A proposal for Garchomp

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All this recent discussion regarding Garchomp got me thinking. I think the main thing which makes Garchomp so hard to take down is its Ability, Sand Veil. Sure it's got many other things going for it, but the thing is, you can always prepare for those. You are responsible for making sure you have a Dragon resist, a Bulky Water with Ice Beam, something with Ice Shard, etc. you get my point. But what you cannot account for, and what seems to be the most common way to losing to Garchomp from my experience at least, is Sand Veil. No Pokemon that serves as a counter to Garchomp is immune to its effects.

And this is why people get mad. Not only do they get mad, but the vast majority of Garchomp users themselves sympathize with their opponent when they miss on a crucial turn (which, with Garchomp, is practically every turn). If you think about it, whenever Sand Veil activates, everyone pretty much either gets pissed off or feels guilty. I don't know about you, but I play this game for enjoyment, and neither of those two feelings make me feel good. Like I said, you can prepare all you want for Garchomp itself, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds myself praying on EVERY move I throw at Garchomp that it will connect.

Which is why I propose we remove its ability. Whether we give it something else or just leave it with no ability is up for discussion.

I realize such a proposal comes with a lot of baggage. For one thing you'd be straying from the actual game, and any simulator not using Garchomp's actual ability might recieve criticism from some groups. Removing Garchomp's ability would also brings up the question of "what next?" in many peoples' minds. If you successfully "even out" one Pokemon, I'm certain plenty of people will vouch for the same thing to happen for other Pokemon. Proof of this is all these topics about moving x down from Ubers into OU after Deoxys-S was moved. This is not necessarily a bad thing though. While there were many many annoying topics during the early days of DP, the end result was two new Pokemon which can fairly compete in OU. Change is good. Another question this proposal raises is what do do about other Pokes like Gliscor and Mamoswine. And probably most significant of all is that such a widespread change would be very difficult to implement. All these points must be taken into consideration.

Notice that I addressed the cons of removing Sand Veil in addition to my reasons for it. I'm doing my best to look at things from both sides, so I'd appreciate if you all would too. To reiterate, the fundamental point of my argument for removing Sand Veil is that while you can make the necessary preparations to handle Garchomp, just as you can for Gengar, Tyranitar, Gyarados, etc. there is NO WAY you can prepare yourself for the devastating effects of Sand Veil on a Pokemon where a single turn can change the game.
 

BlueCookies

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I have seen this proposed many times before, and it is seriously not a possible thing to do. Garchomp only has One ability, you can't ban it.
 

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
Luck is a part of every Pokemon, from critical hits to attack side effects to the accuracy of moves that aren't 100% accurate. I've heard this proposal before, and I'm not really into it, because as you said, you are no longer playing Pokemon.

Also, I would like to say, discussion in this thread will be limited to this proposal only. If it gets off topic, this thread will be locked.
 
Considering the proposal to make legal illegal move combinations, I really don't see a problem with this anymore. No, you're not playing Pokemon, but I will agree upon this if that proposal sets precedent. Otherwise, no, there's no point. Don't change it. Deal with Garchomp as its full self. Otherwise, play a modserver.... which it appears the metagame may be approaching.
 

Jibaku

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I don't think there's much to discuss here. If we're trying to play by the game we can't remove its ability. If he had another, ability (something that's not as annoying), then we can ban Sand Veil. But otherwise, no
 
Well, actually, you can "prepare" for Sand Veil by using Abomasnow's Blizzard...

I realize that you adressed the concerns going against your proposal, but that's all you did; you simply addressed them, and didn't really give any arguments countering them.

Because you can't remove Sand Veil as an ability on wifi, so you'd separate those metagames. This does open up new horizons (in a bad way, imo); Pokemon can be customized to any extent you like, so with those kind of options available, you need to set boundaries. If all options were left open (banning moves/abilities on certain Pokemon, etc.), everyone with their own opinion would be arguing for their Utopian dream, and it would be a bit too much to handle (unless there was just a flat out ban on that sort of discussion, which I think I'm not alone in saying that a ban like that would be bad).
 
What Jonathan was proposing was to remove Garchomp's ability on battle simulators and replace it with a placeholder ability.

I don't think that this proposal covers the whole issue on Garchomp, the way I see it Sand Veil is just the tip of the iceberg, a lot of arguments are based on Garchomp's superior base stats, typing and movepool forcing many players to have multiple counters for it. I don't find the majority of times where Garchomp influences a win to be based on Sand Veil, which only has a 1/5th chance of activating and requires Sandstorm to be in play.

I would support this move, although I still feel that it would not resolve the Garchomp issue.
 

Tangerine

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I don't think there's much to discuss here. If we're trying to play by the game we can't remove its ability. If he had another, ability (something that's not as annoying), then we can ban Sand Veil. But otherwise, no
This.

Not only is that, but it's been proposed before, and we're not going to ban an ability off a Pokemon. And If this is for Shoddy, then you're at the wrong place - this is Smogon and not ShoddyBattle Suggestions.

Not to mention Sand Veil isn't the ONLY reason people argue about Garchomp.

I'm going to assume that this is the reason the topic was closed, and I'm going to stand by it.

(Hey guys if you guys close a topic could you guys make it clear why)
 
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