An Introduction to Ubers

In preparation for the Gamestop tourney, I really got into ubers battling. I found it quite enjoyable, and actually much easier to learn than the huge OU metagame. There's only a dozen or so pokemon that are commonly used, and they mostly have relatively standard movesets. As an added bonus, an overwhelming majority of the ubers metagame is playable on Shoddy Battle.

I recommend that anyone wanting to practice prediction in competitive pokemon first try to learn the ubers metagame.


I am hoping this post can be a limited sort of introduction to the D/P ubers metagame. I am by no means an expert, but the number of pokemon that are most commonly used is so small, I felt confident I could provide an accurate view of them. Additionally, I see a lot of people asking for just such a guide, so I wanted to offer what I could to the community.






An Introduction to Ubers

Ubers is very tight
The Ubers metagame in D/P is extremely fast-paced and very tight. Pretty much everything except Giratina, Blissey, and Lugia will die in 2-3 normally-effective hits, and coming in to a super-effective attack will generally wreck a pokemon's chances of contributing to the battle. One mistake can kill your important counter and allow your opponent to sweep with a certain poke.

Because of this, prediction and knowing your options is extremely important in the ubers metagame. Being able to think moves ahead is almost required: "Okay, if Metagross takes too much damage now, Deoxys will come in and sweep me" or, "okay, I have to sacrifice this pokemon, because the only poke that can counter this threat is too low to switch in; I have to revenge-kill." If you mispredict with a choice user, you'll likely give your opponent a free switch in; which in ubers, could easily cost you a poke.

Ubers is very small
There's only x number of pokemon that are viable and can compete in the ubers metagame. Anything else is partially novelty, and while it has the potential to take you by surprise, it will definitely have a much harder time doing so (if only because its stats are 2/3 that of a “normal” uber). You don't have to memorize the types and capabilities of some 50-100 pokemon, only about a dozen.

Ubers is decisive
There are very few stall techniques that work in ubers, as most of the pokes die in 2-3 hits. Lugia and Giratina are some pokemon that can actually pull it off, but these tactics really aren't very common. Some pokemon (Mewtwo and Deoxys especially) are so fast and so strong, sometimes the only way to scare them away is with revenge kills, making one side lose a pokemon each time one of these show their faces. Ubers battles rarely (if ever) degenerate into stalemates, making virtually all of them fast-paced and "exciting" battles.






The Pokes You'll Fight in Ubers

Below are some builds that seem to be the most common currently. (NOT necessarily the one I'd recommend using.) This is of course, highly-arguable, but I’m still open to intelligent input on what’s the “most common” build for a poke.


When I refer to stats, I’m always talking about their base stat.

The pokes listed below are sort of arranged in “most common” to “least common,” though as has been stated, this is highly subjective.

Blissey (NRM) - Analysis - Sporting 135 Special Defense, a whopping 255 HP, and a reliable recovery move, Blissey can completely wall any sweeper that relies on purely Special attacks by using a Calm nature and 252 Sp.Def EVs. She can also wall any stat-boosting special sweeper by using Psych Up or Calm Mind herself. She's even more omni-present in Ubers than in OU play, so you better get used to seeing her.

The common solution to get around Blissey is to put STAB physical moves on special sweepers that are likely to fight her, even ones with (relatively) pitiful attack stats like Kyogre (100 Atk). Palkia often carries Aqua tail just for Blissey. With her massive Special Defense, she can even take non-boosted Choice Specs special fighting moves; throwing fighting attacks on random Special Sweepers is not a Blissey counter.

Blissey is also vulnerable to Choice Band Metagross who can switch in and maul her for 99% with Meteor Mash because she's Calm (+Sp.Def) preventing her from switching in again except as a sacrifice. Using Pursuit, Metagross will deal about 50% if she has 252 defense EVs, or can OHKO low/min defense blisseys, which are relatively common in Ubers.

The pros say to use Psych Up Blissey, but so far Calm Mind bolt-beamers seem to be the most common.

A common Blissey:

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Calm (+Sp.Def, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def / 4 Sp.Atk
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Thunder/Thunderbolt
- Softboiled

This seems to be the most common Blissey. It's vulnerable to a ton of things like Waterfall Kyogre, and Aqua Tail Palkia, and can be OHKO by Pursuit Metagross. Don't use it, as any pro will tell you to run max Def EVs instead of HP. Nearly as common, is Blissey with some Defense EVs. Ubers Blissey virtually always runs Calm.


Kyogre (WTR) - Analysis - Sporting an insane 150 Special Attack, as well as a massive 140 Special Defense, Kyogre is on virtually every team. Its ability, Drizzle, automatically sets up rain, and it's a favored lead because of it. Because of Kyogre, the majority of ubers fights do take place in the rain, unless Groudon comes out.

With Choice Specs and Timid (+Speed), Kyogre can reach a ridiculous Sp.Atk of 598. With Choice Scarf, it can outspeed all other ubers except for Deoxys-F with a speed nature. In an environment where 2 hits can kill the majority of threats, the choice scarf seems to be the more common variant, as an extra attack will get you more benefit than one attack that's 50% stronger.

With its tremendous Special Defense, it often takes two, high-powered Thunders to take it down. In the meantime, it can hit hard (or first) with the insane Water Spout. Although this move deals less damage as Kyogre loses HP, it starts at 150 BP, STAB, and +50% because of the rain (which Kyogre will always be fighting under, as Groudon fears switching in to STAB water attacks, even with sunlight). Most ubers that don't resist water will die in 2 hits to a water spout, so switching into a full health Kyogre is a fearsome task indeed. Fortunately, Blissey is often a good switch-in to Kyogre (except Choice Specced Water Spouts which still deal over 50%), and if she didn't take too much, she can Calm Mind or Psych Up.

Scarf Kyogre is also ridiculously common as a lead, and if your lead forces it out, you'll start with an advantage in some 80% of ubers matches.

A common Kyogre:

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
Nature: Modest (+Sp.Atk, -Atk)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
- Water Spout
- Surf
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Kyogre also sometimes uses Life Orb and Calm Mind (with a Timid, +Speed nature), but the Choice Scarf (Modest, +Sp.Atk) variant seems to be preferred.


Palkia
(WTR/DRG) - Analysis - With 150 Special Attack, Palkia is certainly the more common of the new D/P poster-pokes, and Palkia's water typing makes it a terror in the rain. Since most teams sport Kyogre anyway, Palkia is a highly-likely next choice.

Surf + Life Orb + Rain deals great damage, preventing the faster ubers like Deoxys-F and Mewtwo from switching in . Palkia's 100 speed lets it outspeed the "older" 90 speed ubers (when Palkia is Timid [+Speed]), making them not want to switch in, either (unless Scarf Kyogre can predict a water attack). Spacial Rend provides strong STAB and OHKOs Lati@s, as well as Deoxys-F and Mewtwo on the switch-in. The possibility of Palkia carrying Aqua Tail makes Blissey stay away as well (who takes 67-80% even if she has 252 EVs in Defense).

Because of this, Palkia is an uber that has "no true counters." You'll have to predict or revenge-kill to get in completely safely. To handle these threats, Life Orb is the preferred item over a choice item, as Palkia can still outspeed all the old ubers if Palkia mispredicts a switch.

A common Palkia:

Palkia @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Hasty (+Speed, -Def)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
- Surf
- Thunder
- Spacial Rend
- Aqua Tail


Mewtwo (PSY) - Analysis - Running off 130 speed, and threatening with 154 Special Attack, Mewtwo is still very common in ubers, despite being relatively hard to switch in. With a diverse movepool outrunning everything except Scarf Kyogre and Deoxys-F, Mewtwo can hit lots of things hard and super-effective with Life Orb or Choice Specs. Incredible as a revenge-killer; once Mewtwo is brought into battle, it's now your opponent who has to worry about getting in safely.

Because of its speed and power, frequently the only way to scare it off is with a revenge-killer of your own. This is part of what forces fast and decisive battles in ubers, as the number of revenge opportunities you have is limited by the number of pokemon you have left.

A common Mewtwo:

Mewtwo @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid (+Speed, -Atk)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
- Calm Mind
- Taunt
- Shadow Ball
- Aura Sphere

There are myriad options for Mewtwo. You may have heard of this Mewtwo, but it can also run Choice Specs (dropping CM and Taunt), and choose from bolt/beam, flamethrower, grass knot, or even become a physical sweeper (though that is rare).


Metagross (STL/PSY) - Analysis - With 135 Attack, 130 Defense, and typing that allows it to survive in ubers, Metagross is a great "anti-metagame" pokemon for ubers use.

If Blissey shows up to wall your sweeper, switch in Metagross. The worst you'll take is 25% from her Thunder. Then fearing a meteor mash or Earthquake she'll switch out, and you can punish with Choice Banded pursuit, dealing at least 50%, or even killing/crippling her outright (if no Defense EVs).

Deoxys-F rear its head? Most of the time, you can switch in Metagross. If your opponent mispredicted with a choice item Deoxys, you can kill with Pursuit. Even taking the worst attack, Metagross can play the, "will I Bullet Punch or will I Pursuit" game with Deoxys, though it can only do this once. You may have heard stories about how Bullet Punch can stop Deoxys-F sweeps...

Being a good counter to two of the biggest threats in ubers (Deoxys-F and Blissey) earns Metagross a spot on many ubers teams.

A common Metagross:

Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Sp.Def
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Thunder Punch

The most common Metagross is also plain bad for ubers. Earthquake doesn’t hit anything except Dialga, and Pursuit helps with Blissey and Deoxys-F so much it should always be carried. You should run something like Meteor Mash/Pursuit/Explosion/Bullet Punch for ubers.


Arceus (Can be any type... WTF) - Analysis - With 120 in all stats, Arceus is a new form of uber-uber in the D/P metagame. Additionally, it can become any single type by holding one of its signature plates as its hold item. Along with a diverse movepool and Judgement, which gives it a 100 BP, 100% accurate STAB move of Arceus' type, the possibilities are almost endless.

Unfortunately, there just hasn't been enough D/P playtesting for something with as many options as Arceus. It can be EVed offensively or defensively, and just giving it STL, BUG, or NRM typing can radically change its options and counters. On Shoddy Battle, the only type that is functional is NORMAL Arceus, so I'll discuss that here. I really don't know much about any of the other types.

Extremespeed Arceus - With Swords Dance, solid defenses, and STAB Extremespeed, Arceus can begin to OHKO a ton of ubers with just one Swords Dance. Don't let this set up on you - easier said than done, unfortunately, as the very offensive pokes that could kill Arceus quickly are instead OHKO by Swords-Danced Extremespeed. Metagross can't explode on it because Arceus carries Earthquake. Giratina is immune to extreme speed and can Will-o-wisp in return, but Arceus can just keep Swords Dancing. Lugia can switch in on the dance, and then Whirlwind it away, but will take 50-60% from +2 Shadow Claw, so it can only do this once depending on what gets dragged out.

A common Arceus:

Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Be gay and become any type
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Speed
- Swords Dance
- Extremespeed
- ???
- Profit!

(Sigh, it’s usually Earthquake and Shadow Claw in the last slots…)

Arceus, when refined and properly utilized as the metagame develops, will likely be a powerhouse that every team will need to have one of, if they want to be competitive.


Darkrai
(DRK) - Analysis - With 125 speed and an 80%-accurate sleep move (Dark Void), you better switch in something you’re okay with being asleep when Darkrai shows its face. If you’re playing without Sleep Clause, this poke is almost unstoppable.

Fortunately, Darkrai’s attack power is not too overpowering (135 Sp.Atk), and its defenses are extremely frail (70 HP, 90/90 Defense). Although it can throw Dark Pulse, Focus Blast, Thunder, and Ice Beam around, you can usually take it out if you’re able to take one or two hits from those attacks. With Sleep Clause, you get to choose what goes to sleep when your foe switches Darkrai in, making this poke reasonably powered, rather than insane.

A common Darkrai:

Darkrai @ Blackglasses
Ability: Bad Dreams
Nature: Timid (+Speed, -Atk)
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk / 4 Sp.Def / 252 Speed
- Calm Mind
- Dark Void
- Taunt
- Dark Pulse

Darkrai has myriad options, and hasn’t really settled on a most common “standard” yet, so here’s one that’s cool.


Giratina (GHS/DRG) - Analysis - With 150 HP, 120 in both defenses and immunity to Normal/Fighting, the only thing preventing Giratina from changing the metagame heavily is the lack of a reliable recovery move. You may have seen its ability to rest-talk and shuffle through teams. It can also run Choice Specs or Choice Band, and switch in pretty easily with its sturdy HP.

Once your opponent pulls themselves together after the shock of seeing an uber caterpillar, however, Giratina really dislikes taking powerful super-effective attacks. With weaknesses to Dragon, Ice, Dark and even Ghost attacks, lots of pokes can hurt it even if it’s rest-shuffling, or predict the switch and take a massive chunk of HP off when Giratina comes in. Combined with Giratina’s slow speed (90), this could make Giratina struggle to force out the pokes it wants to. Additionally, as Surgo pointed out, if Giratina wants to wall massive physical threats like Groudon successfully, it's going to need Will-o-wisp.

But in a metagame where every single switch can turn a loss into a victory, Giratina’s sturdiness may prove quite an asset in the long run.

A common Giratina:

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Bold/Impish (+Def or +Sp.Def)
EVs: 252 Def / 252 Sp.Def / filler
- Toxic / Dragon Claw/Pulse
- Roar / Will-o-Wisp / Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk


Lugia (PSY/FLY) - Analysis - With 106 HP, 130 Defense, 154 Special Defense, a respectable 110 speed and a reliable recovery move (Roost, which also rids it of 3 weaknesses), Lugia is perhaps one of the best all-around walls in the game.

It can be specced for Defense or Special Defense, though is usually on the Defensive side, since Blissey covers Sp.Def so well. Furthermore, even if it's specced in primarily one defensive stat, its other stat will be no slouch either. Lugia laughs at anti-Blissey gimmicks like Aqua Tail Kyogre/Palkia, or CB Pursuit Metagross (when Lugia stays in).

It also has access to an array of stalling tactics, such as Calm Mind, Toxic, and Whirlwind. Because of its reliable recovery and beefy defenses, it can actually pull these off, even in the super-offensive metagame that is D/P. It can even PP stall with Pressure and Roost. Unless you have some way of dealing with Lugia quickly and decisively (Taunt Mewtwo/Darkrai/Mew, or an overwhelming sweeper like Kyogre or Deoxys), it can and will sweep a team, slowly but surely.

Something that seriously hinders Lugia’s walling ability is Stealth Rock, as the flying beast takes a potentially-crippling 25% when it switches in.

A common Lugia:

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Speed
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Aeroblast
- Roost

This seems to be the most common set, though I think it’s foolish as Lugia should pretty much always have Whirlwind to stop stat-uppers. With Calm Mind, Roost, and WW, Lugia takes a lot of teams unprepared.


Deoxys-F (PSY) - Analysis - Simply monstrous: running off of 150 Speed, and 180 Attack/Sp.Attack, Deoxys-F is the true essence of the “glass cannon” with its 20 Defense/Sp.Defense, and 50 HP. Timid/Jolly/Hasty (+Speed) Deoxys can even outrun Choice Scarf Kyogre and Adamant DD Rayquaza if you want. With a huge movepool and the option to run either Physical or Special attacks, every team needs a way to scare off Deoxys, lest it sweep your team.

Priority moves are Deoxys' bane, as it can't survive even a scratch from wimpy moves like Bullet Punch (Metagross), or non-STAB Extremespeed (Rayquaza). Even then, however, the problem lies in getting a poke with such a move in against Deoxys. Like Mewtwo, once Deoxys is in, it's likely staying in until it kills something and you can revenge with a poke that can either take a hit, or has a priority move, because Deoxys is going first.

A common Deoxys-F:

Deoxys-F @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Rash (+Sp.Atk, -Sp.Def)
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
- Shadow Ball
- Thunder / HP Fire
- Superpower
- Psycho Boost

This seems to be the most common set, and you may be tempted to run an attack nature, considering Deoxys’ outrageous 150 speed, but running a +speed nature allows Deoxys to outrun things like Scarf Kyogre (which is very common) and Adamant Dragon Dance Rayquaza.


Rayquaza (FLY/DRG) - Analysis - The Ubers version of Garchomp, Rayquaza has access to the 120 BP Outrage, feeding off a nasty Attack of 150. Even scarier than Garchomp, Rayquaza has access to Dragon Dance, allowing him to outspeed everything but Timid/Jolly Deoxys-F after just one dance.

Unlike OU Garchomp, however, his typing and weak defenses (105 HP and 90/90 Def/Sp.Def) make it extremely hard for him to come in and set up on anything in the Ice/Dragon-move-heavy D/P metagame. Even Blissey with no stat-boosts can be risky; if Ray switches in on an Ice Beam he won't be able to Dragon Dance.

Once it does get a dance off, very little can survive all of Rayquaza's options. Metagross can survive Outrage and Explode or Meteor Mash in return, but Rayquaza can also pack a fire move, and its superior speed will let it see what came in on it. Lugia can do the same, but is also scared by Stone Edge. A +speed Deoxys can also outspeed and scare Rayquaza away if Rayquaza is Adamant.

Rayquaza also gets access to Swords Dance, but its relatively-slow 95 speed and 4x Ice Weakness make this highly undesirable compared to Dragon Dance. Like Scarf vs. Specs Kyogre, getting another attack (or any attack at all) is much better than getting one attack that's 25% more powerful (2 stages vs. 1 stage).

A common Rayquaza:

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.Atk)
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Speed
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake / Overheat
- Extremespeed


Groudon
(GRD) - Analysis - Ah, poor Groudon. Although its 150 Attack and 140 Defense are as outrageous as Kyogre's special atk/def stats, Groudon suffers from the fact that the weather he sets up doesn't help his STAB. Even worse, most uber teams love the rain a lot more than the sun (because of Thunder), and if your rainy weather is taken away, your signature move isn't crippled (Solarbeam becomes unusable, whereas Thunder only loses 30% accuracy). Also, Groudon's version of Kyogre's 150 BP move is for some reason a Special Attack. =(

So once Groudon comes in, he's really not nearly as huge a threat. Fliers like Lugia can avoid his ground STAB completely, and Groudon's pitiful 90 Special Defense and Speed means anyone that gets in will certainly pose an overwhelming threat to Groudon.

Nevertheless, he is a hard physical hitter, and can shut off the rain so many ubers teams love. In a metagame dominated by rain teams and strong special attackers/defenders, clever players may find ways to exploit this.

A common Groudon:

Groudon @ Choice Band
Ability: Drought
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.Atk)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge
- Overheat

Groudon has access to Swords Dance, but his slow 90 speed means he’ll rarely get to attack before whatever switched in does.


Latias/Latios (PSY/DRG) – Analysis/Analysis - The "Lati twins" as they're called seem to be rarely used in D/P ubers play. It may be due to everyone running around with Dragon or Ice moves. The latis have trouble switching into Palkia, Dialga, Rayquaza, Mewtwo, Deoxys, Lugia, and also Blissey pretty much walls them. Metagross can also switch in on anything but Thunder/HP Fire and punish their weak physical defenses with CB Pursuit/Meteor Mash.

Once they do get in, however, the Latis are fast (110 speed) special threats that are also relatively beefy (thanks to Soul Dew, which gives an extra 50% to Sp.Atk and Sp.Def) as long as they can avoid super-effective moves. As said above, though, this is difficult in D/P's anti-psychic-and-dragon metagame.

A common Lati@s:

Lati@s @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid (+Speed, -Atk)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
- Thunder/Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Honestly I don’t really know what the most common Lati builds are.


Mew (PSY) - Analysis - With “only” 100 stats across the board, the only reason Mew is in ubers is because of his unique talent of being able to learn every TM in the game. Although he can be EVed and Natured any way to become a physical or special sweeper, there are many, many, many ubers that do both of these much better than Mew. Instead, mew is most commonly used for set-ups like Baton Passing stat-ups. Along with Hypnosis, Mew has a surprisingly good chance of doing this, once he’s in.

A common Mew:

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Nature: Timid (+Speed, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Speed
- Taunt
- Hypnosis
- Nasty Plot
- Baton Pass


Dialga (DRG/STL) - Analysis - If Groudon is the under-appreciated sibling to Kyogre, Dialga is the physical-wallish half-half sibling of Palkia. With slightly higher HP (100) and slightly lower speed (90), Dialga also boasts Palkia’s impressive 120 Attack and 150 Special Attack, as well as incredible typing leaving it weak to only Fighting/Ground, and resisting such notable types as Water/Electric/Psychic/Dark.

Unfortunately, the 90 speed is almost completely crippling; whereas Palkia (100 speed) can outspeed Kyogre/Rayquaza/Groudon at will, Dialga is left behind at best tying with non-scarf Kyogre and Groudon. It also doesn’t get STAB water moves in the rain, which turns Palkia into an all-star with “no real counters” and makes Dialga look like something that “might make an interesting wall.”

Because of this, Dialga is only rarely seen in D/P ubers.

A common Dialga:

Dialga @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid (+Speed, -Atk)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
- Draco Meteor
- Overheat
- Aura Sphere
- Thunder


Forretress (BUG/STL) - Analysis - Rarely seen, Forretress seems to be mainly an exploding wall with utility (it can rapid spin, stealth rock, and also set up spikes). Its typing is exceptional for ubers (resists Dragon, Psychic, Ice, Dark, and Ghost) and Fire is only carried by Groudon, or sometimes Mewtwo/Deoxys (and Ho-oh, lol). It can resist Rayquaza's outrage like a pro, and explode in its face as well.
 
Using Your Ubers

When EVing your pokemon, you may be interested in the Ubers Speed Tiers list.


Blissey
(NRM) - Analysis - Blissey is the premiere Special Defense wall, and should be on virtually every team. Always run defense EVs (and definitely Def over HP), unless you enjoy getting OHKO'd by Pursuit Metagross and random physical STAB moves on Special Sweepers you're trying to wall.

Blissey needs Psych Up or Calm Mind in order to match Special Sweepers that also use Calm Mind. For serious ubers, Psych Up is preferable to Calm Mind, as you can match their power with fewer moves.

Thunder and Ice Beam is always safe. Aromatherapy would in theory save a pokemon and let it try to sweep again, but ubers is even faster than OU, so clericing is incredibly risky.

Keep Blissey away from any uber physical sweepers: Metagross, Rayquaza, Groudon, Palkia (unless you're positive it doesn't have Aqua Tail), and Physical Mewtwo/Deoxys (though these variants are extrmely rare... for now).

Although Blissey can still be 2HKO by full health Choice Specs Kyogre's Water Spout (thanks Surgo!), she is usually a good switch-in. Just watch out for Waterfall on it (though this is also rare... for now).

In theory you should use Thunder if you have rain support, or Thunderbolt if you don't. Right now, though, rain (Kyogre, really) is so common I'd just recommend using Thunder, unless your team is trying to keep the sun shining.

An ubers Blissey you probably should use:

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Calm (+Sp.Def, -Atk)
EVs: 252 Def / 252 Sp.Def / 4 Sp.Atk
- Psych Up
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Softboiled

Switch in to a special sweeper, and answer with Thunder or Icebeam and Softboiled until they go away. If they're trying to boost, switch in and Psych Up, attacking as they boost, and keeping up with Psych Up. Run away when a physical sweeper shows its head.


Kyogre (WTR) - Analysis - Use Kyogre if you need rain (great for Palkia, Manaphy, and anything with Thunder), or if you just like using one of the craziest ubers in the game.

You should almost always have both Water Spout and Surf, as Water Spout deals 57% more to start, but becomes pitiful once Kyogre is damaged. Kyogre can switch into lots of special attacks, and can even take a Thunder to the face sometimes and live.

Choice Scarf is the preferred set; if you don't run it Kyogre gets outrun by almost everything, and only ties with Groudon. For now, you can run Modest (+Sp.Atk) until more +Speed nature Deoxys and Rayquaza show up.
An ubers Kyogre you probably should use:

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
Nature: Modest (+Sp.Atk, -Atk)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
- Water Spout
- Surf
- Thunder
- Ice Beam/Waterfall

Ice Beam for Lati@s, Waterfall for Blissey. Lead or revenge-kill, and unleash your Water Spout, or switch in to Special Attacks not named Thunder and threaten with Surf in the rain. Use your prediction skills and your opponent will have a tough time bringing anything in, because he'll have to endure two attacks (since you are faster with scarf, and Deoxys-F will die in one hit to anything you throw).


Palkia (WTR/DRG) - Analysis - Like the analysis says, nothing can switch into this monstrosity in the rain.

An ubers Palkia you probably should use:

Palkia @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Hasty (+Speed, -Def)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
- Surf
- Thunder
- Spacial Rend
- Aqua Tail

Blissey stays away because of Aqua Tail. Thunder takes care of Kyogre. Spacial Rend kills Latis, Rayquaza, Dialga, and Giratina. Surf kills Deoxys, Mewtwo, Metagross, etc etc etc.

Lugia with Roost that is faster than you can switch-in to even Thunder, but with stealth rock you have a chance of killing the giant bird.

Run Hasty to outspeed everything but Scarfers, Mewtwo, Deoxys-F, Lugia and Lati@s. Sounds like a lot, but most of the above can be OHKO'd or don't OHKO in return anyway, so use Life orb so you can outspeed a lot and finish with the right move even if you mispredicted.


Mewtwo (PSY) - Analysis - Mewtwo has sooo many options I can't give even a remotely definitive build for it.

So here's a neat one, from the Analysis page:

Mewtwo @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid (+Speed, -Atk)
EVs: 42 HP / 216 Speed / 252 Sp.Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot
- Aura Sphere

Shadow Ball hits Psychics like Lati@s, Lugia, Mewtwo, and Deoxys hard. Flamethrower will almost OHKO Groudon (thanks for the sun!) and slams Metagross. Aura Sphere demolishes Darkrai and Grass Knot will take care of Kyogre (and keep Groudon from switching in, even if you're locked into it).

However, don't use this as a lead as it gets OHKO'd by Scarf Kyogre Water Spout, so you'll have to switch out. This gets in best as a revenge killer, but you outspeed everything but Scarf users and Deoxys, so here's some things you're faster than and could switch in to (if you're sure you'll OHKO):

+Speed Palkia (Life Orb/Choice Specs): Spacial Rend (98%), Thunder (78%), Aqua Tail (80%). Not Surf in the rain.
+
 
Looks good so far, but a few more non-ubers deserve mention imo.

You listed a sweeper lugia set, but the most common seems to be along the lines of Toxic/Whirlwind/Restalk/Light Screen/Reflect or so.

Shedinja may be worth a note - especially as it walls all forms of Kyogre/Palkia.
 

obi

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I'm about to leave, so I'm just going to comment on this, since htat's as far as I got.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Calm (+Sp.Def, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def / 4 Sp.Atk
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Thunder/Thunderbolt
- Softboiled


Horrible EVs! Max Defense will give Blissey a much better life-span than max HP. Max HP vs. min HP is a 9.68% increase in Defense and Special Defense. Max Defense as opposed to min Defense gives you a 113.1% increase to Defense. This means you aren't automatically OHKOed by Waterfall Kyogre.


Also Forretress took a massive hit in ubers from ADV-->DP. It lost physical Hidden Power Bug, and Pin Missile, on average, does less damage super effective than Return does neutral, and Return hits Rayquaza etc. neutral. You lose you 2HKO on a lot of Psychics, though, so it's not really worth it. All it has over Cloyster is Normal and Dragon resist and Toxic immunity, whereas Cloyster has the advantage of STAB Ice Beam / Avalanche. Both get Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, Explosion, and Rest.
 
Wobba and Ho-oh derserve a mention even if they're not used that much. I think Eggy might also derserve a mention since it worked pretty well in advance. The Palkia set should be Hasty or Naive not Timid since Timid lowers the damage donw by Aqua Tail.
 

Surgo

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Pretty much everything except Giratina and Blissey will die in 2-3 normally-effective hits
You can add Lugia to this list.

Kyogre
Fortunately, Blissey can usually wall Kyogre like a pro, and Calm Mind up against the Choice variants.
Not necessarily. If Blissey is not Calm:
438 attack vs. 369 defense, 150 power, times 2.25: 288 - 339 (target hp: 651 - 714)

That's max+ special attack Choice Scarf Kyogre using Water Spout against max (but not max+) special defense Blissey. I hope you don't have any residual damage or, God forbid, Stealth Rock (which you shouldn't anyway...that's a free set-up turn), in which case Kyogre can 2HKO you. So yeah, you can "wall" Kyogre...unless it rolls maximum damage twice, or doesn't critical.

And how do you plan to Calm Mind up against a pokemon that is faster than you are, and barely misses the 2HKO (and 2HKOs with Choice Specs)? Okay, you switch in and take ~48%. Calm Mind as you take another 48%. The next hit kills.

That being said, Blissey is a pretty reliable switch in if it's at full health. You shouldn't worry so much about Stealth Rock either...if your opponent is silly enough to waste a turn setting it up, you should be taking opportunity of the free turn advantage by bringing in and setting up your own ridiculous sweeper. This, of course, is much easier said than done! I suspect Cloyster might make a pretty good Stealth Rock user, as the guys you want to set up in a single turn are generally physical so they don't get walled by Psych Up Blissey, but Cloyster has some nice defense and a STAB Ice Beam answer to the most common phyiscal sweepers.

Okay, typing this out, I think that maybe I've underestimated Stealth Rock in ubers, at least on something like Cloyster.

Mewtwo:
I really dislike anything besides Leftovers on Calm Mind (or Bulk Up) sets.

Metagross
Deoxys-F rear its head? Switch in Metagross, who will take no more than 50% from any attack except Thunder/HP Fire. If you ate a thunder, you can Bullet Punch to OHKO Deoxys-F. If you switched in on anything else, you can Pursuit to permanently rid yourself of the threat. And you may have heard stories about how Bullet Punch can stop Deoxys-F sweeps...
One of the reasons that I and others find Deoxys-F so scary this generation is because Choice Specs Shadow Ball can 2HKO Metagross no matter what special defense it has. As far as Life Orb goes, let's see...
504 attack vs. 279 defense, 80 power, times 1.30: 135 - 159 (target hp: 321 - 384)
504 attack vs. 279 defense, 120 power, times 1.30: 202 - 239 (target hp: 321 - 384)

That's a max+ special attack Life Orb Deoxys-F hitting Metagross (max special defense, not max+ as you want adamant) with a Shadow Ball (the switch-in turn), followed up with a Thunder (hey, it can switch moves!). Definitely gets the 2HKO. Of course one can say "lol Bullet Punch" to any of this, but then you have to play the horrible coinflip game of guessing whether you should Bullet Punch or Pursuit. The right choice leaves you with a badly damaged Metagross and a dead Deoxys-F, the wrong choice leaves you with a badly damaged Metagross and alive-and-well Deoxys-F.

So the verdict? Metagross can stop Deoxys-F...50% of the time.

Giratina
Needs Will-o-Wisp if you're depending on it to stop Groudon. This isn't optional.

Rayquaza
Timid Kyogre will outspeed it with a Choice Scarf unless Rayquaza is Jolly, which loses you a ton of power and is generally undesirable. Choice Scarf on random shit will also revenge kill it really nicely.

Groudon
Even worse, most uber teams love the rain a lot more than the sun (because of Thunder)
This can be considered an asset in many cases...very anti-metagame.
 

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
Surgo, Palkia never has Waterfall because it doesn't get Waterfall, oddly enough. Also, the Darkrai set that seems to be preferred has Substitute over Taunt. Consider adding Exeggutor, which has historically been fairly common on sunshine teams.
 

Bologo

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Deoxys-L should get a mention because, even though its defenses may not be as good as Giratina, they are still solid. Also, Deoxys-L is pretty much the BEST pokemon for setting up Stealth Rock or Spikes.
 

Surgo

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Great Sage said:
Surgo, Palkia never has Waterfall because it doesn't get Waterfall, oddly enough.
Well, that sure is embarassing. Guess I'll check the pokedex before just trusting the analyses of other people next time I try to make a statement like that, lol.
 
You listed a sweeper lugia set, but the most common seems to be along the lines of Toxic/Whirlwind/Restalk/Light Screen/Reflect or so.
Ahh, you're right. I'll change it to... Reflect/WW/Roost/Toxic, I think?

========================================

Shedinja may be worth a note - especially as it walls all forms of Kyogre/Palkia.
You're right; even though I've never seen one, it should be mentioned. Can all it really do is Toxic back?

========================================

Blissey @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def / 4 Sp.Atk

Horrible EVs! Max Defense will give Blissey a much better life-span than max HP.
I totally agree with you, you're absolutely correct! However, I'm listing it as "apparently the most common build", not one I'd recommend. I'll make that more noticeable up above.

Maybe the real build has EVs in Sp.Atk, rather than HP? All I know is only one Blissey I've ever fought in ubers took 50% instead of ~99% from my CB Pursuit Metagross.

========================================

Also Forretress took a massive hit in ubers from ADV-->DP. It lost physical Hidden Power Bug, and Pin Missile, on average, does less damage super effective than Return does neutral, and Return hits Rayquaza etc. neutral. You lose you 2HKO on a lot of Psychics, though, so it's not really worth it. All it has over Cloyster is Normal and Dragon resist and Toxic immunity, whereas Cloyster has the advantage of STAB Ice Beam / Avalanche. Both get Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, Explosion, and Rest.
Hmm, okay. Very good to know. How do you think the description in the guide should read? I don't want to talk about what it lost as much as what it can currently do in D/P. I've seen it a couple times and Cloyster none, so I'm assuming it's common enough to at least mention.

========================================

Wobba and Ho-oh derserve a mention even if they're not used that much.
I've never seen poor Wobba, but I have seen Ho-oh. Poor Ho-oh absolutely sucks in this metagame, though. You're right, he is worth a mention, but I might just do it later.

========================================

I think Eggy might also derserve a mention since it worked pretty well in advance.
Consider adding Exeggutor, which has historically been fairly common on sunshine teams.
For this guide/post I want to focus just on D/P, not as much on Advance. I've never seen Exeggutor, nor even a Sunny team (just teams that happened to have Groudon). Are people actually using him in D/P, and am I just unlucky not seeing him?

========================================

The Palkia set should be Hasty or Naive not Timid since Timid lowers the damage donw by Aqua Tail.
Good catch! Fixed!

========================================

You can add Lugia to this list.
Okay, cool, I wasn't as confident about adding Lugia. Added!

========================================

Not necessarily.

[lots of numbers showing exactly why]

That being said, Blissey is a pretty reliable switch in if it's at full health.
Wow, excellent point. I guess I'm used to switching her into Thunder, and haven't taken the full brunt of a Specs Kyogre. I've reworded the offending sentence to:

TheMaster42 said:
Fortunately, Blissey is often a good switch-in to Kyogre (except Choice Specced Water Spouts which still deal over 50%), and if she didn't take too much, she can Calm Mind or Psych Up.
That seem more accurate to you?

========================================

You shouldn't worry so much about Stealth Rock either...if your opponent is silly enough to waste a turn setting it up, you should be taking opportunity of the free turn advantage by bringing in and setting up your own ridiculous sweeper. This, of course, is much easier said than done! I suspect Cloyster might make a pretty good Stealth Rock user, as the guys you want to set up in a single turn are generally physical so they don't get walled by Psych Up Blissey, but Cloyster has some nice defense and a STAB Ice Beam answer to the most common phyiscal sweepers.

Okay, typing this out, I think that maybe I've underestimated Stealth Rock in ubers, at least on something like Cloyster.
Stealth rock certainly makes my Lugia a sad birdie. =(

Is there anywhere in the current post, that you see this information might be well-placed? I don't have a section that stealth rock might go under, hmm... I'll probably do it in the second half when I talk about individual stealth rockers.

========================================

Mewtwo:
I really dislike anything besides Leftovers on Calm Mind (or Bulk Up) sets.
In your opinion, what would be the most common sets that you've seen? I'm really shaky about that for Mewtwo.

========================================

Metagross

One of the reasons that I and others find Deoxys-F so scary this generation is because Choice Specs Shadow Ball can 2HKO Metagross no matter what special defense it has. As far as Life Orb goes, let's see...
504 attack vs. 279 defense, 80 power, times 1.30: 135 - 159 (target hp: 321 - 384)
504 attack vs. 279 defense, 120 power, times 1.30: 202 - 239 (target hp: 321 - 384)

That's a max+ special attack Life Orb Deoxys-F hitting Metagross (max special defense, not max+ as you want adamant) with a Shadow Ball (the switch-in turn), followed up with a Thunder (hey, it can switch moves!). Definitely gets the 2HKO. Of course one can say "lol Bullet Punch" to any of this, but then you have to play the horrible coinflip game of guessing whether you should Bullet Punch or Pursuit. The right choice leaves you with a badly damaged Metagross and a dead Deoxys-F, the wrong choice leaves you with a badly damaged Metagross and alive-and-well Deoxys-F.

So the verdict? Metagross can stop Deoxys-F...50% of the time.
Ahh, now I understand. So far my Metagross had been a solid counter to Deoxys. I see now this was against players that didn't understand this situation, however. I've changed the wording to:

TheMaster42 said:
Deoxys-F rear its head? Most of the time, you can switch in Metagross. If your opponent mispredicted with a choice item Deoxys, you can kill with Pursuit. Even taking the worst attack, Metagross can play the, "will I Bullet Punch or will I Pursuit" game with Deoxys, though it can only do this once. You may have heard stories about how Bullet Punch can stop Deoxys-F sweeps...

Being a good counter to two of the biggest threats in ubers (Deoxys-F and Blissey) earns Metagross a spot on many ubers teams.
========================================

Giratina
Needs Will-o-Wisp if you're depending on it to stop Groudon. This isn't optional.
I've added this:

TheMaster42 said:
Additionally, as Surgo pointed out, if Giratina wants to wall massive physical threats like Groudon successfully, it's going to need Will-o-wisp.
Sound good?

========================================

Rayquaza
Timid Kyogre will outspeed it with a Choice Scarf unless Rayquaza is Jolly, which loses you a ton of power and is generally undesirable. Choice Scarf on random shit will also revenge kill it really nicely.
Good point. I have a feeling Scarf Kyogre may switch over to Timid, once there are more Hasty Deoxys-Fs. Rayquaza will have to follow once it does, heh. I'll add this advice to the second section, when I get that up.

========================================

Groudon

This can be considered an asset in many cases...very anti-metagame.
Most excellent. I was wondering why I haven't seen many people trying to exploit that fact yet. Scarf, anti-rain Groudon, anyone? I've changed a sentence to read this:

TheMaster42 said:
Nevertheless, he is a hard physical hitter, and can shut off the rain so many ubers teams love. In a metagame dominated by rain teams and strong special attackers/defenders, clever players may find ways to exploit this.
========================================

Also, the Darkrai set that seems to be preferred has Substitute over Taunt.
D'oh, really? I've only fought one substitute Darkrai myself. How many Substitute Darkrai have you seen vs. other types?

========================================

Deoxys-L should get a mention because, even though its defenses may not be as good as Giratina, they are still solid. Also, Deoxys-L is pretty much the BEST pokemon for setting up Stealth Rock or Spikes.
I've never seen a single Deoxys-L. With 50 HP and 70/70 for attack stats, does its weak typing really let it do this better than Cloyster/Forretress?
 
This is a great thread but i think Tyranitar also deserves a mention in Ubers as well as Manaphy, it makes a pretty decent sweeper in Ubers with Drizzle support
 

Stallion

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Thanks this helps heaps, cause whenever I've shoddy battled I've dominated OU but struggled in ubers against the very same people. Also, the Arceus types do work but they just don't have different sprites.
 
Stealth Rock has a big use, and that's ruining the Focus Sash. Stuff like Focus Sash Deoxys-F and Mewtwo can be just plain intimidating, and it can let gimmicks like Spore/Endeavor Smeargle really catch the enemy off guard. Since Tyranitar is (understandably) going to be rare at the highest level of power, Stealth Rock is your fastest and easiest way to stop sash abuse. As you said, so much dies in one to two hits. It's a very Focus Sash friendly environment.

Stealth Rock also does 25% to Lugia which is enough to hurt its ability to switch in significantly.

As per setting up Stealth Rock, that's the beautiful equalizer. Very few of the game's strongest Pokemon get it really. Groudon, Dialga, and Arceus are really what you have to work with. Dialga being a potential SR user is actually a small bit of justice for it, especially since it's bulky enough that the enemy is not very likely to be able to OHKO it.

Shoddy Battle's real limit with respect to the strongest Pokemon is the lack of Air Lock, but I suspect that it will be implemented pretty soon (Colin was working on it). Throw in PP Ups and general bug fixing, and you're good to go. I sense the time for the full metagame test is near, and these Pokemon mentioned here are so exciting and fun to use that I have to wonder why you'd be so inclined to want to ban them from standard play. Multitype is in so that first part of that post is no longer true. Almost every good move is in; the best missing moves are probably Gravity and Snatch which are both hardly imperative.
 

Jibaku

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Uber Bliss runs more Defense than 0.
(Restating what Obi said anyway)

You also might wanna mention the mixed Darkrai set, because it gives teams a lot of problems from what I've heard.

If you're going to use Taunt Darkrai, Life Orb is suicide. If you really needed that extra power, use Blackglasses, which freely gives it a 20% boost without losing anything or relying on super effectiveness. Otherwise, use lefties.

I'd like to also say that Ice Beam lati@s aren't very good in general. Dragon Pulse is superior to it unless you really fear Groudon (in which you should just go with the Dragon Pulse/Grass Knot set, since Groudon can survive an Ice Beam). You hit Groudon and Jumpluff harder, but loses to Palkia sometimes. Dragon Pulse generally dents more stuff in ubers, such as Arceus and Deoxys.

Timid is preferred over Modest on Lati@s to outrun Palkia, who has "no real counters". I've been using the Lati@s and they work pretty well.

Finally, Bliss doesn't take Kyogre's hits like a Pro. Aqua Tail/Waterfall is still a 2HKO and don't get me started on the Choice Band set
 
You're right; even though I've never seen one, it should be mentioned. Can all it really do is Toxic back?
I'm no expert, but I'd like to bring up Shedinja and do a little mini-analysis, if that's alright.


Shedinja's base stats are abysmal. Though he can't possibly make use of three of those stats, his Speed and Special Attack are still terrible. He has a 90 base attack, which is usable, and his exclusive ability Wonder Guard. Aside from making him the envy of Spiritomb everywhere, his ability lets him completely wall some of the big threats in the uber Metagame. But what really helps him is the lack of Snow Warning and Sandstream. Tyranitar and Hippowdon hold strong in OU, but die quickly in Ubers at the hands of Palkia and Kyogre. Abomasnow enjoys the Borderline/UU (I don't know anymore) setting, but fears pretty much any remotely threatening Pokemon that can go toe to toe with Ubers. Shedinja finds a niche in this cramped Metagame, but there are still threats everywhere.

Below are a list of things who can kill Shedinja:

Lati Twins (Shadow Ball)
Mewtwo (Shadow Ball)
Darkrai (Dark Void/Bad Dreams or Dark Pulse)
Metagross (Pursuit)
Arceus (Shadow Claw, or Gay Any Type Attack of Gayness)
Giratina (Will-o-Wisp/Toxic)
Lugia (Aeroblast/Toxic)
Ho-oh (Sacred Fire)
Groudon (Overheat)
Rayquaza (Overheat)
Deoxys-F (Shadow Ball)
Dialga (Overheat)
Mew (i dunno lol)
Exeggutor (HP Fire)
Forretress (Stealth Rock/Spikes/Toxic Spikes)

Yeah, compared to even OU, it looks like Shedinja is screwed. But the Pokemon it's able to stop completely are key special sweepers in the Uber metagame: Kyogre and Palkia. Though he still has a boat load of problems, consider the following:

- Groudon, Ho-oh, and Dialga are often left untouched in favor of their "special" kin.

- Most Mew are passers and don't carry attacking moves at all.

- Rayquaza also carries Earthquake over Overheat to take advantage of the DD boost, so there's always a chance Shedinja can block him.

- Forretress has almost no way of surviving in a special orriented metagame.

- With Groudon taking a back seat, Exeggutor has to sit down with him until the rain clears up.

- Giratina often carries Dragon Claw in favor of Shadow Claw, so statusing Shedinja is usually the only way to go for him.

- The Latis hardly, if ever, carry Shadow Ball, and I doubt they'll start because of Shedinja of all things. That's like having a level 100 Torterra run away from Geodude.

While this still leaves Shedinja with a good amount of trouble, he's probably surviving the switch, at least, especially on the likes of Kyogre.

With a Lum Berry in hand, Shedinja can stop status cold... or he could just get a fair warning. Either way. Shedinja has acess to protect, which allows him to see what the opponent plans on hitting you with, then a transition into the appropriate counter. If they're trying to status you, switch to a sleep absorber, or a Pokemon that doesn't mind being Burned that much. He's also got access to Will-o-Wisp and Toxic, which can put some Pokemon out of commision lest they die of Poison. Metagross in particular hates WoW. Shedinja can also change the weather with Sunny Day, which, if Kyogre has come and gone, can make a Drizzle Team hang out to dry. The fact it stops Kyogre entirely makes this work surprisingly well, in theory.

Shedinja @ Lum Berry
Ability: Wonder Guard
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.Atk)
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP (lol)
- Protect
- Shadow Claw
- Will-o-Wisp/Toxic/Sunny Day
- Will-o-Wisp/Toxic/Sunny Day

Shadow Claw is a necessity if you have a team entirely statused, and you still want to put a gash in something. Basically, it's filler so Shedinja has use beyond blocking Kyogre and Palkia. Not that those are small feats, anyway.

...

So, how'd I do?
 
That moveset is pretty bad because Protect, Detect and Endure all have the same effect thing, so if you use them in succesion they are more likely to fail.

Also why Lum berry over Focus Sash and Jolly over Adamant?
 
That moveset is pretty bad because Protect, Detect and Endure all have the same effect thing, so if you use them in succesion they are more likely to fail.
I thought they were interchangable. Thanks for the tip. I'll edit that immediately.

Also why Lum berry over Focus Sash and Jolly over Adamant?
I guess I'll use Adamant instead. I forgot this was Ubers, where everything outruns Shedinja. Haha... The Lum Berry is so Shedinja at least can take one status effect. Even with the Focus Sash, he's helpless if burned/poisoned.
 
Im not really sure if anyone has mentioned this, but weather changers need to be slow to get their weather effect in. (this is only the case when to different weather changers are sent out at the same time, usually the first turn). If you are using Scarfogre then it does not really matter, but if you have a team surrounded on a weather effect, you want it to be as slow as possible.
 
Scarfcross probably deserves a mention too.

Adamant @ Choice Scarf
252 EV's Attack/Speed
Megahorn
Close Combat
Aerial Ace
Stone Edge/Earthquake/other move here

Outspeeds and drills Latios/Latias/Darkrai/Mewtwo/Mew/Adamant/Modest Deoxys-F with Megahorn, and Close Combat drills Dialga. Kinda dies horribly to Lugia/Ho-Oh/Kyogre though. Has a prayer against Groudon pending Groudon doesn't run Endure/Reversal/Salac and Fire Punch.....

-James
 
Ho-oh's stuck in limbo between the OU and Uber metagame, too powerful for one and not really good enough to see constant use in the other.
 

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