Inheritance Inheritance (Magic Bounce and Good as Gold Banned!)

[Hiusi guy]

Fun Fact:

 

[Schpoonman]

As is OM's way, the first few days/weeks after a major drop/ladder shake-up will contain ten trillion broken mons until Kris can get to each ladder. Someone help the poor man (not me, I can't code for shit).

Iron Boulder (Terrakion) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 52 HP / 204 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Mighty Cleave
- Earthquake

We finally got the boy a proper Rock STAB, ladies and gentlemen. Slower than Iron Boulder proper but significantly stronger between higher Attack and STAB Close Combat. EVs are to get Booster Speed, though you could run Agility and Adamant with max Attack for an alternate cleaning set.

Meowscarada (Iron Leaves) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flower Trick
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- U-turn

This has been actually a mon that I have very much enjoyed using, and now that Meowscarada has access to Triple Axel I'm wondering if I should change up the set at all.

 

[Hiusi guy]

Fun Fact:
View attachment 580629

Unfortunately, Kris fixed the issue with ho oh being allowed so it's banned now

But Blaziken never dies

We're so back (cc may or may not be better than fblitz, don't know how common Levi ghold is)

 

[Dahness]

So i heard Water Bubble is legal...

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

This should be legal (inheriting from Exeggutor)

 

[Greybaum]

View attachment 583674
This should be legal (inheriting from Alola Exeggutor)

doesn't get chlorophyll

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

doesn't get chlorophyll

Sorry, I meant regular exeggutor, it has all the same moves + chlorophyll.

 

[KaenSoul]

Sorry, I meant regular exeggutor, it has all the same moves + chlorophyll.

Regular Exeggutor doesnt actually learn the same moves as Alolan, that's the actual bug.
After it gets fixed it will no longer appear as compatible with Dragon moves and Flamethrower.

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

Is Kyurem supposed to be on the ban list? It is banned on showdown, but I only see Kyurem-White/Black on the banlist

 

[Dorsia]

Cannot Walking Wake inherit from Masquerain?
I've tried the exact same set with Alomomola and it works (don't do that, please)

 

[Don Vascus]

Cannot Walking Wake inherit from Masquerain?
I've tried the exact same set with Alomomola and it works (don't do that, please)

Walking Wake, due to being an event only pokemon, has some weird restrictions when it comes to specifically its IVs. Maybe try giving it max attack IVs?

 

[Don Vascus]

Its been a yeeeaaar since the last time we had some tiering action so i guess its due

	Don Vascus	anaconja	Clefable	pannu	Result
Speed Boost	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	4-0 BAN

Speed Boost is banned from Inheritance!
​

With Blaziken back, Speed boost has gained a new donor to clean house with. It's incredible movepool lends itself to basically any physical attacker you can think of, most notably Lando-T, making the multiple sets very hard to consistently answer even considering Unaware pokemon. Of course, with this ban this means that Flittle and Espathra are freed, since they were banned due to this ability

There are of course more things in our radar, notably Chien Pao, who has gained incredible sets thanks to Triple Axel coming back, Sheer Force, which has gained a new life with rampardos coming back as well as new abusers such as Kyurem, and Contrary, who has similarly gained a new donor in the form of Malamar, who has a much bigger movepool than Lurantis

Thank you in advance Kris for implementing the changes

 

[drampa's grandpa]

What's that? Lumina Crash is free? Time to abuse it!


Espathra (Meloetta / Deoxys-Speed) @ Choice Specs / Twistedspoon
Ability: Opportunist
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Lumina Crash
- Hyper Voice / Shadow Ball
- U-turn
- Dazzling Gleam

This set clicks Lumina Crash on everything and Dazzling Gleam or U-turn on Darks. Fun!

 

[Dorsia]

Sandy Shocks @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower / Substitute / Stealth Rock

Doesn't it have the perfect coverage? and , famous user of Regenvest sets, can't take that Earth Power easily.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Sandy Shocks Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 174-205 (47.8 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Sandy Shocks Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 229-273 (55.3 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

No.

The only way to have perfect coverage is to have Electric + Ice + Ground + Fighting on a single pokemon.

If you're missing even one of those typings, then abilities can counter you.

For example, since you are missing a fighting type attack, that set would be vulnerable to being walled by goodra-hisui with levitate. You'd be forced out to avoid a knock-off and hoping for a freeze.

Ice beam against Non-assaultvest Goodra-hisui without leftovers would be a 4hko. With leftovers it becomes a 5hko. If you get knocked off it becomes a 6hko. Without a fighting type move, Goodra-hisui could just sit on you and click recover 8 times. Sure you'd attack it coming in, but then it gets a free knock off & 2 turns of leftovers recovery because it forces you out. It doesn't necessarily need regenerator or assault vest to wall this.

If your that sandy shock set became popular, Goodra-hisui would just start inheriting from chimeco ... who gets both heal bell & knock off. That means becoming burn from flamethrower isn't an issue and only a lucky freeze could stop its progress. (Also, how the heck does a floating bell learn knock off? That's the equivalent of Diglett learning scratch.)

In my opinion, Chimeco doesn't have enough valuable utility moves to be worth running H-Goodra → [INH Chimeco]. I really wish it had SR, hazard removal, or a pivoting move. Heal Bell is only really useful on stall which is the least popular playstyle in the tier. The reason AV-Regen Goodra is an S tier mon in the meta is because of the role compression as a special wall + hazard removal + slow pivot. H-Goodra → [INH Chimeco] can not perform any of those roles; it is hardly an adequate special wall because without AV, it is 2HKO'd by some of the prominent special attackers in the tier (Iron Moth in Sun, Specs Mega Launcher Darkrai, Dragon's Maw/Adapdability Walking Wake).

To OP's point, Sheer Force Sandy Shocks is a phenomenal special wallbreaker in the tier as it 2HKO's almost all of the AV-Regen special walls that are on every team (besides Ting-Lu and Snorlax). As a side note, I think it can be worth running Modest nature to secure the 2HKO on H-Goodra w/o rocks up.

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

Has there been any thought or discussion amongst Inheritance leadership about developing viability rankings, role compendium, sample team resources, etc. for Inheritance? I see many of the other OMs have these resources and I think it helps grow the meta. Although it might be too challenging just because of the countless number of options in the meta.

 

[Hiusi guy]

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Yes, it's not worth running, to you, as you stated that's your opinion. That does not mean it is objectively worthless, not useful, or not S tier. AV-Regen Goodra-hisui is S-tier because Goodra-hisui itself is S tier, one of the few "perfect" pokemon even (alongside the likes Dragonite, Heatran, Ttar, and Tapu Lele). AV-Goodra is popular because it's easy to think of and is the first thing to come to mind.

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Goodra gains compressed roles with nigh any set because it itself is good. Hazard removal and Slow Pivot are specific to cyclizar Goodra-hisui, that means nothing else but that it's something that specific set can do. Chimeco Goodra-hisui can tank special attack, set up sweep, keep team ailment free, negate healing, remove items and tank special attacks. Alolamola Goodra-hisui can easily pass wishes and burn things and pivot.

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As you said yourself, that Sandy Shocks easily 2hko's assault vest Goodra-hisui without rocks. Meanwhile Levitate-no vest Goodra-hisui can sit on that exact same sandy shocks all day. Sun Ironmoth cannot 2hko non-AV Goodra-hisui without specs & without a crit & without overheat because Goodra is just that naturally tanky. Not mentioning assault vest is irrelevant if iron moth has all 3 of those things happen then it 2hko's both sets regardless of assault vest.

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You don't need to pivot if you force you opponent out. AV-regen Goodra-hisui cannot pivot on sandy shocks, it'd need to hard switch.

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It's a bulky steel dragon type that doesn't lack in offensive stats. To discount it as an adequate special wall is merely survivor bias speaking. Such is only said because you're used to seeing AV-Regen Goodra-hisui. It's the equivalent of calling Avalugg & Ting-Lu inadequate physical walls.

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Healbell is useful on any team that doesn't want to worry about ailments and can be utilized effectively by goodra-hisui who is immune toxic to undo any progress ailments are making, especially on itself.

Hide

I only answered the OP's question. They didn't ask if it's a good wall breaker, I'm sure they already know it is because sheer force does sheer force things. The OP asked if that was perfect coverage, in which the answer is objectively no, not without a fighting type attack. If one does not possess the 4 puzzle piece typings then abilities will allow it to be walled.

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Meta is not static. Chimeco Goodra was merely an example. Even you used "almost" & then listed Snorlax, who is ... weak to fighting indicating a lack of coverage. If that sandy shocks became a prominent special attacker, assault vest Goodra would become less common & levitate-leftovers more common.

Hide

That's simply the pattern. There was a time where people discredited defensive talonflame or salamence as defoggers because they were use to hyper offensive sets. Then surprise surprise when people saw all 6 of their pokemon burned & those two flying types still alive, opinions changed. Even happened recently in AAA forums prior to dlc drop when hazards became an issue and people complained of having no decent defogger as corviknight couldn't do the job. A person tried to tell everyone default Hawlucha & Magic Guard talonflame were excellent defoggers but received lash back due to survivor bias and a stubbornness to not try new things. Surprise surprise, opinions changed when more people used them. Turns out that joker, Hawlucha, with only HP investment is very bulky and pretty hard to kill & wouldn't die just healed to full & forced out hazard setters and Regen mons. ... Bullet proof stunfish ... yes stunfish ... was called worthless till surprise surprise, people used it and found it to be nigh invincible in the meta, even moreso than Chansey.

Hide

If one thing becomes popular, it's counters will become popular, that's just how it works. Heck landorus is basically immortalized.

Hide

Why the hell is everything you said hidden

Anyways funny set I thought of to not make this an absolute nothing post

Basculin (Iron Boulder) @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head / Adaptability
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Psychic Fangs
- Flip Turn
- Crunch / Wave Crash
Head smash go burr

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

Pecharunt is on the banlist but it is still legal on showdown

 

[Unmasked]

Some random sets I've came up with:

inherits from
Chien-Pao @ Choice Band
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Flower Trick / Trick
- U-turn
- Knock Off

Meowscarada got a buff in the second part of the DLC by receiving Triple Axel, and it's the perfect donor for Chien-Pao.
It now has STAB on everything it does! Trick is a neat move for in case an annoying stall Pokemon decides to switch-in on you.

inherits from or
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Crunch / Fire Punch
- Drain Punch / Roost

Speed doesn't matter anymore when clicking Espeed, and Snorlax finally receives good recovery moves in Drain Punch and Roost.
Justified sort of punishes people trying to use Knock Off, and Multiscale is a great ability when Snorlax is at full health.

I would have used Deoxys as a donor if it had physical set-up.

inherits from
Jolteon @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball

Tauros has such a varied movepool. So varied that there are even special attacks for Jolteon to use!
I chose Jolteon because its one of the fastest Special Sweepers Electrode and Deoxys-S outspeed it. But in my opinion, they don't hit as hard compared to Jolteon withs its base 110 Sp. Atk.

Boltbeam is amazing coverage, hitting every mon for at least neutral damage. Apart from the Magnet line and
At least we have Fire Blast and Shadow Ball.

Sheer Force boosted moves are neat. Because combined with Life Orb, Sheer Force boosted moves do 1.6x more damage without taking Life Orb recoil. Just like Choice Specs, but better.

 

[Don Vascus]

DLC time! defog didnt return cancel the gen

Of course this means a simple update for the banlist:

Deoxys regular, Deoxys Attack, Ho-Oh, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Lunala, Necrozma DM and DW, Regigigas, Reshiram, Smeargle, Solgaleo, Zekrom as well as Water Bubble are gonna start banned in inheritance!

These are all guys with bsts too strong for the tier, while smeargle has an infinite movepool.

On top of that, we voted on a couple of new guys:

	Don Vascus	anaconja	Clefable	pannu	Result
Pecharunt	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	4-0 BAN
Deoxys-Speed	DNB	ABS	DNB	DNB	0-3-1 STARTS FREE

Pecharunt will start banned, while Deoxys-Speed will start free!

Pecharunt is a ghost poison type with 160 defense and 88 in every other stat. The last thing this tier needs is an obsenely physically bulky ghost type that can also effectively run gholdengo as a donor. Hazard stack was already problematic with how limited removal was and it has not gotten any better, so we decided to not make it even worse with a super bulky ghost in the tier.

Deoxys-Speed is a fast pokemon with mixed offensive stats, usually a recipe for brokenness in this tier, but unlike pokemon similar to it like Regieleki and Dragapult, it has a mediocre offensive typing in mono psychic, so we decided to give it a fair shot. A lot of scary things are starting free, so it might fit in quite nicely

Also a little update compared to the rest, but Razor fang is also banned. King's Rock is banned so King's rock's clone should also be

Thank you Kris in advance for implementing it and Have fun!

As a reminder, Pecharunt is meant to start banned, so expect that to be implemented in the following days

Some random sets I've came up with: inherits from Chien-Pao @ Choice Band Ability: Protean Tera Type: Dark EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Triple Axel - Flower Trick / Trick - U-turn - Knock Off Meowscarada got a buff in the second part of the DLC by receiving Triple Axel, and it's the perfect donor for Chien-Pao. It now has STAB on everything it does! Trick is a neat move for in case an annoying stall Pokemon decides to switch-in on you.

If youre gonna run protean chien pao just run barraskewda instead, since its faster and slightly stronger and not weak to rocks

If you're gonna use chien pao, use something like this instead:



Ambipom (Chien-Pao) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Beat Up / Knock Off
- Knock Off / Low Kick / Switcheroo / Thunder Punch
- U-turn / Knock Off / Switcheroo

Chien pao has finally recieved his care package from the agency and now has become extra cracked. Tech taxel by itself is super hard to switch in, and ambipon has a laundry list of moves to support it, including the non contact tech beat up, knock off, U-turn, Switcheroo and coverage if you think people will start running cobalion to deal with it, or if you think beat up isnt enough to break through pex and suicune (definitely not true). Use it while you can bc this might get banned given how little resistss its stabs and how strong it is

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

Ambipom (Chien-Pao) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Beat Up / Knock Off
- Knock Off / Low Kick / Switcheroo / Thunder Punch
- U-turn / Knock Off / Switcheroo

Chien pao has finally recieved his care package from the agency and now has become extra cracked. Tech taxel by itself is super hard to switch in, and ambipon has a laundry list of moves to support it, including the non contact tech beat up, knock off, U-turn, Switcheroo and coverage if you think people will start running cobalion to deal with it, or if you think beat up isnt enough to break through pex and suicune (definitely not true). Use it while you can bc this might get banned given how little resistss its stabs and how strong it is

IMO Technician + Triple Axel should be banned rather than Chien Pao itself. The gamebreaking aspect of this set is a 180 Base Power Ice STAB move with no drawbacks, none of Chien Pao's other sets are remotely as broken as Technician variants. Also, banning Chien alone doesn't really solve the problem because this same set is like 95% as effective on Weavile too.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Here's another two Technician Chien-Pao sets, both of them double as hazard control:


Chien-Pao @ Loaded Dice / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Tidy Up
- Bullet Seed / Rock Blast
- Knock Off


Chien-Pao @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Thief
- Rapid Spin
- Sucker Punch / Close Combat / Bulldoze

Also keep in mind that Weavile is essentially the same Pokemon, just slightly frailer and slower, but there is essentially nothing inbetween their speed tiers so if Pao is banned Weavile acts as a drop-in replacement and probably needs to be looked at soon after.

As for Jolteon, its biggest issue is that even running Earth Power it is a sitting duck against Regenvesters because even super effective coverage is out healed by Regenerator. In order to be successful in this meta a Sheer Force breaker pretty much needs to be able to go mixed ( ) or at least to have enough raw power to break through them (, again, sort of)

 

[Schpoonman]

Always fucks me up when people here for years casually suggest complex bans even as Smogon's moved farther and farther away from them since X and Y.

Based on tiering policy that I know Vascus follows If Tech Axel is a problem abusers will get smoked one at a time until such a time that Tech Axel is no longer or a problem or we're looking to upend the entire tier, in which case the donors of Tech Axel will be smoked. We're never complex banning Technician + Triple Axel.

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

Always fucks me up when people here for years casually suggest complex bans even as Smogon's moved farther and farther away from them since X and Y.

Based on tiering policy that I know Vascus follows If Tech Axel is a problem abusers will get smoked one at a time until such a time that Tech Axel is no longer or a problem or we're looking to upend the entire tier, in which case the donors of Tech Axel will be smoked. We're never complex banning Technician + Triple Axel.

I'm sorry that it "fucks you up" (seems a bit dramatic, but ok) - not all of us are experts on the evolution of Smogon banning policy like you are, apparently.

In any case, if Chien gets the hammer then I think Weavile should too.

 

[Dunfan]

To those who struggle with Chien Pao, there's actually a way to not only reliably check it, but also render it harmless.

(

donor)
Iron Hands @ Bright Powder
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn

Bright Powder (legal for some godforsaken reason) nerfs Triple Axel to a 74 BP average before Technician applies, and each Triple Axel hit will count for Flame Body, giving Iron Hands - assuming all hits connect - a 51% chance of burning Chien after two hits (weakening the last one) and a 65.7% chance after three hits. Being burned will unfortunately not remove a hit from Beat Up, but it's not like it could hurt your check anyway. And let's just say Flame Body is dissuasive when it comes to clicking Knock against it.
The true "good" way to deal with Chien is the standard Intimidate/Fur Coat + Rocky Helmet set, but it's interesting to see how niche sets can be Chien's absolute nightmare.