I do actually think Mario Kart Wii is the best Mario Kart, in so far as it is the closest MK game to how good Crash Team Racing was (and CTR is on the list so...)
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Smogon's Top Video Games List - Stage 2 (Current topic - REDEMPTIONS)
- Thread starter WaterBomb
- Start date
lol, are you kidding me? LFD and LFR would be shitty with only same realm unless you're on Illidan or Blackrock or something. I mean the dps queue is on average 15 min for a dungeon and 20 for LFR, and that's after they added incentives for healers and tanks to queue after they outgear the instance. Also openraid.us is a pretty awesome tool, the possibilities are endless and the people you get are generally of higher quality than the idiots on your realm's trade chat. Nothing could be further from the truth, I've met nicer people on x-realm activities than on my realm.
the partner mechanic in double dash was not 'amazing' at all. you had player 1 doing most of the gameplay while player 2 could basically only press one button, and only after player 1 had acquired an item.
i don't have a preference between 64 and wii (which i've only played with friends) but double dash is easily my least favourite.
i don't have a preference between 64 and wii (which i've only played with friends) but double dash is easily my least favourite.
Yeah MK:DD's co-op mode was just a dumb gimmick. Seriously, how many people actually thought that co-op mode was well executed?
Basically what I want to know are the reasons why some people specifically voted no on MKW but yes on MK:DD. There clearly must be a reason that I'm completely missing.
Basically what I want to know are the reasons why some people specifically voted no on MKW but yes on MK:DD. There clearly must be a reason that I'm completely missing.
Ok so if blizz had merged some of the tinytown servers, there wouldn't be too much problem. Even Proudmoore (horde side, which is low pop) was getting PUG 25mans up and running regularly during WoTLK.
You ignore the fact there was a mass exodus of 'serious' PvP players from basically everywhere to Bloodlust battle group during BC, mostly because Tichondrius was easily the strongest PvP realm in the game and Blackrock was the de facto Australian PvP server (it got claimed long before the "Australian" servers came in).
The community is so shot to hell at this point that it makes no difference. However I have memories of the community being a lot less shitty back in the day. It was once possible to clear 10-15man content in PUGs on a regular basis with very few instances of people being arseholes.
I don't know what you're all talking about, MKDD was a fantastic game. The two-per-kart thing was a cool gimmick, the control finally got tight after three MK games with loose controls, the specials mechanic to each character is something I wish they brought back, and the track design was the best in the series. Seriously, what track ISN'T memorable from this game?
Sorry, I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. I wasn't bagging out the actual 2 characters per kart set up. That was fine, if a bit unnecessary (the game could have been made in exactly the same way just using 1 character per kart). I was bagging out the actual co-op mode, as in the multiplayer mode where one player drives the kart and the other player controls the items and miniturbos. That was the gimmick I was referring to. It sounded cool in theory but it just didn't work very well in my opinion, and it is more fun just to have both players control their own karts and race each other.
I never said it was a bad game, just that Mario Kart Wii is better and deserves a redemption. I'm still waiting for someone to address why it doesn't deserve one.
Also, just my 2 cents about multiplayer/community based games. A game based purely off the community aspect is doomed to fail, as most communities, once they grow large enough, take a turn for horrible.
However, there are plenty of high quality, succesful and popular games out there which are almost or completely based off of the multiplayer and community aspect of the game. The main thing which makes such a game successful is the solid framework - the various gameplay mechanics, game world, etc - which not only makes the game itself entertaining due to how it shapes the gameplay, but it also restrains the players' obstructive behaviour and makes sure that every player's experience is of at least decent quality, no matter how bad the player's companions/rivals are.
It is this framework which distuingishes a great multiplayer game from one with potential or just a chance of being so, and I think it is what should we think of when rating a mp game. A horrible community could make a great game mediocre, while a great playerbase could make even a poor game bearable. However, other than marketing and banning certain behaviours which might be percieved as negative for the community, the developer has little control over the community. I think, on an objective level, a game should be rated based off what the developers provided the players with, not what the players did or didn'tdo with it. You wouldn't rate Minecraft down if all everyone ever built was giant wangs out of dirt (ahem...), or praise something like Daikatana because of how many great people you've met on the multiplayer servers. Likewise, you shouldn't rate a multiplayer game based off how unsupportive the players are in co-op missions or how cheap and boring tactics they use in pvp. Instead, you should assume ideal playing conditions for all games, so the community and players should either be assumed to be great or not taken into account when rating mostly multiplayer games.
However, there are plenty of high quality, succesful and popular games out there which are almost or completely based off of the multiplayer and community aspect of the game. The main thing which makes such a game successful is the solid framework - the various gameplay mechanics, game world, etc - which not only makes the game itself entertaining due to how it shapes the gameplay, but it also restrains the players' obstructive behaviour and makes sure that every player's experience is of at least decent quality, no matter how bad the player's companions/rivals are.
It is this framework which distuingishes a great multiplayer game from one with potential or just a chance of being so, and I think it is what should we think of when rating a mp game. A horrible community could make a great game mediocre, while a great playerbase could make even a poor game bearable. However, other than marketing and banning certain behaviours which might be percieved as negative for the community, the developer has little control over the community. I think, on an objective level, a game should be rated based off what the developers provided the players with, not what the players did or didn'tdo with it. You wouldn't rate Minecraft down if all everyone ever built was giant wangs out of dirt (ahem...), or praise something like Daikatana because of how many great people you've met on the multiplayer servers. Likewise, you shouldn't rate a multiplayer game based off how unsupportive the players are in co-op missions or how cheap and boring tactics they use in pvp. Instead, you should assume ideal playing conditions for all games, so the community and players should either be assumed to be great or not taken into account when rating mostly multiplayer games.
I voted yes on MKDD, no on MKW. In my opinion, DD was far more balanced, for some reason. MKW was often frustrating for me since the odds of getting good items were quite high, so if you had a solid lead, you could still get bombarded by overpowered items, which cost you your victory. This never really occurred to me in DD. I also disliked MKW's steering mechanic (using the WiiMote as a steering wheel never really worked for me). I do agree that DD's co-op was stupid and too gimmicky, but it still wins from MKW for me.
All of that, plus sentimental value. Double Dash was one of my favourite games when I got into gaming, and MKW was hard for me to get into after that.
I don't think that DD was that balanced. Some of the karts were better than others (Barrel Train) and as I said before, the special items were not balanced either. I found it to be just as unbalanced as the Wii version. Honestly, only the first 3 games games in the series were close to balanced (if not completely so).
I guess criticising the steering controls is fine if it bothered you that much, but come on, you didn't have to use it. I personally preferred to use Remote + Nunchuk, although I occasionally used the Wii Wheel if I wanted to try something different. However, I don't think anyone can deny that the steering controls WORKED. Believe it or not, many players actually prefer the Wii Wheel (included some very good competitive players) so that would suggest that the controls worked ok, wouldn't it? Meanwhile, you seem to be equally critical of the co-op mode, DD's main gimmick, and yet you are still willing to give DD a yes? I guess that's "sentimental value" for you...
I guess you are entitled to your opinion even if I don't agree with all of your reasons (the point you made about items I do agree with though; you tend to get punished so much more in the Wii version). But look, I really didn't want to turn this into a discussion about which Mario Kart is the best (I'm starting to regret ever comparing DD with Wii in the first place). I just want to know whether anyone else thinks MKW deserves a redemption. So far no-one has really said yes or no, although some people have given reasons why they like DD and why it's better than MKW.
I want to give one more reply before ending this discussion, just to clear things up; I voted yes on MKDD because it holds sentimental value for me, it never frustrated me and I still have fun playing it. I voted no on MKW because it often frustrates me, and I never enjoyed it as much as MKDD. Both have their pros and cons and to each their own, but I prefer MKDD.
Do we have a final verdict on redemptions?
The only games I noticed that people said no to were Frogger and Mario Kart Wii.
The only games I noticed that people said no to were Frogger and Mario Kart Wii.
So all the others move on. Lets getting the next voting stage up please.
