Golduck (Gen 4, adding Mono-Attacker)

[Lee]

I used this set quite a bit a few months back but I'm not sure quite how effective it will be now that Shaymin and Crobat dominate. Still, I found it to be a very effective set so I'll throw it out so you guys can give your opinion. I haven't played UU since February so if it's completely useless now, don't be afraid to say so and we can throw it on the backburner until NU gathers steam or whatever.

It's quite similar to the standard set except you give up the luxury of a secondary attack for Substitute. However it's so difficult to obtain useful special coverage with Water + Secondary attack that I find this set has a much easier time sweeping than the standard one.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/golduck

[SET]
name: Mono-Attacker
move 1: Surf
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Calm Mind
move 4: Hypnosis
item: Leftovers
ability: Cloud Nine
nature: Timid
EVs: 44 HP / 232 SpA / 232 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p> This set attempts to make use of Golduck's above average defensive capabilities and support movepool to set himself up for a sweep. The initial idea is to use this Golduck in a similar vein to Calm Mind Mismagius - come in on something that will flee and use Substitute on the switch before attacking accordingly. Calm Mind is always an excellent move especially in conjunction with Substitute and Hypnosis gives you the ability to disable a problematic Pokemon allowing Golduck to set up easier, or just to give your incoming Pokemon a free switch. Surf is the obvious option for the sole attack due to STAB and good neutral coverage.</p>

<p>232 Special Attack EVs ensure that at +6 you'll be able to 2HKO a 0/252 Calm Chansey after Leftovers. It also allows you to 2HKO a 252/0 Milotic 90% of the time in the same circumstances. This is important as both of the aforementioned Pokemon are prime candidates for Golduck to begin his set up on. The Speed EVs and nature allow for 290 Speed, putting you just ahead of Yanmega. The remaining EVs are placed into HP to take better advantage of Golduck's often overlooked 80/78/80 defenses.</p>

<p>As is to be expected with Surf as his solitary attack, this variant of Golduck will run into problems with bulky Grass types, most notably Shaymin and Roserade who have the luxury of outrunning Golduck. Even though they have Natural Cure, Golduck will still be able to put them out of commission for at least a single turn with Hypnosis giving you a chance to get in your counter unscathed. That said, Hypnosis is notoriously unreliable so it's important to pack a good Shaymin counter such as Crobat who can also lure out Rock types and use U-turn to give Golduck a free turn to begin his set up. Obviously Water Absorb and Dry Skin Pokemon wall you effortlessly if they have a way to avoid Hypnosis but fortunately they very rarely do.</p>

Criticise, praise, mock, nitpick etc!

 

[yoshi!]

Calm Mind is always an excellent move, especially in conjunction with Substitute and Hypnosis gives you the ability to disable a problematic Pokemon allowing Golduck to set up easier, or just to give your incoming Pokemon a free switch.

Only thing I could find.

The wording (for me) seems a bit odd too. What would make sense for me is "especially with the combination of Substitute and Hypnosis, which allows you to easily set up Golduck by eliminating a problematic pokemon".

 

[wildfire393]

Some problems I have with this set:

Since Golduck does not have 100 base HP, it cannot get to 404 HP and thus cannot make 101 HP Subs. Since Chansey lacks Blissey's Special Attack, it ALWAYS runs Seismic Toss, making setting up on Chansey a tough proposal, as you do not get a turn to CM after subbing while Chansey struggles to break the Sub.

Additionally, the fact that there are multiple common Water Absorb/Dry Skin Pokemon in UU, running a Single Attack doesn't seem that great.

I would suggest at best making this an "other options", like "Sub can be used over Hypnosis or a Secondary attack on the Calm Mind set to allow Golduck to set up on some of its usual counters"

 

[Lee]

Only thing I could find.

I meant it like that as in '(Calm Mind is always an excellent move, especially in conjunction with Substitute) and (Hypnosis gives you the ability to disable a problematic Pokemon allowing Golduck to set up easier, or just to give your incoming Pokemon a free switch) but I can reword it if it looks too awkward.

I've set up on Chansey many times. It's a simple matter of using Hypnosis and forcing her to switch out or sit there while you Calm Mind 6 times and 2HKO her. If she wakes up and breaks your sub, just put her back to sleep. Obviously you're walking a tightrope if you miss and Chansey decides to use Toxic/ThunderWave but I'm normally quite pleased when the opponent switches Chansey into this set.

Water Absorb/Dry Skin Pokemon were addressed...they can all be put to sleep and/or taken out by other members of your team.

I would suggest at best making this an "other options", like "Sub can be used over Hypnosis or a Secondary attack on the Calm Mind set to allow Golduck to set up on some of its usual counters"

Yeah, you might be right but I'm gonna wait on a verdict from higher up before I abandon it.

 

[wildfire393]

I meant it like that as in '(Calm Mind is always an excellent move, especially in conjunction with Substitute) and (Hypnosis gives you the ability to disable a problematic Pokemon allowing Golduck to set up easier, or just to give your incoming Pokemon a free switch) but I can reword it if it looks too awkward.

I've set up on Chansey many times. It's a simple matter of using Hypnosis and forcing her to switch out or sit there while you Calm Mind 6 times and 2HKO her. If she wakes up and breaks your sub, just put her back to sleep. Obviously you're walking a tightrope if you miss and Chansey decides to use Toxic/ThunderWave but I'm normally quite pleased when the opponent switches Chansey into this set.

Water Absorb/Dry Skin Pokemon were addressed...they can all be put to sleep and/or taken out by other members of your team.



Yeah, you might be right but I'm gonna wait on a verdict from higher up before I abandon it.

Putting a Water Asborb/Dry Skin Pokemon to sleep is not the same as removing it. It will still be there to hinder your sweep, and if they catch on that you don't have any attack besides Surf, they can just leave it in as you set up CMs uselessly until you either run out of PP on Hypnosis or you miss enough of them that they KO you.

As for Chansey, what do you do if you need to sleep their first switch in, then they switch in Chansey?

 

[Lee]

Golduck isn't completely shut down because he can still just put them to sleep and switch out. The rest of your team should be able to deal with a Water Absorber...I alluded to that in the Set Comments. People still use Crocune/Cursepert in OU, right? Hypnosis isn't here to help him set up in the same way that say...Ninetales would use it (e.g Hypnosis first turn, Nasty Plot second). Instead you attempt your sweep with the other three moves and use Hypnosis when you're confronted by something you don't like the look of.

and if they catch on that you don't have any attack besides Surf, they can just leave it in as you set up CMs uselessly until you either run out of PP on Hypnosis or you miss enough of them that they KO you.

If the opponent catches on and just leaves it in then they're gonna look pretty stupid when Golduck just switches out and something dangerous comes in on his sleeping Water Absorber and uses Swords Dance or whatever, aren't they?

As for Chansey, what do you do if you need to sleep their first switch in, then they switch in Chansey?

Switch to something that beats Chansey and feel a little a little silly for attempting a sweep when the opponent still has two healthy counters.