Which one is the best Swift Swimmer in Randombattles [gen3] (Gorebyss vs Huntail)?
Many people wrongly assume that Gorebyss and Huntail battle somewhat the same and, while their niche is very similar (Swift Swim Sweeper), by looking at their stats
you can see that they can act very differently.
Gorebyss:
HP: 230
ATK: 188
DEF: 225
SPA: 239 (359 after petaya)
SPD: 174
SPE: 136 (272 in rain)
Moveset: Rain Dance, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, HP Grass/Electric
Items: Petaya Berry, Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
Huntail:
HP: 240
ATK: 232
DEF: 235
SPA: 215 (323 after petaya)
SPD: 182
SPE: 142 (284 in rain)
Moveset: Rain Dance, Hydro Pump, HP Grass, Double-Edge/Ice Beam
Items: Petaya Berry, Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
You can see that has higher stats on every stat except for Special Attack, being able to have a better deffensive profile while having a slightly better speed
(even with both being faster than most of the meta), both can be walled by the same mons but due to the crucial presence of Double-Edge on Huntail, it can deal
much better with special walls, while Gorebyss' higher SpA and lower bulk makes it better for Petaya Activation and gives it a important Edge in Power, so, to
prove my point, i made a lot of calculations to examine patterns and crucial info in this dynamic.
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Firstly, we need to examine the speed stat.
while Gorebyss ties with Deoxys and Deoxys-A, Huntail safely surpasses both, this is a interesting
trait to have since Deoxys can remove a huge chunk of their HP and is one of the prime revenge killers for then.
further analysis lead us to perceive that, on a 1v1 matchup on gen3 randombattles, Huntail will ALWAYS survive
Psycho Boosts from Deoxys-As from full HP while Gorebyss has 44% chance of being OHKO'ed by it
and knowing it as a tie, it leads to a 27.5% rate (80% miss rate of Hydro Pump divided by 2 (tie) divided by OHKO Rate) of losing in a 1v1 matchup AT FULL HP
in comparsion, against base Deoxys, both can't be OHKO'ed at full HP but Huntail's speed makes it the winning one always.
Electrode is outsped by Huntail and outspeeds Gorebyss, Electrode can't OHKO any of them but, with 1 spike up, it has a good chance (31%) of OHKOing Gorebyss
(Petaya Set), while it needs 3 spikes to safely (75% chance) OHKO non-leftovers Huntail.
Ninjask, Deoxys-S and any swift swimmer faster than Huntail will ALWAYS outspeed BOTH, so the speed analysis is not necessary.
Now i'll just pass over some salac users.
Charizard: 316 speed (outspeeds both)
Pinsir: 286 speed (outspeeds both)
Beedrill: 273 speed (outspeeds Gorebyss is outsped by Huntail)
Blaziken: 267 speed (outsped by both)
Dodrio: 316 speed (outspeeds both)
Feraligatr:268 speed (outsped by both)
Furret: 314 speed (outspeeds both)
Gligar: 286 speed (outspeeds both)
Heracross: 273 speed (outspeeds Gorebyss is outsped by Huntail)
Hitmonlee: 291 speed (outspeeds both)
Kingler: 273 speed (outspeeds Gorebyss is outsped by Huntail)
Linoone: 324 speed (outspeeds both)
Primeape: 312 speed (outspeeds both)
Poliwrath: 249 speed (outsped by both)
Raticate: 331 speed (outspeeds both)
Sandslash: 235 speed (outsped by both)
Scizor: 229 speed (outsped by both)
Vigoroth: 313 speed (outspeeds both)
Zangoose: 292 speed (outspeeds both)
the only different results are with Beedrill and Heracross (and Kingler, that i will explain in the final part), of which, the matchups are the following:
Heracross Megahorn vs. Gorebyss: 115-136 (50 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO from Full HP
Gorebyss Hydro Pump vs. Heracross: 194-229 (74.9 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO from Full HP
Heracross Megahorn vs. Huntail: 110-130 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO from Full HP
Huntail Hydro Pump vs. Heracross: 186-219 (71.8 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO from Full HP
(all Heracross in random battles have Guts so i don't need to factor Swarm boost)
while Heracross takes more damage from both than it does, due to the requirements of a salac (25% HP), the number of hits it can take will be always the same
(1 if no sub or 2 if sub) but, since Huntail will always go first, it will always have an extra hit (sub) or will safely KO Heracross without taking damage (no sub).
Huntail has a way better matchup due to it's speed and bulk. Additionally,if a SD is set, Gorebyss is dead 79% of the time (94% KO chance x Megahorn accuracy)
while Huntail, by going first and having better bulk, dies only 34% of the times (Hydro Pump accuracy x 54% KO chance x Megahorn accuracy).
Beedrill Hidden Power Bug vs. Gorebyss: 169-199 (73.4 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gorebyss Ice Beam vs. Beedrill: 72-85 (27.9 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO from 25% HP (salac range)
Beedrill Hidden Power Bug vs. Huntail: 161-190 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Huntail Ice Beam vs. Beedrill: 68-81 (26.3 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO from 25% HP (salac range)
or
Huntail Double-Edge vs. Beedrill: 147-173 (56.9 - 67%) -- guaranteed OHKO from 25% HP (salac range)
(It's important to know that HP Bug is favored against sludge bomb in this scenario due to Beedrill's Swarm Ability)
Huntail will always KO Beedrill without taking a hit while Gorebyss will always take a hit (which can be used to activate Petaya Berry). This matchup is interesting
since Huntail is always the safer alternative but having Gorebyss in Petaya range is one of the most dangerous win conditions on gen3 randombattles meta.
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since i did a mention about Petaya, let's talk about defensive characteristics.
let's pit them against the premier special walls from the meta.
-Snorlax Matchup-
Huntail: will almost always not 2HKO while CB Snorlax will have a low (10%) chance of 2HKOing it but, due to the speed, Huntail will always have an extra hit
(unless body slam paralysis occours), the matchup is fairly balanced between them and can go either way based on luck. Huntail will always 3HKO leftovers Snorlax
while Snorlax can only win the matchup with paralysis luck.
Gorebyss: will 2HKO CB Snorlax 1/4 of the time with a low margin of chance of 2HKOing always if no paralysis is put and Snorlax activates Gorebyss' Petaya. On
Leftovers Snorlax, while there's an easier Petaya activation, the chance of paralysis is way higher and the Leftovers recovery doesn't really help.
both matchups seem pretty gambly for me so i can't really pick one of them without putting some annoying probability calculations.
-Blissey Matchup-
Huntail: can 2HKO it using Double-Edge but it's risky and NEEDS prediction since if you don't hit Blissey on the switch Blissey can just soft-boil ad infinitum
killing you by your own recoil, if the prediction is well-made you can lure a Blissey by making the opponent think you will Hydro Pump and then 2HKO it easily.
Huntail is useful for picking up damaged Blisseys too.
Gorebyss: just don't, the max you can do is 32.2% with a Hydro Pump powered by Petaya in Rain and Blissey will just ignore the hit.
-Lugia Matchup-
Huntail: has small chances (8%) of 2HKOing it with Hydro Pump on Rain but if the Lugia has a Thunderbolt set, it can safely put it on Petaya Range, making it
somewhat capable of dealing with it, altough the situation is generally on Lugia's favor.
Gorebyss: has higher chances (57%) of 2HKOing Lugia but takes way more damage from Thunderbolt making the petaya activation strategy only viable on physical
Lugia Sets (or at least on sets without thunderbolt), if Petaya is active, Gorebyss can safely outdamage Lugia's recover until it's dead.
-Regice Matchup-
Huntail: can prey on Chesto Regice's Predictions by using Hydro Pump well (i.e. by a regice user who don't know the right calcs) but a guaranteed 3HKO with Hydro Pump
is not that good of a matchup considering Thunderbolt will take up to 63% of your HP and toxic stall is viable, if you get a lucky petaya activation
the situation is easier but not by much since you'll be next to dead when it happens.
Gorebyss: has similar odds both offensively and defensively speaking but still struggle with Regice, may work a little better on leftovers sets.
-Blastoise Matchup-
Huntail: 90% odds of 3HKOing can be pretty safe to deal rest-talk sets but you can get pretty rekt if Blastoise has Toxic (it often does), Petaya is way more
useful against it than against Regice, having 84% of 2HKO chance making it safely able to wallbreak it.
Gorebyss: a 100% chance of 3HKO is nicer since it's able to better deal with leftovers sets which make Huntail's strategies less-useful, having a bit more sp. attack
is nice for the Petaya Activation that can lead to a 98% chance of 2HKO and a better variety since it can run either HP Electric or Grass while Huntail only runs
HP Grass.
-Milotic Matchup-
Huntail: Double-Edge actually does more damage than HP Grass if Marvel Scale is not active. Even tough, 3HKOing a defensive mon with a recoil move is not
that viable, you'll die to chip damage from toxic and the recoil, don't do that unless it is the least worse thing to do.
Gorebyss: HP grass/electric can barely take 30% of it's Health, you'll probably die to Chip damage, it's a no-no.
-Vaporeon Matchup-
Huntail: Double-Edge does more damage than HP Grass so you'll be using it but only if you can safely predict if the player is going to stall you with
Wish+Protect or try to make you die faster with Surf + Protect, in the second case you can beat it, but don't try the first because you can't win
against that stall.
Gorebyss: You will always 4HKO it with HP grass/electric but, as in Milotic Case, you'll probably die to chip damage. Petaya can make it a 3HKO case but
it's still not safe on most cases.
-Suicune Matchup-
Huntail: HP grass will almost never 3HKO suicune and Suicune will set up on you or roar/toxic you, don't do that.
Gorebyss: HP grass/electric can give a bit more damage than Huntail's but it's still worthless against Calm Mind Suicune. if Petaya is active you can
try to get a 2HKO but it may be risky.
-Swampert Matchup-
Huntail: HP grass 2 times or try to mix a HP-Grass and a Hydro-Pump/Ice Beam if you feel confident that your opponent will switch.
You can always KO it with HP Grass under Petaya.
Gorebyss: Same setup as Huntail but you may have HP electric and, if you have it, you'll need to resort to Hydro Pump, who can safely 2HKO it on rain
but may miss due to 80% accuracy.
-Quagsire Matchup-
Huntail: HP grass will always 2HKO it, you can try to mix it with another coverage move to try to predict switches, just don't Hydro Pump Quagsire.
Gorebyss: Quagsire almost Hard-counters HP electric Gorebyss but you can go well with ice beam on it due to your speed, you just need luck.
there's also a different type of check i wanna talk about and it is Umbreon, Umbreon will almost always be 2HKO'ed by Gorebyss if you let it get hit
but Umbreon is special, similar to Vaporeon, it can Wish + Protect and then pray on the Rain Dance cooldown (5 turns) to try toxic it and then let
the chip damage slowly KO then. This may not work if the rain is permanent but permanent rain only occours if Kyogre's on the field.
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Defensive utility
let's pitch then against some attacks made by mons who can hit it at least one time to see how they react differently.
-Zapdos' Thunderbolt-
Zapdos Always survives a non-petaya hydro pump from both and it's thunderbolt deals the following damages.
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Huntail: 226-266 (94.1 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (somewhat safely stops Huntail's Sweep)
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Gorebyss: 236-278 (102.6 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Huntail, by analysis, is always safer than Gorebyss (who always die) in this case and can even activate petaya by a low-roll thunderbolt but it's still
not recommended).
-Kyogre's Thunder-
You shouldn't pitch then against Kyogre but just in case of you wanting to finish it, you'll see:
Kyogre Thunder vs. Huntail: 197-232 (82 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (which means you can counter a low-HP Kyogre with a Huntail)
Kyogre Thunder vs. Gorebyss: 207-244 (90 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (significant but low odd of killing your Gorebyss)
Huntail is always better than Gorebyss and can be used even to pivot and counter Low-HP Kyogre so it shows a very useful niche at dealing with the most
dangerous mon in the meta, not only that, but Kyogre's Thunder will always put Huntail in Petaya range, making it able to always end Kyogres with 41% or less HP)
-Raikou's Thunderbolt-
Raikou Thunderbolt vs. Huntail: 215-254 (89.5 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (same odds as Gorebyss vs. Kyogre)
Raikou Thunderbolt vs. Gorebyss: 226-266 (98.2 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (unsafe odds, shouldn't gamble for a 12.5% survival odd)
both can't counter Raikou, take significant damage and can be OHKO by it but Huntail can still be used as emergency stopgap against Raikou, even not being great.
-Sceptile's Leaf Blade + Petaya Variant-
Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. Huntail: 149-176 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (can be used to counter spectiles with less than 60% HP somewhat well)
+1 Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. Huntail: 221-260 (92 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (unsafe)
Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. Gorebyss: 154-182 (66.9 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (can be used to counter spectiles with less than 65% HP somewhat well)
+1 Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. Gorebyss: 231-272 (100.4 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I think it's generally more useful to be able to do a bit more damage on non-Petaya Sceptile than being able to not die to petaya Sceptile 50% of the time
so Gorebyss won this one imo.
-Gengar's Thunderbolt-
Gengar Thunderbolt vs. Huntail: 156-184 (65 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gengar Thunderbolt vs. Gorebyss: 163-192 (70.8 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gengar has the same odds of KOing then and both can be used to counter Gengar (both can safely 1HKO Gengar without petaya) but Gorebyss is more useful since
it can get into Petaya Range more easily.
-Cacturne's Needle Arm + Petaya Variant-
Cacturne Needle Arm vs. Huntail: 159-188 (66.2 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 Cacturne Needle Arm vs. Huntail: 239-282 (99.5 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Cacturne Needle Arm vs. Gorebyss: 168-198 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 Cacturne Needle Arm vs. Gorebyss: 249-294 (108.2 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Odds aren't that different but Gorebyss is still preferred since it get's it's petaya WAY more often with non-petaya Neeedle Arm.
-Slaking's Double Edge-
Choice Band Slaking Double-Edge vs. Huntail: 207-244 (86.2 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (great survival odds)
Choice Band Slaking Double-Edge vs. Gorebyss: 216-255 (93.9 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (bad survival odds)
Huntail is always preferred even tough both can KO Slaking Back in case of survival since Truant.
-Slaking's Return-
Choice Band Slaking Return vs. Huntail: 176-208 (73.3 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Choice Band Slaking Return vs. Gorebyss: 184-217 (80 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Both survive but Huntail still tanks a little bit more, both still can KO it back.
-Groudon's Swords Dance Earthquake-
Not recommended but if you wanna set rain dance on the turn that Groudon sets SD you can still do some crazy things
+2 Groudon Earthquake vs. Huntail: 191-225 (79.5 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 Groudon Earthquake vs. Gorebyss: 198-234 (86 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Huntail is preferrable, tough not by much, both of then can 1HKO Groudon on Rain and 2HKO on Sun.
-Choice Band Salamence's HP Flying-
Choice Band Salamence Hidden Power Flying vs. Huntail: 102-121 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
Choice Band Salamence Hidden Power Flying vs. Gorebyss: 107-126 (46.5 - 54.7%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO
both can 1HKO Salamence with Ice Beam but only Huntail can safely counter it (taking 1 HP Flying on the switch and 1 HP flying while setting dance or attacking),
Gorebyss can still, altough badly, be used as a stopgap.
-Electabuzz's Thunderbolt
Electabuzz Thunderbolt vs. Huntail: 195-230 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Electabuzz Thunderbolt vs. Gorebyss: 205-242 (89.1 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Huntail and Gorebyss (if it survives) will always be able to 1HKO Electabuzz with Rain Hydro Pump boosted by Petaya but Gorebyss will be unable to do it 31.3% of the
time so it's not viable as a revenge killer while Huntail is.
-Celebi's Calm Mind Boosted HP Grass-
+1 Celebi Hidden Power Grass vs. Huntail: 209-246 (87 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+1 Celebi Hidden Power Grass vs. Gorebyss: 219-258 (95.2 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
both will be at Petaya Range ALWAYS and both can dish around 40-50% of Celebi's Health, Huntail is way more bulky so it'll survive more frequently to the hits.
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Before we end, i just wanna show some speed comparsion with some dragon dancers and agility users, i did this for salac users in the beggining
but i just noticed now that i forgot this important part.
+1 spe Altaria: 274 (outspeeds Gorebyss is outsped by Huntail)
+1 spe Charizard: 316 (same as salaczard)
+1 spe Dragonite: 267 (outsped by both)
+1 spe Farfetch'd: 312 (outspeeds both)
+1 spe Gyarados: 264 (outsped by both)
+2 spe Metagross: 316 (outspeeds both)
+2 spe Scizor: 306 (outspeeds both)
+1 spe Tyranitar: 216 (outsped by both)
+2 spe Tyranitar: 288 (outspeeds both)
+2 spe Omastar: 282 (outspeeds Gorebyss is outsped by Huntail)
-Altaria Matchup-
+1 Altaria Hidden Power Flying vs. Huntail: 67-79 (27.9 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 Altaria Hidden Power Flying vs. Gorebyss: 69-82 (30 - 35.6%) -- 31.5% chance to 3HKO
and
Huntail Ice Beam vs. Altaria: 234-276 (89.3 - 105.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Gorebyss Ice Beam vs. Altaria: 244-288 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
altough Gorebyss has almost the double of the OHKO rates, due to the speed tier, it will always be less safe than Huntail since it will take one guaranteed hit
from altaria, while Huntail has a 37% chance of not taking any damage.
-Omastar Matchup-
Huntail Hidden Power Grass vs. Omastar: 234-276 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Gorebyss Hidden Power Grass vs. Omastar: 244-288 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Omastar Hidden Power Grass vs. Huntail: 112-132 (46.6 - 55%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO
Omastar Hidden Power Grass vs. Gorebyss: 117-138 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Omastar will win against Gorebyss 25% of the times (with a guaranteed hit on it) and will never win against Huntail (with 50% of chance of hitting it once)
Huntail is better in this case.
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Important Exceptions
Golduck: Cloud Nine removes the effects of the weather while on the field
Rayquaza: Air Lock removes the effects of the weather while on the field
Groudon: Drought removes the Rain effect and switches it for Sun
Kabutops: Swift Swim doubles it's speed, avoiding it being outsped by the two fishes
Mantine: Swift Swim doubls it's speed too, it is faster than both.
Ludicolo: Same as above
Kingdra: Same as above
Relicanth: Same as above
Seaking: Same as above
Luvdisc: Same as above
Qwilfish: if it's a Swift Swim variant, same as above.
Porygon2: Trace makes it have Swift Swim and with 142 speed it ties with Huntail.
Gardevoir: Trace makes it have Swift Swim.
Kingler Addendum:
Kingler outspeeds Gorebyss and is outsped by Huntail after a Salac Boost
Huntail Hidden Power Grass vs. Kingler: 141-166 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gorebyss Hidden Power Electric vs. Kingler: 147-174 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Kingler Double-Edge vs. Huntail: 90-107 (37.5 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Kingler Double-Edge vs. Gorebyss: 95-112 (41.3 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 Kingler Double-Edge vs. Huntail: 180-212 (75 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (altough Kingler will die due to recoil)
+2 Kingler Double-Edge vs. Gorebyss: 188-222 (81.7 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (altough Kingler will die due to recoil)
Kingler outspeeds Gorebyss so it will always take one hit while Huntail can finish Salac Kingler safely, not only this but Huntail can survive a +2 double-edge from
Kingler with 1 spike up always, while Gorebyss can't do that always.
Huntail is safer and better.
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Conclusion
Huntail's better speed makes for a way more survivable pokemon, with some crucial matchups, like the Deoxys-A and the many salac berry users, dragon dancers and
agility users being unable to outspeed Huntail while being able to outspeed Gorebyss.
Usually Huntail is more versatile, being able to attack by the physical side and having a playstyle that rewards skill way more than luck, but, due to this, the
Huntail player needs to be more skilled to properly predict switches.
With Petaya Berry being easier to activate on Gorebyss, it can better sweep, since it's power level is enough to 1HKO much of the offensive mons using it STAB, but
due to it's lower bulk and speed, it becomes more Luck-Based and overall a less reliable pokemon, it can grab some 2HKOs on walls that Huntail may struggle but it's
more proper for pokemon with High HP low SpD since the SpA difference is more visible on those cases.
Huntail has significantly different matchups against the following:
Deoxys (Attack and Base), Heracross, Beedrill, Snorlax, Blissey, Vaporeon, Swampert, Quagsire, Kyogre, Sceptile, Slaking, Salamence, Altaria, Omastar and Kingler.
I'm impressed with Huntail, previously i tought it was way worse than Gorebyss due to the lower SpA but now it makes me see Swift Swim as a more reliable strat on
this meta, i still don't think that they aren't that easily comparable to the other Swift Swimmers so i only did the comparsion between the two, but i can see a
viability ranking being made between all of them, since they are a good niche on this meta and are able to easily solo teams, with the right support and luck.
Many people wrongly assume that Gorebyss and Huntail battle somewhat the same and, while their niche is very similar (Swift Swim Sweeper), by looking at their stats
you can see that they can act very differently.
Gorebyss:
HP: 230
ATK: 188
DEF: 225
SPA: 239 (359 after petaya)
SPD: 174
SPE: 136 (272 in rain)
Moveset: Rain Dance, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, HP Grass/Electric
Items: Petaya Berry, Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
Huntail:
HP: 240
ATK: 232
DEF: 235
SPA: 215 (323 after petaya)
SPD: 182
SPE: 142 (284 in rain)
Moveset: Rain Dance, Hydro Pump, HP Grass, Double-Edge/Ice Beam
Items: Petaya Berry, Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
You can see that has higher stats on every stat except for Special Attack, being able to have a better deffensive profile while having a slightly better speed
(even with both being faster than most of the meta), both can be walled by the same mons but due to the crucial presence of Double-Edge on Huntail, it can deal
much better with special walls, while Gorebyss' higher SpA and lower bulk makes it better for Petaya Activation and gives it a important Edge in Power, so, to
prove my point, i made a lot of calculations to examine patterns and crucial info in this dynamic.
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Firstly, we need to examine the speed stat.
while Gorebyss ties with Deoxys and Deoxys-A, Huntail safely surpasses both, this is a interesting
trait to have since Deoxys can remove a huge chunk of their HP and is one of the prime revenge killers for then.
further analysis lead us to perceive that, on a 1v1 matchup on gen3 randombattles, Huntail will ALWAYS survive
Psycho Boosts from Deoxys-As from full HP while Gorebyss has 44% chance of being OHKO'ed by it
and knowing it as a tie, it leads to a 27.5% rate (80% miss rate of Hydro Pump divided by 2 (tie) divided by OHKO Rate) of losing in a 1v1 matchup AT FULL HP
in comparsion, against base Deoxys, both can't be OHKO'ed at full HP but Huntail's speed makes it the winning one always.
Electrode is outsped by Huntail and outspeeds Gorebyss, Electrode can't OHKO any of them but, with 1 spike up, it has a good chance (31%) of OHKOing Gorebyss
(Petaya Set), while it needs 3 spikes to safely (75% chance) OHKO non-leftovers Huntail.
Ninjask, Deoxys-S and any swift swimmer faster than Huntail will ALWAYS outspeed BOTH, so the speed analysis is not necessary.
Now i'll just pass over some salac users.
Charizard: 316 speed (outspeeds both)
Pinsir: 286 speed (outspeeds both)
Beedrill: 273 speed (outspeeds Gorebyss is outsped by Huntail)
Blaziken: 267 speed (outsped by both)
Dodrio: 316 speed (outspeeds both)
Feraligatr:268 speed (outsped by both)
Furret: 314 speed (outspeeds both)
Gligar: 286 speed (outspeeds both)
Heracross: 273 speed (outspeeds Gorebyss is outsped by Huntail)
Hitmonlee: 291 speed (outspeeds both)
Kingler: 273 speed (outspeeds Gorebyss is outsped by Huntail)
Linoone: 324 speed (outspeeds both)
Primeape: 312 speed (outspeeds both)
Poliwrath: 249 speed (outsped by both)
Raticate: 331 speed (outspeeds both)
Sandslash: 235 speed (outsped by both)
Scizor: 229 speed (outsped by both)
Vigoroth: 313 speed (outspeeds both)
Zangoose: 292 speed (outspeeds both)
the only different results are with Beedrill and Heracross (and Kingler, that i will explain in the final part), of which, the matchups are the following:
Heracross Megahorn vs. Gorebyss: 115-136 (50 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO from Full HP
Gorebyss Hydro Pump vs. Heracross: 194-229 (74.9 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO from Full HP
Heracross Megahorn vs. Huntail: 110-130 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO from Full HP
Huntail Hydro Pump vs. Heracross: 186-219 (71.8 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO from Full HP
(all Heracross in random battles have Guts so i don't need to factor Swarm boost)
while Heracross takes more damage from both than it does, due to the requirements of a salac (25% HP), the number of hits it can take will be always the same
(1 if no sub or 2 if sub) but, since Huntail will always go first, it will always have an extra hit (sub) or will safely KO Heracross without taking damage (no sub).
Huntail has a way better matchup due to it's speed and bulk. Additionally,if a SD is set, Gorebyss is dead 79% of the time (94% KO chance x Megahorn accuracy)
while Huntail, by going first and having better bulk, dies only 34% of the times (Hydro Pump accuracy x 54% KO chance x Megahorn accuracy).
Beedrill Hidden Power Bug vs. Gorebyss: 169-199 (73.4 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gorebyss Ice Beam vs. Beedrill: 72-85 (27.9 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO from 25% HP (salac range)
Beedrill Hidden Power Bug vs. Huntail: 161-190 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Huntail Ice Beam vs. Beedrill: 68-81 (26.3 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO from 25% HP (salac range)
or
Huntail Double-Edge vs. Beedrill: 147-173 (56.9 - 67%) -- guaranteed OHKO from 25% HP (salac range)
(It's important to know that HP Bug is favored against sludge bomb in this scenario due to Beedrill's Swarm Ability)
Huntail will always KO Beedrill without taking a hit while Gorebyss will always take a hit (which can be used to activate Petaya Berry). This matchup is interesting
since Huntail is always the safer alternative but having Gorebyss in Petaya range is one of the most dangerous win conditions on gen3 randombattles meta.
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since i did a mention about Petaya, let's talk about defensive characteristics.
let's pit them against the premier special walls from the meta.
-Snorlax Matchup-
Huntail: will almost always not 2HKO while CB Snorlax will have a low (10%) chance of 2HKOing it but, due to the speed, Huntail will always have an extra hit
(unless body slam paralysis occours), the matchup is fairly balanced between them and can go either way based on luck. Huntail will always 3HKO leftovers Snorlax
while Snorlax can only win the matchup with paralysis luck.
Gorebyss: will 2HKO CB Snorlax 1/4 of the time with a low margin of chance of 2HKOing always if no paralysis is put and Snorlax activates Gorebyss' Petaya. On
Leftovers Snorlax, while there's an easier Petaya activation, the chance of paralysis is way higher and the Leftovers recovery doesn't really help.
both matchups seem pretty gambly for me so i can't really pick one of them without putting some annoying probability calculations.
-Blissey Matchup-
Huntail: can 2HKO it using Double-Edge but it's risky and NEEDS prediction since if you don't hit Blissey on the switch Blissey can just soft-boil ad infinitum
killing you by your own recoil, if the prediction is well-made you can lure a Blissey by making the opponent think you will Hydro Pump and then 2HKO it easily.
Huntail is useful for picking up damaged Blisseys too.
Gorebyss: just don't, the max you can do is 32.2% with a Hydro Pump powered by Petaya in Rain and Blissey will just ignore the hit.
-Lugia Matchup-
Huntail: has small chances (8%) of 2HKOing it with Hydro Pump on Rain but if the Lugia has a Thunderbolt set, it can safely put it on Petaya Range, making it
somewhat capable of dealing with it, altough the situation is generally on Lugia's favor.
Gorebyss: has higher chances (57%) of 2HKOing Lugia but takes way more damage from Thunderbolt making the petaya activation strategy only viable on physical
Lugia Sets (or at least on sets without thunderbolt), if Petaya is active, Gorebyss can safely outdamage Lugia's recover until it's dead.
-Regice Matchup-
Huntail: can prey on Chesto Regice's Predictions by using Hydro Pump well (i.e. by a regice user who don't know the right calcs) but a guaranteed 3HKO with Hydro Pump
is not that good of a matchup considering Thunderbolt will take up to 63% of your HP and toxic stall is viable, if you get a lucky petaya activation
the situation is easier but not by much since you'll be next to dead when it happens.
Gorebyss: has similar odds both offensively and defensively speaking but still struggle with Regice, may work a little better on leftovers sets.
-Blastoise Matchup-
Huntail: 90% odds of 3HKOing can be pretty safe to deal rest-talk sets but you can get pretty rekt if Blastoise has Toxic (it often does), Petaya is way more
useful against it than against Regice, having 84% of 2HKO chance making it safely able to wallbreak it.
Gorebyss: a 100% chance of 3HKO is nicer since it's able to better deal with leftovers sets which make Huntail's strategies less-useful, having a bit more sp. attack
is nice for the Petaya Activation that can lead to a 98% chance of 2HKO and a better variety since it can run either HP Electric or Grass while Huntail only runs
HP Grass.
-Milotic Matchup-
Huntail: Double-Edge actually does more damage than HP Grass if Marvel Scale is not active. Even tough, 3HKOing a defensive mon with a recoil move is not
that viable, you'll die to chip damage from toxic and the recoil, don't do that unless it is the least worse thing to do.
Gorebyss: HP grass/electric can barely take 30% of it's Health, you'll probably die to Chip damage, it's a no-no.
-Vaporeon Matchup-
Huntail: Double-Edge does more damage than HP Grass so you'll be using it but only if you can safely predict if the player is going to stall you with
Wish+Protect or try to make you die faster with Surf + Protect, in the second case you can beat it, but don't try the first because you can't win
against that stall.
Gorebyss: You will always 4HKO it with HP grass/electric but, as in Milotic Case, you'll probably die to chip damage. Petaya can make it a 3HKO case but
it's still not safe on most cases.
-Suicune Matchup-
Huntail: HP grass will almost never 3HKO suicune and Suicune will set up on you or roar/toxic you, don't do that.
Gorebyss: HP grass/electric can give a bit more damage than Huntail's but it's still worthless against Calm Mind Suicune. if Petaya is active you can
try to get a 2HKO but it may be risky.
-Swampert Matchup-
Huntail: HP grass 2 times or try to mix a HP-Grass and a Hydro-Pump/Ice Beam if you feel confident that your opponent will switch.
You can always KO it with HP Grass under Petaya.
Gorebyss: Same setup as Huntail but you may have HP electric and, if you have it, you'll need to resort to Hydro Pump, who can safely 2HKO it on rain
but may miss due to 80% accuracy.
-Quagsire Matchup-
Huntail: HP grass will always 2HKO it, you can try to mix it with another coverage move to try to predict switches, just don't Hydro Pump Quagsire.
Gorebyss: Quagsire almost Hard-counters HP electric Gorebyss but you can go well with ice beam on it due to your speed, you just need luck.
there's also a different type of check i wanna talk about and it is Umbreon, Umbreon will almost always be 2HKO'ed by Gorebyss if you let it get hit
but Umbreon is special, similar to Vaporeon, it can Wish + Protect and then pray on the Rain Dance cooldown (5 turns) to try toxic it and then let
the chip damage slowly KO then. This may not work if the rain is permanent but permanent rain only occours if Kyogre's on the field.
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Defensive utility
let's pitch then against some attacks made by mons who can hit it at least one time to see how they react differently.
-Zapdos' Thunderbolt-
Zapdos Always survives a non-petaya hydro pump from both and it's thunderbolt deals the following damages.
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Huntail: 226-266 (94.1 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (somewhat safely stops Huntail's Sweep)
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Gorebyss: 236-278 (102.6 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Huntail, by analysis, is always safer than Gorebyss (who always die) in this case and can even activate petaya by a low-roll thunderbolt but it's still
not recommended).
-Kyogre's Thunder-
You shouldn't pitch then against Kyogre but just in case of you wanting to finish it, you'll see:
Kyogre Thunder vs. Huntail: 197-232 (82 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (which means you can counter a low-HP Kyogre with a Huntail)
Kyogre Thunder vs. Gorebyss: 207-244 (90 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (significant but low odd of killing your Gorebyss)
Huntail is always better than Gorebyss and can be used even to pivot and counter Low-HP Kyogre so it shows a very useful niche at dealing with the most
dangerous mon in the meta, not only that, but Kyogre's Thunder will always put Huntail in Petaya range, making it able to always end Kyogres with 41% or less HP)
-Raikou's Thunderbolt-
Raikou Thunderbolt vs. Huntail: 215-254 (89.5 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (same odds as Gorebyss vs. Kyogre)
Raikou Thunderbolt vs. Gorebyss: 226-266 (98.2 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (unsafe odds, shouldn't gamble for a 12.5% survival odd)
both can't counter Raikou, take significant damage and can be OHKO by it but Huntail can still be used as emergency stopgap against Raikou, even not being great.
-Sceptile's Leaf Blade + Petaya Variant-
Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. Huntail: 149-176 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (can be used to counter spectiles with less than 60% HP somewhat well)
+1 Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. Huntail: 221-260 (92 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (unsafe)
Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. Gorebyss: 154-182 (66.9 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (can be used to counter spectiles with less than 65% HP somewhat well)
+1 Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. Gorebyss: 231-272 (100.4 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I think it's generally more useful to be able to do a bit more damage on non-Petaya Sceptile than being able to not die to petaya Sceptile 50% of the time
so Gorebyss won this one imo.
-Gengar's Thunderbolt-
Gengar Thunderbolt vs. Huntail: 156-184 (65 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gengar Thunderbolt vs. Gorebyss: 163-192 (70.8 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gengar has the same odds of KOing then and both can be used to counter Gengar (both can safely 1HKO Gengar without petaya) but Gorebyss is more useful since
it can get into Petaya Range more easily.
-Cacturne's Needle Arm + Petaya Variant-
Cacturne Needle Arm vs. Huntail: 159-188 (66.2 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 Cacturne Needle Arm vs. Huntail: 239-282 (99.5 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Cacturne Needle Arm vs. Gorebyss: 168-198 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 Cacturne Needle Arm vs. Gorebyss: 249-294 (108.2 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Odds aren't that different but Gorebyss is still preferred since it get's it's petaya WAY more often with non-petaya Neeedle Arm.
-Slaking's Double Edge-
Choice Band Slaking Double-Edge vs. Huntail: 207-244 (86.2 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (great survival odds)
Choice Band Slaking Double-Edge vs. Gorebyss: 216-255 (93.9 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (bad survival odds)
Huntail is always preferred even tough both can KO Slaking Back in case of survival since Truant.
-Slaking's Return-
Choice Band Slaking Return vs. Huntail: 176-208 (73.3 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Choice Band Slaking Return vs. Gorebyss: 184-217 (80 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Both survive but Huntail still tanks a little bit more, both still can KO it back.
-Groudon's Swords Dance Earthquake-
Not recommended but if you wanna set rain dance on the turn that Groudon sets SD you can still do some crazy things
+2 Groudon Earthquake vs. Huntail: 191-225 (79.5 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 Groudon Earthquake vs. Gorebyss: 198-234 (86 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Huntail is preferrable, tough not by much, both of then can 1HKO Groudon on Rain and 2HKO on Sun.
-Choice Band Salamence's HP Flying-
Choice Band Salamence Hidden Power Flying vs. Huntail: 102-121 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
Choice Band Salamence Hidden Power Flying vs. Gorebyss: 107-126 (46.5 - 54.7%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO
both can 1HKO Salamence with Ice Beam but only Huntail can safely counter it (taking 1 HP Flying on the switch and 1 HP flying while setting dance or attacking),
Gorebyss can still, altough badly, be used as a stopgap.
-Electabuzz's Thunderbolt
Electabuzz Thunderbolt vs. Huntail: 195-230 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Electabuzz Thunderbolt vs. Gorebyss: 205-242 (89.1 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Huntail and Gorebyss (if it survives) will always be able to 1HKO Electabuzz with Rain Hydro Pump boosted by Petaya but Gorebyss will be unable to do it 31.3% of the
time so it's not viable as a revenge killer while Huntail is.
-Celebi's Calm Mind Boosted HP Grass-
+1 Celebi Hidden Power Grass vs. Huntail: 209-246 (87 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+1 Celebi Hidden Power Grass vs. Gorebyss: 219-258 (95.2 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
both will be at Petaya Range ALWAYS and both can dish around 40-50% of Celebi's Health, Huntail is way more bulky so it'll survive more frequently to the hits.
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Before we end, i just wanna show some speed comparsion with some dragon dancers and agility users, i did this for salac users in the beggining
but i just noticed now that i forgot this important part.
+1 spe Altaria: 274 (outspeeds Gorebyss is outsped by Huntail)
+1 spe Charizard: 316 (same as salaczard)
+1 spe Dragonite: 267 (outsped by both)
+1 spe Farfetch'd: 312 (outspeeds both)
+1 spe Gyarados: 264 (outsped by both)
+2 spe Metagross: 316 (outspeeds both)
+2 spe Scizor: 306 (outspeeds both)
+1 spe Tyranitar: 216 (outsped by both)
+2 spe Tyranitar: 288 (outspeeds both)
+2 spe Omastar: 282 (outspeeds Gorebyss is outsped by Huntail)
-Altaria Matchup-
+1 Altaria Hidden Power Flying vs. Huntail: 67-79 (27.9 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 Altaria Hidden Power Flying vs. Gorebyss: 69-82 (30 - 35.6%) -- 31.5% chance to 3HKO
and
Huntail Ice Beam vs. Altaria: 234-276 (89.3 - 105.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Gorebyss Ice Beam vs. Altaria: 244-288 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
altough Gorebyss has almost the double of the OHKO rates, due to the speed tier, it will always be less safe than Huntail since it will take one guaranteed hit
from altaria, while Huntail has a 37% chance of not taking any damage.
-Omastar Matchup-
Huntail Hidden Power Grass vs. Omastar: 234-276 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Gorebyss Hidden Power Grass vs. Omastar: 244-288 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Omastar Hidden Power Grass vs. Huntail: 112-132 (46.6 - 55%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO
Omastar Hidden Power Grass vs. Gorebyss: 117-138 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Omastar will win against Gorebyss 25% of the times (with a guaranteed hit on it) and will never win against Huntail (with 50% of chance of hitting it once)
Huntail is better in this case.
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Important Exceptions
Golduck: Cloud Nine removes the effects of the weather while on the field
Rayquaza: Air Lock removes the effects of the weather while on the field
Groudon: Drought removes the Rain effect and switches it for Sun
Kabutops: Swift Swim doubles it's speed, avoiding it being outsped by the two fishes
Mantine: Swift Swim doubls it's speed too, it is faster than both.
Ludicolo: Same as above
Kingdra: Same as above
Relicanth: Same as above
Seaking: Same as above
Luvdisc: Same as above
Qwilfish: if it's a Swift Swim variant, same as above.
Porygon2: Trace makes it have Swift Swim and with 142 speed it ties with Huntail.
Gardevoir: Trace makes it have Swift Swim.
Kingler Addendum:
Kingler outspeeds Gorebyss and is outsped by Huntail after a Salac Boost
Huntail Hidden Power Grass vs. Kingler: 141-166 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gorebyss Hidden Power Electric vs. Kingler: 147-174 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Kingler Double-Edge vs. Huntail: 90-107 (37.5 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Kingler Double-Edge vs. Gorebyss: 95-112 (41.3 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 Kingler Double-Edge vs. Huntail: 180-212 (75 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (altough Kingler will die due to recoil)
+2 Kingler Double-Edge vs. Gorebyss: 188-222 (81.7 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (altough Kingler will die due to recoil)
Kingler outspeeds Gorebyss so it will always take one hit while Huntail can finish Salac Kingler safely, not only this but Huntail can survive a +2 double-edge from
Kingler with 1 spike up always, while Gorebyss can't do that always.
Huntail is safer and better.
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Conclusion
Huntail's better speed makes for a way more survivable pokemon, with some crucial matchups, like the Deoxys-A and the many salac berry users, dragon dancers and
agility users being unable to outspeed Huntail while being able to outspeed Gorebyss.
Usually Huntail is more versatile, being able to attack by the physical side and having a playstyle that rewards skill way more than luck, but, due to this, the
Huntail player needs to be more skilled to properly predict switches.
With Petaya Berry being easier to activate on Gorebyss, it can better sweep, since it's power level is enough to 1HKO much of the offensive mons using it STAB, but
due to it's lower bulk and speed, it becomes more Luck-Based and overall a less reliable pokemon, it can grab some 2HKOs on walls that Huntail may struggle but it's
more proper for pokemon with High HP low SpD since the SpA difference is more visible on those cases.
Huntail has significantly different matchups against the following:
Deoxys (Attack and Base), Heracross, Beedrill, Snorlax, Blissey, Vaporeon, Swampert, Quagsire, Kyogre, Sceptile, Slaking, Salamence, Altaria, Omastar and Kingler.
I'm impressed with Huntail, previously i tought it was way worse than Gorebyss due to the lower SpA but now it makes me see Swift Swim as a more reliable strat on
this meta, i still don't think that they aren't that easily comparable to the other Swift Swimmers so i only did the comparsion between the two, but i can see a
viability ranking being made between all of them, since they are a good niche on this meta and are able to easily solo teams, with the right support and luck.
