Ubers National Dex Ubers Metagame Discussion

[FunnyValentine2]

Shuckle + Eruption Groudon HO Team Report
https://pokepast.es/250714009339231b

I wasn't too serious when I made this team but it's very fun and I'm currently at 1720 on the ladder with it. I really just wanted to make a team that has both max special attack Water Spout Kyogre and Eruption Groudon. My original plan for the team was to have everything able to OHKO or at least set up on Ho-Oh (https://pokepast.es/72b8fda4316a7c29). Dropped HP ice on Groudon because I almost never used it and it didn't OHKO most Zygardes anyway. Overheat is a great move for this set. Dropped Stone Edge on Arceus because I found myself getting destroyed by Groudon and steel types way more than it was able to actually prevent defog attempts from Ho-Oh. The Mewtwo set was just bad and I never found myself doing much of anything with it. +2 Modest 252 Psystrike has a chance to OHKO standard physdef Ho-Oh but it's not good. I experimented a bit with Agility Calyrex-Ice but it was too inconsistent.

I'm very happy with the current version of the team. Mega Salamence is a midgame wallbreaker and late game cleaner that doesn't need webs to function, but still benefits from them slowing down opponents so it can run Adamant. Frustration over Double Edge to prevent Dittos from effectively reverse sweeping. I've never actually clicked Facade with it. Defog might be better against certain teams, but the only other moves I'd really consider are that and Roost. I still like the insurance against getting burned by Sacred Fire. Adamant lorb Marshadow is only slightly weaker than jolly Choice Band (105% vs. 108% minimum against Ho-Oh with Rock Tomb) and synergizes well with webs. If Shuckle gets rocks and webs up, then it beats every opposing Marshadow with Sneak unless they terastalize Normal. Spectral Thief over Poltergeist primarily because the accuracy, ability to steal boosts, and going through Substitute are still very valuable. This wasn't against a high ladder player, but in one game my opponent lead Xerneas against Shuckle, got encored into Geomancy, had Marshadow steal 3 Geomancy boosts, and forfeited. I think most of what the team does is clear enough from looking at the paste. It's Shuckle and 5 things with 252+ spatk or attack. Tera Dark on Shuckle is to survive more attacks from Yveltal, but tera Water might be better against Kyogre and Groudon counterleads.

The Arceus EV spread hits 307 speed (1 more than 252+ base 90s) and 409 HP to take less damage from Life Orb. Everything else other than the requisite 252+ attack was put into defense. The ability to outspeed and OHKO Giratina at +2 with tera is great and comes into play quite often. Groudon's attack EVs give it a 56.3% chance to KO 248 HP 252+ defense Ho-Oh with Stone Edge, and the speed lets it move before -1 fully invested base 130s. Marshadow's lower HP IV is so it takes less damage from Life Orb.

Strengths:
-Encore is an amazing move on Shuckle. Forces a lot of switches and allows for Shuckle to set up another layer of hazards or get a free switch into something else. If they switch into Groudon for one reason or another and you double switch into Kyogre, Groudon's ability will trigger first and then they'll be forced to switch something into a rain boosted Water Spout.
-If Ho-Oh uses tera Grass to survive Stone Edge, then it gets OHKO'd by Overheat/Eruption
-Final Gambit can do surprising damage and even if it doesn't, it's great for momentum
-Other than Magic Bounce, Sturdy + Mental Herb guarantees nothing can prevent at least one layer of hazards from getting up
-Enough priority to not lose instantly to Geomancy Xerneas, U-Necrozma, opposing Mega Salamence, etc.
-Forces so many switches. One bad read can instantly lose your opponent the game, especially if they don't anticipate Eruption/Overheat.

Weaknesses:
-Groudon having a -def nature hurts it a lot against Arceus, Necrozma, Calyrex-Ice, and other Groudon. I still think it's preferable to -spdef because then it'd get 2hko'd by Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam, and preferable to a fully neutral nature because it needs the ability to do as much damage to neutral targets with Overheat and Eruption as possible.
-Origin Pulse, Stone Edge, or Overheat missing can swing entire games
-Water Spout and Eruption can be dependent on hard reads against targets that are faster/have priority. I honestly barely use Eruption so any suggestions for a different move would be appreciated
-With Magic Coat Deo-S leads, Shuckle doesn't have a good way to ensure that webs don't get up on both sides
-No member of the team can OHKO bulky Yveltal. It's honestly better at removing hazards than Ho-Oh is against this team. Also has no dark resistance
-Salamence is the only thing immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes
-Bad against Melmetal trick room teams because there are only two Steel resistances, one of which is -def with no bulk
-Absolutely terrible against stall

Some calcs:
252+ Atk Life Orb Marshadow Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyogre-Primal: 298-351 (87.3 - 102.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus in Harsh Sunshine: 382-451 (86 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 248+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Frustration vs. 248 HP / 220+ Def Ho-Oh: 280-331 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 248+ Atk Salamence-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 220-260 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus in Heavy Rain: 442-522 (99.5 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Two replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2007855850 (incredibly odd team but he was 1791 elo)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2005000762 (Showcase of the setup opportunities that Encore gives)
I had more but they aren't available because of the replay data issue going on currently.

 

[Red Raven]

What is the explanation for why Necrozma DM runs 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 SpD on its defensive sets? What does the spread accomplish?

 

[bumboclaat]

What is the explanation for why Necrozma DM runs 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 SpD on its defensive sets? What does the spread accomplish?

The SpD is primarily for Xerneas: +2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 188 SpD Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 178-210 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

The rest goes in defence since NDM doesn't really need speed for much of anything. It does help with things like this: +3 252 Atk Tera Ground Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 295-348 (74.3 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[FunnyValentine2]

Tera Stellar: What potential does it have in the tier?
I ran across someone using stellar tera life orb Marshadow and it made me start thinking about what other Pokemon in the tier might benefit from it. Any strong attacker that runs coverage and is starving for just that little bit extra power to get consistent OHKOs benefits from Stellar, but it's a matter of if this is worth losing the very significant utility of defensive tera.

Xerneas:
The boost from stellar tera has a lot of potential with Xerneas sets offensively.
+2 252 SpA Tera Stellar Xerneas Hidden Power Rock vs. 248 HP / 36 SpD Ho-Oh: 428-504 (103.1 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Tera Stellar Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 346-408 (101.4 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Tera Stellar Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 346-408 (85.6 - 100.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Tera Stellar Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 520-612 (117.1 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (up from 25% chance to OHKO)
Against defensive Necrozma-Dusk Mane, modest Stellar Moonblast into HP Ground is a guaranteed OHKO.

EKiller:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Giratina-Origin: 494-582 (98 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Ho-Oh: 382-450 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 398-471 (94.7 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (I'm not familiar with Zygarde EV spreads)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 491-580 (116.6 - 137.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (compared to 25% chance without tera)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 403-476 (90.7 - 107.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Deoxys-Attack:
252 Atk Tera Stellar Deoxys-Attack Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Ho-Oh: 408-480 (98.3 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Tera Stellar Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 368-434 (107.9 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tera Stellar Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 426-502 (105.4 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Other potential users: Calyrex-Ice, Weakness Policy Necrozma-Dusk Mane (to get a better chance to OHKO Groudon), Lunala, Yveltal, Rayquaza, and base Mewtwo
I think that Marshadow is the best user of Stellar Tera. It usually runs Tera Ghost anyway so it's not missing out on any crucial defensive tera like Xerneas, Arceus, or Calyrex-Ice might. The 20% boost to non-STAB moves makes Life Orb Rock Tomb a guaranteed OHKO on max phys bulk Ho-Oh (and also no bulk Yveltal after stealth rocks). Life Orb Stellar Tera Shadow Sneak does a satisfying 45.5-54.4% to Zacian. Lorb Low Kick becomes a guaranteed OHKO on no bulk Primal Kyogre, a 25% OHKO on no bulk Yveltal, and a guaranteed 2HKO on 252hp Primal Groudon.

For most of the previous Pokemon mentioned, losing defensive tera really hurts. EKiller without tera Ghost gets its sweep ended by Marshadow unless webs are up. Xerneas really likes tera Steel to resist Extreme Speed and Sunsteel Strike. Yveltal likes tera Dark for both the permanent power boost and losing its Rock weakness. Deoxys appreciates tera Ghost to gain an Extreme Speed immunity, but with tera Stellar it can beat counterlead EKillers. Calyrex-Ice has one of the worst defensive type combos in the game and really needs defensive tera to survive interactions with Marshadow, Yveltal, Zacian, and Arceus-Dark.
Overall, I think Stellar Tera has potential for many different wallbreakers and sweepers in the tier, and should be explored more.

 

[NolanatorCool]

Hearthflame+physical mixed attackers: https://pokepast.es/2b8148800607ee6a

Groudon: now you might be wondering. Why is the groudon not primal and why tera grass? Well its supposed to be a check to the kyogres and various other legends. it has precipice to counter other primal groudon and also can bop reg groudon with its stab insta solar beam.

Annihilape: the setup sweeper that if your not careful can ruin the game. i packed this powerful enraged ghost monke with tera normal to elim the weaknesses on the ghost side and if faced with a fighting type, well, free rage fist damage. also if anyone trys to swap in a normal type, i can catch them with a crit stab cross chop or a stab close combat. And Earthquake for some extra coverage. (P.S. You can swap out life orb for leftovers if you want it to last longer)

Ogerpon Hearthflame: The Lead. has ivy cudgel for decent lead damage, very fast, and brick break for some guys tryna wack ogerpon up with a dark type steel type or other type lead. Power whip for some powerful no real drawback stab coverage. and rock tomb for a way to check flying types which ogerpon is crippled by.

Magearna: This one doesn't really need an indroduction on what i does. i feel the way i ev'd it and the way its used in battle kinda can speak for itself so all im gonna say is shift gear is a dangerous setup move and combined with mirror shot dazzling gleam and fleur cannon makes for a very dangerous mon. (P.S. The Iv's for attack should be 31 not 0)


Arceus Fighting: the support sweeper. Has shadow force for the ghosts who are immune to his fighting moves. judgement for fighting stab, bulk up to boost his offenses, and foul play for the pesky psychics.

Blaziken Mega: The Counter to Zacian C with its powerful fire stab and fighting stab for other legends with speed boost aswell making for a fast powerful stab sweeper.

 

[Tahz]

Hearthflame+physical mixed attackers: https://pokepast.es/2b8148800607ee6a

Groudon: now you might be wondering. Why is the groudon not primal and why tera grass? Well its supposed to be a check to the kyogres and various other legends. it has precipice to counter other primal groudon and also can bop reg groudon with its stab insta solar beam.

Annihilape: the setup sweeper that if your not careful can ruin the game. i packed this powerful enraged ghost monke with tera normal to elim the weaknesses on the ghost side and if faced with a fighting type, well, free rage fist damage. also if anyone trys to swap in a normal type, i can catch them with a crit stab cross chop or a stab close combat. And Earthquake for some extra coverage. (P.S. You can swap out life orb for leftovers if you want it to last longer).

Ogerpon Hearthflame: The Lead. has ivy cudgel for decent lead damage, very fast, and brick break for some guys tryna wack ogerpon up with a dark type steel type or other type lead. Power whip for some powerful no real drawback stab coverage. and rock tomb for a way to check flying types which ogerpon is crippled by.

Magearna: This one doesn't really need an indroduction on what i does. i feel the way i ev'd it and the way its used in battle kinda can speak for itself so all im gonna say is shift gear is a dangerous setup move and combined with mirror shot dazzling gleam and fleur cannon makes for a very dangerous mon. (P.S. The Iv's for attack should be 31 not 0)


Arceus Fighting: the support sweeper. Has shadow force for the ghosts who are immune to his fighting moves. judgement for fighting stab, bulk up to boost his offenses, and foul play for the pesky psychics.

Blaziken Mega: The Counter to Zacian C with its powerful fire stab and fighting stab for other legends with speed boost aswell making for a fast powerful stab sweeper.

is already a check to

is unviable in ndubers, if you want a ghost type sweeper, using is much better, although even that is not doing very well. not to mention the set you are using it not that of a set up sweeper, using two fighting moves and using a coverage move (earthquake which does not even help it much. a better moveset would be drain punch bulk up rage fist and rest (with chestoberry). If you still wanna use a life orb, use it deals great damage it benefits greatly with the new stellar type. (also marshadow learns bulkup but i like to run rocktomb on it to beat )

is another unviable mon in this team, and it fails to even beat the most popular lead, that being

is not a great arc form, you are also not running any special attack evs on it which makes its damage output low.

underrated mon IMO, but using mirrorshot here does not really makes sense, instead use flash cannon and probably change dazzling gleam to earthpower or calm mind.


Using defensive would have been a sufficient zacian counter, for your team i feel is much better compared to as it allows you to counter set up sweepers like and sometimes . it also allows you to defog.

 

[S0A0M0I0]

Hearthflame+physical mixed attackers: https://pokepast.es/2b8148800607ee6a

Groudon: now you might be wondering. Why is the groudon not primal and why tera grass? Well its supposed to be a check to the kyogres and various other legends. it has precipice to counter other primal groudon and also can bop reg groudon with its stab insta solar beam.

Annihilape: the setup sweeper that if your not careful can ruin the game. i packed this powerful enraged ghost monke with tera normal to elim the weaknesses on the ghost side and if faced with a fighting type, well, free rage fist damage. also if anyone trys to swap in a normal type, i can catch them with a crit stab cross chop or a stab close combat. And Earthquake for some extra coverage. (P.S. You can swap out life orb for leftovers if you want it to last longer)

Ogerpon Hearthflame: The Lead. has ivy cudgel for decent lead damage, very fast, and brick break for some guys tryna wack ogerpon up with a dark type steel type or other type lead. Power whip for some powerful no real drawback stab coverage. and rock tomb for a way to check flying types which ogerpon is crippled by.

Magearna: This one doesn't really need an indroduction on what i does. i feel the way i ev'd it and the way its used in battle kinda can speak for itself so all im gonna say is shift gear is a dangerous setup move and combined with mirror shot dazzling gleam and fleur cannon makes for a very dangerous mon. (P.S. The Iv's for attack should be 31 not 0)


Arceus Fighting: the support sweeper. Has shadow force for the ghosts who are immune to his fighting moves. judgement for fighting stab, bulk up to boost his offenses, and foul play for the pesky psychics.

Blaziken Mega: The Counter to Zacian C with its powerful fire stab and fighting stab for other legends with speed boost aswell making for a fast powerful stab sweeper.

No offense but this team sucks for NDUbers.

is just a bad Arceus form, comapred to , , , , even and are better than it. This set insta-loses to who can setup for free, as well as being destroyed by common attackers like , and . Shadow Force strategies are done much better by Dragon Dance as well, and if you have Shadow Force, you don't need Foul Play for Psychics.

is just outclassed by who's faster and stronger with arguably better STAB. I'm not sure why you're running both Cross Chop and Close Combat as well, why not Drain Punch? Also where's the setup, no Bulk Up? isn't very bulky for NDUbers standards, and is commonly 2hko'd by most neutral moves, so Rage Fist would only be 100 BP at best. You could've at least ran Defiant for leadsor ...

already checks with Desolate Land. If anything, even with Tera Grass, beats 1v1 because of Ice Beam. How does Solar Beam hit in rain? What's Ancient Power for? It can't even 3HKO Ho-oh let alone OHKO it. Fishing for boosts isn't worth it. Please use trust me it's way better.

What does Lead do exactly? It has no setup options like Spikes, you could've at least ran Encore but for some reason you didn't. It doesn't have Swords Dance either so it's pretty weak for NDUbers standards, and is basically setup fodder for pretty much everything. If you want a lead pokemon, use or or or anything else tbh.

is good, but not as a setup mon. It checks with Heart Swap. It's simply too hard to setup enough boosts with for it to be threatening, especially if you have no boosts to your Sp. Atk (no Calm Mind???) so you're just fast. Mirror Shot is a terrible move, just run Flash Cannon, and even then, setup doesn't run Flash Cannon either.

doesn't counter . Especially when it can just Tera Ground and eat Blaze Kick before OHKOing you back. If you want a check, then use or or , all of which are better than btw. Also, if you've got Blaze Kick, what's Fire Blast for? Why not protect or at least Swords Dance.

Alongside all of this, you have no hazards and no hazard removal, so any or even lead will destroy you.

 

[Ezael_Stormblood]

Now that the "big bads" are banned, I'm sure everyone's wondering the same thing: What's the New Big Bad?
Have no fear, I will illuminate you all!

It is Arceus!

Behold the latest product of Game Freak's buffs!

Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Force / Earthquake
- Taunt

In Gen 9, Arceus gained Taunt and Dragon Dance. Why? I don't know! What I do know is that there is no consistent counterplay to this strategy (outside of using multiple Unaware Pokemon).

Now, shall we ask ourselves, how do we stop such a monster?

The answer: absolutely not. This monster defeats all. It cannot be stopped. It cannot be whirlwinded. It cannot be ditto'd. It cannot be revenge killed by scarfers of any sort. It cannot be killed by priority. It cannot even be stopped by swapping between a Normal Type and a Ghost type!

It sets up in the face of all who attempt to check it. All it needs is one dragon dance to clean with Shadow Force. When you bring in your priority mon, lo and behold: it is now Ghost type and immune to your silly Extreme Speed. When you bring in your Ditto, it will simply Extreme Speed your Ditto. When you attempt to phase it or set up alongside it, in comes Taunt and more Dragon Dances.

If (when) it gets two dragon dances, it can no longer be stopped defensively. All but max defense Necrozma-Dusk-Mane are OHKOed by +2 STAB Shadow Force. Koraidon is ohkoed by the same Shadow Force, and outsped at +2 even if it is running Scarf.

Earthquake trades the power of Shadow Force for more sweeping consistency, hitting everything that resists Extreme Speed at least neutrally (outside of the rare Giratina-O). The Ghost Typing alone is enough to flip the game into Arceus's favor.

Arceus is coming for you. And when you least expect it.... it will Terastalyze into Ghost and run away with the game! Beware!

Hisuian Zoroark is chuckling at you right now, if you don't bring equake you can't touch it. oh and it has STABS that can hit you on either type.

 

[Ezael_Stormblood]

https://pokepast.es/5a244a1f40a77e2b also I need opinions people. I need to make this better.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Rage fist: exists

Rage Fist really isn't enough to justify using Annihilape over Marshadow. Annihilape's bulk for NDUbers standards is average at best, it's not really going to be able to just soak hits to get rage fist boosts like it could when it was legal in Natdex OU. Granted, Marshadow isn't bulky either, but unlike Annihilape it already has strong Ghost-type attacks from the get-go. It has a lot of other good stuff going for it too (Good speed, access to Technician Boosted Shadow Sneak, and reliable coverage for Ho-Oh).

 

[Tahz]

Hisuian Zoroark is chuckling at you right now, if you don't bring equake you can't touch it. oh and it has STABS that can hit you on either type.

Tera Stellar: What potential does it have in the tier?
I ran across someone using stellar tera life orb Marshadow and it made me start thinking about what other Pokemon in the tier might benefit from it. Any strong attacker that runs coverage and is starving for just that little bit extra power to get consistent OHKOs benefits from Stellar, but it's a matter of if this is worth losing the very significant utility of defensive tera.

Xerneas:
The boost from stellar tera has a lot of potential with Xerneas sets offensively.
+2 252 SpA Tera Stellar Xerneas Hidden Power Rock vs. 248 HP / 36 SpD Ho-Oh: 428-504 (103.1 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Tera Stellar Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 346-408 (101.4 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Tera Stellar Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 346-408 (85.6 - 100.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Tera Stellar Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 520-612 (117.1 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (up from 25% chance to OHKO)
Against defensive Necrozma-Dusk Mane, modest Stellar Moonblast into HP Ground is a guaranteed OHKO.

EKiller:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Giratina-Origin: 494-582 (98 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Ho-Oh: 382-450 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 398-471 (94.7 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (I'm not familiar with Zygarde EV spreads)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 491-580 (116.6 - 137.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (compared to 25% chance without tera)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 403-476 (90.7 - 107.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Deoxys-Attack:
252 Atk Tera Stellar Deoxys-Attack Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Ho-Oh: 408-480 (98.3 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Tera Stellar Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 368-434 (107.9 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tera Stellar Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 426-502 (105.4 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Other potential users: Calyrex-Ice, Weakness Policy Necrozma-Dusk Mane (to get a better chance to OHKO Groudon), Lunala, Yveltal, Rayquaza, and base Mewtwo
I think that Marshadow is the best user of Stellar Tera. It usually runs Tera Ghost anyway so it's not missing out on any crucial defensive tera like Xerneas, Arceus, or Calyrex-Ice might. The 20% boost to non-STAB moves makes Life Orb Rock Tomb a guaranteed OHKO on max phys bulk Ho-Oh (and also no bulk Yveltal after stealth rocks). Life Orb Stellar Tera Shadow Sneak does a satisfying 45.5-54.4% to Zacian. Lorb Low Kick becomes a guaranteed OHKO on no bulk Primal Kyogre, a 25% OHKO on no bulk Yveltal, and a guaranteed 2HKO on 252hp Primal Groudon.

For most of the previous Pokemon mentioned, losing defensive tera really hurts. EKiller without tera Ghost gets its sweep ended by Marshadow unless webs are up. Xerneas really likes tera Steel to resist Extreme Speed and Sunsteel Strike. Yveltal likes tera Dark for both the permanent power boost and losing its Rock weakness. Deoxys appreciates tera Ghost to gain an Extreme Speed immunity, but with tera Stellar it can beat counterlead EKillers. Calyrex-Ice has one of the worst defensive type combos in the game and really needs defensive tera to survive interactions with Marshadow, Yveltal, Zacian, and Arceus-Dark.
Overall, I think Stellar Tera has potential for many different wallbreakers and sweepers in the tier, and should be explored more.

The problem is that tera stellar is much more situational than the teras the above mons use, it only gives the boost once for each typing, not to mention a mon like electric need its tera for defensive reasons. (not to mention it needs the 1.5 boost on thunder to beat ). I have seen people use stellar and it works pretty well, but when the matches take longer, it lacks the power it needs.

 

[bumboclaat]

For what it is worth the benefit of

is that thunderbolt is an OHKO on so you don't need to risk that 30%. Personally I think it is a waste on most teams. barely requires any chip (10% or so) for to OHKO with HP

. Hell just toxicing the lets has a very high chance of OHKOing. +2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 396-468 (95.1 - 112.5%) <--- after one turn of toxic chip.

Also yeah is entirely unviable. The bulk is average at best even when maxed out so it can't tank hits to power up rage fist because it has no resists. Then it also isn't strong because ubers is way bulkier than OU. It is a shame because it is my second favourite pokemon

 

[Tahz]

For what it is worth the benefit of View attachment 585127 is that thunderbolt is an OHKO on so you don't need to risk that 30%. Personally I think it is a waste on most teams. barely requires any chip (10% or so) for to OHKO with HPView attachment 585130. Hell just toxicing the lets has a very high chance of OHKOing. +2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 396-468 (95.1 - 112.5%) <--- after one turn of toxic chip.

Also yeah is entirely unviable. The bulk is average at best even when maxed out so it can't tank hits to power up rage fist because it has no resists. Then it also isn't strong because ubers is way bulkier than OU. It is a shame because it is my second favourite pokemon

thunderbolt still doesn't ohko, hp rock is better in every way

 

[bumboclaat]

+2 252+ SpA Tera Electric Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 432-510 (104 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO . The main reason to use tera elect thunderbolt is because it does OHKO. I agree that HP rock is better though.

 

[R8]

Tera elec thunderbolt guarantees the 2HKO against necrozma-dm though, so I'd argue that even if it is the most tera reliant it might be the better one

 

[Tahz]

Tera elec thunderbolt guarantees the 2HKO against necrozma-dm though, so I'd argue that even if it is the most tera reliant it might be the better one

+2 focus blast ohkos

 

[R8]

+2 focus blast ohkos

It doesn't
+2 252+ SpA Tera Fighting Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 188 SpD Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 339-400 (85.3 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
And it's also the famously inaccurate focus blast

 

[Tahz]

It doesn't
+2 252+ SpA Tera Fighting Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 188 SpD Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 339-400 (85.3 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
And it's also the famously inaccurate focus blast

ah my bad, I think I was ohkoing unecro sets then which didn't burst so it didn't get oneshotted with moonblast

 

[phalap]

First post wooooooo (idk if this is the right place to do it)
So I built my first decent (and somewhat weird) team and laddered with it: Sticky web and surf Rayquaza
I would like some opinions on it. (Btw I didn't calc at all when doing this)
Peak:

Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/0bc3c2eb5e41a985 (idk if this works cause first post)

Shuckle: Knock off is for team support to ensure they don't outspeed/ohko some mons on my team or break sash/prism armor. Toxic was there for bulkier mons that would attempt to switch in or as a last option after I had already used everything else it was also nice if I couldn't get up stealth rock and still needed to break a sash/prism armor which was nice. In hindsight I could have used encore instead to give setup opportunities for zacian in particular.
I NEVER LED THIS. NDM using sunsteel strike, Giratina/Ho-oh/Yveltal using defog, Glimmora using mortal spin makes it pointless to lead it when you can have a surprise factor of leading something more threatening immediately like Groudon/Kyorge/Raquaza/Zacian. It was a reason why I almost always ran max speed as it would let me speed tie in dire situations and give me a win condition or allow me to extend my lead to sometimes game-winning situations without being punished heavily.
I can't stress how reliant red card is. It basically ruins boosted zygarde, boosted xerneas (that matchup was terrible otherwise), boosted Groudon sometimes, boosted zacian, boosted ULNDM, etc... Getting the second chance is crucial and another reason not to lead it.

Primal Kyorge: Kyorge was probably the weakest of the team, but that wasn't a bad thing. I just used a bog standard 4 attack set and it did the job well. I originally had earthquake over water spout because I was inspired by an FSG video on Kyorge in which they mentioned Kyorge luring in Primal Groudon before chunking it for huge damage, but I decided not to after realizing how little damage it did in reality because of my lack of attack investment. If set up correctly, you can just click water spout and win the game as long as you kill Groudon beforehand.

Groudon: I just used a standard set for the most part. I originally had heat crash over stone edge mostly for NDM and Zacian, but my Ho-oh match up was concerning so I used it. I also used to use precipice blades but found more consistency with earthquake instead. Similar to Kyorge, you can sometimes just win by clicking eruption, which also made it a nice lead option.

Rayquaza: In my laddering, I found that I was the only person on ladder using special rayquaza. At this point in team building, I realized my Groudon matchup was terrible, so I needed a check to it. I did not like Arceus water or ground mainly because of the duplicate typing with the primals. Zygarde and other Arceus checks felt awkward to use especially since I did not have the resources to know what sets were popular and my lack of experience. Ho-oh was forced to run heavy duty boots and got OHKOed from stone edge Groudon. Giratina and Lugia lacked the offense to synergies well with my team. As I remembered another FSG video detailing the use of Waterfall Raquaza to counter Groudon, I tried it on ladder and failed miserably. The main issue was the lack of consistency, as it was a roll to kill if I didn't use band. Then on low ladder another rayquaza user used surf and they told me consistency of it. I added it to my team and used sash to ensure that there was only one way for Groudon to win the 1v1 (Hard switch Ray into stealth rock + stone edge/dragon claw) Overheat is for a better NDM + Zacian matchup and Draco is for Eternatus/chipped Zygarde/Mega mence. E-speed is nice for cleaning and my only priority move.
ALMOST NEVER TERA THIS THING (not worth)

Zacian: I just used another standard set. Tera flying was to improve my Groudon matchup while getting another opportunity to swords dance. I tried close combat and sacred sword for a while, but it made my Ho-oh match-up horrendous and worsened my kyorge one. I saw 0 Ferrothorn and even then I had counters to it (cough cough Groudon). This has a weird matchup into Marshadow which I will get to later.

Calyrex-Ice: This was by far the mon that swept the most in my climb. I used a basic set with close combat over swords dance. Having cc was my only true way to hit blissy, chancy, and ek extremely hard (ohko-ed ek after a kill) trick room also made some matchups flip on their heads (Shuckle against anything and primals into speedy wallbreakers especially). It was also a surprise factor and added another dimension to the team I lacked also the only mons that could underspeed even under webs are bulky mons (countered by my other mons most of the time) + melmetal (which always runs min speed so don't set trick room up). By far the best late game mon on my team. Tera fire is SO CRUCIAL to getting the trick room up or surviving big hits like +2 xerneas moonblast or marshadow ANYTHING.

Strengths:
It has a lot of surprise factors and unique synergies in my opinion that can catch opponents off guard and win games off it alone.
Main ones:
Webs + trick room
surf ray
Minor ones:
cc calyrex
stone edge ho-oh
wild charge zacian
overheat + Draco ray

It also has a decent primals matchup and has at least 2 counters/checks to everything in S+ to at least B- (might not be completely accurate)
Weaknesses: (worst matchups)
Dondozo: The typing and natural bulk allows it to survive hits from everything except for Kyorge. Unaware prevents zacian sweep and rest stops toxic from working. This matchup requires you to have Kyorge otherwise you will have a rough time.

Setup sweepers in general: (not as bad)
They require you to have either Calyrex or Shuckle in the back to prevent the sweep from occurring. Most people who see calyrex will use their super effective move on it and will force you to tera and set up trick room. Shuckle does not work for NDM and ULNDM in any way. It's not the worse matchup, but when played carelessly can lead to losing streaks (I would know).

Post script: I reached top 100 with 1646 Elo.

 

[bumboclaat]

Hey glad you're getting into the tier and the forums. If you're interested we have started a teambuilding competition recently which can be found here. Also if you scroll up to the top of the page there is a link to the NDUbers discord where lots of people are always happy to chat about the tier and is a fair bit more active than the forum.

Shuckle: Knock off is for team support to ensure they don't outspeed/ohko some mons on my team or break sash/prism armor. Toxic was there for bulkier mons that would attempt to switch in or as a last option after I had already used everything else it was also nice if I couldn't get up stealth rock and still needed to break a sash/prism armor which was nice. In hindsight I could have used encore instead to give setup opportunities for zacian in particular.
I NEVER LED THIS. NDM using sunsteel strike, Giratina/Ho-oh/Yveltal using defog, Glimmora using mortal spin makes it pointless to lead it when you can have a surprise factor of leading something more threatening immediately like Groudon/Kyorge/Raquaza/Zacian. It was a reason why I almost always ran max speed as it would let me speed tie in dire situations and give me a win condition or allow me to extend my lead to sometimes game-winning situations without being punished heavily.
I can't stress how reliant red card is. It basically ruins boosted zygarde, boosted xerneas (that matchup was terrible otherwise), boosted Groudon sometimes, boosted zacian, boosted ULNDM, etc... Getting the second chance is crucial and another reason not to lead it.

Most of 's niche comes from its ability to guarantee webs go up thanks to mental herb shaking off taunt. Yeah it can be a bit inconsistent but that is the nature of HO. Yeah the phasing is nice but it is generally going to be much better to get up your hazards and keep up offensive pressure. The main reason you lead is to ensure that sturdy actually stays intact. Yeah encore is the standard for a reason. Not really sure what is knocking that actually cares about being knocked. Sure will lose its boots but it doesn't care because it won't need them as isn't coming back in to get rocks a second time.

If you're looking for the sort of thing you've described in the second paragraph maybe a bulky offence or balance team is more your style. Sacrificing webs + rocks to phase the / generally isn't worth it, especially who will be outsped by / if webs are up. generally doesn't care much about being phased since it is happy to come back in later and do its thing as it hasn't really been stopped, just potentially delayed.

Primal Kyorge: Kyorge was probably the weakest of the team, but that wasn't a bad thing. I just used a bog standard 4 attack set and it did the job well. I originally had earthquake over water spout because I was inspired by an FSG video on Kyorge in which they mentioned Kyorge luring in Primal Groudon before chunking it for huge damage, but I decided not to after realizing how little damage it did in reality because of my lack of attack investment. If set up correctly, you can just click water spout and win the game as long as you kill Groudon beforehand.

Yeah you are right about physical . It was a set from gen 7 that has seen some usage in NDUbers but it really isn't very good. Calm mind over thunder is an option to take advantage of the switches forces. You're really overstating how often a water spout sweep should be happening, especially with this team as this team has no hazard control so is rarely ever going to actually ever be firing off full powered spouts. It is also outsped and/or threatened by members you're going to find on every single team. against this team really should only be coming against / and it will let the rest of the team handle the other mons. Sure you can ice beam everytime swithes in, but past the first time you're likely going to be taking hazard chip as it will force out.

Groudon: I just used a standard set for the most part. I originally had heat crash over stone edge mostly for NDM and Zacian, but my Ho-oh match up was concerning so I used it. I also used to use precipice blades but found more consistency with earthquake instead. Similar to Kyorge, you can sometimes just win by clicking eruption, which also made it a nice lead option.

I'm wondering what set you used originally becuase does not exactly take a +2 heat crash well. Regardless, really should not be running both eruption and overheat. SD/ Blades / Heat Crash / Rock polish, stone edge, rock tomb, whatever else would fit a lot better. Running two fire moves is heavily crippling . Overheat is usually found on defensive sets and eruption sets usually have heavy SpA investment.

Rayquaza: In my laddering, I found that I was the only person on ladder using special rayquaza. At this point in team building, I realized my Groudon matchup was terrible, so I needed a check to it. I did not like Arceus water or ground mainly because of the duplicate typing with the primals. Zygarde and other Arceus checks felt awkward to use especially since I did not have the resources to know what sets were popular and my lack of experience. Ho-oh was forced to run heavy duty boots and got OHKOed from stone edge Groudon. Giratina and Lugia lacked the offense to synergies well with my team. As I remembered another FSG video detailing the use of Waterfall Raquaza to counter Groudon, I tried it on ladder and failed miserably. The main issue was the lack of consistency, as it was a roll to kill if I didn't use band. Then on low ladder another rayquaza user used surf and they told me consistency of it. I added it to my team and used sash to ensure that there was only one way for Groudon to win the 1v1 (Hard switch Ray into stealth rock + stone edge/dragon claw) Overheat is for a better NDM + Zacian matchup and Draco is for Eternatus/chipped Zygarde/Mega mence. E-speed is nice for cleaning and my only priority move.
ALMOST NEVER TERA THIS THING (not worth)

Calyrex-Ice: This was by far the mon that swept the most in my climb. I used a basic set with close combat over swords dance. Having cc was my only true way to hit blissy, chancy, and ek extremely hard (ohko-ed ek after a kill) trick room also made some matchups flip on their heads (Shuckle against anything and primals into speedy wallbreakers especially). It was also a surprise factor and added another dimension to the team I lacked also the only mons that could underspeed even under webs are bulky mons (countered by my other mons most of the time) + melmetal (which always runs min speed so don't set trick room up). By far the best late game mon on my team. Tera fire is SO CRUCIAL to getting the trick room up or surviving big hits like +2 xerneas moonblast or marshadow ANYTHING.

Going to lump the and sections together as it is easier to address them that way. You are correct in that you are probably the only person running special . There is a reason for it, it is not good. If you're running special to beat why not run which beats it anyways. is an absolutely nuclear threat which murks anyways even without waterfall (which is not worth running in my opinion anyways).

dragon ascent absolutely murks everything that isn't which gets roasted by v create. Your extremespeeds will actually hurt since it is attack invested and can revenge things from a reasonable range. U-turn gives you momentum. It doesn't really need anything more than that. Oh and

dragon ascent 2hkos . I'll get into the stall matchup in a little bit. It 2hkos without tera so that isn't a switchin either. I kind of doubt this answers particularly well given that the sash is rarely going to be intact anyways. was a mon that came to mind as something that fairly easily dismantles this team with rocks up and some light chip.

If is not going to be should be. is really the only set worth running at the moment in my opinion. I recently wrote about

Caly I

The most fun I have ever had in the tier is when I decided to build a team. I thought maybe it would be a bit of fun going in but it surpassed my wildest expectations. Perhaps most surprising thing is that it was almost never deadweight, trading at worst. Although the movepool is sparse, it has everything that it needs. Glacial lance 2hkos at worst every mon in the tier baring fat. High horsepower hits and is something to click v fat when you want to preserve lance pp. Trick essentially ends the game v stall / fat balance, and gives you leftovers or boots which are quite nice. Aroma obviously heals the team and isn't often clicked but does help a lot v stall and as a one time heal if needed v balance. Leech seed is an option over aromatherapy, but I am not a big fan.

The horse simply doesn't get ohko'd unless it is an incredibly powerful super effective move. For example, heat crash from 28+ is a 5% chance to 2HKO. 252+ needs water spout to ohko since origin pulse maxes at 88%. Its tera is also relatively free. I perfer

for / but any tera with a defensive purpose to fit your team will work.

is overkill with the possible exception of a full TR team. If needs a

boost to break stuff with it is being used incorrectly. There are so many times where i've thought is not going to do squat this game so might as well lead it and just get some damage. It'll then get 2+ kos.

There are two reasons is B+ and not A-. The first is the level of support it requires. It isn't much, but it is not the type of mon you slap on a team. It needs defog support since it leverages its bulk to do its job. This is not a tough ask, but keeping rocks off the field for is more important than for a mon like . The second is its speed. Yes it has the bulk to take nearly any hit, but unless you're facing stall it is going to be taking one before it dishes it out and it generally isn't going to be taking more than 3-4 in a non stall match. This is a flaw that no amount of team support is going to fix. Sure it learns agility but it really needs that extra oomph from to get the ball rolling and missing kos is something it can't really afford to be doing.

When I made my team i did consider

, but for different reasons. It was due to the burn immunity, other than that

does not offer any signifcant advantage over

. Most importantly perhaps for you, it still has the same utility against . The problem with TR is that it takes too many turns to get its kill and boost. By then it is incredibly chipped and TR is over so it is just hoping that it can dodge an attack. Close combat is really not needed due to the sheer power of . High horsepower is runbecause well exists and lance only has 8 pp. This leaves you with two free slots which usually go to trick and aromatherapy. At some point you'll likely trick the which is what makes it quite easy to break a lot of stall teams if played well. Aromatherapy helps against the team being worn down and the toxic immunity from

shines the most against stall teams.

The mons it has issues with arn't //. It ohkos the blobs with lance and really doesn't want to try to duke it out due to 's natural bulk means it can can eat +2 espeed comfortably and it isn't like can switch in the first place (funny replay I have of it attempting to do just that). This is a replay v Weirdhamster's TTar Stall (not him, he would have played much better). And one v some meh fat balance. I am not a fan of the last team but it should suffice to show how deals with stall. It is more unfriendly to than most stalls as both and (I've literally never ran into it elsehwere but this match makes me think it has potential if it uses an actual good set) are excellent switchins compared to usually just . The mons most fears, rather unsurprisingly are / Neither of them switch in and can tera out of its dark weakness, but is going to be left with very little hp and still fears status/sucker punch respectively. You're right that

turns the tables on :zacian-crowned (sometimes I'll get to that in the section), if you

add to this list for the same reasons (this team really really struggles with it). The problem is that you arn't always going to want to tera . And if your gameplan to deal with these rests largely or solely on you're likely going to have problems with a few of their teamates.

The main reason I grouped these together is that I think you should drop one of / and put a on the one you keep. is likely the better option due to really wanting a level of defensive support that webs is unable to provide.

Zacian: I just used another standard set. Tera flying was to improve my Groudon matchup while getting another opportunity to swords dance. I tried close combat and sacred sword for a while, but it made my Ho-oh match-up horrendous and worsened my kyorge one. I saw 0 Ferrothorn and even then I had counters to it (cough cough Groudon). This has a weird matchup into Marshadow which I will get to later.

I'm not really sure how close combat and sacred sword effect the match up. Behemoth blade into wild charge will always kill unless it wants to tera. It does the same to fat with rocks and wild charge outright OHKOs wallbreaker variants. For a while now largely has 3 of its moves already set in stone. SD/Behemoth Blade / Wild Charge should be on every set. You can run play rough over blade, but it is less consistent. You do not want to run dual stab as well that leaves you without a good way to hit or . The last slot is a choice between

close combat which gives you very strong neutral coverage (OHKO's with a spike up) or fully committing and using tera blast

.

is the scariest set as it allows it to blow past groudon-primal: but the committment to teraing and dead moveslot that you may need is a downside. It does however fit this team quite well and is worth considering.

does not do anything for yes it will avoid the ground move but it is still going to be 2hko'd by most decently powerful attacks. really wants a tera which it benefits from offensively. It has ok bulk, but really relies on its typing so if you're going to change it there needs to be an offensive benefit to it.

has been pretty close to nonexistent for a while now on ladder. Yeah switches in but it doesn't partiularly like switching in and getting leeched and then the coinflip of whether it should attack or switch out in case protects and takes 25% of its hp. I'm not particularly sure what issues has with beyond getting into shadow sneak range. +1 blade ohkos and does not run a

resistant tera.

Strengths:
It has a lot of surprise factors and unique synergies in my opinion that can catch opponents off guard and win games off it alone.
Main ones:
Webs + trick room
surf ray
Minor ones:
cc calyrex
stone edge ho-oh
wild charge zacian
overheat + Draco ray

It certainly does have a lot of surprise factors, but a surprise also needs to work. TR is probably the best example as it doesn't actually beat . switches in on the geomancy turn and

to set up TR taking about half from moonblast. It is then going to ko'd by HP Rock the next turn and glacial lance will leave with a decent chunk of health. Yes something will revenge it, but you've given up your tera, a mon, and then whatever you use to revenge the is going to be in a tough spot because there are a couple turns of TR left and the webs means that your opponent will likely have something to underspeed and hurt it.

Surf is in a similar boat as very rarely if ever wants to stay in v a due to water coverage being somewhat common but also not wanting to take a dragon ascent. Sure this wants to hit on its more vulnerable special side, but that attack is rarely going to actually hit because it will fear either the water move or dragon ascent. Once you fire off an attack your opponent is going to realize that the isn't banded because it isn't actually hitting all that hard. Or at least as hard as you expect to hit.

The biggest surprise would be knock on or the special that loses to . One of the things you'll notice as you climb further up the ladder is that your opponents will generally have a far more risk adverse playstyle and will frequently scout for a lot of the things you've listed. very frequently runs rock coverage specifically for and it would be surprising to see it drop it on a webs team as it maintains webs v the best hazard removal in the tier. faces a similar conundrum as your oponent is going to be playing around . Since lacks both SD and a things with some bulk. Again is functionally 3hko'd thanks to regen. This makes it quite feasible for it to find the turns to heal back up.

I'm a fan of heat, but heat with a purpose. One of my favourite teams is a + TR team.

It also has a decent primals matchup and has at least 2 counters/checks to everything in S+ to at least B- (might not be completely accurate)
Weaknesses: (worst matchups)
Dondozo: The typing and natural bulk allows it to survive hits from everything except for Kyorge. Unaware prevents zacian sweep and rest stops toxic from working. This matchup requires you to have Kyorge otherwise you will have a rough time.

Setup sweepers in general: (not as bad)
They require you to have either Calyrex or Shuckle in the back to prevent the sweep from occurring. Most people who see calyrex will use their super effective move on it and will force you to tera and set up trick room. Shuckle does not work for NDM and ULNDM in any way. It's not the worse matchup, but when played carelessly can lead to losing streaks (I would know).

Regarding what you've written about , this set can beat it but is going to have a hell of a rough time doing so essentially solo.

"It also has a decent primals matchup and has at least 2 counters/checks to everything in S+ to at least B- (might not be completely accurate)"

There should never be a team in any tier at any point that is able to describe itself this way outside of maybe gen 1. If a team like that existed there would likely be huge issues with the tier itself. I think the team, with some adjustments in sets, and dropping one of / would make it a lot better. As it stands it has a very hard time against bulky offence, balance, and stall. A huge part of this is that it is hard to extert enough offensive pressure to maintain hazards. can fog on every single member and is happy to trade most of its health to do so because it will only need to do once. can and will find a turn to fog.

Last, I noticed you've mentioned FSG a few times and whilst their content is generally great courtesy of having BKC the GOAT as their writer, their content on modern gens is not always the most accurate. It is something to keep in mind. I'm going to put it in a spoiler to not take this post take up 10 pages of space but I'll point out some mons I think this team has a lot of issues with. I'll stick to the A ranks and maybe a couple of lower ranked mons

Rough Matchups

• Generally handles well enough though it does not like rock polish sets
• It really hates . It is going to glare half the team, switch out and come back later. It only really hates it can deal with everything else. It isn't going to solo but will leave enough wreckage in its wake that something else will clean up. is not going to much of anything once it teras
  
  /
  
• This team doesn't like t spikes but most offensive teams don't. It really hates offensive though, especially . This is a big reason to consider
  
  
• No team likes facing as it has some set that can goob every team. However, for an HO the way to revenge it is an uninvested extreme speed which is going to hit like a limp noodle since it is now free to invest in as much bulk as it wants to due to no longer existing.
• Mentioned fogging earlier. A lot of teams will be happy to pop
  
  to fog and will likely do so v anyways.
• heavily depends if you can maintan webs. If you can it is very managable if not it is a huge threat.
• Prevents your hazards with taunt and will likely take a primal and a half. is a switchin but it likely will not be keen early game.
• Incredibly scary at +1 and usually runs eq so doesn't like it.
• + a fogger. Same thing as above but even scarier b/c makes no difference as it isn't tanking a stone edge regardless of tera
• is great against offence though does check it. If it can drag in mid-early game to get rid of the boost it will be spooky late game.
• outspeeds everything but and can revenge everything. Threat level depends on if you can maintain webs
• as I mentioned above it will happily trade most of its hp to fog and its teammates will love it.
• is an honourary mention. Its the best it has ever been and it is incredibly scary to load into if you have on your team.
• Any B/C stallmon. The team looses hard to stall. With some moveset changes that matchup can be workable though.

 

[Tahz]

I have recently been using quite a lot, tera flying makes it so that it literally has no switch ins, paired with twave spam it's pretty potent. below are a few calcs.

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Flying Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 284-336 (56.3 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Flying Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 56+ Def Groudon-Primal: 254-300 (63 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 298-352 (74.8 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre-Primal: 252-297 (62.5 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Flying Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 274-324 (65.3 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Flying Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 274-324 (43.1 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Flying Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Ho-Oh: 350-414 (84.3 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Flying Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 374-440 (84.8 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

tho be aware of 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Flying Rayquaza: 192-227 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Pokemons like with coil , , , and defensive with any two of the mons running para can assist rayquaza with speed control.

 

[galaxystudios]

is really the only set worth running at the moment in my opinion.

gonna throw tectonic rage tr into the mix again, this can actually chain kills and get the ko on xerneas after tera
also gets pdon and dusk mane necrozma at +1
tera ice is definitely overkill no matter what set you're using, during the time I used boots I went tera water.

 

[bumboclaat]

gonna throw tectonic rage tr into the mix again, this can actually chain kills and get the ko on xerneas after tera
also gets pdon and dusk mane necrozma at +1
tera ice is definitely overkill no matter what set you're using, during the time I used boots I went tera water.

The biggest issue I have with is that it has all the downsides of with very few upsides. I don't see how you actually fit on anything baring trick room which I believe it borderline viable at best. You still take hazard damage and if you arn't running a TR team it is still going to die in a couple hits. At the same time it has a lot of trouble actually getting that +1 due to the oomph that has. Additionally you can't make use of a defensive tera to nab kos against offensive threats in a pinch.

Yes it deals with defensive , but that set has fallen off quite hard recently. Rather unexpectedly, it feels worse than in the meta. It is a / check that struggles to actually check them.

/

both beat it. It really struggles to fit earthquake which means that it doesn't actually check most after it teras either due to a sunsteel resistance or substitute. Defensive DD generally does what defensive is supposed to do while exerting offensive pressure instead of being incredibly passive. Defensive isn't a bad pokemon at the moment, but feels quite mid. It fits if you want to make a hazard stacking balance, but does face competition from in that regard.

On a related note, does OHKO most outright and will OHKO every geomancy set after rocks chip.

is valid if you're running full TR due to giving it multiple lives negates the issues with

and the extra power allows it to break through essentially anything whilst under TR. Each time TR is set up again you have a full health

ready to claim another couple of KOs.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Entirely unrelated, has anybody been gravitating towards any cores recently when building?

I've really been enjoying (clickable) as a defensive backbone on balance builds. These three amigos by themselves defensively check a huge portion of the meta whilst also being incredibly flexible in what you can pair them with. You can quite easily create both more offensive and fatter balances with this core due to the defensive support they offer. It isn't an immovable core that handles every single mon, but is a great starting point. + breaker + fast or priority mon + a 6th is a general structure that has worked very well for me when testing out mons such as and .

 

[S0A0M0I0]

The biggest issue I have with is that it has all the downsides of with very few upsides. I don't see how you actually fit on anything baring trick room which I believe it borderline viable at best. You still take hazard damage and if you arn't running a TR team it is still going to die in a couple hits. At the same time it has a lot of trouble actually getting that +1 due to the oomph that has. Additionally you can't make use of a defensive tera to nab kos against offensive threats in a pinch.

Yes it deals with defensive , but that set has fallen off quite hard recently. Rather unexpectedly, it feels worse than in the meta. It is a / check that struggles to actually check them. View attachment 593493/View attachment 593494 both beat it. It really struggles to fit earthquake which means that it doesn't actually check most after it teras either due to a sunsteel resistance or substitute. Defensive DD generally does what defensive is supposed to do while exerting offensive pressure instead of being incredibly passive. Defensive isn't a bad pokemon at the moment, but feels quite mid. It fits if you want to make a hazard stacking balance, but does face competition from in that regard.

On a related note, does OHKO most outright and will OHKO every geomancy set after rocks chip. View attachment 593496 is valid if you're running full TR due to giving it multiple lives negates the issues with View attachment 593497 and the extra power allows it to break through essentially anything whilst under TR. Each time TR is set up again you have a full health View attachment 593498 ready to claim another couple of KOs.
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Entirely unrelated, has anybody been gravitating towards any cores recently when building?

I've really been enjoying (clickable) as a defensive backbone on balance builds. These three amigos by themselves defensively check a huge portion of the meta whilst also being incredibly flexible in what you can pair them with. You can quite easily create both more offensive and fatter balances with this core due to the defensive support they offer. It isn't an immovable core that handles every single mon, but is a great starting point. + breaker + fast or priority mon + a 6th is a general structure that has worked very well for me when testing out mons such as and .

I like the , , core. Does pretty well against most mons in the tier apart from , which tera or can handle. Its not crazy good, but I think its neat

 

[Ultraman1]

PSYSPAM (Peak 1799 elo )
I dunno much English but I will put my team here :
https://pokepast.es/d9cb4b03ead209b7
random replays : https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2037302390-2i4kuoxsojh4laspeaaxxx0c046qfqmpw

This is my current Psyspam team with some gimmick mons such as Sneasler (funny sweeper with hax from Dire Claws and surprise factor in Rock Slide to bait Ho-Oh ) and Corviknight (fringe slow bulky pivot allows team to bring powerful attackers to the battlefield safely ) . Flutter Mane Booster Energy + Taunt is a great anti-lead and a potential fantastic mid-late game sweeper . Deoxys-A is just so ridiculous with the new tool : Expanding Force , ready to nuke a lot of common neutral targets in the tier . Finally , Groudon is a Rock setter , i dunno how to customize EV properly lol . My team still has some flaws , hope you guys to make my team even better .