Pit Bulls anyone? :)

See, I get sick of seeing this. Yes, any dog can bite. And yes, pit bulls have the potential to kill, but do you know how many other breeds can also kill?! If you are going to call a pit bull a weapon and say they all should be banned, then you need to ban any dog that is over 40 or so pounds, because they can ALL kill. Hell, there was an infant killed by a pomeranian! There are breeds out there that put pit bulls to shame (can anyone say, caucasian shepherd dog or fila?), so yeah, lets go and ban pit bulls. Because maybe now they'll move on to those breeds! And you'd also have to ban rotts, huskies, dobermans, german shepherds, boxers (there was JUST a child killed by a boxer a few days ago), danes, sharpie (which btw is the "chinese fighting dog"), etc. Don't people see? A pit bull ban isn't going to work. They are just going to move on to other breeds. Either that, or they're going to keep their pit bulls anyway. People still fight dogs, and that's illegal. What makes you think they won't keep their dogs? Or continue breeding them? All a ban does is punish responsible owners, who's dogs DON'T go out and maul people. I will never support a ban, sorry.
 
Yes, any dog can bite. And yes, pit bulls have the potential to kill, but do you know how many other breeds can also kill?! If you are going to call a pit bull a weapon and say they all should be banned
You know what, that's actually a great idea.

Any dog large enough to kill a human ought to be banned. Because why should people be allowed to have those when I can't have a King Cobra? Snakes don't bite all the time. Hell, not even all snakes bite. They'd rather flee. Or sharks? Thanks, Spielberg, for giving them a bad rep. Few of them will even eat humans, and almost all of those would rather have seals. Piranhas aren't as vicious as you make them out to be. Tarantulas aren't that dangerous.

See? One can apply your logic to pretty much anything.
 
You are not making any sense. What the hell are you talking about? These are DOMESTICATED animals. And you're comparing them to wild animals? Alright...

You know what, cars kill more people than almost anything else. So lets go and ban them now, right? And guns, lets go and ban those too. In fact, lets all go right ahead and live in a little bubble. Then finally , we'll all be safe!
 
Clearly you don't understand what "domesticated" means. Domestic animals are livestock, dogs, and cats. They have been raised for a purpose with humans in mind, and have grown beside us for many thousands of years. I have 2 parrots and 6 chinchillas. Are they domesticated? Nope. They are "TAME", but they are not domesticated. Same as reptiles. Hey, I love reptiles, I've owned reptiles! But they are not domesticated animals...
 
So you honestly think that makes a difference?

Why was it that ancient humans started keeping wild hounds as house animals? It was for their hunting skills. One has to be either really thick or really naïve in order to not realize that these animals are predators. In their natural form, they are gladly willing to munch on some humans. Don't just ignore this. Instincts are always present. You want an example? Alrighty.

Humans. We are the most sophisticated and socialized race in existence, according to some people (I beg to differ, but whatever...). So we never fight over something stupid, right? Right? Humans never kill one another? Or animals?

You can take an animal out of nature, but bla bla bla. Big dogs are dangerous. They should be outlawed.
 
Ah, I see what you are saying. I was misunderstanding you. Yes, all big dogs have the potential to be dangerous. In no way am I saying a large dog can't harm/kill you. HECK, I kept stating exactly the opposite in my posts! My point is, there are sooo many other things in life that kill. Alcohol, fire arms, cars, planes... So why should a person's right to have a dog be taken away? Especially since dogs almost never kill people. Seriously, you are 5 times more likely to be struck by lightening, so where is the logic in banning something so widespread, that very rarely poses such a threat? Do you see what I'm saying?
 
Alcohol, fire arms, cars, planes...
Fire arms are probably the most apt analogy. They aren't dangerous in and of themselves. They need someone to consciously use them for a bad purpose. So can I go down and buy a gun whenever I want? No, I don't have a license.

Heck, that might be an idea... A license for the dogs. Thoughts?

Oh, and alcohol could be outlawed for all I care. I never drink.

Seriously, you are 5 times more likely to be struck by lightening
Could I please get a source for this?

so where is the logic in banning something so widespread, that very rarely poses such a threat?
No. Unlike planes which have security measures, you can't install anything in a dog that makes it safer. I don't trust dogs as long as they are big enough to pose a threat and I don't see why I should be forced to be around them.
 
Fire arms are probably the most apt analogy. They aren't dangerous in and of themselves. They need someone to consciously use them for a bad purpose. So can I go down and buy a gun whenever I want? No, I don't have a license.

Heck, that might be an idea... A license for the dogs. Thoughts?

Oh, and alcohol could be outlawed for all I care. I never drink.



Could I please get a source for this?



No. Unlike planes which have security measures, you can't install anything in a dog that makes it safer. I don't trust dogs as long as they are big enough to pose a threat and I don't see why I should be forced to be around them.
Yes, I really do think it's a fantastic idea for everyone to need a license to own a dog! That's the problem, ANYONE can own a dog. It's something I believe should be regulated. My beef was that it has been "breed specific", when really, all dogs pose a possible danger. And about the guns, yes, guns aren't necessarily dangerous in and of themselves. But when someone is negligent and leaves it within a child's reach, and the child shoots them self or their friend, than that's on the owner of the gun. That's what I meant by comparing guns to dogs, is that a lot still goes into how they are managed. People need to manage their dogs, the same way they should manage anything that could pose a danger.

Here is my source for that statistic. It is really a fascinating book: http://www.amazon.com/Dogs-Bite-Balloons-Slippers-Dangerous/dp/1888047186 Trust me, I have done a ton of research on these dogs and have given many presentations. I have my facts strait.

Ah, but you CAN make a dog safer! Containment is the MOST important factor. Waaay too many people just leave their dogs out on their own in the backyard, where they are just left to jump the fence and wreak havoc. You should always supervise your dog! If you know your dog is aggressive, muzzle it! That's a safety measure, right? And what about leashing? Soo many people utterly refuse to follow the leash law, and just let their dogs run wherever they please. All of these things are the owners mismanagement, and those owners need to be targeted, not the dogs themselves. Dogs can be managed just like anything else, so if people say "let's ban certain dogs", they might as well ban anything else that could potentially be harmful.
 
Eh in that case I'd go ahead and ban pretty much any dog that can kill a human being and make people/specialists have some type of license for ownership.

I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding this, but what the hell does anyone need a dog for in the 21st century?? I understand farmers, hunters, the disabled, and basically people who put them to use, but why even own a dog if it isn't a need? They smell like shit, don't belong in a person's home, destroy your backyard, eat anything and everything,..wtf? Dog's just remind me of hyper retarded kids. With big teeth.

Drop the ban hammer imo. I don't care whether people own dogs or not. I do care when people house 50 pound hyper-retarded predators in their homes where children tend to enjoy life and aren't used to getting mauled.
 

Eraddd

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I don't trust humans to raise anything properly; thus, I will always be weary of the breed.

Don't mistaken me for some ignorant fool. I know how unfair of a rap pit bulls, and other "dangerous" breeds gets from the media. Many of them are mostly harmless and very sweet.

However, firstly, humans don't train them properly, or they train them for the purpose of being vicious animals. Pit Bulls, by some accounts, are pretty difficult to train (this applies to other breeds of course). Some humans are just lazy idiots, and refuse to train the dog, leading to accidents. Furthermore, I've talked to a few breeders, and they told me how to breed vicious animals. Take a litter of puppies (is litter the right word?) and twist the ears. If they snarl, they're vicious enough to be bred again. If they whimper, they drown them. They continue the process until they get pit bulls that are vicious. Then they proceed to treat them like shit, making them distrust humans. Then comes accidents, deaths, and the huge media exposure.

The dogs aren't the problem, it's us. And that's why I support a ban.
 
Eh in that case I'd go ahead and ban pretty much any dog that can kill a human being and make people/specialists have some type of license for ownership.

I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding this, but what the hell does anyone need a dog for in the 21st century?? I understand farmers, hunters, the disabled, and basically people who put them to use, but why even own a dog if it isn't a need? They smell like shit, don't belong in a person's home, destroy your backyard, eat anything and everything,..wtf? Dog's just remind me of hyper retarded kids. With big teeth.

Drop the ban hammer imo. I don't care whether people own dogs or not. I do care when people house 50 pound hyper-retarded predators in their homes where children tend to enjoy life and aren't used to getting mauled.
Well, for one, humans use dogs for more than just work. They use them for companionship as well. I love dogs, and I will always have a dog in my life. I find it really sad when people can't find the love in animals. Again, I do think a license is a good idea. But not an outright ban.

Eraddd said:
I don't trust humans to raise anything properly; thus, I will always be weary of the breed.

Don't mistaken me for some ignorant fool. I know how unfair of a rap pit bulls, and other "dangerous" breeds gets from the media. Many of them are mostly harmless and very sweet.

However, firstly, humans don't train them properly, or they train them for the purpose of being vicious animals. Pit Bulls, by some accounts, are pretty difficult to train (this applies to other breeds of course). Some humans are just lazy idiots, and refuse to train the dog, leading to accidents. Furthermore, I've talked to a few breeders, and they told me how to breed vicious animals. Take a litter of puppies (is litter the right word?) and twist the ears. If they snarl, they're vicious enough to be bred again. If they whimper, they drown them. They continue the process until they get pit bulls that are vicious. Then they proceed to treat them like shit, making them distrust humans. Then comes accidents, deaths, and the huge media exposure.

The dogs aren't the problem, it's us. And that's why I support a ban.
I agree with most of what you said. However, I just can't understand the logic behind a ban. Sure, ban pit bulls, and MAYBE people will stop owning them (seriously, dog fighting is illegal and people still do that...). But even then, they'll move onto another breed. Then what, ban that breed? Keep banning until there are no more large breeds? Then what? It's ridiculous, and it's never going to happen. So really, why ban pit bulls? It just doesn't make any practical sense...
 

ginganinja

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Its funny people are talking about banning Dogs/pit bulls when in Iran(?) cats and dogs are being banned (though admittedly for different reasons). Anyway I also wanted to add something to my earlier post.

Even though I have had a few bad experiences with dogs (and pitbulls) I do not want them banned. sure I will now cross the road 77% of the time when I se a dog (90% if its a pitbull) but I have met nice dogs which is always nice. I guess I blame myself that it was somehow my fault I had those bad experiences since I don't realy 'hate' pitbulls or dogs. Still, I will always be wary of them though

Have a Nice Day!
 

vonFiedler

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Charmander #4, you were easily one of the most annoying posters on this forum just when you were on firebot. Now you're honest to god suggesting extinction. Well, what else do you think happens when "all big dogs are banned"? Are they gonna live in the wild? Hopefully they'll just be moved to a state that isn't populated by complete fucking retards, but that would just make the animal overpopulation problem worse.

Anyone who supports the death of a single companion animal, let alone the mandatory extinction of a race, just because they "don't understand the appeal" is the worst kind of human being bar none. Trying to ban something because you don't like it is self-centered and really childish even when you're not talking about a living being. Speaking out for the protection of dogs is so much more important to me than not getting an infraction, so I cannot emphasize enough that there are some real stupid motherfuckers itt who I would trust less than a pitbull to care about the sanctity of life.
 
So you guys find actual use for predators raised by morons in modern day society? Obviously I don't suggest the extinction of any animal, but no I don't want to see dogs that are capable of killing humans in the same viscinity as children. And yes I value the lives of little human beings more than I do dogs. bite me.

I understand the point of companionship, though. Several stories float around of dogs saving people from drowning and the loyalty dogs are capable of. That's cool. With that in mind I wouldn't ban dangerous dogs outright, but I would ban them from most public places. Enforce licenses for owning dogs, keep them away from children and the general public, and I'm game.

I'm sorry if I come off as cold but I can't ever let my little cousins or brother go in the park because they're littered with "tamed" predators. If banning dogs from public places is the only way to prevent this, I'd say go for it.
 

vonFiedler

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I don't think people like you "value people more than dogs". I think you only value your own life and an irrational and stupid fear has led you to believe in legislation of something that "doesn't affect me, I don't own them". You do realize that the kind of people who poorly raise pit bulls don't take them on walks in the park right? There's no legislation I'd defend against more.

If you actually had a dog, maybe you wouldn't be so jaded about them. They do not smell, they are not hard to clean up after, and you could get a nice small dog that you wouldn't have to cower in fear of. Dogs have been raised for thousands of years as the companion animal to the human race. They are a part of the human race and I don't care who says otherwise, and they don't have the intelligence to have all the rights we value but deserve the right to live and we rarely afford them that. Everyone who doesn't own a dog is letting one die in the pounds.
 
You're absolutely right in that case we should all adopt a crate full of dogs. Because it'd be mean of us to let them die in the animal shelters. With that in mind you're letting thousands of orphans die without them ever experiencing the feeling of growing up in a normal family by not adopting any of them!! Kittens too! See what I did there? Don't point fingers and pull that politically correct bullshit.

Couple of points I'd like to make;
-I've owned a dog before
-I understand they can be great companions
-I never once suggested actually killing off any breed. I'd ban them from public areas where children and anyone vulnerable to them plays. EDIT: After thinking about this again I'd be ok with very strictly enforced leash laws.
-Yes, gangster wanabees do bring their dogs to the parks and playgrounds. It's why you don't see any kid from my family in them. Perhaps you grew up in a nicer neighborhood.
-I don't fear for myself I fear for little kids and the elderly. I'm nearly a 200lb guy. I'm confident in myself that I could fend off an aggressive dog. Could a child?? hell no.
-So yes I'd ban pitbulls from public areas. Perhaps it's you who's being greedy here? You're passionate about the animals so I'm assuming you make a great owner/trainer. I don't have the same faith in most people however. When dogs bite I put blame on both the animal and the owner.
-Grooming the animal obviously depends on the owner. In my experience dogs don't belong in the house, and once they're in the back yard they dig shit up and shit EVERYWHERE. It makes a person's backyard from a place where you can invite neighbors into a huge shitfest with a hyper animal running around 24.7. And if you don't want to have a shitty backyard, you have to chain your dog. That limits his freedom and kind of makes his life worse to be honest with you. I wouldn't want to live on a chain.

The whole situation with overcrowded animal shelters is a bit messy. People keep letting their dogs breed when they're overpopulated as is and animal shelters are littered with unwanted animals. It's sad, but at the same time I don't take kindly to anyone pointing fingers and saying 'you should do this because it's right'..not everyone wants or has the needs to own a dog.
 

vonFiedler

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See, orphanages don't kill kids that don't get adopted. That and more people have kids than dogs. Multiple kids even. It's still a miserable situation, but killing an animal simply because it has no place is not "sad", it's wrong.

I know guys who are just like you, who are over 200 lbs., and have bolted when they saw a dog.

There are dozens of parks between Shelton and Seattle, and not all of them are nice, but if you don't take your children to a park it's not because of any dogs. Its the gangster wanabees themselves and the actual crime that goes on. Not that I've ever seen dogs in a bad park myself.

Grooming and training my dog has taken up slightly more time in my life than tying my shoelaces. My big dog (white lab) does not harm the inside or the outside of the house at all. At worst she rolls her ball under a chair from time to time and whines until I retrieve it.
 
I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding this, but what the hell does anyone need a dog for in the 21st century??
You're kidding, right? A dog is still very useful and will be for a very very long time. It might not be as useful if you live in a gigantic 100 story building in the middle of new york city, but to most people it will be.
I have a couple of dogs myself. One is used primarily as a guard dog and the other is there mainly for companionship. One is a 120 lb german shepard, the other is a 6-7 pound chihuahua. Let me start off with the first dog. It's used for protection. Protection of what you might ask? Chickens. I have very valuable chickens that some people might want to steal, the dog keeps people away. It doesn't bite people, but it's sheer presence deters people from intruding into my backyard. Who would want to trespass into a place where a 120 pound animal resides? Not very many people. A dog is in my case a million times better than an alarm system. an alarm doesn't notify you if there are strangers nearby. It doesn't keep people from going into your property and it doesn't pose an immediate threat. Threat is probably not the right word since that makes it seem like my dog is going to bite you to pieces, but that's not what the dog does. If you listen carefully you will notice that dogs have different types of barks. There are three main types of barks i can recognize from both of my dogs. One is the playful bark. the other is when they are barking at another animal, perhaps a cat. and the other is the bark at a human. This last bark is it's main purpose. notify when someone is fucking up. when someone hears this bark, we go and investigate. If it's no threat, maybe the neighbors are having a party, then we simply let the dog know it's Ok and problem solved. If someone is trying to trespass, they will most likely leave since they see people are home. No other animal/legal technology can do so much while still being your unconditional friend.

Even if you don't have valuables on your property, a dog can still be used to notify you of any other people nearby. This is the function of the little dog. Mail man is coming, dog barks. People walking by, dog barks. someone in your yard, dog barks. It lets me know when someone is in the area. Some people see that is a nuisance, but this is exactly what humans bred dogs to do and it is exactly what they do for me. Anyone with a good dog will be less likley to get caught by suprise if ever a burglar/rapist/serial killer was trying to commit a crime on your or your property.

related to thread http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jh2_2z92mw&feature=sub
 
@BlakBlastoise-point take on the guard dog. thanks, totally agree

@vonFiedler-weight has absolutely no relation to how mentally tough someone is. I mentioned it because you claimed I'm afraid of dogs after I mentioned how threatening I believe they are towards children. I mentioned the size related to the size of a kid. Point being a grown person has a better chance vs an aggressive animal like a pitbull. Don't be ignorant a little kid has little chance to fend off a dog.

That being said I don't see why you're going after me for saying the situation was "sad." Unfortunately animal shelters are so full they have to get rid of the animals for new arrivals. The way they do it is subjective of course.


The real solution to stopping the overpopulation of dogs is preventing them to breed. Adoption alone won't do it because you don't get a dog every couple of weeks, and because not everyone wants/needs a dog (me). Also it seems apparent that dogs are being bred faster than adopted.
 
Dogs are a reflection of their owner responsibility. Most people who get pit bulls can't care for them properly and the dog's life usually ends with the scarring of a human's. I've seen with my own two eyes, people get mauled by pit bulls. I've seen a pack of pit bulls go around my neighborhood just slaying other dogs; however, none of this is the dogs fault. Pit bulls have the potential to be the deadliest dogs on the planet, man's worst enemy if they aren't properly raised. On the other hand, they can be very gentle.
Pits bulls are good dogs, they just have the potential to be dangerous. I think they should require owners to have license's before owning a dominating breed and have a way of identifying the dog if the owner releases it[so the owner can be punished]. Pit pulls cause way to many problems when they are cut to the wild, and far too many irresponsibles are releasing them all over the place. Why are these thugstas allowed to bring their dogs to public parks where children are at play?? I've seen for myself, and by other means, far to many times, just how deadly a pit bull.
I'm about a 200 lb young man, and I wouldn't want to have a confrontation with multiple pit bulls.

I personally would not own a pit bull nor any other dominating breed because of what they could do if provoked in my absence. BTW, none of my dogs have ever bitten anyone.


That was their dog, and it owned them. I've seen too many videos like this, and I think you should have to have a permit for such breeds. Those people don't look like they could handle any type of dog.



Just skip to 2:10. The officer's actions were unnecessary . The dog wasn't really posing a threat to him. The cop should have at least got animal control on the scene. If the dog was going to attack, he would have done it immediately.

*Both videos are fairly graphic.
 
My neighbor has a pitbull-lab mix, and she is so loveable (though she jumps a lot, and her owners sort of neglect her by leaving her outside most the time). C:

I don't know if this has been said yet, but did you know there are more bites from golden retrievers (known for their kind nature) annually than there are from pit bulls?

I wouldn't own a pit bull myself (I'm a novice pet owner), but they are great dogs. The reason most people assume that pit bulls are aggressive are their body features (lean, muscular, "sharp" teeth), how they're shown on television, and of course, bad owners. Dog-fighting rings? BLAME BAD OWNERS. No dog is naturally bad-behaving unless taught that way.

Mini-rant. Anyway, I like pit-bulls, and most other dogs. <3
 
Right, but the only reason you see such a high rate of fatalities is because they are very over populated right now. It's the same as there being more accidents on the road with more and more people driving, there's just a higher chance of an accident happening. Once the breed popularity dies down, trust me, you won't be seeing so many attacks. Pit bulls have been around for 100 years, where were all of these attacks back then if it's the breed? First it was the blood hound (and hell, no one's afraid of them anymore, but they were the first "devil dog"), then the doberman/gsd/rottweilers, and now it's pit bulls. The whole reason this mess began in the first place was the media placing fear and myths into people's minds after dog fighting was made to be illegal in the 70's-80's. That attracted a very wrong crowd to the breed, while making everyone else afraid. It's really a shame, they're such wonderful dogs.
I love all dogs execpt dangerous breeds (rotweiler,doberman,PITBULL,etc...)
Why?
Cause those Dogs are monsters,you shouldn't defend them.
Actually i'm going to tell you a story
Once upon a time in Portugal there was an ukranian emigrant that was going to work,she was very poor so she didn't had a car.By her way a Pitbull atacked here and she died
And, NO!She didn't do anything to the Dog there were people seeing!
Think well...
But really it is your choice.
 
I'm in a similar situation in that I used to work at a dog rescue here in England and a good 40% of the dogs there were either Rottweilers or Staffordshire Bull Terriers. It was quite saddening to see people looking round, choosing a dog and not taking a second look at these dogs. Most, if not all of them were the friendliest dogs you could imagine, but due to bad press and whatnot, people instantly turn them down. It makes me angry, much like it does you.
 

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