Raining on ignorance

[djtoxic]

Hello Smogonites, this is my 3rd RMT in here, and my first 5th gen one. The title of the RMT tells that I'm pretty ignorant about 5th gen, and yeah, that this is a rain team XD. This time, I'm having quite a lot more problems than I had with my almost perfect 4th gen team and have been trying lots of teams with different strategies, and so far, my most succesful ones (not as succesful as my 4th gen team, but meh) have been a Sandstorm based team and a Drizzle team. So far, after what I've seen watching battles and battling myself, the most succesful teams are weather based, so I'm in constant research for improving both of my weather teams, and I decided to work mainly on the Drizzle one. So here I am, wide open for suggestions, critics, personal insults pointed at my intelligence, etc.,...

So without further ado, let's start with this RMT:

Team at a Glance:

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Team Building:

Choosing Politoed wasn't hard at all, it is a 5th gen rain team, so... yeah

Then I had to choose some rain sweepers, and I know two guys who excel at it. First, MR. LT. DR. rain sweeping, Manaphy.

And then, everyone's favourite samba dancer, Ludicolo. Its typing is good for coverage stabs, and he's a swift swimmer.

Almost a must have on every drizzle team, Zapdos with its 100% accuracy Thunder under the rain, and getting boosted everytime someone feels like OHKOing my water pokes, yeah, get in.

Then after a while of theorymon, Tentacruel just popped in my mind for no apparent reason. Then I reflex about it. Toxic Spike support. Rapid Spinner. Specially bulky (complements my physically bulky Zapdos). Neutral to grass. K come in too.

Then I remembered some wise words from another Drizzle team RMT. "Never lead with politoed against other weather teams you are unsure about". So I needed an optional leader, an anti-lead. But I found out I also needed a revenge killer for emergency situations (like, Ludicolo's dead). So this guy can fill this spot.


In Depth:

Polybius (F/Politoed)@Leftovers

Ability: Drizzle (DW)
EV's: 252 HP/176 Def/80 SDef
IV's: 0 Spd
Nature: Relaxed (+Def -Spd)

- Toxic
- Protect
- Perish Song
- Encore

Politoed, the weather starter poke, in this case, a bulky stall version. I chose Toxic + Protect for the classic Toxic Stall, Perish Song to cause switches and to wreak baton passers. And Encore helps in some situations against walls and stallers. Nothing is funnier than getting somebody encored to twave, switch to Zapdos and cause some chaos. This poke is pure taunt bait, but I don't really care, if something is a hard candidate to have taunt, I gtfo and come back when I can. Hey, rain is up anyway right?.

Considered changes:
Anything related to movepool and maybe EV spread. I want him to be slow so I can get my weather up against every weather setter (bar Hippowdon).

Neophy (N/Manaphy)@Life Orb

Ability: Hydration
EV's: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd
Nature: Timid (+SpA -Atk)

- Tail Glow
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest

What can I say about Manaphy that you don't already know?. This is quite a standard set. Just like Doryuuzu or Scizor, this almost needs no explanation. Tail Glow on something that's going to switch or you can set-up on, mostly in late-game, and rape some faces. Manaphy's most notable weakness is against faster TBolt/Grass moves users, like Starmie, Skymin or Scarfed pokes, and in some rare cases, priority users, so before any set-up sweep, I try to take out those first.

Considered Changes:
None. If he ever becomes uber, will probably switch him with CM Kerudio.

Sombrero (M/Ludicolo)@Choice Specs

Ability: Swift Swim
EV's: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd
Nature: Timid (+Spd -Atk)

- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast

Ol' Ludicolo. Swift Swim and Choice Specs make an excellent combination, he's able to perfom early-game sweep as well as mid-game. Can revenge kill if necessary. The only things that really stop him are SDef walls, however so far I haven't had any problems with other Tentacruel or Burungeru, maybe I havent faced them enough times, but meh, my little bug can take care of them I guess. Surf and Giga Drain are for STABs, plus giga can help when somebody has weakened him (an above average SDef helps him take a hit or two), and both Ice Beam and Focus Blast are for coverage.

Considered changes:
Maybe the nature, I'm not sure how many pokes would outspeed under certain conditions, so Timid is just for precaution. And I'm not 100% sure about Focus Blast, but Ludicolo's special movepool is not really that special. Maybe a Hidden Power?

Zapper (N/Zapdos)@Leftovers

Ability: Lightningrod
EV's: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Nature: Bold (+Def -Atk)

- Thunder
- HP Ground
- Roost
- Protect

A physically defensive Zapdos. Quite an addition for any Drizzle team. Lightingrod helps a lot by absorbing those nasty electric attacks against my water pokes, and allowing me to sweep... with a wall (I love bulky offense :D). Thunder under the rain, nuff said. HP Ground is replacing Thunder Wave, because after I faced a couple Jolteons, being locked out as Zapdos as my last poke, is not funny. Roost gives me solid healing, and resistance to rock moves, as well as allowing me to out-pp (?) slow stone edge users. Protect buys me another turn most of the time. There are quite a lot of attacks that can 2HKO me, but one protect and even haxy 2 allow me take 3 hits, effectively buying me sweeping time.

Considered changes:
A solid poke, but I don't know, I'm open to any kind of suggestions (replacement, movepool, ev's spread, etc....)

Squidward(F/Tentacruel)@Leftovers

Ability: Liquid Ooze
EV's: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
Nature: Calm (+SDef -Atk)

- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Boil Over
- Confuse Ray

Burungeru's older brother, bulky water in all its glory, SDef wall Tentacruel. Capable to absorb toxic spikes and lay my own, rapid spinning any hazard, boil over for some damage and the possibility for a burn, and confuse ray for some haxing. Liquid Ooze allows me to use him as a Roopushin, Giga Drainer and Leech seed counter, actually, Roopushin is the reason of the Def investment. The only poke I have problems against if F-ing Espeon. That damn thing ruins my whole strategy, it can get really annoying, and if it's a set-up sweeper version, even worse.

Considered changes:
Although it perfoms well, any kind of suggestions are welcome.

Gensketta (N/Genosekuto)@Choice Scarf

Ability: Download
EV's: 16 HP/240 SpA/252 Spd
Nature: Hasty (+Spd -Def)

- Bug Buzz
- U-Turn
- Explosion
- Psychic

This guy right here there are a couple of words that work wonders describing him: F-cking amazing. Download makes him a wonderful mixed attacker, Bug Buzz and U-Turn for great Special/Physical stabs plus the ability to scout, Explosion to take down SDef walls and why not, big threats. Psychic gives great coverage and makes him capable of OHKOing those nasty Fighting pokes, namely Breloom, Machamp, Roobushin, Kerudio, and many others, alongside other very nasty ghosts (problem, Shanderaa?). Having rain up to protect him from fire, Zapdos to take the ground and fighting hits, he doesn't have to worry from dying early.

Considered changes:
None. But open to suggestions. Just one thing, I do not plan on going boltbeam with this guy.


Final thoughts:

This is a great team, unfornately, a lot of times more theoretically than practically, due to my n00bishness about 5th gen, so please Smogon, enlighten me in everything I should and need to know.


Changelog:

- Fixed Tentacruel EV's and nature from 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef, Bold (+Def -Atk) to 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef, Calm (+SDef -Atk). Thanks Giara.

PS: My native language is not english, if you see a typo, or can't understand something, please tell me and I'll do my best to improve it.

 

[FlashDrive]

liquid ooze is really helpful, but i just thought i should mention that if you gave Tentacruel raindish, it becomes a lot harder to kill. Liquid ooze will only really help you for roopooshin's drain punch, and it seems like your team can handle robooshins (and other drain punchers) pretty well, so Rain dish might be the better option.

 

[djtoxic]

First, thanks for your response. Concerning Rain Dish, I'm not sure about that tbh, I don't see how it would help that much really, where for example today an Ononokusu's EQ OHKOed my poor tentacruel (a Sableye tricked an Iron Ball to my Zapdos...), and I don't think Rain Dish will help against weaker foes' EQ since I think it would still 2HKO... (plus it's such a common move). Also, I sometimes bring Tentacruel to early game, where most of the time I don't have rain up (against weather teams, ofc). And apart from Ludicolo's Focus Blast, Liquid Ooze allows my tentacruel to counter Nattorei.

So, there's another problem. What to do against EQ on my tentacruel if Zapdos isn't able to dodge it?.

 

[ak_Archangel]

Eq even on A RAIN DISH tentacruel will 2otk it.

- bug buzz on Geneo
+ Thunder (after testing this helps alot more)

As for Espeon I would just try
- confuse ray
+hp dark

Will take care of both magical mirror users.

 

[djtoxic]

Thanks for your response. I will try replacing bug buzz on the bug, I'm sure as hell I'll miss it, and when I lead with him without weather setted up, it'll be risky, but meh, I'll try.

As for Tentacruel's confuse ray, no way, I've won several matches with it :D. I'd prefer to risk a switch. Or directly, not to play against Espeon users, until tiers normalize at least and I can switch my Manaphy to something with enough coverage to take care of Espeon. (I don't care about rating tbh, I'm just for win streaks and such XD)

 

[ak_Archangel]

Alright as for confuse ray THEY never hit themselves when i use it but that just me.
If your going for wins then I have a recommendation for your team (replace any poke you want for him)

Kingdra@ Choice specs/life orb
ability: swift swim
Nature: Modest
hp 4/sp.attack 252/speed 126/special def 126
Draco meteor
Dragon Pulse
Hydro pump
Ice beam

kills latios,t-tar,Skymin.

 

[djtoxic]

Thanks for the suggestion, IMO Manaphy is going to get banned soon (and the sooner the better, because that would mean the other ridiculously op pokes go down with him) so I'll take that Kingdra :D. I'm not sure however if I'll choose specially offensive specs or DD physically offensive. In any case, the metagame will change and maybe another poke with better stats will be viable :D (all Kingdra stats excepting speed under the rain are under 100 so... a bit inferior to Manaphy, although it has better typing).

 

[ak_Archangel]

Well your only gonna need kingdra to clean up any messes. I would go with choice specs
-dragon pulse for Outrage. What this will do is trick blissesy whores.

example; U swap into kingdra then fire off a draco meteor.
After the ko the go into blissey.
Swap out into something.
one out of two things will happen.

When u re send out kingdra there gonna swap into blissey so outrage on it.
Or u get a unboosted outrage.
...
Another thing if you decdied to go with the sweeper route.

LO (same stats as above)
Draco meteor
Waterfall
Ice beam
hp electric (i personally run this for shit and gigs.)/Outrage

 

[djtoxic]

So far haven't seen a single blissey, but if my Genosect can't OHKO with Explosion... XD And having 3 choice users in a team IMO is a bad idea... It would involve taking a lot of damage due to switching, and I even was thinking about swapping tentacruel for another poke with hazard support... maybe a Nattorei, or a Forretress or something like a support jirachi. There are a lot of possibilities right now.

 

[masterful]

First, thanks for your response. Concerning Rain Dish, I'm not sure about that tbh, I don't see how it would help that much really, where for example today an Ononokusu's EQ OHKOed my poor tentacruel (a Sableye tricked an Iron Ball to my Zapdos...), and I don't think Rain Dish will help against weaker foes' EQ since I think it would still 2HKO... (plus it's such a common move). Also, I sometimes bring Tentacruel to early game, where most of the time I don't have rain up (against weather teams, ofc). And apart from Ludicolo's Focus Blast, Liquid Ooze allows my tentacruel to counter Nattorei.

So, there's another problem. What to do against EQ on my tentacruel if Zapdos isn't able to dodge it?.

I would listen to him. Nattorei will probably OHKO you with Power Whip anyway, and Rain Dish is useful for your ability to take neutral effective hits consistently

 

[giara]

Squidward(F/Tentacruel)@Leftovers

Ability: Liquid Ooze
EV's: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Nature: Bold (+Def -Atk)

it's a minor point but your spread can be optimised,
with your spread you have 364 HP / 183 Def / 339 SDef
by using the 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef, Calm (+SDef -Atk) spread, you have 364 HP / 196 Def / 341 SDef which makes your Tentacruel bulkyer on both sides of the spectrum.

 

[djtoxic]

it's a minor point but you're spread can be optimised,
with your spread you have 364 HP / 183 Def / 339 SDef
by using the 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef, Calm (+SDef -Atk) spread, you have 364 HP / 196 Def / 341 SDef which makes your Tentacruel bulkyer on both sides of the spectrum.

Hey thanks for noticing it! I'm definetely not a pro with EV's as you can see XD, so I'm gonna correct that. Again, thanks ^^.

EDIT: After some tests, I decided to keep bug buzz on Genosekuto, it has been very useful in 4 particular matches, where thunder would have been useful on only one, on one poke.
Tentacruel's Liquid Ooze has been useful 3 times, 2 drain punches, and one giga drain, yeah... staying as long as Tentacruel. What is more funnier, is that I absorbed one drain punch from a toxicroak with Politoed, so I encored, expecting another one and went to Tentacruel. 3 free drain punchs as I watched... in delight, laying beautiful Toxic Spikes. He died, I didn't. Oh the irony.
BTW, EQ still wrecks my poor tentacruel (although the new def ev's worked like a charm with those drain punch), specially when my Zapdos dies early, so I was thinking in something that brings ground immunity to replace Manaphy. One of my options was bulky DD Gyarados, but it would make me rely even more on Zapdos. Ideas? Remember, it must be able to take down the threat! No choice items.

 

[FlashDrive]

i would recommedn Rotom-w
STAB hydro pump, STAB thunder, and levitate. I know you said no choice items, but i think a specs (or scarf) rotom-w would really help your team.
Rotom-W @ choice specs
timid
252 spa / 252 speed / 4 hp
trick
thunder
hydro pump
shadow ball / volt change

 

[djtoxic]

I could take a look at that, however, hydro pump is haxxy, and another choice... Anyway, trickspecs seems interesting in order to shut down some threats... When manaphy gets banned, another one applies for the test :D.

 

[SmileZ]

If you're going with Specs on Kingdra might I suggest replacing your Ludicolo's Specs with a Life Orb. With such a versatile attacker, the Specs set almost seems a waste.

Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Modest
EV's: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe

~Surf / Hydro Pump
~Giga Drain
~Ice Beam
~Focus Blast / Rain Dance

The reason I slashed Rain Dance is fairly obvious. If Politoed goes down half your team are sitting ducks to an extremely powerful 5th Gen arsenal.

I find with Rain Dance, especially if/when Menaphy gets banned, it's win or fail. You want to plow through teams at your pace rather than allow them to play around you and to do this you absolutely need Rain Dance up at all times. Too many people are forgoing the basics of weather teams because they have their permanent Rain/Sun. In a weather dominated metagame you need to be able to turn the tides in more than one way.

Also, I'd replace Protect on Zapdos. It messes with your pacing a bit and I don't see the need for it. You can Roost unstabbed Stone Edge's and Ice Beams. I would suggest replacing it with Rain Dance and changing the EV spread to 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe. If you meet another Zapdos you want to at least speed tie. That STAB Thunder will ruin you too.

Good luck with the team.

EDIT: Just realised Zapdos is running Lightning Rod.. I'd still suggest the SPE EV's but it's up to you.

 

[djtoxic]

Ludicolo has worked wonders with a Choice Specs, but it's true, sometimes I need to sacrifice a poke in order to sweep with ludicolo (luckily, my zapdos and politoed always make good death fodder late game XD), if Life Orb allows me to OHKO most pokémon without marvelous SpD/resistance to water like CS has allowed me to, I'll sure as hell take it. He almost always gets OHKOed anyway :(.

And tbh, against other weather teams, I just try to keep politoed alive and take down their weather poke, that's a weather war. Ludicolo is too frail to set-up a rain dance that will only last 5 turns, wasting a moveslot, when my Politoed's bulk makes him able to take some nice hits, and in some cases, outstall many pokes, including those nasty tyranitars (hello toxic spikes and zapdos' protect).

Yeah, and that's another thing, although Zapdos lacks coverage against other Zapdos, protects allows him to stall, take leftovers recovery, waste PP's, bore enemy forcing early ragequits (it happens), etc.,...

 

[HART4FLOON]

I think you should give Focus Punch a try over Focus Blast on Ludicolo to nab a hit on Evo Stone Chansey/Blissey because having Explosion as your main method to take them out is predictable. I also would consider Modest>Timid because Timid doesn't really help you outrun anything special iirc.

 

[djtoxic]

Hi!. Thanks for the feedback, honestly, I don't see why Focus Punch (which requires not taking dmg that turn and, one turn wasted) would do any good to Ludicolo, considering he's not the guy to take hits. About the nature, I've found myself a couple times where that spider thing from 5th gen is outspeeded just by a bit by Ludicolo, and both times it gave me the match... I wouldn't take the risk.

Plus Blissey/Chansey can easily be defeated if toxic spikes are in the game. Toxic, Download boosted STAB U-Turn and Focus Blast, and that bitch should be out of the game.