A first attempt at a Black/White team (Stall-based)

[Cornburrito]

So I am brand new to the Black/White metagame. I actually quit this game around the time in DPP when Azelf and Aerodactyl stealth rock/taunt leads were incredibly common.

Stall and defese has always been my favorite strategy in the game. I like whittling down the opponents slowly and then either sweeping up at the end game once the foe has been sufficiently chipped away at, or fully committing to stall and winning almost purely on hazard damage and forced switches.

Be warned, I'm brand new to this metagame. I have very little knowledge about the strongest threats, though I've played on the Pokemon Showdown latter for the past few days with this team and it seems to be doing ok. I'm not sure if that is because I am facing the worst players (since I am low on the ladder), or if it is because the team is actually pretty decent. Any help would be appreciated.

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Fang

This is my typical lead Pokemon. His job is to tank hits, nab a few KOs when the opportunity arises, set up stealth rocks, and help me win any weather wars. So far I'm pleased by his performance. He has done well taking hits from both sides of the attack spectrum, and control over the weather seems crucial in this metagame.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- U-turn
- Perish Song

I'm not too sure about the EV spread. I'm half considering making Celebi more bulky on the physical side, though so far I have few complaints. Celebi's main roll is to force switches with Perish Song, and almost guarantee a victory if I can get the opponent down to a single remaining Pokemon. Celebi also helps with its resistance to electricity, grass, water, and ground.

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt

Jellicent helps deal with Water type attacks, fighting types, and his role somewhat overlaps with Celebi. Scald adds potential burn damage, Will-O-Wisp can neuter Tyranitar, Taunt can help prevent set-up Pokemon from taking advantage of him, and Recover adds to the bulk. Jellicent also plays the important role of defensive rapid spin blocker, though he can't deal with opposing Starmie.

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Ship
- Gyro Ball

Ferrothorn adds a lot to this team. Suitable bulk and excellent resistances. Gyro Ball can even deal decent damage on suitably fast Pokemon. Ferrothorn also shares the burden of absorbing Dragon attacks along with Heatran. Ferrothorn adds Spikes to my list of hazards, and Leech Seed provides an incentive for the opponent to switch out, and can even provide a psuedo win condition against my opponents final Pokemon by wearing them down even faster or allowing me to wall them indefinitely until they run out of PP. Power Whip and Gyro Ball deal decent damage and can KO weakened enemies at the end of the game.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Protect
- Toxic

Defensive Heatran was one of my favorite sets back in Diamond/Pearl. Heatran provides numerous key resistances, including the ability to tank special dragon hits. Heatran also has sufficient special bulk to take super effective special attacks. Lava Plume for the burn chance, Roar to discouraged set-up Pokemon. Protect has been key for letting sandstorm + burn/toxic damage finish off opposing Pokemon and securing an extra turn of leftovers Recovery. It is also a decent scouting move. Toxic can help net an end game win condition under certain circumstances, and can be my way of dealing with physical sweepers that I cannot outright wall.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

I needed a rapid spinner who could deal with common spin blockers. As a stall based team I often have to switch as much as my opponent, and entry hazards can be fatal to my team. With Natural Cure he can also make a decent status absorber. I'm probably the least pleased with Starmie. Surf instead of Hydro Pump for the additional accuracy. Ice Beam deals with dragon Pokemon and other threats. Thunderbolt helps to deal with Gyarados and opposing water types. And of course Rapid Spin.

Changes:

Forretress has been changed to a Ferrothorn sporting:
252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Spikes
Leech Seed
Power Whip
Gyro Ball

Starmie has been changed to the offensive rapid spin build.

Overall the loss of defensive starmie has not hurt the team, and Ferrothorn is showing me exactly why he is OU. The thing is absolutely amazing. Leech Seed is especially nice and can provide another situation win condition on final Pokemon besides Perish Song stalling.
----------------------------

As I have little experience, this team may have extremely large holes in its defensive that I have overlooked and not discovered during low level ladder play. I'd greatly appreciate if anyone could point those weaknesses out if they do exist.

I'm open to replacement movesets/EV spreads and Pokemon if one would serve the same role but better.

Landorus seems to be a huge threat to my team. It packs extremely powerful attacks and I have almost nothing that can switch in safely. Some variants even seem to outspeed Starmie.

Blissey is also really annoying, though I can force her out easily with Jellicent and Hippowdon can deal a good chunk of damage to her. Though smart opponents can keep her safe, and Wish is absolutely annoying.

 

[xtrememaster]

I'd suggest Ferrothorn over Forretress as it works well together with Jellicent with perfect defensive synergy. It also kills dragons with iron barbs + rocky helmet without doing a thing. Make Starmie your rapid spinner and turn it into offensive Starmie as it doesn't last long and is much better at sweeping. Starmie easily outspeeds Breloom and OHKOs it with ice beam. If you want a bulky water, go with Milotic. Also, max out Jellicent's special defense to work well with Ferrothorn and give it calm nature. It has will-o-wisp to halve attack anyways. Give Jellicent surf as it has will-o-wisp.

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet/Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 Def. Rest is your call.
Careful Nature (unless having gyro ball. In that case, relaxed)
-Leech Seed
-Spikes
-Protect
-Gyro Ball/Thunder Wave/Power Whip

Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Spd, 252 SAtk, 4 HP
Timid Nature
-Surf/Hydro Pump
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Rapid Spin

Milotic @ Leftovers
Trait: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SDef
Bold Nature
-Scald
-Toxic
-Recover
-Ice Beam

 

[Cornburrito]

I can see replacing Forretress with Ferrothorn, however isn't Forretress better suited for Defense and Ferrothorn Special Defense?

Meanwhile you say to switch my Jellicent to the Special Defense variant, but that would mean that the vast majority of my team would be unable to take any kind of physical hit well. Yes Jellicent has Will-O-Wisp but even with this level of defense a Crunch from the likes of TTar will take off a lot of his health. I shudder to think what would happen if I lowered his defense.

I considered hyper offensive rapid spin Starmie, but that means I have one less defensive Pokemon on my team. Yes Starmie isn't that bulky but it can do what it needs to do with its current EV spread.

I may consider Milotic but I feel there are better bulky water types.

 

[Hopkinc1]

Ferrothorn is more Defensively based, but usually you mix the set, so a good Ferrothorn EV Set would be:

252 HP / 88 Def / 168 Sp. Def

0 IV's in Speed and a hindering nature would also be best on him. However, I think Forretress would be better. Use the same EV Spread and IV Idea as ferrothorn, it makes his defenses more balanced :)

Also, as wth there being better bulky water types than Milotic, no there really aren't. With it's a bility Marvel Scale, a burn or paralysis or sleep set make have absolutely monstrous defenses. a ResTalk set is the most useful set. Here is a good ResTalk set:

Milotic @ leftovers
Trait: Marvel Scale
Nature: Calm
248 HP / 196 Def / 56 Sp. Def / 8 Spd
Scald
Rest
Sleep Talk
Dragon Tail

Not going to pretend I made that up, that set is from Smogon. But it is a very effective set, allows you to shuffle, heal, and attack your opponents, while having incredible bulk and a semi-reliable form of recovery.

 

[Cornburrito]

The thing about going specially defensive Ferrothorn/Forretress is that I don't think a balanced defender fits.

Heatran, Hippowdon, and Celebi are all geared towards having higher special defense.

That means I have Forretress and Jellicent as my main physical tankers.

I'll try these changes:

Replaced Forretress with Ferrothorn
Switched to offensive Starmie Rapid Spin set.

edit: Yeah I cant go Ferrothorn and Milotic since then I'd lack a rapid spinner. Either Starmie needs to stay or Forretress needs to stay.

 

[Sayonara]

Hello, nice team. A really big problem for your team right now is that it's really weak to the common Life Orb + Recover Latios. You have really no way to counter it, and it outspeeds most of your team and each time it comes in you'll have to sacrifice something, and your team falls apart pretty quickly. I noticed your using both Forretress and Starmie on this team, I think that if one of these Pokemon aren't using Rapid Spin, then they aren't worth a spot on a team, and I think Starmie would fit better as a Rapid Spin user, so I'd replace its Ice Beam for Rapid Spin. So yeah, to fix your problem with Latios, and stuff like Alakazam, Gengar, I'd recommend switching your Forretress for a Choice Scarf Jirachi. You don't need Forretress if you already have Starmie to use Rapid Spin, and I think Jirachi would fit your Sand Stall team well, as you now have a useful revenge-kill user that can help you a lot against Latios, and it also has Trick to help you vs stall.

I'd use a set consisting of Iron Head / U-turn / Ice Punch / Trick, with an EV spread of 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe, a Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA), with the Choice Scarf obviously. Iron Head for a strong STAB, since you hit first most of the time when Scarfed you can flinch stuff, U-Turn the fleeing Latios / Latias to gain momentum and Ice Punch is useful to hit and kill Landorus, Gliscor (Substitute + Toxic versions can be really annoying for your team) and dragons like Dragonite, Salamence, etc. Trick helps you against stall, which can be slightly tough to handle, Bronzong can be annoying if Heatran goes down. For other changes I'd go with Scald over Surf on Starmie, the burn chance is really crucial to help you against stuff like Ferrothorn notably. Anyways, cool team, hope this helps!

 

[knowitall]

Nice team, I usually like to run stall as well and love to see those type of teams out there, so kudos for that. I actually prefer forretress over ferro most of the time but I've never had much luck with volt switch, I would recommend dropping volt switch for either another form of hazard or if you still desire some form of scouting protect, as you get a turn of recovery and a turn of weather damage on the protect. As for starmie I would suggest instead a gliscor. He can handle breloom pretty well and and adds some defense to your team while still providing some status absorption. maybe try this set.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Toxic Heal
Nature: Impish
EVs:@252 Hp/184 Def/ 72 Spe
Earthquake
Substitute
Protect
Toxic

Thats the one I use, its probably from smogon but it works pretty well, you can alternate between sub and protect as weather adds up. Very similar to stallreign in DPP.

 

[Cornburrito]

I've made changes to my team, and I think it has improved the performance quite a bit. Though my team still has problems most notably with Landorus, Blissey, and opposing Heatran.