[VGC] Pile of Bulu

[The boy]

Ever since tapu bulu was revealed i knew he was the one i was going to center my VGC team around. Little did i know i would have so much trouble , considering im not the greatest at VGC. With that said im coming to more experienced people for help.

I also wanted something that wasnt the norm, at first opting for all alolan pokes, but then realizing i would rather not waste my time breeding a below average team. So i tried the aurora veil and a bunch of intimidators to passively weaken my opponents attacks as much as i can. The first play tests of this team have not shown much promise, bad pokemon sort of sweep me and i dont know if it is me or my pokes.

anyway here we go

Tapu Bulu @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- swords dance Wood Hammer
- horn leechhZen Headbutt
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge

- I wanted my bulu to not be such a cookie cutter version of what is going around but ended up coming back to it as I couldnt find enough time to set up in most cases due to his speed. I thought aurora veil would give me some wiggle room, as well as throwing on the grassy seed but i was wrong. Im thinking maybe going with snarl instead of zen headbutt due to all the A-maros in the meta.

Arcanine @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- burn up Flare Blitz
- Morning Sun
- Roar

My replacement for A-maro, because im tired of seeing him on every team, even though he almost certainly fits better here. I opted for flare blitz over burn up b/c i found myself needing that seconding STAB atack more often than not. Not really sure how im supposed to use this guy, i try to run him as a lead to counter TR, but roar (i think) has neg priority and the guy almost always can throw it up.

Kommo-o @ Normalium Z
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Autotomize
- Belly Drum
- Dragon Claw
- Brick Break

I thought this boy was going to be a wrecking ball, autotomize and z-belly? i think so! Maybe with Tapu Lele, but i dont think this is the best thing for him. Again, i cant find much time to set-up. And i in turn dont use this dude often. He also cant really get OHKOs without z-belly

Krookodile @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Naughty Nature
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Rock Slide

Nice little counter to A-maros and has done decently well for my team. I dont think im running the best moveset. His speed hurts and i cant really fire off EQs with Bulu on the same team. Wish earth power was available.

Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Moonblast
- Aurora Veil
- Encore

Thought he was really gonna be something. That aurora veil seemed so good on paper. Thing is he is pretty much worthless when you can only bring in 4 mons. I tird icy wind for speed control but can figure out the right time to use it.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Hurricane
- Waterfall
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance

I winged this set totally, this guy was slowbro but slowbro was never used and didnt do anything for me. Really need help here.

I'm open to all suggestions, specifically looking for:
- EV/nature corrections ( just using showdowns suggested)
- speed control help
- replacements
- strategy help
- movesets
- yeah basically everything

 

[Project_Mars]

Does Gyarados really get Hurricane? TIL. Still, it doesn't have a good special attack stat and Dragon Dance won't buff it. Switch it with a physical move like Crunch or Ice Fang for better damage, and maybe Taunt with Protect. Then give it a Jolly nature and max Attack and Speed EVs.

 

[ElementOfSmash]

Honestly I like the idea of Encore on Ninetails. Hadn't thought about that. Buuuuuuut. Blizzard. Such a strong attack to not have to check accuracy. Your second slot is basically Freeze Dry/Icy Wind. Given the current meta, I'd probably go with Freeze Dry to hit Fini, Gyara and Milo. At least.

My biggest concern here though, is that NONE of your pokemon are running Protect. So stalling out things like Trick Room aren't going to be possible. Not to mention that fact that your opp can just swing for the fences all day long and connect every time.

 

[The boy]

My biggest concern here though, is that NONE of your pokemon are running Protect. So stalling out things like Trick Room aren't going to be possible. Not to mention that fact that your opp can just swing for the fences all day long and connect every time.

We thinking z-crystal krok and add protect? I don't know where else, take attack off Bulu?

 

[ElementOfSmash]

We thinking z-crystal krok and add protect? I don't know where else, take attack off Bulu?

Probably something like

Arcanine: Roar > Protect
Bulu: Megahorn > Protect

Also, I'm pretty sure Light Clay ONLY works with Reflect and Light Screen. I think here a fairly standard ANT might be best

Ninetales-Alola @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Dazzling Gleam/Moonblast
- Aurora Veil

You could change up the slots a little bit, too. Instead of Kommo-o and Krookodile, have you considered Garchomp/Alolan Persian?

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Protect

Persian-Alola @ Life Orb/Sitrus Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Bite
- Fake Out
- Protect

 

[The boy]

Probably something like

Arcanine: Roar > Protect
Bulu: Megahorn > Protect

Also, I'm pretty sure Light Clay ONLY works with Reflect and Light Screen. I think here a fairly standard ANT might be best

Ninetales-Alola @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Dazzling Gleam/Moonblast
- Aurora Veil

You could change up the slots a little bit, too. Instead of Kommo-o and Krookodile, have you considered Garchomp/Alolan Persian?

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Protect

Persian-Alola @ Life Orb/Sitrus Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Bite
- Fake Out
- Protect

I'm thinking I do need to get rid of kommo but I don't know about garchomp, I don't really like him with Bulu. What about Drampa? I sort of need a sp attacker. Persian might not be a bad move. Thanks.

Also, I've been seen a lot of set up mons, how should I combat that w/o roar?

 

[ElementOfSmash]

I'm thinking I do need to get rid of kommo but I don't know about garchomp, I don't really like him with Bulu. What about Drampa? I sort of need a sp attacker. Persian might not be a bad move. Thanks.

Also, I've been seen a lot of set up mons, how should I combat that w/o roar?

I agree that you need to Kommo-o. And we can talk about both of your points as to why.

Set-up strats are generally lower-ladder plays. Once you get above a certain Elo, you mostly stop seeing them. In the past we've seen things like TerraCott and Belly Drum Azu. And those were the moderately successful ones. But you can usually see those strats coming from a mile away once you see them the first time. Essentially, they're gimmicks. If you just play the match straight, you should be able to take them down before they set-up. Snorlax is stockpiling? Fine, focus down his teammates and deny him support. You know when he's gonna Spit-Up, so just double Protect. Sand Rush Lycanroc? If you have a weather setter, you win. Or Fake Out. Or Brave Bird.
Point is, you should usually be able to knock out a pokemon that has to set up before they get setup. And what is your Kommo trying to do? Set up with a Z-Belly Drum and Auto. Probably only to get 1-2HKO in the process.

As far as replacements go, Drampa isn't a bad choice. Cybertron has been using LO Drampa to p good effect in his Road to Ranked series.
I also notice you don't have a ton to deal with Fini/Lele outside of Freeze Dry ANT

Maybe Dhelmise or Alolan Marowak? Great options, especially if you aren't going to be using EQ spam. If you ARE planning on heavy use of EQ, consider Celesteela?

 

[The boy]

Wanted to make an update to this thread instead of being annoying and making another. I have made some significant changes and i believe i am going in the right direction...

First of with Bulu:
Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Zen Headbutt
- Megahorn
- Superpower/Stone Edge

- Changed item to choice band and this has worked extremely well for me as expected. A little disappointed that it is the cookie cutter Bulu but if its not broke dont fix it. The last move slot im a little unsure of. Had stone edge but it didnt do that much for me, mostly missed when i needed it to hit. Are there better EV distributions for him that has been uncovered?

Drampa @ Life Orb
Ability: Berserk
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower

This boy is a monster, he has been one of my most used and most successful in and out of TR. Not only that but i unintentionally hatched a shiny one while breeding. I know Quiet would probably work best when in TR but its still slow as anything. Need help on EVs, dont know whether or not they are optimal, and on the moveset. All the moves come pretty in handy at certain, but dont know if the two stabs are more important than Ice beam coverage.

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt

Gengar kinda happened here while 1) looking for a TR setter and 2) accidentally breeding a Timid shiny one. Again not the preferred nature but its nice that he doesnt have to rely on TR. Sludge bomb for fairies, and Shadow ball for Ghosts and others. Taunt for set up users obviously. This guy might have to go, but i like having the option of TR or Tailwind. Maybe replace with slowbro for water coverage?

Magnezone @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magnet Pull
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Discharge
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch/Thunder/Thunderbolt/Twave

not too sure about this guy. He does pair well with my team... learned the hard way about pairing him with A-Maro. He gets good kills in rain and against water but I have other mons that cover that well. Hes just ehhh to me. open for suggestions, if i keep Gengar im thinking about Storm drain gastro to pair with lightning rod maro. if i remove Gengar, I dont know maybe keep him?

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Flare Blitz
- Protect
- Shadow Bone

Typical Maro, you know what it does and it does it well. Good synergy, im content.

Mandibuzz @ Black Glasses
Ability: Weak Armor
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- Tailwind
- Whirlwind

Anti-Trick room and tailwind setter. Also has a useful move in knock off + BB for opposing Bulus. I like him, i think he fits well. I dont know about the item, the nature, ability or the EVs. just kinda winged it.

Somethings that i have in mind moving forward....

Switching out Gengar and/or switching out Magnezone. As of right now i have to water mon, and that seems like a serious red flag to me. Like I said i do like being able to decided whether i want to go with Tailwind or TR when picking my mons to go to battle with, so an option is slowbro, but not really sure. Looking for all the help i can get as i progress. I am up for changing any mon really, except for Bulu, hes the GOAT.

REPLAY:
torkoal + guru + gant:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-492596977


electric terrain abusers:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-492604878


z-conversion:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-492677294

 

[RebornFX]

I'm liking the look of this team, there's just two member changes that I would recommend.

As you said, Magnezone doesn't seem all that necessary, considering you have Bulu which just eats waters, as well as Drampa which takes them on nicely. I would suggest replacing it with Celesteela. This change provides you with Wide Guard support for things like EQ, helping out Gengar and Marowak and Blizzard (which your team looks kind of weak to, considering you will have 3 weaknesses and 1 resistance after this change, though granted this is a special case). Celesteela provides another ground immunity as opposed to a weakness, beats fairies for Drampa and my next suggestion (though you really shouldn't be too scared of them with Marowak and Gengar) and synergises well with Marowak as it provides Lightningrod support and have great type synergy. The EVs maximise sp.def while keeping attack higher than it to get a +1 attack boost per kill.

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 4 Def / 172 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Wide Guard
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Next, Mandibuzz. I just don't feel it is providing you with all that utility here. Tailwind is a great support move, but once it gets that up you seem very passive. Putting adamant max attack black glasses on a Pokemon with base 65 attack is the equivalent of polishing a turd, it's a bit better but it's still sh*tty (and here it's also a waste considering the bulk could allow it to survive more hits). I love Whirlwind/Roar in this format and try to include it wherever I can, which is why i really liked the look of this when I saw it (I think from a Kyle Cole showdown live, not sure though).

Salamence @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Roar
- Protect

Salamence provides the team with Intimidate, another way of beating Marowak which threatens Bulu and Celesteela, another water resist, a tremendous nuke option in Devastating Drake, Roar, a speedier option (very fast considering the average speed of the meta) making Tailwind less necessary and just generally more firepower.

And finally just some optimisations I would suggest

Replace Zen Headbutt with Horn leech on Tapu Bulu. I'm not really sure what Zen headbutt was originally on there to hit, but Tapu Bulu appreciates the recovery and the lack of recoil option and a banded Horn leech in grassy terrain still destroys everything unresisted. Replace Thunderbolt with Protect on Drampa and min speed +Quiet nature. You could replace Flamethrower, but I like the ability to still hit Bulu and Celesteela without having to worry about Marowak redirecting it. Quiet nature just allows it to function better under trick room. Run max speed timid on Gengar. I feel without max speed you might as well be using a different Trick Room user, as you aren't using Gengar's best quality. It is ridiculously fast in this format and can function well when trick room runs out (if it's still alive). The bulk is redundant anyway considering you are running a sash and it won't allow it to survive more than two hits anyway, and min speed wouldn't allow it to underspeed much of anything. I would also replace Taunt with Protect on Gengar. I don't really find there is too much setup in this format, other than I guess sub+leech seed Celesteela and DD Gyara, which I don't feel your team struggles with too much, and Trick Room which you can just reverse if necessary and usually have Mental herb. Protect is just a great move and I probably don't need to explain why. And finally an EV change on Marowak:

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 4 Def / 68 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Protect

Credit to Wolfey, this set survives Modest non-LO Psychic in Psychic terrain from Lele.

Hopefully you have success with some of these changes:

Importable

Drampa @ Life Orb
Ability: Berserk
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Megahorn
- Superpower

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Trick Room
- Protect

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 4 Def / 172 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Wide Guard
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Salamence @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Roar
- Protect

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 4 Def / 68 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Protect

 

[The boy]

I'm liking the look of this team, there's just two member changes that I would recommend.

As you said, Magnezone doesn't seem all that necessary, considering you have Bulu which just eats waters, as well as Drampa which takes them on nicely. I would suggest replacing it with Celesteela. This change provides you with Wide Guard support for things like EQ, helping out Gengar and Marowak and Blizzard (which your team looks kind of weak to, considering you will have 3 weaknesses and 1 resistance after this change, though granted this is a special case). Celesteela provides another ground immunity as opposed to a weakness, beats fairies for Drampa and my next suggestion (though you really shouldn't be too scared of them with Marowak and Gengar) and synergises well with Marowak as it provides Lightningrod support and have great type synergy. The EVs maximise sp.def while keeping attack higher than it to get a +1 attack boost per kill.

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 4 Def / 172 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Wide Guard
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Next, Mandibuzz. I just don't feel it is providing you with all that utility here. Tailwind is a great support move, but once it gets that up you seem very passive. Putting adamant max attack black glasses on a Pokemon with base 65 attack is the equivalent of polishing a turd, it's a bit better but it's still sh*tty (and here it's also a waste considering the bulk could allow it to survive more hits). I love Whirlwind/Roar in this format and try to include it wherever I can, which is why i really liked the look of this when I saw it (I think from a Kyle Cole showdown live, not sure though).

Salamence @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Roar
- Protect

Salamence provides the team with Intimidate, another way of beating Marowak which threatens Bulu and Celesteela, another water resist, a tremendous nuke option in Devastating Drake, Roar, a speedier option (very fast considering the average speed of the meta) making Tailwind less necessary and just generally more firepower.

And finally just some optimisations I would suggest

Replace Zen Headbutt with Horn leech on Tapu Bulu. I'm not really sure what Zen headbutt was originally on there to hit, but Tapu Bulu appreciates the recovery and the lack of recoil option and a banded Horn leech in grassy terrain still destroys everything unresisted. Replace Thunderbolt with Protect on Drampa and min speed +Quiet nature. You could replace Flamethrower, but I like the ability to still hit Bulu and Celesteela without having to worry about Marowak redirecting it. Quiet nature just allows it to function better under trick room. Run max speed timid on Gengar. I feel without max speed you might as well be using a different Trick Room user, as you aren't using Gengar's best quality. It is ridiculously fast in this format and can function well when trick room runs out (if it's still alive). The bulk is redundant anyway considering you are running a sash and it won't allow it to survive more than two hits anyway, and min speed wouldn't allow it to underspeed much of anything. I would also replace Taunt with Protect on Gengar. I don't really find there is too much setup in this format, other than I guess sub+leech seed Celesteela and DD Gyara, which I don't feel your team struggles with too much, and Trick Room which you can just reverse if necessary and usually have Mental herb. Protect is just a great move and I probably don't need to explain why. And finally an EV change on Marowak:

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 4 Def / 68 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Protect

Credit to Wolfey, this set survives Modest non-LO Psychic in Psychic terrain from Lele.

Hopefully you have success with some of these changes:

Importable

Drampa @ Life Orb
Ability: Berserk
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Megahorn
- Superpower

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Trick Room
- Protect

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 4 Def / 172 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Wide Guard
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Salamence @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Roar
- Protect

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 4 Def / 68 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Protect

Thanks a lot for the help, I really appreciate it! I'll add the changes in and see how it goes!

 

[blarajan]

Temporarily locking until you make an attempt at this thread

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/mandatory-team-building-homework-assignment.3589392/