-

Tapu Bulu
Assault Vest: A
Choice Band: B+
Swords Dance: B+

Tapu Lele
Psychium Z: A
Fightinium Z: A
Choice Specs: A-
Choice Scarf: B+

Tornadus-T
Flyinium-Z: A
Rocky Helmet: A-
Assault Vest: B+

Tyranitar
Choice Band: A
Choice Scarf: C+

Volcarona
Quiver Dance + 3 Attacks: A
SubSwarm: B+

A- Rank

Chansey
Utility: A-

Gliscor
Swords Dance: A-
Defog: B+
Taunt: B

Hoopa-U
Nasty Plot: A-
Choice Band: B+
Choice Specs: B+

Kyurem-B
Z-Crystal: A-
Life Orb: A-

Latias (Mega)
Stored Power: A-
Utility: B+

Latios (Mega)
Offensive: A-

Mawile (Mega)
Swords Dance: A-
Offensive: A-

Pinsir (Mega)
Swords Dance: A-

Zapdos
Defog: A-
Roost + 3 Attacks: A-

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Alakazam (Mega)
Offensive: B+

Gastrodon
Defensive: B+

Gyarados
Dragon Dance: B+

Keldeo
Calm Mind + Taunt: B+
Choice Scarf: B
Choice Specs: C+

Lopunny (Mega)
Offensive: B+

Pelipper
Choice Specs: B+
Utility: B+

Reuniclus
Calm Mind: B+

Rotom-W
Defensive Defog: B+
Offensive Defog: B-

Sableye (Mega)
Utility: B+

Swampert (Mega)
Swift Swim: B+

Tangrowth
Assault Vest: B+
Physically Defensive: B-

Tyranitar (Mega)
Stealth Rock: B+
Dragon Dance: B

Venusaur (Mega)
Defensive: B+

Weavile
Choice Band: B+
Swords Dance: C+

B Rank

Alomomola
Utility: B

Charizard (Mega X)
Roost + 3 Attacks: B
Dragon Dance: B-

Diancie (Mega)
Stealth Rock + 3 Attacks: B
Substitute + Endeavor: B
All-Out Attacker: B

Excadrill
Focus Sash: B
Sand Rush: B
Choice Scarf: C+

Garchomp
Swords Dance: B
Rocky Helmet: B-

Gengar
Z-Hex: B
Choice Specs: B

Gyarados (Mega)
Dragon Dance: B

Kingdra
Swift Swim: B

Latios
Choice Scarf: B
Z-Move Defog: B
Offensive: B-

Mamoswine
Offensive: B

Mew
Utility: B
Mewnium Z: C+

Suicune
Vincune: B

Victini
Choice Band: B
Choice Scarf: B-
Z-Celebrate: C+

B- Rank

Amoonguss
Assault Vest: B-
Black Sludge: B-

Heracross (Mega)
Swords Dance: B-

Hippowdon
Defensive: B-

Jirachi
Stealth Rock: B-
Wish + Protect: B-

Latias
Choice Scarf (Healing Wish): B-

Mantine
Defog: B-

Quagsire
Defensive: B-

Tapu Fini
Defog: B-

Terrakion
Choice Scarf: B-

Volcanion
Substitute: B-

Rules:

• Post intelligently. Posts like "I think set X should be in this tier" will be deleted.
• No flaming and being an idiot. You'll get warned if you purposely do. This specifically includes making joke nominations about other users.
• Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Set X shouldn't be this tier because it isn't used that often!"
• Suspect talk, unrelated stuff, one liners that ask questions that provide no substance, something that doesn't really pertain to rankings or petty arguments about semantics and definitions, such as the definition of a counter as one example, will be deleted.
• Only argue about the rankings of potential sets here, not the individual Pokemon rankings, arguments about individual Pokemon should take place in the SM OU Viability Ranking thread.

 

[power]

[RESERVED]

 

[power]

[RESERVED]

 

[Colonel M]

So we're going to play this relatively safe since the meta has only officially started a day ago. I have moved a couple sets viability (AV Bulu is now the first set for example) and have at least provided sets for Blacephelon and Stakataka. We'll see which Blacephelon triumphs in time, but for now we'll go this route. Play nice everyone.

 

[écarlate]

​

Mawile (Mega)
Choice Scarf: A
Offensive: A
Calm Mind: A-
Choice Specs: A-

This should be fixed as mawile obviously doesn't run those sets

 

[Jeffv]

so, two nitpicks: firstly, Vincune isn't listed, and then, none of Scizor's set are ranked A, even know it is Zor's rank.

 

[Colonel M]

Fixed those.

 

[1_TrickPhony]

Choice Band Kartana UR ---> A: Very hard to switch into with Knock-off, fastest physical K-O er in the tier, gives Kartana another leg over Lando-T and Toxapex which few mons can boast.

Set is as follows

Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
- Defog/Smart Strike/Frustration

 

[Flame from Heaven]

Choice Band Kartana UR ---> A: Very hard to switch into with Knock-off, fastest physical K-O er in the tier, gives Kartana another leg over Lando-T and Toxapex which few mons can boast.

Set is as follows

Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
- Defog/Smart Strike/Frustration

What does this do that the swords dance set doesn’t? Choice Band seems like a terrible set considering that it is useless against any playstyle that has a non fighting week steel, prediction reliant as all of its moves are horrible to get locked into, and it is impossible to break its checksum without a z move.

 

[1_TrickPhony]

What does this do that the swords dance set doesn’t? Choice Band seems like a terrible set considering that it is useless against any playstyle that has a non fighting week steel, prediction reliant as all of its moves are horrible to get locked into, and it is impossible to break its checksum without a z move.

Punish the switch. Same reason why people run CB tar over DD tar. It also doesn't require a Z-move. Having that strong of a knock off is the only move that needs to be used in a lot of cases. There are many situations where one can't just set up swords dance and hope to not get killed, this causes the switch, knocks off an item + does a crapton of damage on a lot of switchins, and then leaves the battlefield having a huge net positive for the Kartana team. This set has a lot of viability and gives Kartana the breaking power it needs without being as vulnerable to switch ins.

 

[robopoke]

This doesn’t change the fact that you are walled by Mega Venusaur, Every non fighting weak steel, Zapdos, and so prediction reliant for every Pokémon that resists your stab combination. Every move on that set is horrible to get locked into, so you can’t snowball and sweep slower teams like you can with SD Kartana. I need replays to convince me that this set is as good as you claim to be.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-663154657
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-665388038
[url]http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-665868611[/URL]

 

[1_TrickPhony]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-665916399
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-665933310

 

[p2]

band kartana is definitely good, it has options to bypass mega venu, granted they're not easy to fit but the option does exist if you really need to weaken it.

i think all of magearnas sets should be a+, all of the broken offensive sets being a or lower is very questionable to me, at least sg 3 atk + otr should be a+ right now considering how good mag is at sweeping atm.

landot should have a sash rocks explosion set, it beats all defoggers apart from max speed gliscor / zap, but if it doesnt get rocks it kills em so. this set basically always gets rocks up vs stall and if you play well with double switches and taunt, you will maintain them which is extremely crucial for making the stall mu easier. it also gives offense a way to blanket check threats because if you keep the sash vs webs you get a free kill vs all breakers pretty much.

hoopa should have a non choice attacker set, which can be filled with plenty of other item slots, ones ive used are av and firium z, this is super important in a ttar meta and allows hoopa to surprise mons that are just supposed to switch into its stabs and pray its locked into said move.

victini should also keep its cb set, im not sure why it was removed but its still definitely viable. can't say anything about scarf though

scarf koko should also be a set, id put it in a- personally

 

[MegaStarUniverse]

On Landorus-T I think the SD Rockium Z set should be higher then earth plate. Earth plate in A & SD + Rockium in A+ is better.

SD Rockium Z hits everything in this meta for at least neutral damage. here some calcs

Hide

+2 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 300-353 (75.3 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 328-387 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 183-216 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 246-290 (64.3 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 346-408 (108.4 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Adamant at times is better for the better damage but jolly is useful at times too being able to speed tie with other Landorus-t and outspeed lead Excadrill.

Also Scarf Magnezone from B+ to A- and Scarf Kartana from A- to A reflects the metagame trends atm. Magnezone with scarf checks threats like M-Pinsir and and traps SD Kartana. Scarf Kartana is a very good late game cleaner and just clicks the right move once its checks and counters are weakened.[/hide]

 

[fightnugget]

hoopa should have a non choice attacker set, which can be filled with plenty of other item slots, ones ive used are av and firium z, this is super important in a ttar meta and allows hoopa to surprise mons that are just supposed to switch into its stabs and pray its locked into said move.

Do you mean fightium z? If so do you use that on a nasty plot set?

 

[Charmflash]

Hey!
I have a few nominations so I'll just jump right into it:

Landorus-T :
Focus Sash: A+

I've easily played 300 games above 1900, and am currently holding 2 spots in the top 10 and can say for sure that this is the most common set I encountered. I've also spoken to xtra and empo and they both agree that this set is completely busted, in fact they prefer it over lead drill rn. HO is extremely common on high ladder at the moment and focus sash explosion landorus as well as focus sash excadrill are the most common suicide leads. With that being said, while I do believe this set to be an unholy abomination, I think it is a bit stronger for ladder play and defensive/scarfed variants are more efficient for tournaments so A+ should be a good ranking for it.

Tyranitar :
Assault Vest: B+

I know this set was totally because of naganadel, however, it opened my eyes to just how bulky AV ttar really is. It is a great blanket check to a huge amount of mons including the newly added one, blace. Overall, while definitely nowhere near band this set deserves to be mentioned due to the great bulk and nice utility it brings via sand, pursuit and excellent coverage moves for the threats u are weak to.

Quagsire :
Amnesia: B-/C+

Some people might remember this set from oras... yeah it still does the same thing. In case u get rid of ur opp grass type u can start sweeping with this, assuming they had a grass type in the first place. Fits really well in the meta right now as it matches well against most HO's and offers bulky teams a great unaware user and win condition! Some replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-665916514
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-665922648

 

[Deleted User 400951]

Honestly I think that 4 Attacks Gren should just go to UR. It's just way too easily walled, doesn't provide any utility like Gren's other sets and is overall pretty ineffective as an attacker.

I''ll finish this post later but yeah htat's my main concern with the rankings rn.

 

[Finchinator]

Honestly I think that 4 Attacks Gren should just go to UR. It's just way too easily walled, doesn't provide any utility like Gren's other sets and is overall pretty ineffective as an attacker.

I''ll finish this post later but yeah htat's my main concern with the rankings rn.

I disagree a lot. You have to take in to consideration that it is not easily assumed what those four moves are and we are talking about a semi-common variant of an A rank Pokemon dropping to UR. That alone is ridiculous. If anything, it should drop to like B or B+ as it is not as effective and consistent as shit like Spikes Greninja, but it is still a viable option if the team doesn't need Spikes and wants Greninja.

 

[Colonel M]

Honestly I think that 4 Attacks Gren should just go to UR. It's just way too easily walled, doesn't provide any utility like Gren's other sets and is overall pretty ineffective as an attacker.

I''ll finish this post later but yeah htat's my main concern with the rankings rn.

Completely disagree. All-Out Attacking Greninja has a major advantage of being rather deceitful in its coverage options. It's still a Pokemon with a nasty potential to break apart teams and often has few good defensive switch-ins (and even some of those fall to wear down or nasty surprises such as All-Out Pummeling).

EDIT: shit Finch described that way better than me >_>

 

[Jordy]

I think that support Mega Latias should probably be added at B-/B, it works pretty well and has been a set on smogdex for quite some time too.

I'd also like to ask why Gliscor's SD set rose to B- when it's clearly inferior to Defog, it's not completely unviable I'd still put it at C if anything since its a mile behind Defog.

 

[Colonel M]

I think that support Mega Latias should probably be added at B-/B, it works pretty well and has been a set on smogdex for quite some time too.

I'd also like to ask why Gliscor's SD set rose to B- when it's clearly inferior to Defog, it's not completely unviable I'd still put it at C if anything since its a mile behind Defog.

We decided for now that Defensive Mega Latias should be unranked (I also modified this temporarily on the dex), though I'm open to placing it back in. Mega Latias is a lot more effective being a defensive Calm Mind user that can be rather powerful with STAB Stored Power. With Tyranitar still holding a lot of dominance, though, defensive sets with Reflect Type might be a little more favorable. I can re-add the set as time goes on.

I also dropped Gliscor's SD set to C+ (that was my bad, and you will now notice Mewnium Z resides there as well). I also made some modifications to a few sets. I also did do some adjustments including the recent VR changes which I did not have time to do (blame DDLC).

Some of the stuff was not added from above, but I am definitely open to looking further into some of the nominations (Band Victini as one of them, I did open up to the Hoopa-U nomination because I agreed completely with Choice Hoopa-Us being rather rocky to use).

 

[Jeffv]

Then Z move Hoopa-U received an analysis, will it be ranked in this thread ?

 

[Colonel M]

Then Z move Hoopa-U received an analysis, will it be ranked in this thread ?

It has already been ranked (Nasty Plot).

 

[Felixx]

Can someone explain offensive Defog rotom to me? How is it better than defensive pivot rotom?

 

[vso]

I think CB Zyg should be far lower and SubToxic should be added below Dragon Dance at A. Also, I think it's good to separate Z Crystals on the sets of DD, as Groundium is very efficient rn as well.

Also, I think Rocks + 3 shouldn't be the highest set on Diancie, and B+. I also think Nature Power Diancie can be added at A- below Sub Endeavor or B+ above Stealth Rock + 3 Attacks.