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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
This might've already been a discussed topic in this thread but I can't bothering looking through it all. Wanted to ask what everyone thinks about Booster Energy in this tier? Like it, don't like it, find it unhealthy, think it adds to the tier or think it should be tested etc.
It got mentioned a few pages back the overall consensus was that outside of Moon it isn't really broken on anything. Although the sample size here is small/not the best quality and some people disagree and think it's inherent;y broken.
I like to think of Booster Energy somewhat like Mega Evolution.
It would be busted if you could use it on every Pokemon, but limiting to specifically Protosynthesis and Quark Drive Pokemon makes it more tame and more “the broken part is the Pokemon itself”.
Also making them one use is a big factor is balancing them as otherwise perma Scarf without the drawback would be busted as hell.
i've seen some people complaining about it but it's definitely not broken on the vast majority of the paradox mons. roaring moon is stupid with it, flutter mane and iron bundle are stupid without it, jury's still out on everything else right now but i don't think booster energy alone breaks anything except moon (and valiant in the past but i don't think so right now as things stand)
Nah but in non-LC context
was the UU goat before Home dropped and promptly made it unviable in UU (god that tier is a mess rn) and it's easily in peak Pokemon design, I hope it finally settles into a tier I enjoy and is excellent there.
was the mon I laughed at, at first, but turns out I fucking love it. Does it belong in OU? No lol, but am I happy to use it while it's here? yes. It's just so cool, man. Ghost/Steel is a banger type, and it has enough moves to do literally everything you could want. I still love the bulky TWave Recover set.It's in the ballpark of "I wouldn't push for a test myself, but if one showed up I'd vote ban to never have to deal with Booster Valiant ever again." Like, fuck the Roaring Moon issues, alright? We all know that mon is a problem. But if I never had to worry about the stupid ass +1 speed Valiant whose coverage I always guess wrong on, that let me resume running Drednaw in OU like a dipshit because the only mons that outspeed it would be locked into a move, I WOULD DO IT IMMEDIATELY. I will finally get reqs and vote to ban it because no more please god aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
What do y’all think about Tera Fairy Archaludon as a Roaring Moon check(maybe even counter if a Stamina is up and Roaring Moon has no setup). A little SpAtk investment and you can OHKO back with Draco Meteor
+2 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Archaludon: 238-280 (61.9 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Eh?
+2 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Archaludon: 238-280 (61.9 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Eh?
Revavroom by far. He's always found a way to stay viable in RU, and is my favorite cleaner in the tier by far. That + a super neat typing that's honestly really solid offensively and access to shift gear really makes me wish it was viable in VGC or something, because my boy really deserves to thrive in other formats.
I also like enamorous, but only because it's a fun "click buttons" type mon
i can see it working and it absolutely shouldn't be counted out as a possibility, especially since tera fairy also helps a lot in the darkrai matchup (unless they have the nerve to sludge bomb directly into your steel-type). i'd recommend going for dragon tail over draco meteor in the 1v1 against moon, though—if moon goes tera flying expecting your draco, you're done for, investment or no investment, but if you click dragon tail you get to waste its booster energy boost and make it a lot less threatening in the future. the stamina boosts definitely help a lot if you can already get one or two up before moon comes in
Honestly, I think as a whole it’s healthy. Having Booster Energy speed control ‘mons in the tier helps keep in check a lot of fast offensive threats, but using it in that way comes with an opportunity cost where you lose the ability to use it to facilitate lategame sweeps. Roaring Moon may be broken due to it, but that’s Roaring Moon being Roaring Moon.
oh shit, i didn't even realize it got wave crash and ice spinner now. water/ice/ground is damn good coverage (really, ice/ground/anything is), water into tera ground seems solid for luring electric-types and getting a shell smash up against them, and wave crash is incredibly strong—the recoil can even be a benefit sometimes if it knocks blastoise into torrent range to give it a boost (though it'll probably end up dying to recoil after the next usage of it). between those and the lack of a rocks weakness, this might have one over on cloyster as a late-game shell smash sweeper, as long as you have a teammate who can get opposing bulky waters out of the way. this seems like it could be the decent beginnings of a set, but i don't want to get ahead of myself, so i'll defer to an expert at using niche pokemon in ou. Morkal, would you mind taking a look at this when you have a free moment?
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I climbed to 1700 today with this bulky offense.
https://pokepast.es/fc91343421409faf
Agility booster walking wake punishes sun pretty easily cuz you can lead wake on torkoal and sub and go from there heheh. Also functions as a breaker/late game cleaner. Then there's archaludon lol. Thing is a menace to take down if it tanks too many hits. It gets rock up pretty reliably while the defense allows it take on the physcial attackers running around - gouging fire, kingambit, moon etc. Very solid mon overall.
https://pokepast.es/fc91343421409faf
Agility booster walking wake punishes sun pretty easily cuz you can lead wake on torkoal and sub and go from there heheh. Also functions as a breaker/late game cleaner. Then there's archaludon lol. Thing is a menace to take down if it tanks too many hits. It gets rock up pretty reliably while the defense allows it take on the physcial attackers running around - gouging fire, kingambit, moon etc. Very solid mon overall.
Just wondering, but why did you choose surf on walking wake over hydro steam? Wouldn't nerfed surf be useless against sun teams?
yeah surf is nerfed in the sun but i haven’t found it to be an issue because dragon pulse hits most sun mons for ohko or 2hko - torkoal, opposing wake, gouging fire, venusaur. Surf also hits harder outside the sun so there’s that. could change it to steam tho if really want that sun pressure tho
Archaludon is the goat.
I thought it would be mediocre in a Spikes hell-hole meta like the current one, but so far, its mostly exceeded my expectations - when I don't over-rely on it of course. It does exactly what I wanted Duraludon to do - be a Dialga Jr & solid defense / offensive hybrid mon. Its an excellent Rocks setter, nuker, potential phazer, and situational wincon all in one nice package. Stamina is the devil's ability if left unchecked and allows this mon to spiral very quickly out of control vs some structures, specifically some Rain Variants and Sand. Stuff like +2 Gambit Sucker and Tusk Headlong Rush might not even crack 40% against an Arch that's gotten a few stamina boost, and its not like getting boost in the first place is even that hard. Also a cracked af mon on rain when you can spam Electro Shot for big damage.
Of course, Spikes and Knock are still issues that I see hurting its success over time, but for the time being, Arch is him.
I thought it would be mediocre in a Spikes hell-hole meta like the current one, but so far, its mostly exceeded my expectations - when I don't over-rely on it of course. It does exactly what I wanted Duraludon to do - be a Dialga Jr & solid defense / offensive hybrid mon. Its an excellent Rocks setter, nuker, potential phazer, and situational wincon all in one nice package. Stamina is the devil's ability if left unchecked and allows this mon to spiral very quickly out of control vs some structures, specifically some Rain Variants and Sand. Stuff like +2 Gambit Sucker and Tusk Headlong Rush might not even crack 40% against an Arch that's gotten a few stamina boost, and its not like getting boost in the first place is even that hard. Also a cracked af mon on rain when you can spam Electro Shot for big damage.
Of course, Spikes and Knock are still issues that I see hurting its success over time, but for the time being, Arch is him.
I probably would change it to hydro steam as the ten less base power is not as worth it and means that you can threaten torkoal more effectively, while any fire type attackers (excluding gouging fire) are destroyed by it. Still, your reasoning is great and it looks like a good set :)
May I suggest Tera Grass and Tera Blast over Ground and Earthquake? The combination of Ice + Water is only really resisted by Water, so having Tera Blast Grass to hit bulky Water type like Suicune can be a godsent. Considering you are likely to get hit by Electric or Grass attack, you trade an Electric immunity and Grass weakness for resistance on both as well. Not to mention, you now also resist Aqua Jet, a very common priority move.
Side note: Shell Smash isn't free as you're likely to get hit doing it, so Wave Crash can be a bit dangerous for yourself. Ice Shard also hit you super effectively regardless of your Tera, so might be holding on to Water type might be better if they happen to have an Ice Shard likely Pokemon.
The problem here is that even a stab-less EQ is quite strong, while a non-Tera Tera Blast is not exactly winning any awards. Doubly so when it's coming off the weaker of your two attacking stats. It's much better to have a reliable 100 BP move than be forced to Tera your Blastoise for coverage.
That very much is true, though I think we can just make the set special oriented in that case. Ice Beam and Hydro Pump serves as good attacking moves as well.
Honestly, you rarely see it outside of speed boosting. And I feel it's making thing way too rough. Valiant was a pain point pre-ID meta, moon was banned for the Acro set, Iron Moth is painful, and I've seen the hell that are successful Speed Tusk sweeps. Booster, I feel, is in the same corner as pre-nerf Soul Dew. While, yes, it is one time only, it makes the abusers far scarier.
Now, in the ID meta, you add Boulder, who is just a new Iron Valiant, with SD booster sets. Some Crown and Wake use it, but most of the protosynth lot prefer Sun to booster.
Honestly, I'd like to see a suspect on it. I have put it down on the last handful of Surveys. If not, Val, moon and boulder will want suspect tests. All 3 show powerful speed booster sets, and they outspeed most of the +1 boosted metagame. Is their 'revenge killer' potential worth keeping if they can just be sweeping machines?
Blastoise will be good in lower tiers but definitely not OU by any means. Shell Smash I’m pretty sure saw success only once in OU with Cloyster. It’s a great move tied to a bunch of less than great Pokemon and rarely sees success because said Pokemon are either too weak, too slow, too physically frail, or some combination of those things.
These barely give it a niche.
One multy-strike move and its dead.
DaRotomMachine
I COULD BE BANNED!
I would partially agree, but also not agree, as being able to have all moves is really good, but Smeargle's bulk is just really bad.
Nah it gives Smeargle pretty good niche. And honestly Deoxys-S wouldn’t have much of a miche either if it was JUST Stealth Rock + Spikes. It’s more than that as it has nuke in Psycho Boost, other potential sets like Screens or offensive, and has 4th move options like Teleport, Taunt, and Skill Swap.
Smeargle learning every move besides a handful is always going to provide something for your team too.
thought i'd share a few things i've been messing with on hyper offence & balance. nothing too hot - just things i think are worth trying.
the eon twins are cracked out of their gourds with the buffs they received & general meta state.
latios is honestly one of the scarier breakers in the meta, thanks to its incredible power, coverage, & ability to cheese with luster purge. unfortunately, without investing in tera or cming up, it is prone to being revenge killed by the faster threats such as valiant & moon. that being said, it's still fast enough to outpace much of the meta, including the targets you're aiming for anyway. it can take some finesse, but it's a sick mon regardless.
i find latias to be a reliable wincon on both hyper offence & balance, especially with proper hazard support. very fun to use.
Alfa Lags posted a while ago explaining scizor's potential in the meta, & they were correct. bullet punch is a strong asset given the fast-paced nature of the meta, & it has many meaningful targets such as valiant, boulder shoulders, enamorus, & more. furthermore, sd scizor still does sd scizor things as a powerful breaker in its own right. good stuff keep it up !!!
i've been using this set & another with boots, not sure which one is better yet, nor have i arrived at what i consider to be the optimal moveset. regardless, zama still acts as a nice panic button vs. many physical attackers (see: gambit) whilst performing the role of breaker, cleaner, & revenge killer. id+body press is also probably good, but it's just not my style.
iron valiant is eating like a king these days. it continues to act as a reliable revenge killer for most of the most prominent threats in the meta, from moon to gambit to darkrai & so on. cm tera ghost with encore is what i consider to be the optimal set at the moment - the shit i've pulled off with it is just mind blowing. stellar is a funny meme, but unfortunately its coverage is hampered by the (imo) necessity to run encore. top 5 mon for sure.
don't really know what to say about blaziken, other than the obviously good mon is good. goes without saying that grassy terrain alongside grassy seed is about as good as conditions get for setting up with blaziken. grassy terrain, & teams with a couple of abusers seem very strong to me.
ting lu remains the goat, but they brought a friend this time. great defensive pairing that can constitute the majority of the defensive backbone of a team, whilst applying pressure with free hazards & chip. don't sleep on lategame id skarm - i've snatched many a wig with it in the last day or so.
oh no. oh god. it's back. magic guard is a huge deal in this meta for obvious reasons, and reuni makes a nice slow cleaner for hazard balances. big g5 vibes when used in this manner. unlike clef, it doesn't have to rely on shitty moonlight for recovery, & is considerably stronger. maybe someone wilder than i will use regenerator with specs future sight, that sounds funny.
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that's all i've got at the moment, apologies for the ugly formatting.
on the meta in general, it is way too volatile. too much hyper offence with too many varied threats, each with their own assortment of different sets with varying checks & "counters". roaring moon is hilariously broken & should be quickbanned.
Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Luster Purge
- Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind
Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Luster Purge
- Aura Sphere
- Recover
Latias @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 204 HP / 88 Def / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss / Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind
- Agility
Latias @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss / Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind
- Agility
Latias @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 204 HP / 52 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Luster Purge
- Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind
Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Luster Purge
- Aura Sphere
- Recover
Latias @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 204 HP / 88 Def / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss / Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind
- Agility
Latias @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss / Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind
- Agility
Latias @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 204 HP / 52 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
latios is honestly one of the scarier breakers in the meta, thanks to its incredible power, coverage, & ability to cheese with luster purge. unfortunately, without investing in tera or cming up, it is prone to being revenge killed by the faster threats such as valiant & moon. that being said, it's still fast enough to outpace much of the meta, including the targets you're aiming for anyway. it can take some finesse, but it's a sick mon regardless.
i find latias to be a reliable wincon on both hyper offence & balance, especially with proper hazard support. very fun to use.
Scizor @ Metal Coat
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
Zamazenta @ Muscle Band
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam
- Crunch
- Howl
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam
- Crunch
- Howl
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Encore
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Shadow Ball
- Encore
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Encore
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Shadow Ball
- Encore
Blaziken @ Grassy Seed / Air Balloon
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
Rillaboom @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Swords Dance
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
Rillaboom @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Swords Dance
Ting-Lu @ Red Card
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost / Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Ruination
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Spikes
- Roost
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost / Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Ruination
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Spikes
- Roost
Reuniclus @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Calm Mind
- Recover
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Calm Mind
- Recover
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on the meta in general, it is way too volatile. too much hyper offence with too many varied threats, each with their own assortment of different sets with varying checks & "counters". roaring moon is hilariously broken & should be quickbanned.
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