Regenerator Ting-Lu (QC 1/2, GP 0/1)

[berry]

[SET]
name: Regenerator
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Whirlwind
move 3: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 4: Ruination / Stealth Rock / Spikes
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
ivs: 29 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Regenerator Ting-Lu is a stellar mixed wall and entry hazard setter. Whirlwind reduces Ting-Lu's passivity in the face of setup sweepers while racking up damage from Spikes or Stealth Rock. Additionally, these hazard options let Ting-Lu make progress in Regenerator-on-Regenerator deadlocks, while Ruination can be used to instantly heavily damage an opponent putting them in KO range of an accompanying sweeper or wallbreaker. 29 Speed IVs let Ting-Lu underspeed minimum Speed Corviknight, letting it set hazards back up after Corviknight has used Defog and nail it with Earthquake on a Roost. Spinners like Iron Treads, Quaquaval, or Regieleki are beneficial teammates for their ability to clear hazards from your side of the field while retaining the hazards that Ting-Lu sets. Additionally, since Ting-Lu is a rather passive Regenerator user, bulky teammates with high damage potential like Zamazenta-C or Primordial Sea Zapdos are effective teammates for their ability to threaten Corviknight, who usually stands as Ting-Lu's best counter. Finally, Primordial Sea checks like Water Absorb Iron Treads are essential to mitigate Ting-Lu's key weaknesses.

[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/berry.226455/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/ut.523866
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user4.103/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user5.104/

 

[berry]

ready for qc

 

[UT]

add remove conjecture

QC Check

[SET]
name: Regenerator
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Whirlwind
move 3: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 4: Ruination / Stealth Rock / Spikes
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
ivs: 29 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Regenerator Ting-Lu is a stellar mixed wall and damage absorber that has the potential to set up entry hazards on opposing walls and make progress on offensive and defensive opponents alike with its attacks entry hazard setter. Earthquake lets Ting-Lu threaten non-Earth Eater or Levitate Fire- and Steel-types, notably out-damaging Hisuian Goodra's Regenerator. no need to explain straight forward STAB moves in a mini Whirlwind can phaze opposing attackers as well as force progress against walls by making them switch in repeatedly, reduces Ting-Lu's passivity in the face of setup sweepers while racking up damage from Spikes or Stealth Rock. Additionally, these hazard options let Ting-Lu make progress in Regenerator-on-Regenerator deadlocks, while Ruination can be used to instantly heavily damage an opponent putting them in KO range of an accompanying sweeper or wallbreaker. 29 Speed IVs let Ting-Lu underspeed minimum Speed Corviknight, letting it set hazards back up after Corviknight has used Defog and nail it with Earthquake on a Roost. Because Garchomp and Ting-Lu inhabit the same niche as Ground-type Regenerator users that can set hazards and phaze, Ting-Lu can be used in tandem with Garchomp if it chooses to vacate the Regenerator slot for an offense-oriented set. Additionally, spinners Spinners like Iron Treads, Quaquaval, or Regieleki are beneficial teammates for their ability to clear hazards from your side of the field while retaining the hazards that Ting-Lu sets. Additionally, since Ting-Lu is a rather passive Regenerator user, bulky teammates with high damage potential like Zamazenta-C or Primordial Sea Zapdos are effective teammates for their ability to threaten Corviknight, who usually stands as Ting-Lu's best counter. also add a sentence about needing secondary checks for key weaknesses, especially PSea

[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/berry.226455/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/ut.523866
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user4.103/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user5.104/

QC 1/2!

 

[berry]

did

 

[KarpeChan]

lmk when ur done so i can stamp
Add Remove Comment

:3

[SET]
name: Regenerator
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Whirlwind
move 3: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 4: Ruination / Stealth Rock / Spikes
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
ivs: 29 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Regenerator Ting-Lu is a stellar mixed wall and entry hazard setter. Whirlwind reduces Ting-Lu's passivity in the face of setup sweepers while racking up damage from Spikes or Stealth Rock. Additionally, these hazard options let Ting-Lu make progress in Regenerator-on-Regenerator deadlocks, while Ruination can be used to instantly heavily damage an opponent pressure a defensive Pokemon putting them in KO range of an accompanying sweeper or wallbreaker as well as denting offensive Pokemon for easier revenge killing. 29 Speed IVs let Ting-Lu underspeed minimum Speed Corviknight, letting it set hazards back up after Corviknight has used Defog doesn't actually accomplish anything preventing it from safely pivoting a teammate in and nailing it with Earthquake on a Roost. Spinners like Iron Treads, Quaquaval, or Regieleki are beneficial teammates for their ability to clear hazards from your side of the field while retaining the hazards that Ting-Lu sets. Additionally, since Ting-Lu is a rather passive Regenerator user, bulky teammates with high damage potential like Zamazenta-C or Primordial Sea Zapdos are effective teammates for their ability to threaten Corviknight, who usually stands as Ting-Lu's best counter. This thing is not passive at all and burns your 8 recovery PPs with Ruination, talk about offensive partners that appreciate it (switching into threats etc) like Iron Moth Finally, Primordial Sea checks like Water Absorb Iron Treads are essential to mitigate Ting-Lu's key weaknesses. WA Treads isn't very real. Ting-Lu is also especially weak to Fighters since they can hard switch into it to force a lot of progress. e.g. "Ting-Lu also appreciates having defensive partners such as x y z to shore up its weaknesses against Fighting-type Pokemon like Galarian Zapdos and Slither Wing and Primordial Sea Water-types like Inteleon and Greninja."

[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/berry.226455/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/ut.523866
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/karpesan.536333/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user5.104/

 

[berry]

i think there's a slight disconnect in the qc above and how ting lu is in fact a passive but proactive mon instead of an active one.

instantly heavily damage an opponent -> pressure a defensive Pokemon, i don't think this change is necessary at all because of ruination's equal utility to chip an offensive switch-in, ruination ends up being the midground play when you want to make progress or are predicting a switch. setting hazards are the move of choice against defensive mons since that takes prority and nobody with a brain is going to let ting lu eat up all of your defensive mon's recovers and avoid playing proactively themselves by sending something in that either doesn't care about eq or threatens ting lu out. a full hp and half hp breaker do the same damage, but the thing that ends up mattering is keeping hazards up in this matchup / always threatening with a ruination so that the breaker has less and less liberty to switch in off the tail of a pivot over the course of the game.

letting it set hazards back up after Corviknight has used Defog: ting lu's entire kit relies around keeping pressure up with hazards, so i absolutely think this is a necessary distinction. the iv drop to underspeed corviknight is necessary both for hitting earthquakes after corv roosts and being able to constantly facilitate that pressure: in fact, corv is the one pokemon that ting lu plays proactively against the best because of these two traits. I'd honestly say that putting hazards back up allows for even more room to click ruination against corv, while earthquake can completely whiff if the opponent chooses to pivot or defog on a turn you expected them to roost. I concede that originally, my penning of the corv vs ting lu matchup was a bit off, and I think i can rewrite that sentence a bit to more effectively capture what happens, but saying that the specific ivs tailored to keep up hazard pressure end up being inconsequential is nothing but wrong: It's more of a situation where corv switches in, but doesn't want to stay in, but a proactive corv won't subject itself to being harassed by re-setting hazards and ruination and will probably just uturn on you to send in a breaker

This thing is not passive at all and burns your 8 recovery PPs with Ruination: this is only true if your opponent is playing with absolutely no initiative, and ruination itself can almost never close out the deal because of its diminishing returns.

i have no issue with the changes to the water immunity mons, that was just me and my personal use of wabsorb treads that leaked into the analysis, i'm just asking for KarpeSan to consider the corv mu through this lens and see how some wording may affect the way certain matchups are perceived

 

[Isaiah]

Honestly in hindsight, some of the issues might be with the set itself. One should almost never run double hazards bc that doesn't beat spinners; Ting-Lu pressures them much more realistically with coverage like Ruination [and even Body Press] anyway.

Moving on to the QC/objections though:

while Ruination can be used to instantly heavily damage an opponent pressure a defensive Pokemon putting them in KO range of an accompanying sweeper or wallbreaker

This is somewhat of a GP moment but your Pokemon should never "damage [opponents]".
> Opponent = the player, foe = the Pokemon

That being said, instantly damaging foes to put them in KO range is fine; Ruination isn't exclusively used against defensive Pokemon to begin with.

letting it set hazards back up after Corviknight has used Defog: ting lu's entire kit relies around keeping pressure up with hazards, so i absolutely think this is a necessary distinction. the iv drop to underspeed corviknight is necessary both for hitting earthquakes after corv roosts and being able to constantly facilitate that pressure: in fact, corv is the one pokemon that ting lu plays proactively against the best because of these two traits. I'd honestly say that putting hazards back up allows for even more room to click ruination against corv, while earthquake can completely whiff if the opponent chooses to pivot or defog on a turn you expected them to roost.

This is partially true. Underspeeding Corviknight is useful for trying to hit it with slow Earthquake, but it comes at the cost of not being able to actually damage an incoming foe with Stealth Rock/Spikes after Corviknight U-turns. To elaborate:
> Corviknight comes in as Ting-Lu clicks Stealth Rock
> Corviknight uses Defog and Ting-Lu uses Ruination
> Corviknight U-turns and Ting-Lu clicks Stealth Rock again
> Chien-Pao hits the field without having to take Stealth Rock damage.

This is certainly an exchange that can happen in battles and would give credibility to not always underspeeding Corv with Ting-Lu. Thus, KarpeSan's QC point about your line, "letting it set hazards back up after Corviknight has used Defog", is correct. It's almost always worse to move after Corviknight if the move being clicked is an entry hazard, so that shouldn't be used to support the underspeeding EV spread.

This thing is not passive at all and burns your 8 recovery PPs with Ruination: this is only true if your opponent is playing with absolutely no initiative, and ruination itself can almost never close out the deal because of its diminishing returns.

No amount of initiative is letting a switch-in avoid losing 50% of its health pool. Quaquaval still gets to Rapid Spin, but it also has to burn a Roost (especially if it's defensive Quaq, which Ting-Lu can stay in vs and EQ or Ruination again). Corviknight can avoid Roosting by relying on Leftovers (if the ting-lu can't go for the slow Earthquake) but will have to do it eventually. Even Iron Treads doesn't have loads of plays it can make against Ruination + Whirlwind, which prevents it from mass recovering HP from Leftovers (the analysis could also mention Body Press over Ruination as a side note if you want). Along with these defensive switch-ins to Ting-Lu, offensive Pokemon tend to have limited health due to a lack of recovery and don't really want to give up half of it for free. Ting-Lu doesn't have to score a killing blow to still actively play a role in breaking down an opposing team.

berry Hope this clears some stuff up. Feel free to ping me in Discord if not.

 

[UT]

berry now or never