The usual reasoning would have made it so that blaziken does not receive abilities from othersÞ not the other way aroundæAll you need to know is that it's because Speed Boost is banned from sharing.
The usual reasoning would have made it so that blaziken does not receive abilities from othersÞ not the other way aroundæAll you need to know is that it's because Speed Boost is banned from sharing.
Yes, there’s a link in the OP if you click on Blaziken’s name in the unbanlist. n_nis there a post why blaziken was unbanned from the very beginningÞ
I'm not sure I understand. All bans have restricted a particular ability from sharing, not its user from being shared to, and all pokemon unbans have worked the exact same way. Anyway, thanks to Haaku for giving us directions; I spent 10 minutes or so trying to find the post.The usual reasoning would have made it so that blaziken does not receive abilities from othersÞ not the other way aroundæ
abilities that strictly boost speed may not be shared according to the OP. that includes the weather abilities, so no.Do Weather based abilities like Chlorophyll, Swift Swim, etc double speed for the whole team?
I suppose magic guard exists, but without it being shareable, I've not seen a single team use an Alakazam or a non-Unaware Clefable. Stealth rock is incredibly useful, but most importantly, hazard removal still exists. (I think you meant Magic Bounce, which yeah, is everywhere thanks to that espeon/lele core)Regarding Serene Grace:
Because Magic Guard exists, stealth rocks can't reliably be used as a counter to focus sash. Some situational options like a rock setter with Mold Breaker or sandstorm / hail damage exist, but aren't available to every team.
This is the reason why flinch and multihit-strategies are common.
I'll note that flinching is mostly relevant to the fast-offense vs. slow-offense matchup. Defensive teams usually carry priority healing, which completely avoids it.
Finally, there seems to be some uncertainty as to how stench, king's rock and serene grace interact. I believe it works like this:
- Stench gives a 10% chance to flinch to any more that does not have a flinch chance
- King's Rock gives a 10% chance to flinch to any more that does not have a flinch chance. Since stench already provides one, this does not happen
- Serene grace doubles the 10% flinch chance from Stench to 20%
- beat up hits 6 times with a 20% chance to flinch on every hit. The total chance to flinch is 1 - (0.8)^6 = 0.737855999999999, so approximately 74%. A good upgrade on Serene Grace iron head, but not that close to 100% either.
Sorry. I meant magic bounce. I corrected my post above.I suppose magic guard exists
My argument would be that triage pangoro forces other offense to run lele, because it's too constraining to run two sashed checks. I didn't point out lele because it's the obvious answer to Pangoro; I thought everyone was already aware of thatit is quite common to run Lele and THAT is actually the main reason Pangoro Teams don't work so well
I considered running something like this on triage, but I feel like it doesn't improve the odds by enough to be worth it. You'd essentially be running an ability for one matchup that will be useless otherwise, and hurt your chances in general. They still get a 50/50 by either switching and re-applying the terrain to let drain punch fizzle, or koing Pangoro as I try to hit their switch with a non-priority move. 50% sounds pretty good, but this can be repeated and ultimately still prevents Pangoro from sweeping.You basically HAVE to run something on the side like Fini/ Bulu/ Koko, but I have not seen many of them together with Pangoro yet.
I could drop my rock setter (tough claws) and replace it wish sash mb Exca. But only my espeon matchup would profit from it, and I'd lack the power the team needs otherwise.literally every team runs either Mold Breaker Exca or M-Pinsir (with MB pre-Mega). It is really easy to fit on any team
I don't fully agree that everybody uses Lele because he doesn't want to waste two Sashes on his Mons. Almost all Teams used to run some from of Priority Prevention since the beginning of this Meta (most OMs from Gen 6 had E-Speed Spam as a viable strategy, so a prevention of Priority is always nice to have). If you wanted to just prevent Priority, Queenly Majesty/ Dazzling is arguably better, as it cannot fade after 5 turns. But then you would lose to Pangoro/ Hawlucnha (Mold Breaker). Essentially, what all teams did, was swap their Bruxish/ Tsareena for Lele.My argument would be that triage pangoro forces other offense to run lele, because it's too constraining to run two sashed checks. I didn't point out lele because it's the obvious answer to Pangoro; I thought everyone was already aware of that
I think we might run similar teams. I use Barbaracle (Tough Claws) with a Sash for a potential sweep, M-Beedrill (Adaptability) which can sweep after a +1 Speed, Scarfed Kartana (Beast Boost) for Beast Boost and Late Game Sweep and Scarfed Lele (PS), to wreck some Holes in the opponent's Teams with surprise Scarf and Boost in Spa after KO'ing a mon, so that I force his Scarfer and kill it afterwards with my sashed Barbaracle. This is basically all I need as an offensive Core. Granted, I am not well prepared for defensive Teams, if I cannot 2HKO their Mons, so I have to predict a lot and play risky, but it worked out for me as of right now. For the last 2 Slots, I can play anything I want to counter certain playstyles. I use Sash Exca for setting up Rocks and also getting rid of them at the same time. After setting up Rocks I spam Rapid Spin until Excadrill dies (my opponent can either break my Sash turn 1 or set up Rocks, either way I will prevent him from keeping up rocks). Against offensive teams, his Sashes are broken and my offensive Mons break Holes in his team and can even Sweep them after a Beast Boost. My last Slot is usually used for what I am struggling with right now. Currently it is Sashed Ribombee to prevent flinch/ para with Zap Cannon etc. Since BLaziken cannot KO it with Double Kick, I can revenge it. It also gives me Webs in case my opponent doesn't have Espeon and can even potentially Sweep with Quiver Dance.I could drop my rock setter (tough claws) and replace it wish sash mb Exca. But only my espeon matchup would profit from it, and I'd lack the power the team needs otherwise.
I think that your question was "why blaziken is unbanned and pokemon like Lugia, Hoho and arceus are banned despite being unable to share abilities?"The usual reasoning would have made it so that blaziken does not receive abilities from othersÞ not the other way aroundæ
I feel like this comparison is a bit extreme tbh. Those are some very special examples. The ability softbans would be more comparable to forbidding certain Pokemon in STABmons from receiving all STAB moves (i.e. Tapu Lele, which was otherwise banned for its powerful wallbreaking capability thanks to STAB moves). Of course this is still unacceptable by OM standards unfortunately.2. Ability restrictions - Shared Power does something unlike any OM at the moment, and that’s the way it handles ability restrictions. No metagame official or unofficial has done what Shared Power has done (the exceptions being Endless Battle Clause and Mega Ray Clause). You’re “banning” mechanics. OMs should be thought of as the actual game. So in this game of Shared Power, Pokemon share all their abilities in battle. By restricting abilities, you’re effectively altering game mechanics. To give you a comparison, it’d be like OU “banning” Scald from burning. Or Jirachi being “banned” from flinching. You’re not banning the ability or the Pokémon but you’re “banning” the mechanic. This is something that should never be done.
While this may sound extreme to eliminate this problem you could just ban the ability as a whole- not unlike the arena trap ban. Neither the original user nor any recipients would be able to use it and it would fix the issue of complex bans, albeit with the downside of losing a lot of useful and balanced pokemon (mainly the Mold Breakers). Idk how this could ever be balanced, but that problem doesn't just apply to this metagame.I feel like this comparison is a bit extreme tbh. Those are some very special examples. The ability softbans would be more comparable to forbidding certain Pokemon in STABmons from receiving all STAB moves (i.e. Tapu Lele, which was otherwise banned for its powerful wallbreaking capability thanks to STAB moves). Of course this is still unacceptable by OM standards unfortunately.
I noticed this as well. This archetype of OM seems to have risen into the public eye recently and it's pretty neat. Definitely should poke around with The Fifth Move on ROM a bit.However, I know that my opinion will not change the OM Leadership's decision. However, all our opinions may be able to. But if this decision is final, I believe that Akumeoy's idea of having abilities only share to adjacent pokemon could be good. It's a lot like the new(?) metagame on rom, The 5th move, which is similar except it takes the first move of a mon and shares it to the next mon.
sorry pal, but comparing the bans of an OM with other countless issues than just the banlist size to OU is frankly idiotic. i dont want to sound rude but reading your post made me even angrier than you probably are. shared power's mechanics make it inherently impossible to balance; this is not news. yes, shared power was both popular and fun, but an OM is not about being "for teh LULZ". IF anything, that goes directly against the groove of what an OM (or any meta) should be. if an OM is fun, then cool. but it obviously needs to be able to be balanced in order to function correctly, and shared power is simply not that.I am frankly outraged by this decision. Shared Power has proved to be an extremely popular and fun metagame with a large fan base that is completely behind it. I think that the leadership's arguments are completely wrong and mislead.
1. All metagames have issues with balance. Even OU currently has 40 something banned mons, and we're not calling for OU to be closed. Now I do understand that SP is far more difficult to balance, but that's still no reason for shutting it down. So maybe the second argument is better?
2. Ability restrictions are one of the things that have made SP special. Instead of outright banning things SP has made logical bans that still allow for design space while balancing the metagame. I understand showdown is an emulator and changing the base game is against smogon policy. However, metagames are naturally not part of the base game, and therefore design space should not be limited by restrictions on the base game. The way I see it Shared Power has done a better job maintaining design space and creativity than any other metagame, and we should embrace that, not discontinue it.
However, I know that my opinion will not change the OM Leadership's decision. However, all our opinions may be able to. But if this decision is final, I believe that Akumeoy's idea of having abilities only share to adjacent pokemon could be good. It's a lot like the new(?) metagame on rom, The 5th move, which is similar except it takes the first move of a mon and shares it to the next mon. Anyway, I hope that shared power can be kept alive and this will not destroy what we have worked so hard to create.
Flint and TI both had reasoning that they wanted to post, but since the decision to close this metagame was announced preemptively, I suppose I can explain to you why your post makes no sense whatsoever. Comparing Shared Power's ability bans to OU's Pokémon bans is not only obnoxiously ignorant, it showcases that you don't really understand the point of OM banlists. For clarification, let me state that Shared Power is based off an OU banlist, which is the standard for most OMs. We're not comparing a Shared Power banlist to a main tier banlist for blatant reasons. It forms the basis in which OMs are allowed to exist (these OU bans also exist in Shared Power :P). We're comparing it to other OMs, as that's the only fair comparison. Additionally, Shared Power is an ability-based metagame that even after 40 or so bans into its key concept isn't a balanced metagame. The metagame leader himself admits that this metagame is "unbalanceable" but rather only playable. Your statement that all metagames have issues with balance is also quite empty, considering that most metagames can work through the imbalances, whereas Shared Power cannot. The concept itself is inherently flawed in this aspect.I am frankly outraged by this decision. Shared Power has proved to be an extremely popular and fun metagame with a large fan base that is completely behind it. I think that the leadership's arguments are completely wrong and mislead.
1. All metagames have issues with balance. Even OU currently has 40 something banned mons, and we're not calling for OU to be closed. Now I do understand that SP is far more difficult to balance, but that's still no reason for shutting it down. So maybe the second argument is better?
2. Ability restrictions are one of the things that have made SP special. Instead of outright banning things SP has made logical bans that still allow for design space while balancing the metagame. I understand showdown is an emulator and changing the base game is against smogon policy. However, metagames are naturally not part of the base game, and therefore design space should not be limited by restrictions on the base game. The way I see it Shared Power has done a better job maintaining design space and creativity than any other metagame, and we should embrace that, not discontinue it.
However, I know that my opinion will not change the OM Leadership's decision. However, all our opinions may be able to. But if this decision is final, I believe that Akumeoy's idea of having abilities only share to adjacent pokemon could be good. It's a lot like the new(?) metagame on rom, The 5th move, which is similar except it takes the first move of a mon and shares it to the next mon. Anyway, I hope that shared power can be kept alive and this will not destroy what we have worked so hard to create.
I think this is brilliant. It preserves the idea of Shared Power while controlling the meta a lot more. This way, we can still have the beautiful ability combos like Drought/Harvest, but it isn't automatically put onto every Pokemon. If one was dedicated enough, they could build a full drought/harvest team, but that would require 3 drought mons and 3 harvest mons on the team in alternating spots. This would severely inhibit team building if someone wanted to build this way, and it probably wouldn't end up a good team. This should also allow speed abilities back into the metagame for the same reason. Sure, a full team could have unburden, but only if 3 Pokemon on the team had it. By designing the metagame in this way, it should remove quite a bit of the splashability of Pokemon just due to their ability, making one super Pokemon (like Pangoro with Moldbreaker with Triage and whatever other abilities chosen for the team).If we want to preserve "abilities are shared across the whole team" in some respect, the idea that comes to mind immediately is to have each mon share its ability with the next mon in the team, and then the sixth mon shares its ability with slot 1.