LunOgre Squad (VGC 19 Sun Series)
Introduction
Hey guys, I'd like to get some feedback on a team that I've been working on for a little bit. I really haven't had as much time as I would have liked to to play this format, and I've only really peaked at around the 1400s on the showdown ladder on my alt using this team, so any glaring weaknesses that I haven't spotted in testing would be nice to know about. I think the team is at least unique in the fact that it doesn't feature Incineroar, but in general I feel like LunOgre is a bit underrated at the moment. It's also different in the fact that I haven't seen both Torn and Tsareena on the same LunOgre team, and I've only seen one LunOgre team with Fini on it top cut (maybe for good reason). Oh, and it also doesn't have Protect on any of its mons. This is kind of by design, it's supposed to be a pretty fast paced offensive team. All of the more complicated spreads are just the sample spreads from victoryroad.com, you can find the benchmarks they hit here. I haven't found a need to deviate from these spreads so far.
Teambuilding Process
So this team kind of came about from messing around with the above team, a variation of Riccardo Appamea's RayOgre team that was used by Javier Prada to top cut an event. I really liked it, but there were some components that I felt were a bit lack luster for my playstyle. Firstly, while I like Rayquaza, there were many times where outside of removing the sun for Kyogre's Water Spout it really didn't do too much. Aerial Ace just had too little base power and steels were pretty annoying to deal with. I did like Gengar as ghost type STAB has very good neutral coverage in this format and it outsped and did a good chunk to AV Kartana, putting it in range of a full power Spout from Kyogre in the rain. It was also a fast taunt mon which was immune to Fake Out, meaning I didn't need to switch in to Tsareena to stop trick room if I opponent led TR setter + Fake Out user.
This might seem like a pretty drastic jump from the previous team comp to this, but the changes kind of make sense. While Gengar was great, I felt like Lunala did the job of spamming neutral ghost STAB better. While it underspeeds Kartana, that's not so important due to my other changes. I still needed a flying type, as otherwise Amoonguss and Toxicroak could be a pain to deal with. It also synergised well with Kyogre and Tsareena, and provided the team with Tailwind support. Koko was added as another option to outspeed Kartana, as well as protect the team from Spore/Lovely Kiss and chip things in to Water Spout/Moongeist Beam range. It also kind of helped to bluff my Lunala set as many Lunala are support with Electric Seed.
Unfortunately Scizor just wasn't cutting it for this team comp. I practically never brought it in testing. It did help in the Xerneas matchup and having a slow U-turn in to one of my restricteds after setting up TW is cool and all, but it just felt lack luster whenever I brought it and it was rarely pivotal in any of the games I decided to bring it to. I kind of just slapped Fini on to be quite honest, but it does make sense. It can hit Yveltal which can be a nuisance as I cannot prevent it from setting up tailwind (due to Prankster's nerf) and Sucker Punch/Knock Off hit damn hard. It can also remove Xerneas' boosts with Haze.
In-Depth
Introduction
Hey guys, I'd like to get some feedback on a team that I've been working on for a little bit. I really haven't had as much time as I would have liked to to play this format, and I've only really peaked at around the 1400s on the showdown ladder on my alt using this team, so any glaring weaknesses that I haven't spotted in testing would be nice to know about. I think the team is at least unique in the fact that it doesn't feature Incineroar, but in general I feel like LunOgre is a bit underrated at the moment. It's also different in the fact that I haven't seen both Torn and Tsareena on the same LunOgre team, and I've only seen one LunOgre team with Fini on it top cut (maybe for good reason). Oh, and it also doesn't have Protect on any of its mons. This is kind of by design, it's supposed to be a pretty fast paced offensive team. All of the more complicated spreads are just the sample spreads from victoryroad.com, you can find the benchmarks they hit here. I haven't found a need to deviate from these spreads so far.
Teambuilding Process
So this team kind of came about from messing around with the above team, a variation of Riccardo Appamea's RayOgre team that was used by Javier Prada to top cut an event. I really liked it, but there were some components that I felt were a bit lack luster for my playstyle. Firstly, while I like Rayquaza, there were many times where outside of removing the sun for Kyogre's Water Spout it really didn't do too much. Aerial Ace just had too little base power and steels were pretty annoying to deal with. I did like Gengar as ghost type STAB has very good neutral coverage in this format and it outsped and did a good chunk to AV Kartana, putting it in range of a full power Spout from Kyogre in the rain. It was also a fast taunt mon which was immune to Fake Out, meaning I didn't need to switch in to Tsareena to stop trick room if I opponent led TR setter + Fake Out user.
This might seem like a pretty drastic jump from the previous team comp to this, but the changes kind of make sense. While Gengar was great, I felt like Lunala did the job of spamming neutral ghost STAB better. While it underspeeds Kartana, that's not so important due to my other changes. I still needed a flying type, as otherwise Amoonguss and Toxicroak could be a pain to deal with. It also synergised well with Kyogre and Tsareena, and provided the team with Tailwind support. Koko was added as another option to outspeed Kartana, as well as protect the team from Spore/Lovely Kiss and chip things in to Water Spout/Moongeist Beam range. It also kind of helped to bluff my Lunala set as many Lunala are support with Electric Seed.
Unfortunately Scizor just wasn't cutting it for this team comp. I practically never brought it in testing. It did help in the Xerneas matchup and having a slow U-turn in to one of my restricteds after setting up TW is cool and all, but it just felt lack luster whenever I brought it and it was rarely pivotal in any of the games I decided to bring it to. I kind of just slapped Fini on to be quite honest, but it does make sense. It can hit Yveltal which can be a nuisance as I cannot prevent it from setting up tailwind (due to Prankster's nerf) and Sucker Punch/Knock Off hit damn hard. It can also remove Xerneas' boosts with Haze.
In-Depth
Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Thunder
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
So, Scarf Kyogre. Spout just hits so hard man. This is basically just ripped straight from Riccardo's team with 8 EVs moved to squeeze an extra stat point out. While this does the roll for Spout to OHKO no bulk Yveltal (25% instead of 31% chance), I would rarely go for that roll in case it had some bulk, and it's likely they would sucker punch ogre before the spout went off anyway. The game plan is often just chip my opponent's mons down to Water Spout range/break potential sashes/take out potential Wide Guard users and bring in Kyogre at full health to clean. While Scarf + TW might seem excessive, it can actually be a great piece of mind being less worried about potential scarf mons like Koko, Lele and the illusive scarf Kartana, as well as weather abusers. Yeah what can I say, it's a great mon, we've all used it, we've all played against it.
Lunala @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Shield
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Trick
Lunala is a powerhouse. Similar to how I usually lock in to Spout on ogre, 90% of the time I lock in to Moongeist Beam unless I need to hit Xerneas without the fear of it Geomancying and eating a Moongeist beam or if I need to take out Toxicroak or Amoonguss. Specs also allows me to pretty confidentally go for a Moongeist beam into opposing Lunala if necessary and risk the speed tie knowing it will OHKO through Shadow Shield. Focus Blast is a fail-safe option for denting Incineroar, as well as Stakataka. I've literally only clicked it once, and it hit and won me the game. Trick is kind of interesting, it can be pretty helpful for Zygarde matchups, particularly if it Coils on the turn I choose to Trick, though after a few Swagger boosts from Fini if it isn't locked in to Coil it can still be annoying. Really it's a filler move that I don't think that I don't think really has a superior alternative.
Tapu Koko @ Assault Vest
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 116 HP / 28 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD / 108 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunder
- Nature's Madness
- Electroweb
Standard AV Koko set. Koko is on the team as a fast support option, providing another speed control option, instantly bring pretty much the entire metagame in to specs Moongeist Beam range with a Nature's Madness, an offensive check to Yveltal and opposing Kyogre (with AV it lives a spout). Being able to remove psychic terrain is often nice to ensure Taunt from Torn or Feint from Tsareena aren't interrupted (it was a bit more important for the iteration with Scizor).
Tapu Fini @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 4 SpA / 60 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Icy Wind
- Haze
- Light Screen
- Moonblast
Fini as I said in the teambuilding section was a pretty last minute replacement. It's role is to be a little bit of an insurance policy against Xerneas, as well as other boosting mons like Zygarde, SD Groudon, CM Lunala etc. Fini has a much better matchup against Groudon than Koko (actually being able to reduce its speed as well as the obvious lack of a ground weakness) and generally is a bit harder to deal with defensively. It can also more reliably hit Yveltal without needing rain up or worrying about needing to switch a mon out and take damage in the process. I'm still iffy on this pick. I was considering going with Amoonguss for a similar role and of course redirection and spore, but I don't know it didn't feel like it belonged, it didn't really go with the fast paced playstyle of the team.
Tsareena @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 12 Atk / 140 Def / 148 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Power Whip
- Feint
- Helping Hand
- High Jump Kick
Tsareena is just made for synergising with scarf ogre. It protects it from Sucker Punch and Fake Out, breaks Wide Guard and Protect with Feint, makes things that really shouldn't be getting 2HKOd by Spout get 2HKOd, like Amoonguss, Kyogre and Ferrothorn. It also synergises far better with Tornadus than Lele, as Queenly Majesty actually protects Torn from Fake Out unlike Psychic terrain and doesn't interrupt Tornadus if it wants to get off a prankster Taunt on something like a TR setter or an Amoonguss or Smeargle. I went with standard berry over AV set that Riccardo used since Helping Hand is just too good to pass up sometimes, and of course koko was already AV.
Tornadus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Rain Dance
Tornadus is by far the most used non-restricted on the team. Again standard Torn set. If there was a mon on the team where I think it would make sense to put Protect on without making changes to sets I'd say it would be this guy since I practically never use Rain Dance. To be honest though, Torn usually just goes for a few Taunts, sets up a Tailwind and dies, maybe going for a Hurricane to break a Lunala's Shadow Shield so that Spout kills, putting Incineroar in range for a HJK from Tsareena or just hitting flying weaks like Ludi, Toxicroak and Amoonguss. I often don't really need/want Torn to stick around for much longer to make use of the Tailwind/Taunt turns and get a safe switch in to one of my restricteds. Rain Dance can be useful for playing around potential Groudon switch ins on the rare occasion that both Torn and Kyogre on the field together (which as I said, is rare since Torn is usually KOd by the time I ever bring in ogre).
Replays
Not the best replays since, again, I haven't really had much time to climb the ladder as I would have liked. There's quite a few missplays on my end but yeah these should give a decent idea of how the team functions. A lot of these replays will be with the Scizor version of the team, but I don't bring Scizor to any of these games so it doesn't make much of a difference.
XernOgre game
LunOgre game
XernDon game
Solgaleo+Ogre game (finals for a VGC room tour, pretty winnable game if I played better)
Solagleo+Zygarde game
XernOgre game
Importable
Not the best replays since, again, I haven't really had much time to climb the ladder as I would have liked. There's quite a few missplays on my end but yeah these should give a decent idea of how the team functions. A lot of these replays will be with the Scizor version of the team, but I don't bring Scizor to any of these games so it doesn't make much of a difference.
XernOgre game
LunOgre game
XernDon game
Solgaleo+Ogre game (finals for a VGC room tour, pretty winnable game if I played better)
Solagleo+Zygarde game
XernOgre game
Importable
Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Thunder
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
Lunala @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Shield
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Trick
Tapu Koko @ Assault Vest
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 116 HP / 28 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD / 108 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunder
- Nature's Madness
- Electroweb
Tapu Fini @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 4 SpA / 60 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Icy Wind
- Haze
- Light Screen
- Moonblast
Tsareena @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 12 Atk / 140 Def / 148 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Power Whip
- Feint
- Helping Hand
- High Jump Kick
Tornadus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Rain Dance
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Thunder
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
Lunala @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Shield
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Trick
Tapu Koko @ Assault Vest
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 116 HP / 28 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD / 108 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunder
- Nature's Madness
- Electroweb
Tapu Fini @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 4 SpA / 60 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Icy Wind
- Haze
- Light Screen
- Moonblast
Tsareena @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 12 Atk / 140 Def / 148 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Power Whip
- Feint
- Helping Hand
- High Jump Kick
Tornadus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Rain Dance
