Sometimes it works specifically because it's stupid.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
What are current plans for survey options? There's quite a bit of questionable mons and it's difficult to cover everything. Roaring moon, kingambit, kyurem, gouging fire, volcarona(haven't had much trouble but that's because people haven't wanted to spend their tera on it) archaludon. I've seen a few mentions of raging bolt, which I can understand. And if we're not moving on them, when can we open talks about Tera again?
Also, thoughts on garg in current meta?
Also, thoughts on garg in current meta?
I agree with finch that banning Hypnosis is probably the worst option, but banning forced Sleep simply because we have one former Uber allowed down is still bad policy. If Darkrai (a recently dropped Uber conceptually based around Sleep) and Iron Valiant (which has been on the radar since the start of the generation) are the problem users, there is no reason to keep them in the tier. I personally don't think any action should be taken but if action should be taken, it should be done on individual Pokemon. Amoongus isn't broken, nor are other sleep inducers (Torkoal, Clodsire, Venusaur, Ninetales-A).
This absolutely is a reason to ban Darkrai though lol, the consistent argument here for the Ban Sleep camp is that the problem is that two insanely powerful offensive threats can beat some counters 60% of the time. Is anyone prepared to argue that Hypnosis Gengar is a problem if Darkrai and Iron Valiant are banned? I'm doubtful because Gengar lacks the same qualities as either of them (namely, great speed tiers). Is ANYONE using Hypnosis in tour play outside of the OU users and Ninetales-A?? I also don't get the big deal about Sleep Clause not being faithful when other clauses function the exact same way. Is OHKO clause next and we're just going to individually ban OHKO moves? How about banning Ice Beam and Blizzard in Gen 1? The idea that we have to simulate the cartridges exactly isn't realistic or good policy and would completely upend things like accepted movepools in certain generations and desynching. No one is going to say Gen 4-5 Gengar should have Nasty Plot, Judgment, and Aura Sphere because of the Rage glitch.
I think this raises an excellent point, because one of the primary positions in the Swagplay debate was that we should just ban the Confusion status instead. Banning Swagger was the correct move because it was the actual problematic element of the strategy. Should we ban Para+Sub strategies in Gen 3 LC, ban Paralysis moves, or ban Substitute?
So let's refer to the above and ask if Paralysis is uncompetitive. Using one turn to either force a 25% turn deficit in the long run on top of outspeeding everything is a pretty steep benefit. What differentiates Sleep from other status conditions like Confusion and Paralysis? How are we determining what is acceptable luck-based move skipping and what isn't?
OHKO Clause is not a mod.
Gen 1 is a unique case and has a history separate from smogon, freeze clause would not go over well in any modern gen. Even got removed in gen 3 and 4.
Maybe in other generations like Gen 1 freeze/sleep clause that are vital to make progress or Gen 3 switch order mod to remove an uncompetitive mechanic, but there is no real downside to removing sleep clause mod in Gen 9.
Banning glitches is completely different than modding the game to create impossible gamestates.
Wouldn't it be crazy if the stall player can also make predicts and just leave Gliscor in, getting another 12%? It seems like in all of your posts, the offensive player is the only one to be able to make predicts. Wouldn't it be crazy if you READ MY POST and saw this?
I'm all for banning sleep since it is incredibly uncompetitive for reasons discussed at large, though I must say few are highlighting the following sequence of events:
1) Drop Uber
2) Oh no it is uncompetitive
3) Send Uber back
3) Change a clause that has been on Smogon for over a decade iirc
Fuck sleep but god damn that is a weird turn of events, I guess Darkrai is indeed a fan favorite
I'm hopeful we'll soon get rid of Kyurem and Gouging Fire as well. Hazard vulnerability isn't a problem if you almost guarantee something is dying the moment you hit the field. They borderline guarantee a +0 at minimum, and dedicated walls don't work that well as many have shown with calcs.
Unrelated: Fuck Gliscor
1) Drop Uber
2) Oh no it is uncompetitive
3) Change a clause that has been on Smogon for over a decade iirc
Fuck sleep but god damn that is a weird turn of events, I guess Darkrai is indeed a fan favorite
I'm hopeful we'll soon get rid of Kyurem and Gouging Fire as well. Hazard vulnerability isn't a problem if you almost guarantee something is dying the moment you hit the field. They borderline guarantee a +0 at minimum, and dedicated walls don't work that well as many have shown with calcs.
Unrelated: Fuck Gliscor
The exact midpoint between stronk and fast eforce ig? Scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
I'm going to be trying spite on ting-lu because I am so bored. Wish me luck.
I'm messing around since I'm depressed since I'm not good enough to get UUbers reqs. So, BANDED EXPLOSION FORRETRESS. lets see if I go mad.
Yeah I know. But even then it's hard to find 7 free turns with gliscor.
senorlopez
Formerly Ricardo [old]
What's the threshold for a council vote as opposed to a community suspect?
Well then it becomes a game of making good predicts and mid-ground plays. What's wrong with that?
Your question is irrelevant as smogon doesn’t follow all the cartridge mechanics/rules. Doubles is the main format of pokemon and it’s not hard to see that certain mechanics and rules for doubles/cartridge would be problematic in a 6v6 singles competetive match.
I also told you that I think sleep clause is fine as it is now, without it it would be inherently broken, and you already knew the answer to this question.
Take your narcissism elsewhere or actually make a contribution to the discussion at hand.
Update: It was horrible. I thought it would be at least decent like when I tried it on sableye, but it could actually take hits, but most mons switch out on Ting-lu if they can't hurt it, and if they can, they hit it hard and switching is the better option.
The problem with this proposal is that it doesn't really fix any Sleep Clause issue except from preventing attempted resleeps on wakeup. It doesn't solve the problem of how to handle locking on the sleep move (via Encore or Trick) nor how to handle running out of PP on other moves.
update I made someone else go mad by booming yay, salt with Exploding
+ParaFlinch 
is fun hehe (I am a menace to society)
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Lol can I have a sample team I need to troll my friend with this.update I made someone else go mad by booming yay, salt with Exploding
https://pokepast.es/d342c2133aeef982 a status team
https://pokepast.es/87f162ac9e71c2f5 sand probably worse
https://pokepast.es/87f162ac9e71c2f5 sand probably worse
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If you use another Spiker (especially Samurott, since he is not blocked by Hatterene) and Rocker, Restalk + Whirlwind + EQ has been the best Ting-Lu set by far for me. When it has recovery, it can finally use the enormous bulk it has to check things in the long run. Raging Bolt is not 3HKOing you with DM if you can heal, with Tera Water you don't care about Specs Wake in Sun at all and can check well Kingambit, Gouging Fire, Volcarona, etc, well used Restalk Ting Lu is unkillable and with Hazards+Knock Off support will wear down the opposing team.
I've tried rest ting lu, specifically chesto resto ting lu, and it is quite good. I love using the sleep + chesto sets because they mean you don't have to run sleep talk, meaning you have full health one time if you get low, which can sometimes be all you need. I once even tried rest garchomp, as I could switch it into a physical attack that didn't threaten it too much and still get value from it while asleep.
Sorry for the double post, but would you ever consider using avalugg in OU? I want a spinner on my team, but I don't want to use tusk/excadrill because they overlap a lot with the rest of my team. Probs not going to use it, but I remember it being on the early viability rankings for this meta.
Interesting question, but why avalugg specifically, does it fit the team better than other options? What is the rest of the team like?
It may be a good shout, I just don't have enough info on the team to give an answer.
I have gambit, normal slowking (used to be tornadus-t), iron boulder, ting-lu and raging bolt. The one I swapped out was tentacruel for avalugg. After testing it a bit, it is decent. It is scared the ever loving crap out by anything that has a miniscule chance of having a special move, but if they don't it walls them forever. Ice+fighting moves are quite good coverage, as only volcarona, primarina, toxapex, skeledirge and ghold resist both moves. Which is actually more than I thought, but most other things in OU are hit super effectively by one (don't quote me on that, I may be embellishing my claims a bit.)