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Little things you like about Pokémon
- Thread starter Kurona
- Start date
I guess where I disagree on the story tone there is that USUM aren't light in and of themselves, but they feel a bit less dark from the previous games.
My basis for this primarily pertains to the story climax, as S/M is smaller in scope but also feels more grounded in its subject matter. It's not about stopping an Apocalyptic event, just dealing with the fallout of a broken and abusive family life, without a lot of innuendo or obfuscation for younger players. Rainbow Rocket gets some "theme park" vibes to me given the whole premise is "here's a throwback to all the big villain bosses", even if contextually they are taken seriously, on a meta level there's a concession to having them there at all.
The resolution also sort of gets me. S/M Lillie and Lusamine start a path to healing, but things aren't "fixed" as soon as you beat the antagonist, with Lusamine still very sick (physically and possible mentally), Gladion's side of the issue not necessarily resolved, and Lillie not being able to stay with her friends or found family in an effort to help her Mom in spite of everything. US/UM by comparison has a conflict that can be and sort of IS resolved as soon as you defeat Ultra Necrozma, since the scars don't run emotionally deep, and even Rainbow Rocket, despite escalating the conflict, is very impersonal and disconnected from the main story one.
That's the main thing I think makes S/M stick out to people: The consequences don't end with the Crisis the way they do in most games (Gen 1-4 the teams kind of disband after you stop their big gambit, Gen 5 leaves N as a hanging thread which similarly made the character stick with players), which makes the S/M plot feel less idealized or like a "means to an end" to contextualize the gameplay journey, which I will say even about several gens I like such as Gens 3-4 and a lot of SV's main campaign paths.
In Sun and Moon the story ends on an abused child attacking her Mother with a Pokemon she raised (who was also abused by her.)
Not a Pokemon battle, just straight up attacking her, only censored by her technically being a weird fusion. Then, she goes into a coma.
Sun and Moon is literally a game about child abuse while USUM takes it and turns it into any regular Pokemon plot like RSE/DPP
And Ultra Necrozma shit is literally basic "Protagonist saves the day" arc
What makes Sun and Moon unique is literally the fact that it is objectively the darkest Pokemon game in terms of story lol.
Rainbow Rocket has all the darkness of a fucking Pokemon Masters gacha game arc where the entire point is for the player to say "Oh my god, that's Character! Character is so cool!" It's basic fanservice, lol.
this is literally just a case of Pokemon fans having no media literacy/only responding to basic shonen stuff, and the fact that you said you didn't even remember most of the game elements I mentioned only adds to me thinking this
I will say that Lusamine in USUM does still have work ahead of her and she's aware of it, but you only really notice it if you go out of your way to talk to her about it. To an extent, I think it's a slightly more interesting end point for her character than the end of SM (the last we see of Lusamine is effectively a hope spot to continue off the "when did you get so beautiful" line - her "recovered", all smiles and trying to join the party before collapsing vs the last we see of Lusamine in USUM if you dig around for it is a tired woman who is aware she's failed her children, her Foundation, her husband and to an extent herself but wants to do better), it just came at the cost of one of the better moments and Lillie's story climax being shuffled off screen (but not the lead up????).
Honestly "theme park" isnt a terrible descriptor but they probably should have comitted to the bit instead of stapling it onto the existing story mostly unchanged.
Rika is already avaliable in the Trainer Lodge in Pokemon Masters despite being released so recently. They really do know their public.
(for context, she scored first for two consecutive years in a japanese pool about women's fictional crushes, which is even funnier since it's on January and SV coming just in November didn't stop her from beating a lot of dudes)
(for context, she scored first for two consecutive years in a japanese pool about women's fictional crushes, which is even funnier since it's on January and SV coming just in November didn't stop her from beating a lot of dudes)
I saw reposts of "roster" images from the 2023 Poll and I think Rika was the only Female character in the list (albeit I don't know most of the characters so grain of salt there)?
She also beat out a bunch of really notable men, yes. It's very funny
I think Arven was also on those lists, which makes it funnier
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
I heard about the 2022 poll and had a hearty chuckle but I didn't know Rika was reigning champ twice in a row. "Recency bias" chuds btfo
Source btw, you're welcome: https://note.com/_ui12/n/nd9d2bf752c5e
Source btw, you're welcome: https://note.com/_ui12/n/nd9d2bf752c5e
I was hesitant about replying to this due to the borderline toxic remarks in your last paragraph here, but I felt that I had to just to get all of this out of my head.
If we look purely at the quality of the stories, then I agree that S/M is superior. When I played S/M, I really liked the story, and nowadays, I’d say it is my third favorite story from all the Pokémon games I have played. I didn’t like the US/UM story as much as the story in S/M, I think the changes and additions made the story darker and more complex, but they didn’t make it better. I agree that it is far more generic than the story in S/M. I still like the story in US/UM though, but I find it inferior to the story of S/M. That said, I prefer some of the character conclusions in US/UM (notably Lillie and Lusamine) and I am a huge fan of Necrozma’s character arc (or what to call it).
But I still think US/UM were darker and more complex. The main antagonist is a Pokémon who is basically threatening the whole world, which I think is much more serious than some family drama. That’s not to say darker is better (since it isn’t in this case), but that’s how I feel.
I also agree about Rainbow Rocket when it comes to quality. It was pretty average on the whole. However, I wasn’t overly fond of the post-game story in S/M either. It was basically just a way for them to allow the player to catch the UBs. Can’t say I prefer either story over the other, but I think Rainbow Rocket was considerably darker and more complex (for better and worse).
It is not nice to assume that an entire fandom thinks the same way just because you happen to disagree with the opinions of a single individual. The Pokémon fandom is not a hivemind. It is fine to disagree with someone, but please be polite and respectful about it. You did this just fine in your first reply to me, I don’t understand why you had to change it in the last paragraph of your second reply.
As for why I don’t remember much of the things from the Alola games, the main reason is that it has been a while since I last played the story part of them (2017 for S/M, 2018 for US/UM). And I have no interest in replaying their main games. Another reason is that the games aren’t among my top favorites in the series, and the impression they left on me was not completely positive. I liked the story in S/M, but they have some pretty big gameplay issues which drag them down (not going to talk about them here since this is the wrong thread for that). On the whole, I consider S/M to be average Pokémon games. As for US/UM, I like them better. The story is worse than in S/M, and the Rotom Dex is much more annoying, but in terms of everything else, they are equal to or better than S/M. Still not the very best games in the series if you ask me, but far better than S/M.
You have not explained how USUM's story are darker or more complex
Or why the conclusions for the characters are better
You wrote all of these paragraphs and I am honestly feeling like my post aged extremely well ngl
A personal opinion that the larger stakes make it more serious and thus darker.
Related to this, we see that their view of Rainbow Rocket follows in the same suit. RR is a larger stakes story: multi-verse domination, hostile take overs.
We can then build on that information to how it went to being complex by being bigger stakes:
-More players are involved in both. The URS and the context of Megalopolois for the main story, the other team leaders in Rainbow Rocket.
-Additional worlds, in general.
-If we dig in deeper, the fact the leaders are from Bad End worlds, specifically.
Additional characters and concepts by definition add more complexity to the situation.
By their own admission (multiple times, throughout the post) this does not make those plots better. But, to them, it makes them darker and more complex.
You do not have to agree with it, but there's no need to smugly say they didn't explain anything and that your original post aged better.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
So many of this person's replies are like this. "I disagree and that's because you're stupid"
Seriously wonder how people who talk like this manage IRL.
You really just shittalking in a public forum huh
Like there isn't even other substance to this post you are just shittalking and giving nothing else
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
If you want to call "accurately describing your own words" shittalking, then yes.
You routinely make personal attacks in your responses to people, something I've publicly called you out on before. It's unpleasant and unnecessary and if you can't handle a differing opinion without feeling the need to call someone silly or stupid or illiterate in response then you should expect people to, as you call it, shittalk.
(He's even DM'd me to accuse me of "starting drama" by calling him out, honestly it's hilarious)
For what it's worth, you're consistently the most insufferable person to try and carry a conversation with on this subforum, and I usually ignore you for that reason. Just think you should know.
I did not say you were causing drama, I said I do not *want* drama. Because if you think I will just let you say this shit publicly and not reply, you are wrong, and that will be the thing that actually causes drama. Drama is a two way street, after all.
This was a fairly simple request and instead of just talking to me, which I was trying to do, privately, you go back to the thread to immediately shittalk me further and basically get mad at me for trying to talk about it privately?
This was such a small thing and nothing in it was accusatory. You are talking in bad faith.
You can dislike me as a person all you want, but do not lie about me accusing you or something. Because that didn't happen. This is literally the entire message. Lol! Funny! Also misgendering me, awesome.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
I declined to answer your DM because I thought it was a pathetic thing to send, frankly. You're willing to dish it out to others, but the instant someone openly calls out your unpleasantness you decide to slide into DMs which I think is cowardly and shows exactly how fragile you are. I have no particular wish to have a conversation with you in any medium, private or otherwise.
Thanks, will do.
I think a lot of people would read "I don't want drama like that" as equivalent to saying "you're starting drama" but I acknowledge I misquoted you, which was done in the heat of the moment. I think it's a reach to accuse me of an outright lie though, and speaks to your overall fragility and odd defensiveness. My initial comment was literally in response to you being rude to another member of this forum, so to suggest I'm trying to cause more drama requires a serious "bad faith" (as you put it) intuiting of my motives.
Well, if I wasn't already going to hell my fate's well and truly sealed now.
Why would I not be defensive when you are literally turning "Little things you like into Pokemon" into a space to air out your grievances towards me?
Several times in your post is "you are a fragile person because you are being defensive", but that's because I don't want to rip into another person in a random Pokemon thread, especially when, like I said, "I have no qualms with you".
I don't hold grudges and I still won't hold one against you, but like this is a dumb exchange. If you want me to not be so defensive, then it's not going be here. But I don't really want to rip into you to begin with. Unlike what you seem to think, I do not think heated moments on a Pokemon forum are truly reflective of a person's personality.
"Sliding ino DMs" is generally considered amongst almost the entire internet to be the appropriate course of action, and in fact, I shouldn't have posted pubtlicly to begin with. I should have DMed you first instead, but I admittedly had my own heated moment on the Pokemon forum and felt the need to respond. Talking things out privately is literally just better than having a public boxing match about stuff like this, and generally is better to come to understandings than this.
I do not get why you are tripling down on me being an insidious person when in reality I just have strong opinions on the game.
Lastly, on this, please do point out the last time I made an entire post just shitting on a person with no substance to the thread topic. Like, just entirely to air out my negative opinions on a person. Because if negative comments about someone's opinion or knowledge on a subject alone was the barrier of entry to being a bad person, the website would have to shut down. Policy Review would be in shambles. That is what I do. That is not equivalent to literally just shitting on somebody.
That, and the fact that people do criticize me. And I don't just reply and get mad. Hell, this started with another person criticizing me and I did not even reply to that part of their post, and I did not reply to their follow up to me still not agreeing with them. Because I do not find criticizing me to be a problem as long as it is actually relevant to the thread.
I agree that sometimes I go too far on that, but also I will not just say that is equivalent to what is occurring here. I do not actually think ill of people here generally, unless they have actual harmful opinions (such as homophobia, racism, bigotry, etc.) and aren't just people I find annoying. I know you may not believe me, but I promise you that is the case. I do not dislike you, and that is not changing.
Not gonna keep going forever, have a good one.
I can almost guarantee that you can avoid drama by simply making posts without the snide low-key insults that people are citing. Ask yourself, how much are those worth to you?
Okay, so what is the plan here? Just hash this out in public repeatedly in this forum? I already said that yes I go too far at times, but also I am not just going to bend my back and say "Yeah it's fine to do this" lol, because it just isn't.
I am sorry that I was rude to people, and specifically in this instance Superior Derivative, but like this has to stop at some point.