Camerupt (Gen 4, full revamp)

[Yoshi King]

Hey guys, this is my first set contribution to Smogon and I really hope I do everything properly. I'm definitely open to suggestions to better the set, but what I'm currently using has worked incredibly well for me in UU so I would like to share it. I'm also considering revamping the entire Camerupt analysis for UU, since it seems somewhat outdated with suggested counters like Swampert and Suicune. If no one objects, I'd love to go ahead with this.

[SET]
name: Trick Room Sweeper
move 1: Eruption / Fire Blast
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Ancientpower / Rock Slide
move 4: Explosion
item: Passho Berry / Expert Belt
nature: Quiet
evs: 132 HP / 126 Atk / 252 SpA
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Under normal circumstances, Camerupt proves to be a challenge to sweep with in most battles due to its low base speed and fragile defenses. How do you turn that around? Set up Camerupt with Trick Room! With a base Speed of 40, many of Camerupt's faster threats are forced to flee in the face of its STAB attacks.</p>

<p>Eruption is the premiere sweeping move for this set- reaching a fairly impressive Special Attack stat of 339 with max EV investment, Camerupt can eliminate many opponents with a full-power STAB Eruption with just one or two hits. However, for those worried about potential entry hazards on the field that would reduce Eruption's base power, Fire Blast also makes an excellent choice for sweeping. Just be wary of Fire Blast's shaky accuracy.</p>

<p>Earth Power is the best choice for STAB Ground attacks, which will often be met with by common bulky waters such as Blastoise and Slowbro expecting a Fire-type attack. The chance of a Special Defense drop on incoming counters that resist Fire-type attack also makes this move a reliable choice when trying to out-play your opponent. </p>

<p>Ancientpower, while lacking STAB and suffering from a significantly lower base power than Earth Power and Eruption, makes a great choice for predicted Flying-type switch-ins, such as Moltres and Altaria (who resist both of Camerupt's other STAB attacks). The added chance of all stats being increased is welcome to Camerupt, who may be able to use the boost for other switch-ins, or to nab a 2-hit KO on an opponent that may have previously only been 3-hit KOd beforehand. In most cases, this will not affect Camerupt's ability to 'outspeed' its opponents under Trick Room, as an increased Speed statistic is still only 114 with the Nature and IVs provided (Plenty slower than the majority of UU opponents). If you prefer a slightly higher base power with the potential to flinch, Rock Slide also makes for an excellent sweeping choice. Like with Fire Blast, do be wary of the reduced accuracy of the move.</p>

<p>Explosion takes up the last moveslot- this allows Camerupt to exit with a bang against opponents that are giving your team trouble, or if you're on your last turn of Trick Room's effects and don't want to risk damage incurred by switching in the Trick Room-using members of the team. With the suggested EVs for attack, only defensively bulky Pokémon such as Umbreon that invest in max HP and Defense EVs will be able to survive.</p>

 

[jrrrrrrr]

I think Earthquake should definitely be an option, since you are using all of those Atk EVs anyways. You might want to actually stand a chance against Chansey without Exploding, after all.

I feel like Life Orb should definitely be an option, especially since Camerupt isn't weak to Stealth Rock and has plenty of chances to come in for free (Will-O-Wisps, Thunderbolts).

Also, I used HP Grass Camerupt in OU and it worked out fairly well...it might help somewhere here too to stop Gastrodon, Quagsire and unusually bulky Rhydons (lol) from crapping on this set.

 

[Heysup]

I actually personally think Life Orb should be the primary option, along with Fire Blast, mainly because "just Eruption" often doesn't cut it without some sort of boost. It should at least go over Expert Belt, imo.

However since you probably have more experience in new UU (I only used it very breifly in new UU), I trust your judgement.

I do have a question though, what exactly are those HP EVs for? Can they not be added into Attack allowing you to add Earthquake as an option?

Just a couple suggestions / questions.

 

[Yoshi King]

Haha thanks for those questions/input guys, I think I've decided I'm going to go all-out and revamp the Camerupt analysis for UU play. Using Earthquake as an option over Earth Power was something I wanted to address in my set options but I really didn't want a case of slash-itis, so I think what I'm going to do is make two "Trick Room Sweeper" sets (one focused on Sp. Attack and one focused on Attack), if that's acceptable. But all in all, I certainly do agree that Earthquake is a viable option and I wanted to include that in a set- I'll do that during my next update.

jrrrrrrr (Gay Dolphin lol), HP Grass was actually something I had never considered, but I'll certainly put it in set options. However, is it more effective than STAB Earth Power on Pokemon such as Slowbro that are only doubly weak to grass, as opposed to Gastrodon which is quadrouply weak? (To be more concise, does the x2 super-effectiveness outweigh STAB+higher base power?)

HeYsUp: my reasoning behind choosing Eruption over Fire Blast is not only the issue of accuracy (If Camerupt misses, it is finished as its defenses are absolutely pathetic) but also because it takes neutral damage to Stealth Rock- Even at 88% HP, Eruption is more powerful than Fire Blast, and Camerupt needs all the extra power it can get since its Sp. Attack stat leaves a little to be desired from a sweeper. Of course, Eruption+Life Orb is just counter-intuitive, but I do see the point you're trying to make.

Crap, another thing I didn't get to mention was the HP investment, I really need to get started on this whole revamp now. Basically, the HP investment + Passho berry + Solid Rock allows Camerupt to withstand slightly underpowered water attacks. It won't be surviving a Surf from Milotic, Blastoise or Slowbro, but something I'm quite impressed with is that Passho berry allows Camerupt to survive non-CB Azumarill's Aqua Jet and KO back with Explosion, where otherwise Azumarill could be free to sweep the rest of a team.

Thanks for the input thus far guys, I'm definitely looking forward to working on this now. If it's possible, would a moderator be able to change the topic title to include the "UU revamp"?

 

[Payo]

I dunno about UU, but in OU Camerupt is a great initial switch after a trick room suicide (in an OHKOs a load of things quite nicely sort of way), so you might wanna point that out.

In that vein, passho berry's not gonna help much in OU against the likes of a Gyarados waterfall or a rain Kingdra's surf, so expert belt (or even wise glasses) is a much better option. Life Orb is a pretty bad option with eruption (which is a much better choice over fire blast, really) since it saps away at your best STAB's effectiveness.

Also in OU, HP Ice is a far better option than ancientpower or rock slide. Knowing that they've got to contend with strong fire and ground STAB, opponents switch in the likes of Salamence, Flygon and even Togekiss trying to take the hits and KO Camerupt; HPIce will hit them (especially the dragons) noticeably harder. HPGrass would leave you with a much harder time damaging things before Camerupt blows.

I dunno about the atk evs, mind. Explosion is strong enough to KO any non- rock- or steel-type or Blissey (who you'll get two turns against anyway, and any move then explosion will KO it), so unless you're running another physical attack there's not much point.

 

[Yoshi King]

Funnily enough, I've seen many different Pokemon survive Explosion in UU (Slowbro, sleeping Milotic and Umbreon come to mind) when I didn't have any attack EVs on this set. I'm going to try some more tweaking and see if the HP EVs investment is truly worth it to nab a 100% chance of an OHKO, because I'm certain that the extra attack will be appreciated against bulky waters who may otherwise survive.

 

[Payo]

That may be well and true, but like I said, "I dunno about UU". I was simply noting that the atk investment is not exactly necessary should you wish to use Camerupt in OU. I have never given it any, and in the majority of situations it comes out on top.

With it's STABs and HPIce, there are very few pokemon that pose too much of a problem large enough to warrant exploding. The only pokemon I can ever remember posing much of a problem are Blissey, Gyarados, Kingdra, Suicune, Swampert and Tentacruel, with Cresselia and Dusknoir sometimes making a pain of themselves. It seems like a long list, but considering that you could easily deal with the lot in them space of two other pokemon (plus, considering that Camerupt's not really going to have a hard time taking any but Cresselia and Dusknoir out with explosion makes it easier). Everything else is just cannon fodder to it.

Really, I don't think Camerupt has any business attempting to match up to bulky waters; if mine has less than 75% health left on the last turn of TR or up against a pokemon it can't KO, I have it detonate anyway. If not, Switch in a grass to take the surf and KO back with grass knot/energy ball.

 

[Mrobinson587]

I was playing around with a Choice Specs lead which plays entirely different than the regular Choice Specs. With the right EV's you can out speed and OHKO bulky leads such as Metagross Hippowdown Swampert and Heatran (Edit: you don't outspeed lead heatran with +speed nature) even through resist berries. I just need to tweak ev's to survive attacks from faster leads such as Infernape and Azelf. and see about making explosion as powerful as it can be. I should have it finished and tested by tomorrow. I'll work on some calcs here and see if I can get something done for you within the hour.

Edit: Link to post in Creative Movesets thread
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1949867&postcount=56

 

[diinbong]

<p>Eruption is the premiere sweeping move for this set; reaching a fairly impressive Special Attack stat of 339 with max EV investment, Camerupt can eliminate many opponents with a full-power STAB Eruption with just one or two hits. However, for those worried about potential entry hazards on the field that would reduce Eruption's base power, Fire Blast also makes an excellent choice for sweeping. Just be wary of Fire Blast's shaky accuracy.</p>

semicolon is more appropriate

<p>Earth Power is the best choice of STAB Ground attacks, which is used to hit common bulky Water-types such as Blastoise and Slowbro expecting a Fire-type attack. The chance of a Special Defense drop on incoming counters that resist Fire-type attacks also makes this move a reliable choice when trying to out-play your opponent.</p>

of>for (sounds better)
You had some weird phrasing in the second sentence, which I suggest be changed to the more simple version I highlighted.
Water-types>waters (always capitalized)
Plural "attacks" because Water-types resist all Fire-type attacks.
I removed the space in between the words and last tag.

<p>Ancientpower, while lacking STAB and suffering from a significantly lower base power than Earth Power and Eruption, makes a great choice for predicted Flying-type switch-ins, such as Moltres and Altaria (who resist both of Camerupt's other STAB attacks). The added chance of all stats being increased is welcome to Camerupt, who may be able to use the boost for other switch-ins, or to nab a 2HKO on an opponent that may have previously only been 3HKOed beforehand. In most cases, this will not affect Camerupt's ability to 'outspeed' its opponents under Trick Room, as an increased Speed statistic is still only 114 with the Nature and IVs provided (plenty slower than the majority of UU opponents). If you prefer a slightly higher base power with the potential to flinch, Rock Slide also makes for an excellent sweeping choice. Like with Fire Blast, do be wary of the reduced accuracy of the move.</p>

You can just say "2HKO" and "3HKO" rather than their full forms.
"plenty" should not be capitalized considering it isn't starting a sentence

<p>Explosion takes up the last moveslot. This allows Camerupt to exit with a bang against opponents that are giving your team trouble, or can be used (removed "if you're") on the last turn of Trick Room (removed "'s effects and") if you don't want to risk damage incurred by switching in the Trick Room user of the team. With the suggested EVs in Attack, only defensively bulky Pokémon such as Umbreon that invest in max HP and Defense EVs will be able to survive.</p>

separated the first sentence
I really cut the second sentence and added a few things to clarify.
stats are capitalized
I don't like the last sentence, really. Unless you run calcs for some Pokemon in UU, I wouldn't claim it will OHKO basically anything but Umbreon. Also, you forgot to mention it won't KO Pokemon resistant to it.

I think it's absolutely necessary for you to explain how to use this set; you really want to bring this in at the beginning of the match off a suicide Trick Roomer, otherwise Eruption isn't worth it. In my opinion, Fire Blast and Life Orb should be the main options anyway for improved damage output by all moves and for the ability to switch in on resists after a bulkier Trick Room user has set up for you.

Thanks! cheers

 

[Yoshi King]

Thanks for the spelling/grammar fixes Diinbong. Looks pretty bad on me making mistakes like that and being an English major in university, sigh.

Also, this thread is going to be a full revamp, because the analysis is fairly out of date with common counters and so on. I'll hopefully have some more edits done by the end of the weekend.

 

[Deleted User 28638]

jrrrrrrr (Gay Dolphin lol), HP Grass was actually something I had never considered, but I'll certainly put it in set options. However, is it more effective than STAB Earth Power on Pokemon such as Slowbro that are only doubly weak to grass, as opposed to Gastrodon which is quadrouply weak? (To be more concise, does the x2 super-effectiveness outweigh STAB+higher base power?)

A super effective 70 base power HP Grass on Slowbro does 140 base damage when super effective. Earth Power + STAB does 90 x 1.5 = 135 base damage. So HP Grass is slightly more effective than an STAB Earth Power on any Grass-weak threats (assuming they aren't also Ground-weak).

 

[Mrobinson587]

So update on the Anti-Bulky Lead Set
Here is another post in the Creative Thread with some more calcs and information.

Modest MUST be 252 Spe/252 SpA
Eruption should really only be considered with A Modest nature and only for Hippowdon.
---Modest specs eruption 74.36% to OHKO Hippowdon.
---Timid specs Eruption 20.51% to OHKO

Modest moveset should be
-Earth Power
-Lava Plume
-Hidden Power Grass
-Eruption

Making a Timid set will require more testing. With a Timid or +speed nature, I could probably give it some more bulk and or put some EV's into Explosion.

#1 teammate is Porygon2. It counters the Gyarados and Salamence that will so freely come in after you KO'd their bulky lead. Heatran (also countered by Porygon2) and Infernape like to come in on Eruptions and Lava Plumes so Pokemon like Vaporeon, Suicune, and Latias also make great teammates as they don't mind taking Water moves or Earthquakes. Tentacruel shares a weakness to ground but Camerupt can take Electric moves aimed at it.

Celebi resists both of Camerupt's weaknessess, can set up Stealth Rock and also be an additional counter to Gyarados

If the opponent is too eager to send out Blissey, you can stay in and scout Blissey's moveset as she will be unable to Thunderwave you, you don't really mind Toxic, and all of her standard attacking moves do little damage.

That is my early scouting report of that set so far.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Is this going to get finished?