That boy beat my ass every time in randbats I do not like that ability and signature attack at all lmfao
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
KEEP IN MIND - Pecharunt will probably not be as good in OU as it is in randbats ofc I personally am not even sure if it will stay OU as it has a weird stat distribution with 88 across the board except for 160 defense (for some reason idk why they thought that he looks like he could take hits he looks mad frail imo but whatever), doesn't get any coverage rly as it only learns poison and ghost type moves and nasty plot
Im very excited to see how it's gonna do especially in today's meta
RNG Mon? Totally welcome to OU for me. Only problem is that without Tera Blast he is fully walled by these guys:
Well yea it's gon start in OU but against the King and the elephant he MIGHT suffer (reminder: 160 def)RNG Mon? Totally welcome to OU for me. Only problem is that without Tera Blast he is fully walled by these guys:
Edit: Im interested in the calcs now so:
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Pecharunt: 290-344 (76.3 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Kowtow does 94-110%)
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Pecharunt: 290-344 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+1 4 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Pecharunt: 360-426 (94.7 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (OU offense bulk up set btw)
+1 4 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Pecharunt: 360-426 (113.5 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ofc Tera can save Pecharunt but it's typing really isn't doing it justice in this meta game plus even IF we still have Gholdengo in the tier so even with Tera it seems alright
Possible Teras would probably be I imagine fairy, maybe fire and water
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mimikyu stardusts new skarmory hazard stack team is very fun, but these skarm teams are why zapdos fell to uu, everyone too focused on skarmorys exellence to remember zapdos, zapdos might have struggle with iron boulder, but that doesn’t mean its bad or even mediocre in OU and it better rise back
Skarmory + Ting-Lu teams had almost 0 influence in Zapdos dropping to UU. They don,t compete vs Zapdos's niche of walling every Fight Mon and Zapdos beats both Mons in the long run.
Iron Boulder is a new problem for Zapdos and one of the reasons. Similarly, Raging Bolt, Gouging Fire and Kyurem are problematic for the yellow bird.
Main culprit though are not them, but Gliscor. Gliscor is a flying type that absorbs status and makes defense Zapdos sets way worse, forcing Zapdos to either go fully offensive (which never was the best Zapdos sets) or to have very strong Gliscor checks to which pivot out with U-Turn.
Along with Gholdengo, Kingambit and Dondozo (there are some others, but these are main ones), Gliscor is one of the Mons I call gate keepers, Mons bad match-ups vs which destroy the viability of other Mons. Gliscor is probably the best at that, due to all the progress potential it has when given free turns. Thats why I think Gliscor doesn,t deserve being in OU, though for now I am in minority here.
I just want to say that I completely agree with this. The council mentality has always been to target the Pokémon and not the other elements, except for rare exceptions (Arena Trap, Sleep Clause, Dynamax, etc.). Not that I agree or disagree with this, each case is different.
But following this line, in the long term wouldn't it be enough to remove Serperior and Enamorus from the tier, and some Paradox (although I still prefer BE, I'm ok with paradox going away.)?
I respectfully hate the concept of looking at Stellar and Tera Blast as something separate from Terastal, Terapagos had its problems and went away.
Mischaracterizing mechanics just to preserve them is a horrible step and doesn't provide a true long-term solution, let's look at Baton Pass.
About
, it has the potential to destroy HO and balance (which was never viable in this generation), but it's an ok Pokémon, until you add Terastal, not because it needs coverage, but because it gives the possibility of nullifying a revenge killer, a basic concept for singles. You can swap out its horrible defensive typing and no longer be weak to Sucker Punch, Aqua Jet, Grassy Glide, or Bullet Punch. It's not my priority but ok.Since it seems that treating
as "broken" won't lead anywhere, I just wanted to change the more appropriate term to "Unhealthy". There is nothing more that needs to be elaborated, we all know Gholdengo.It scares me that I seem to be in the minority who see
in a bad light, and it scares me even more that I'm not scared by the presence of 
.At this point, no one is really scared of Darkrai. I agree with you regarding Deoxys, though.It scares me that I seem to be in the minority who see
I'm betting a one month ban that Pecharunt doesn't stay above NU after its first tiering period.
I have a few things I wanted to share regarding tournaments :
First of all, I regularly watch tournament battles to keep up with the current metagame and trends. It kind of made me wonder why everyone was so scared about DeoS when it litteraly did nothing in tournament... Anyway, I try to follow on a daily basis the OUPL replays, but I found it was a bit more difficult to have a global view and keep track of everything, I realized it when someone here said Annihilape did nothing during OUPL and I had a hard time finding again those replays, navigating between commencement thread to understand how the tour is built, realizing the replays and statistics have never been updated and trying to find a way through the archives by literally clicking every replays on some weeks because I did not find the name of the replay very clear to understand if it is regular gen9 ou suspect gen9.
May be this is because I compare it with the SCL where it was really easier to follow, and 1LDK analysis and statistics may have helped too.
My second question that rose was : how comes nearly no-one speaks about Archaludon ? It took only the fast few pages to raise this topic but when I watch some tour replays and its overall utility, I find it more broken than some things that were included into the survey. After a few physical hits and some spa boost it is nearly impossible to wall its attacks (body press being naturally boosted) and also to kill it as it has very good typing and is naturally bulky. I found it could snowball pretty quickly, not saying it deserves a ban but kind of surprised it was not discussed as much.
Finally, I wanted to know : what is the exact purpose of suspect battles in tour ? At first my guess was that it helped evaluate the relative power of pokemon in order to know if those could be dropped or not. But viewing as Annihilape did absolutely nothing (and sometimes was more of a burden) and that people say it is normal because people were juste overpreparing for it (which is totally understandable), then I don't get anymore what is the real purpose of those slots.
On a side note, I am still amazed on the argument that "we have already brought enough Uber mon in the tier". I think it kind of emphasize our schizophrenic behaviour between considering Uber as a real tier, and considering it as a banlist. This is even more true in a metagame that, for the most part, has never feeled as balanced as now : this only means the pokemon that dropped were not banworthy, so there were not "Ubers" by definition of not being banworthy and even then people are calling them Ubers because historically that's what they used to be.
I sometimes feel we do not consider Uber the same way lower tiers consider BL which are quite easy to view as "Banlist" and thus unban everything when metagame changes (which litteraly just happened for UU, RU, NU). Not advocating for a reset at all, that would be totally dumb, but just questioning our general philosophy of "broken checks broken" when that is quite literally what happens in lower tiers when such huge tier shifts happen.
First of all, I regularly watch tournament battles to keep up with the current metagame and trends. It kind of made me wonder why everyone was so scared about DeoS when it litteraly did nothing in tournament... Anyway, I try to follow on a daily basis the OUPL replays, but I found it was a bit more difficult to have a global view and keep track of everything, I realized it when someone here said Annihilape did nothing during OUPL and I had a hard time finding again those replays, navigating between commencement thread to understand how the tour is built, realizing the replays and statistics have never been updated and trying to find a way through the archives by literally clicking every replays on some weeks because I did not find the name of the replay very clear to understand if it is regular gen9 ou suspect gen9.
May be this is because I compare it with the SCL where it was really easier to follow, and 1LDK analysis and statistics may have helped too.
My second question that rose was : how comes nearly no-one speaks about Archaludon ? It took only the fast few pages to raise this topic but when I watch some tour replays and its overall utility, I find it more broken than some things that were included into the survey. After a few physical hits and some spa boost it is nearly impossible to wall its attacks (body press being naturally boosted) and also to kill it as it has very good typing and is naturally bulky. I found it could snowball pretty quickly, not saying it deserves a ban but kind of surprised it was not discussed as much.
Finally, I wanted to know : what is the exact purpose of suspect battles in tour ? At first my guess was that it helped evaluate the relative power of pokemon in order to know if those could be dropped or not. But viewing as Annihilape did absolutely nothing (and sometimes was more of a burden) and that people say it is normal because people were juste overpreparing for it (which is totally understandable), then I don't get anymore what is the real purpose of those slots.
On a side note, I am still amazed on the argument that "we have already brought enough Uber mon in the tier". I think it kind of emphasize our schizophrenic behaviour between considering Uber as a real tier, and considering it as a banlist. This is even more true in a metagame that, for the most part, has never feeled as balanced as now : this only means the pokemon that dropped were not banworthy, so there were not "Ubers" by definition of not being banworthy and even then people are calling them Ubers because historically that's what they used to be.
I sometimes feel we do not consider Uber the same way lower tiers consider BL which are quite easy to view as "Banlist" and thus unban everything when metagame changes (which litteraly just happened for UU, RU, NU). Not advocating for a reset at all, that would be totally dumb, but just questioning our general philosophy of "broken checks broken" when that is quite literally what happens in lower tiers when such huge tier shifts happen.
Yeah I'd like to open discussion more about it also. It's definitely up there in terms of strength. I'm not sure if it's banworthy rn but the snowball potential is ridiculous. It still feels like it has more potential.
Personally, I thought it was gonna flop but in the few matches I've faced it, it's a massive threat with bulk, what seems like decent coverage, and relatively easy ways to boost. As of writing I'm starting to feel like it's in the same vein as Ape, extremely punishing if you chip and snowballing out of control. If people have figured out common ways of checking it, I'd like to hear so I can add them into more teams.
Zapdos has the potential to rise within the next month.
It fell due to Gliscor being a fantastic electric immune. With other mons like Raging Bolt, Archaludon, and SpD Gfire in the tier, Zap is no longer the unwallable demon it was in Home/DLC1. Kyurem and merit of Ice moves make it more difficult for Zapdos to assert pressure.
But Zapdos also offers some excellent traits. We are currently seeing a trend of offensive Tusk and Meow Boots Spam, so punishing them with Static makes playing around the latter especially more manageable.
Rather than using Volt Switch, Zapdos should run U-turn instead, which chips Ting-Lu harder while not being deadweight to Clodsire which has risen in popularity. Zapdos ironically does well into most Boots BO and Balance, Gliscor mostly runs physical bulk and even with Pheal + Protect, those Hurricanes are dealing nasty damage to it along with the rest of the teams while punishing Meow and Weavile for clicking Triple Axel vs them. If all three hits land, that’s a 90% chance for Static to proc.
It could also play around with other options like Pressure Sub-Roost which can shit on Gliscor with the added benefit of stalling out Boulder’s 8 pp Mighty Cleave. This is also one of the reasons why Corv stayed in OU. Weather Ball with Gking can directly lure Gliscor and erase it while also snagging Raging Bolt and the other ground types for a decent chunk.
It fell due to Gliscor being a fantastic electric immune. With other mons like Raging Bolt, Archaludon, and SpD Gfire in the tier, Zap is no longer the unwallable demon it was in Home/DLC1. Kyurem and merit of Ice moves make it more difficult for Zapdos to assert pressure.
But Zapdos also offers some excellent traits. We are currently seeing a trend of offensive Tusk and Meow Boots Spam, so punishing them with Static makes playing around the latter especially more manageable.
Rather than using Volt Switch, Zapdos should run U-turn instead, which chips Ting-Lu harder while not being deadweight to Clodsire which has risen in popularity. Zapdos ironically does well into most Boots BO and Balance, Gliscor mostly runs physical bulk and even with Pheal + Protect, those Hurricanes are dealing nasty damage to it along with the rest of the teams while punishing Meow and Weavile for clicking Triple Axel vs them. If all three hits land, that’s a 90% chance for Static to proc.
It could also play around with other options like Pressure Sub-Roost which can shit on Gliscor with the added benefit of stalling out Boulder’s 8 pp Mighty Cleave. This is also one of the reasons why Corv stayed in OU. Weather Ball with Gking can directly lure Gliscor and erase it while also snagging Raging Bolt and the other ground types for a decent chunk.
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with this point, that more Ubers need to be re-tested or that the power level is high or we simply should stop saying we have Ubers in OU?
Can somebody give me an explanation on the difference between 
and 
's roles? I keep getting confused.
and 's roles? I keep getting confused.zapdos rising isn’t a probability, its a spoiler, the fact that zapdos had 2% usage on high ladder (1825+) is shocking, iron boulder isn’t pushing zapdos out of the tier because its a mainstay that threatens it, iron boulder isn’t the type of feller thats so broken, anything that matches up negatively against it is unviable, a theory of mine is that alot of high ladder players were just testing out all the new pokemon and forgot about zapdos a bit, of course it has been affected by disk meta
Skarm spikes and walls, CorvCan somebody give me an explanation on the difference between
Can somebody give me an explanation on the difference between
has- Spikes and Rocks
- Whirlwind
- Better physical defense
- Higher speed
has- U-turn
- Defog
- Better HP and Special defense
On a practical aspect, they are pretty much the same, use corv if you need a U-turn machine + wall, and use skarm for hstacking in general, skarm is overrall a straight upgrade
Apart from what everyone is saying, I would add that Pdef Corviknight is terrible and doesn,t wall anything. Unless you specifically need Defog, use Pdef Skarm.Can somebody give me an explanation on the difference between
Sdef Corviknight however is an excelent check/pivot to things like Serperior, Special Valiant, Enamorus and even can switch into Darkrai and Kyurem a couple of times, being much better than Sdef Skarmory (who isn,t really a thing).
Skarmory joined the war on hazards on the side of hazards.Can somebody give me an explanation on the difference between
You know this is technically a downside but most likely at that point they are most likely gonna sweep. Plus it’s a good trade. Gliscor user gets 38-45% on Iron Boulder and maybe forced a Tera, while the Iron Boulder user gets a kill and sets themselves up in a better position. They can also be greedy with another Sword Dance against Gliscor which will always OHKO at +4does 80% to
+4 252 Atk Quark Drive Tera Ground Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 352-415 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So yeah even if they are “forced” to Tera, which may not be always the case since Grassy Terrain halves Earthquake and Iron Boulder could be behind Screens (which honestly more to do with Screens being broken than broken set up Pokemon), the Iron Boulder user is in a great position. Outspeeding majority of the tier and being strong enough to OHKO Gliscor.
I think Iron Boulder is crazy because I’v been using it and it’s really brain dead.
Why does Boulder have Quark Drive ATK in this calc when its main claim to fame is Booster Speed over Valiant's tier?
Oh it does. Sorry the Calculator is quirky like that and boosts what ever the highest stat is after stages.
+4 252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 271-319 (76.9 - 90.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
It still will rampage easily through a slightly weakened team at +4
+4 252 Atk Tera Fighting Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 229-270 (72.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+4 252 Atk Tera Fighting Iron Boulder Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 438-516 (118 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252 Atk Tera Fighting Iron Boulder Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gouging Fire: 349-412 (84.2 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Yeah it does that much with neutral attack)
+3 252 Atk Tera Fighting Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 282-333 (73.8 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+4 252 Atk Tera Fighting Iron Boulder Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Skarmory: 336-396 (100.5 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252 Atk Tera Fighting Iron Boulder Close Combat vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta: 328-387 (100.9 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252 Atk Iron Boulder Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 610-718 (118.6 - 139.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252 Atk Iron Boulder Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 350-414 (102 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Besides Dondozo your defensive options limited and it’s almost impossible to revenge kill, especially with Tera making priority be not as deadly.
I have not played much since DLC2 dropped so please correct me if something has changed, but for those opposed to at least trying to take action on Gold what is your alternative to improve the hazard metagame? To me the options seem to be 1) look at gold, 2) look at 3-4 premier spikes setters that get them up way too easily (samuh, ting lu, maybe gliscor/skarm), 3) look at spikes as a move (won't happen).
Or are ppl generally satisfied with the state of the hazard metagame and i'm just in the minority?
Or are ppl generally satisfied with the state of the hazard metagame and i'm just in the minority?
This is how it works but it literally only matters when webs are on the field (or the pledge combo I guess) because that's the only thing that can affect a stat stage before booster energy procs. The calc is acting as intended but as intended only happens with literally one or two interactions in the entire game.
I guess it could also happen with baton pass but like, I am a "normal" person who does not think about baton pass when I'm not playing gen 3 OU
THE HAZARD WAR: A HELPFUL INFOGRAPHIC (NOT REALLY)
FOR HAZARDS | ANTI HAZARDS |
|---|---|
General: Gholdengo | General/Spy: Great Tusk |
Vice-General: Ting-Lu | The Wild Cards/The Uno Reverses: Hatterene and Cinderace |
Corporal and Defector: Skarmory | Guy-With-A-Grudge-Against-Gholdengo: Corviknight |
Tank: Gliscor | General's Brother: Iron Treads |
Kamikaze Bomber 1: Samurott-Hisui | General's Son: Donphan |
Kamikaze Bomber 2: Glimmora | DaddyBuzzwole Endorsement: Cryogonal (DLC1 discussion) |
Spy Mole: Smeargle | Tyranitar's Brother: Excadrill |
Merriam Web-Sters: Ribombee, Galvantula, Araquanid | Sunny Personality: Torkoal |
Speedy Bruv: Deoxys-Speed | Tidy Freaks: Maushold and Cinccino (and Furret ig) |
Seemingly Unaware: Clodsire | Grudge Against Dwayne Johnson (rocks): Volcarona |
Enemy Agent: Great Tusk (sets rocks) | Enemy Agent: Smeargle (it spins) |
Artifact of Utmost Importance: Focus Sash | Artifact of Utmost Importance: Heavy-Duty Boots |
Tier Counter
FOR HAZARDS | ANTI HAZARDS |
|---|---|
OU: 9/8 (8 without Tusk) | OU: 7 |
UU: 4 | UU: 3 (6/7 if we count all 3/4 in the Maushold) |
PU: 0 | PU: 1 (Cryogonal haha) |
Results: HAZARDS WIN (mostly)
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