UU Victim of the Week V3 (Week Ten: Choice Band Conkeldurr)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sacri'

the end is here
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnus
approved by King UU & Hogg
OP stolen from Hikari

Victim of the Week

Every generation is different and the metagame is constantly changing. However there's always been and always will be one constant: Threats.

Whether it be a defensive threat or an offensive threats, any competent competitive Pokemon player should have some knowledge on how to handle common, top-tier threats.

That's where you guys as a community come in. This project aims to gather some of the common top-tier threats in the current metagame and find Pokemon that can either check or counter the respective 'mon.

Rules
  • Every round, I will nominate a Pokemon (moveset specifically) for discussion. Within one week's time, you guys will have the ability to discuss and nominate various Pokemon that you think can either check or counter the victim of the week.
  • After the deadline, I will choose the top three checks and the top three counters. Should there be a lot of nominations, I will discuss my choices with other skilled players to ensure the selections are not biased and that all nominations have been considered thoroughly.
  • The results will be archived and the process will continue.
  • When nominating your check/counter please follow the provided format:
- Name of the Pokemon
- Check or Counter
- Short Description as to why you chose this particular Pokemon
- Set(s) that work well against the victim of the week
  • Minimum of 3 sentences for each set.
  • Reserving Pokemon is allowed, however, reservation posts must be updated within 12 hours, or anyone is free to claim the Pokemon for themselves.
General Information

To be considered a counter, a Pokemon must be able to risklessly switch into any of the opponent's moves under normal battle conditions, including taking damage from Stealth Rock, and reliably KO the opponent before the counter is KOed itself.

To be considered a check, a Pokemon must be able to switch at least once into most of opponent's moves under normal battle conditions at least including taking damage from Stealth Rock, and reliably KO the opponent before the counter is KOed itself.

Winners will be decided using the following criteria:

- Viability of the Pokemon: The point of this thread if finding viable counters to important threats. Overly specific gimmicks generally don't work in practice.

- Effectiveness of the Pokemon: This is pretty self explanatory. The better a check / counter is at dealing with the the "victim", the more effective it is. Example: Blissey is more effective than Umbreon at walling Nidoqueen, because it takes significant less damage from all its moves.

Archive

Sylveon
Counters: Blissey (Thisbemyalt) / Registeel (Kreme) / Arcanine (LeoLancaster)
Checks: Metagross (Camilas) / Entei (Mr. Highways) / Aggron-Mega (Floushaide)

Salamence
Counters: Porygon2 (Floushaide) / Agrron-Mega (GXS) / Forretress (Killintime)
Checks: Empoleon (Hogg) / Whimsicott (dingbat) / Doublade (LeoLancaster)

Mamoswine
Counters: Gyarados (Ununhexium) / Alomomola (LeoLancaster) / Rotom-Heat (Lord Esche)
Checks: Cobalion (Floushaide) / Forretress (Dingbat) / Suicune (Cheryl)

Celebi
Counters: Escavalier (Lord Esche) / Registeel (Raphael2711) / Snorlax (Arkian)
Checks: Crobat (LeoLancaster) / Rotom-Heat (Lord Esche) / Aggron-Mega (Kreme)

Counters: Rotom-C (Century Express) / Empoleon (Lord Esche) / Metagross (Eutychios)
Checks Porygon-2 / (LeoLancaster) / Tangrowth (Kreme) / Milotic (dingbat)

Counters: Chesnaught (Mr. Highways) / Mandibuzz (Lord Esche) / Alomomola (Pearl)
Checks: Hydreigon (LeoLancaster) / Whimsicott (Century Express) / Cobalion (dingbat)

Counters: Chesnaught (Mr. Highways) / Mega Abomasnow (GXS) / Gyarados (LeoLancaster)
Checks: Alolomola (Kreme) / Shaymin (Adaam) / Gastrodon (dmw)

Counters: Porygon-2 (LeoLancaster) / Aromatisse (Kreme) / Sylveon (dmw)
Checks: Conkeldurr (Choops94) / Snorlax (Sam-testings) / Cobalion (Yoshiblaze)




Current Victim



Conkeldurr @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Hammer Arm
- Poison Jab
 
Last edited:

Thisbemyalt

Shiba sucks
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Blissey as a Counter

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
Blissey eats screams and shocks like its her job while also being a great cleric/rocker for stall. How blissey deals with sylveon and similar sp atkers is fairly obvious, tank hits and then proceed to set rocks, heal, or toss. Not really much to explain here not a single set can stop Blissey.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 216-255 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Last edited:

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life

Bronzong @ Leftovers / Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Bronzong is a Hard Check / Counter to Choice Specs Sylveon, as it's great special bulk and Fairy resist allows it to take Sylveon's Hyper Voices rather nicely, while also taking nothing from Psyshock and only being 3HKOed by a Hidden Power Fire. Bronzong can then threaten Sylveon with a 2HKO with Gyro Ball thanks to Sylveon's low physical bulk, giving it a nice offensive edge over the more passive Registeel. Bronzong can also set up Stealth Rock on Sylveon to support Bronzong's team and pressure the opposing team. However, Shadow Ball from Sylveon has a decent chance to 2HKO Bronzong due to Bronzong's Ghost weakness, thus making it only a Hard Check to Shadow Ball Sylveon variants, while being a decent counter to HP Fire variants.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 90-107 (26.6 - 31.6%) -- 25.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 28-33 (8.2 - 9.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 124-148 (36.6 - 43.7%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 166-196 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (63 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 176-210 (53.1 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

Sun

Who cares if one more light goes out? Well I do...
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- U-turn
- Drill Run
- Protect

mega bee is good check for specs sylveon, it can be easiliy Ohko it with poison jab, unfortunately its low Special Defense does not allow him to switch into sylveon's hits, then I would consider it as a soft check for it.
 
Last edited:

Bouffalant @ Choice Band
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Charge/Frustration/Return
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Megahorn/Superpower

Boufflant is a Counter to the Pixie Cat. While not the most expected, Bouff's ability in Soundproof makes it completely immune to the one move Sylveon really wants to click most: Hyper Voice. With a Choice Band, any STAB attack Bouffalant uses can OHKO this variant of Sylv, with Return/Frustration requiring Rocks to be 100%, but avoiding the recoil. Last slot even allows it to KO the common Krook partner on switchin with good prediction.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Bouffalant: 134-158 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Bouffalant: 101-119 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Bouffalant Frustration vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 315-372 (95.1 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Bouffalant Frustration vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 315-372 (95.1 - 112.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
 

BIG G CHOPPA

Banned deucer.

Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 80 SpD / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Explosion

Steel types in general are problematic to sylveon as they resist its most spammable move, hyper voice. Even then it does a great chunk to them but nonetheless sylveon is threatened by a steel type attack then. Metagross avoids the OHKO from all of its moves, while the only one that could really OHKO it would be shadow ball, which has a small chance to do so regardless. 176 Speed evs allow it to speed creep sylveon and outspeed by 1 point as it hits 220 while sylveon hits 219. 252 Attack is to hit as hard as possible while the remaining 80 sp def is dumped into sp def so that it could take hits from sylveon better. It's a check.

252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 708-834 (213.8 - 251.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 80 SpD Metagross: 140-165 (46.5 - 54.8%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 80 SpD Metagross: 192-228 (63.7 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 80 SpD Metagross: 256-302 (85 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(very low chance to OHKO, so rolls are most likely in your favor :3c)
 

Kreme

You might be right but you're not correct.
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus


Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave / Toxic
- Iron Head
- Protect

Counter. Registeel is a very good counter to Sylveon, with HP Fire only being a 4HKO on the behemoth and Hyper Voice doing less than 1/4 HP on a high roll. Registeel's also able to 2HKO Sylveon with Iron Head and can use Sylveon as a free way to set hazards and / or spread paralysis or Toxic. Protect can be run in the last slot due to Registeel not needing much to else to be effective (from its movepool, that is) and allows it to scout Sylveon's most common partner, Choice Band Krookodile, effectively.
 

dingbat

snek
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Reserving spdef empoleon as counter

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP, 8 Def, 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
Calm Nature
-Scald
-Stealth Rock
-Roar
-Toxic/Defog/i don't give a fuck

Shuca Berry Empoleon is a lot more common nowadays, but specially defensive is still a useful set seen pretty damn commonly. Although SpDef Empoleon isn't doing relatively much back unless it has Flash Cannon, it can still wear Specs Sylveon down, set hazards, or clear them. A resisted Hyper Voice does more damage than either Shock or Shadow Ball, so no point in calcing those two:

252 SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 90-107 (24.2 - 28.8%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 99-117 (26.6 - 31.5%)

I have yet to seen a hidden power ground/fighting/whatever Sylveon, but in the case you ever see one

252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 136-162 (36.6 - 43.6%)

Depending on how much bulk people are putting into sylveon (low ladder you might see max hp variants, but most are max speed):

0 SpA Empoleon Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 76-90 (22.9 - 27.1%)
0 SpA Empoleon Scald vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 76-90 (19.4 - 23%)

And if you're running flash cannon:

0 SpA Empoleon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%)
0 SpA Empoleon Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 152-180 (45.9 - 54.3%)

Pretty neat answer to Specs Sylveon
 
Last edited:
Woah, I luuuuuv this project <3<3<3 thank you Sacri
Reserving Escavalier Entei as a hard check


Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
Shiny: Yes
- Sacred Fire
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge
Entei is a Hard Check to Sylveon since it can switch in safely in any attack of Sylveon and in return, OHKO with Sacred Fire.

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 349-412 (105.4 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 177-209 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 146-172 (39.3 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 162-191 (43.6 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
Last edited:

LeoLancaster

does this still work
is a Community Contributor Alumnus

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Extreme Speed

Arcanine is a hard check to Sylveon. Although it is 2HKOed by Hyper Voice after rocks, it is never 2HKOed by Hyper Voice itself and is faster than Sylveon, meaning it can safely heal up with Morning Sun and 2HKO Sylveon back with Flare Blitz. However, Morning Sun only has 8 pp and Hyper Voice does up to 45.6% after Leftovers recovery, so it is liable to being stalled out.

The main perks Arcanine has over other Sylveon answers are less vulnerability to Pursuit and instant recovery. Between Will-O-Wisp to discourage Krookodile from coming in, and a switch-boosted banded Pursuit doing less than half, Arcanine isn't completely crippled by the KrookSylv core, although it will still need to be careful to stay healthy. And unlike most of the more Pursuit-resistant Sylveon checks, this one has reliable recovery to keep itself healthy.

Edit: oh and the speed evs are for Timid Sylveon, as well as Adamant Mega Swampert/Honchkrow/Tyrantrum

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 168-198 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 168-198 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sylveon: 198-234 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Krookodile Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 196+ Def Arcanine: 160-189 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Last edited:
Porygon2 as a check

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 240 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Thunder Wave/Protect
- Recover
- Ice Beam

The problem I face with most steel type sylv switch-ins is that they usually don't switch-in more than once. So if your team doesn't have wish passing, after 1 switch you no longer possess an answer. Porygon2 has access to recover and it's not exactly weak in the defensive side so wouldn't really mind a baton pass to a physical mon(unless fighting types). Like all eviolite mons pory2 fears knock off so you could run protect instead of twave(team dependant) to counter band krook and get a safe switch-in(band eq 2hko'es pory2 :( ). Modest sylv has a 2% chance of 2hko'ing this pory2 set with rocks. So unless you're really unlucky, you can come in heal off the damage and move on with the game.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 141-166 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 20 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 91-108 (24.3 - 28.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

A problem though is it does 0 damage in return although it should't be a BIG issue cuz if the opp really wants to stay in vs a pory2 you can safely beat it 1v1 and if you run twave(MUCH better than protect, but if you're too scared of the krookeon duo protect is nice) make it slower which ends up making your job much more easier.


0 SpA Pixilate Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 62-74 (18.7 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO

If you run download pory2(trace is better overall imo)

0 SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 72-85 (21.7 - 25.6%) -- 1% chance to 4HKO
 

freezai

Live for the Applause
is a Tiering Contributor

Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Roost
- Air Slash

Moltres as a check. It deals with Sylveon well and the only condition albeit a big one, is keeping rocks off. Would be a counter if rocks wasn't so crippling. Spdef moltres works as a check to quite a few other things as well. Speed is for mamo.


252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Moltres: 146-172 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Ditto as a counter

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Transform
-
-
gg
 
Last edited:


Aggron @ Aggronite
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake

Aggron-Mega as a check.
Thanks to its ability "Filter", Aggron-Mega does not fear HP Fire from Sylveon on switch-in, and can even afford taking another hit to OHKO back with Heavy Slam.

Sylveon's HP Fire : 252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 133-157 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Aggron's-Mega Heavy Slam : 0 Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 492-578 (148.6 - 174.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Moreover, Aggron-Mega decently tanks an opposing hyper voice : 252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron: 129-152 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
 

Sacri'

the end is here
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnus
The first week of UU victim of the week is now over! Winners are:

Counters:
Blissey (Thisbemyalt)
Registeel (Kreme)
Arcanine (LeoLancaster)

Checks:
Metagross (Camilas)
Entei (Mr. Highways)
Aggron-Mega (Floushaide)

----------------

This weeks victim has been one of the most relevant threats in the ORAS UU metagame for quite a while now:



Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate/Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Iron Tail

Good luck!
 

Sun

Who cares if one more light goes out? Well I do...
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Toxic
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- hidden power ice

Bronzong is really a solid wall for dd Salamence, that taking advantage of the lack of fire coverage, able to control Salamence without much trouble.
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 132-156 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Bronzong Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 172-204 (51.9 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

this choice may seem a little gimmick, but I can really function in situations.
 
Last edited:

Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Offensive Empoleon as Check.

Empoleon @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
- arbitrary utility move
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot

Provided you don't switch into an EQ, Shuca Empoleon is a reliable offensive check to DDmence, taking ~55% from a +1 Earthquake (and less from all its other moves) while providing a clean OHKO with Ice Beam. Not much to say here about the set - there are a lot of reasons why offensive Empoleon is so good on bulky offense, and the fact that you can always avoid a DDmence sweep if you keep your Shuca un-popped is definitely one of them.

Relevant calcs:
+1 252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Empoleon: 187-221 (51.6 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 168-198 (46.4 - 54.6%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Empoleon Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salamence: 464-548 (140.1 - 165.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Reserving Mega Aggron

I hate to be boring but, Mega Aggron for Counter.



Aggron @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake

Look the normal standard Tank set for Aggron can wall the moves of Mence up to a bare minimum of +2 for EQ to start being more threatening than anything else. With Roar you can phaze out Mence even if it has boosts and then can more than likely set up Rocks if they have not been put out already. If the Mence is not Intimidate the Heavy Slam can deal out a 3HKO, or a 2HKO with rocks out. All in all, Mence is getting forced to switch due to small damage or Roared out due to lots of boosts to scare away the threat.

Mence > Aggron

No Boosts
252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 73-87 (21.2 - 25.2%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 43-51 (12.5 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO
252 Atk Salamence Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 24-29 (6.9 - 8.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever

+1
+1 252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 109-129 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 85.4% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 65-77 (18.8 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO
+1 252 Atk Salamence Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 36-43 (10.4 - 12.5%) -- possible 8HKO

+2
+2 252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 144-171 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 87-102 (25.2 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Salamence Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 48-57 (13.9 - 16.5%) -- possible 7HKO

Aggron > Mence

Moxie Mence
0 Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 139-165 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 139-165 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Intimidate Mence
-1 0 Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 93-111 (28 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
 
Last edited:
Reserving Mamoswine as a hard check


Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash / Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
Mamoswine can't switch in Iron Tail or Outrage, but it can OHKO Salamence with one single Ice Shard.
 
Last edited:

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Moonblast / Ice Beam
- Moonlight

Cresselia is a Hard Check to DD Salamence. Cresselia's mindboggling bulk allows it to live Salamence's Outrages really nicely, only having a chance to be 2HKOed by a +1 Outrage after Stealth Rock. Cress has good ways of beating Mence as well, as Moonblast can 2HKO Mence after Rocks, and Ice Beam can OHKO Salamence after Stealth Rock too. Cresselia can even set up Calm Mind on an unboosted Salamence as Moonlight allows Cress to heal it's health so it can repeatedly set up, and do great damage to Mence after boosting.

252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 160 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 127-151 (30.1 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 160 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 192-226 (45.6 - 53.6%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 160 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 192-226 (45.6 - 53.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 146-172 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 146-172 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 272-324 (82.1 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

After CMing:
+1 0 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 408-484 (123.2 - 146.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 216-256 (65.2 - 77.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
Last edited:

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Tri Attack


Porygon2 as a counter.

First of all, Porygon-2's ability "Calc" can be useful as it can copy Salamence's Intimidate, and drop its attack.

secondly, It can take easily all salamence's hits, then gets its HP back thanks to Recover, or even OHKO it with Ice Beam

Salamence's Outrage : 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 105-124 (28 - 33.1%) -- 93.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Salamence's Outrage at +1 : +1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 156-184 (41.7 - 49.1%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Porygon2's Ice Beam : 0 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 360-428 (108.7 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Last edited:

dingbat

snek
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Disappointed that spdef empoleon didn't make it in, because it's actually a good answer to Sylv .-. Free Pengu

Reserving offensive cotton as soft check

Whimsicott @ pixie pl8/leftovers/whatever
Ability: Prankster
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 ???
Timid Nature
-Moonblast
-U turn
-Encore
-Grass stab/memento/whatever

Pretty much the standard Whimsicott set I see nowadays, but Cott heavily deters Mence from spamming its Dragon move, and if it switches in while DDing, it can just beat it with Encore. As an added bonus, it even outspeeds Mence and can ohko it directly, either with Rocks or with Pixie plate and no rocks. However, it's definitely never eating an Iron Tail and switching into a boosted EQ isn't doing it much favors, either.

Regular Moonblast vs 0/4 Salamence: 79.7 - 94.2%
Pixie pl8 Moonblast vs 0/4 Salamence: 94.8 - 112.3%, 68.8% of ohko
 
Last edited:

esche

Frust kommt auf, denn der Bus kommt nicht
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Reserving Tangrowth



Tangrowth @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Leaf Storm
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Sleep Powder

Offensive Tangrowth as a check

While offensive Tangrowth can't switch in to a +1 boosted Outrage from Salamence, it can still easily switch into Salamence on the turn it sets up, tank the hit in the following turn and proceed to OHKO with HP Ice. With only 172 HP investment, Tangrowth takes a +1 Outrage after Rocks and KOes in return. Hell, this thing can even take a +2 Outrage if necessary (granted you will faint in the process because of LO recoil and provided rocks aren't up but still). Earthquake and Iron Tail both do pitiful damage even if boosted, and if Dragon Claw is chosen over Outrage, it only has a miniscule chance to 2HKO at +1. It shouldn't be too hard to keep Tangrowth healthy over the course of the match, given its ability Regenerator provides it with passive recovery.

Outrage:

252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 168-198 (43.7 - 51.5%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 250-295 (65.1 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 334-394 (86.9 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Dragon Claw:

+1 252 Atk Salamence Dragon Claw vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 168-198 (43.7 - 51.5%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO

Hidden Power Ice
:

252+ SpA Life Orb Tangrowth Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salamence: 400-473 (120.8 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Last edited:

Kreme

You might be right but you're not correct.
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus


Rhyperior @ Choice Band
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Aqua Tail

Rhyperior as a check. Rhyperior can come in on any of DD Salamence's moves, not being 2HKOed by any of Salamence's attacks before a boost, and is not OHKOed by any of its attacks after a boost while it can OHKO Salamence with Stone Edge in return. Rhyperior can also take advantage of the free turn it gets when it's in against Salamence by wallbreaking the opposing team.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top