Are direct sequels inherently bad?

[Bloomer28]

People say that B/W 2 are worse than their predecessors, but is that true for all direct sequel Pokemon games from here on out?

I want to get this out of the way first, because direct sequel games and ultimate editions are two different things. A direct sequel is when a game still retains setting and thingies, but shakes up the story, characters, the time periods, etc. Now, a ultimate edition is when it's basically the same game, with some stuff added on, and maybe a gym or minor character removed, like Pokemon Platinum.

Now that's out of the way, lets get to the actual point. Sequels can use the same environment, but cant use most of the things that were in the first one. B/W 2 didn't keep N, who was the main guy in the first one, to focus on something else. They could build upon it without including him, and that's what they did. ( kind of maybe I think no wait yes) Or, they use same characters, but kinda do a gaming god move and switch the characters everything but keep the shell, and main point. They also tend to go on different adventures, but they have a similar major outline. Sequels can make new stuff in a good environment, but could get stale after a while. What do you think? Discuss it here.

 

[Zowayix]

I feel like B2W2 and USUM belong in distinct categories. B2W2 are direct sequels because they canonically take place after BW (and involve different protagonists, etc). USUM is just an Emerald/Platinum-like definitive edition split into two games. Their storyline is a separate canon from SM taking place at the same time (like how all three of R/S/E are essentially separate canons taking place at the same time).

 

[Bloomer28]

Ok. I should look better into games.

 

[Celever]

.....the number of people who rate BW higher than B2W2 is pretty small. In another OI thread right now there’s a tier list of games thing people are doing and I think B2W2 is not only higher than BW every time, but usually either S or A rank.

As pointed out USUM isn’t a sequel, but Johto is a sequel to Kanto taking place 3 years afterwards. The Johto games can be divisive, but the sequel aspect (fighting Red, Koga being promoted to Elite Four and his daughter take over as gym leader, Blue replacing Giovanni) are generally some of the most popular things about it for both Johto fans and haters.

So yeah sequels are cool and generally really popular.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

.....the number of people who rate BW higher than B2W2 is pretty small. In another OI thread right now there’s a tier list of games thing people are doing and I think B2W2 is not only higher than BW every time, but usually either S or A rank.

As pointed out USUM isn’t a sequel, but Johto is a sequel to Kanto taking place 3 years afterwards. The Johto games can be divisive, but the sequel aspect (fighting Red, Koga being promoted to Elite Four and his daughter take over as gym leader, Blue replacing Giovanni) are generally some of the most popular things about it for both Johto fans and haters.

So yeah sequels are cool and generally really popular.

uh I like BW1 more than BW2.

firstly BW1 has some actually good pacing and doesn't overstay its welcome. Yes, gap between badges 6 and 7 and then more trainers in Plasma gauntlet I'm looking at you.

secondly it feels like a remake of gen 1 with all the annoyances removed and stands on its own merits.

BW2 also takes all the nuances out of Plasma and makes them Team Rocket Card Carrying Villain clone #463. woo, they are evil because...because NOTHING they are just EVILLLLLLLLL

sure, good postgame and all, but I like how contained an experience BW1 is. I think BW2 is probably better bang for your buck, but if you had to play one and not the other, I would honestly say BW1!

 

[MrHands]

uh I like BW1 more than BW2.

firstly BW1 has some actually good pacing and doesn't overstay its welcome. Yes, gap between badges 6 and 7 and then more trainers in Plasma gauntlet I'm looking at you.

secondly it feels like a remake of gen 1 with all the annoyances removed and stands on its own merits.

BW2 also takes all the nuances out of Plasma and makes them Team Rocket Card Carrying Villain clone #463. woo, they are evil because...because NOTHING they are just EVILLLLLLLLL

sure, good postgame and all, but I like how contained an experience BW1 is. I think BW2 is probably better bang for your buck, but if you had to play one and not the other, I would honestly say BW1!

BW1 has an abysmally small pool of Pokemon to use. Unless you want the painfully boring bird / dog / rodent / cat / elemental monkey you're stuck waiting a LONG time to get anything worthwhile. Even slightly more interesting Pokemon like Munna, Timburr, Solosis, and Roggenrolla are so horribly slow that they're borderline unusable unless you want to run back to the Pokemon center every 5 minutes. Oh yeah, and lots of good Pokemon require trade evoIution, only appear specific times of the week, and have atrociously high evolution levels (Braviary, Mandibuzz, Hydreigon, Bisharp, and Volcarona are effectively unusable). There's also the issues of the starters all being boring. We have generic water type + Megahorn, useless weak grass snake, and slow fire pig who's entire movepool requires he kill himself.

I get that BW 1 has some story and pacing advantages but the Pokémon selection is just so bad that imo it's borderline unplayable. Going from the incredible variance of 4th gen to BW1 was just terrible. BW1 deserved the hate. BW2 however fixed a lot of those issues and was excellent.

 

[aegon the unlikely]

BW1 has an abysmally small pool of Pokemon to use. Unless you want the painfully boring bird / dog / rodent / cat / elemental monkey you're stuck waiting a LONG time to get anything worthwhile. Even slightly more interesting Pokemon like Munna, Timburr, Solosis, and Roggenrolla are so horribly slow that they're borderline unusable unless you want to run back to the Pokemon center every 5 minutes. Oh yeah, and lots of good Pokemon require trade evoIution, only appear specific times of the week, and have atrociously high evolution levels (Braviary, Mandibuzz, Hydreigon, Bisharp, and Volcarona are effectively unusable). There's also the issues of the starters all being boring. We have generic water type + Megahorn, useless weak grass snake, and slow fire pig who's entire movepool requires he kill himself.

I get that BW 1 has some story and pacing advantages but the Pokémon selection is just so bad that imo it's borderline unplayable. Going from the incredible variance of 4th gen to BW1 was just terrible. BW1 deserved the hate. BW2 however fixed a lot of those issues and was excellent.

Agreed, mate.

Drilbur is like the first ''good'' Pokemon I can think of that I don't find boring or kinda meh in combat.

 

[Bull Of Heaven]

Just to quickly add to the discussion of whether people prefer BW1 or BW2: From what I've seen, the people who prefer BW1 still tend to think that BW2 are solid Pokemon games, but also that BW1 are something special. It's not [usually, from what I've seen] a "sequels bad" take.

Also, because this is bugging me:

BW2 also takes all the nuances out of Plasma and makes them Team Rocket Card Carrying Villain clone #463. woo, they are evil because...because NOTHING they are just EVILLLLLLLLL

I wouldn't go that far. A lot of the nuance in BW1 comes from the fact that Team Plasma is clearly a mix of (1) true believers in the Pokemon liberation cause and (2) opportunistic criminals. What's different in BW2 is that those groups have split into separate factions, and while you do only fight against one of the factions, it's kind of interesting to see them interact.

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

Regarding the main question of the thread, I feel the same way as several others who have posted here. Sequels have generally gotten a good reception from the fandom. B2/W2 are some of the most popular games right now and while they weren't quite as positively received when they were first revealed and released, they did at least not get as heavily criticized as B/W got. They are among my personal favorites too, more about that below. The Johto games have always been very popular and while I am personally not a huge fan of them, there's no denying that the fandom at large seems to like them. If we count spin-off games as well, there's another Pokémon game which I think is a successful sequel: Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness. Perhaps there are other good sequels among the spin-off games too, but I don't know as I haven't played that many other spin-off games.

As for US/UM... while they aren't sequels, I still like them and I prefer them over S/M. But at the same time, I think they are a lot less innovative compared to B2/W2, and I guess that's one of the reasons as for why the fandom in general doesn't seem to be all that positive towards them. In terms of follow-up games, they were a step down compared to B2/W2, which in turn were a step up from the third versions of the past. B2/W2 really took the concept of a follow-up game set in the same generation and region to a whole new level, while US/UM took a step back instead. Personally, I believe that sequels would have worked very well for S/M just like they worked for B/W. I like US/UM, but I'd say they are below B2/W2 both in terms games and how innovative they were.

Lastly, regarding the discussion about B/W vs. B2/W2. From what I have seen in the fandom in general, fans generally seem to prefer the sequels over the first pair when it comes to Gen 5. But there are some fans who like B/W better than B2/W2 as DrumstickGaming showed us, I have seen some members who feel this way on other forums too. As for me, I am of a third opinion as I like both B/W and B2/W2 equally, albeit for different reasons. I like B/W because they did an amazing job at showcasing their new Pokémon, they introduced a great new region and they were the start of a fantastic generation, they had great gameplay and a lot of content for a first pair. Plus, they will always be special for me as they are the games that restored my interest in Pokémon after I was heavily burnt out on the series during the latter half of Gen 4. B2/W2 continued on the greatness from B/W by keeping all the greatness from the first pair and building upon it, and as said earlier, they were very innovative for a follow-up game compared to previous third versions. They really went all out with being different compared to the first pair while still keeping a lot of the familiarity from them. They also have the most content in the entire series to date. I also think that the game structure of first pair + sequels is ultimate for a Pokémon generation because it means you need to play one game from both pairs in order to get the full package. In comparison to many other generations where the third/alternate version makes the first pair obsolete. Those are just some of my short thoughts though. In the end, I love both B/W and B2/W2, they are tied as my favorite Pokémon games to date.

 

[mertyville]

I am honestly surprised we aren't getting sequels to older games in a more modern generation instead of remakes. I don't know if any Gen 5 fans would be upset for getting a B3W3 over remaking BW (well, guess it will be difficult with both dragons being caught by the player).

While B2W2 are my favorite games, I honestly didn't like to choose from the same starters again and the gyms feel hardly different. Sadly I don't even know what my main story team was like or which starter I picked, but I guess I can blame my disinterest for the main story for that (and no, I didn't catch a Riolu). It feels annoying to work for something you had already accomplished, unlike in Gen 2 games where you visit it as a reward for beating a different region.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

Regarding the main question of the thread, I feel the same way as several others who have posted here. Sequels have generally gotten a good reception from the fandom. B2/W2 are some of the most popular games right now and while they weren't quite as positively received when they were first revealed and released, they did at least not get as heavily criticized as B/W got. They are among my personal favorites too, more about that below. The Johto games have always been very popular and while I am personally not a huge fan of them, there's no denying that the fandom at large seems to like them. If we count spin-off games as well, there's another Pokémon game which I think is a successful sequel: Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness. Perhaps there are other good sequels among the spin-off games too, but I don't know as I haven't played that many other spin-off games.

As for US/UM... while they aren't sequels, I still like them and I prefer them over S/M. But at the same time, I think they are a lot less innovative compared to B2/W2, and I guess that's one of the reasons as for why the fandom in general doesn't seem to be all that positive towards them. In terms of follow-up games, they were a step down compared to B2/W2, which in turn were a step up from the third versions of the past. B2/W2 really took the concept of a follow-up game set in the same generation and region to a whole new level, while US/UM took a step back instead. Personally, I believe that sequels would have worked very well for S/M just like they worked for B/W. I like US/UM, but I'd say they are below B2/W2 both in terms games and how innovative they were.

Lastly, regarding the discussion about B/W vs. B2/W2. From what I have seen in the fandom in general, fans generally seem to prefer the sequels over the first pair when it comes to Gen 5. But there are some fans who like B/W better than B2/W2 as DrumstickGaming showed us, I have seen some members who feel this way on other forums too. As for me, I am of a third opinion as I like both B/W and B2/W2 equally, albeit for different reasons. I like B/W because they did an amazing job at showcasing their new Pokémon, they introduced a great new region and they were the start of a fantastic generation, they had great gameplay and a lot of content for a first pair. Plus, they will always be special for me as they are the games that restored my interest in Pokémon after I was heavily burnt out on the series during the latter half of Gen 4. B2/W2 continued on the greatness from B/W by keeping all the greatness from the first pair and building upon it, and as said earlier, they were very innovative for a follow-up game compared to previous third versions. They really went all out with being different compared to the first pair while still keeping a lot of the familiarity from them. They also have the most content in the entire series to date. I also think that the game structure of first pair + sequels is ultimate for a Pokémon generation because it means you need to play one game from both pairs in order to get the full package. In comparison to many other generations where the third/alternate version makes the first pair obsolete. Those are just some of my short thoughts though. In the end, I love both B/W and B2/W2, they are tied as my favorite Pokémon games to date.

I like both BW1 and BW2 a lot. Some of the best games in the series bar none.

Expanding on what I said earlier, BW1 for sure had flaws. Evolution levels kinda sucked for a few mons and not everyone was on board with the thing of “nothing but Unova till credits.” But as a purely new experience - the approach, while somewhat limited in team options, designs notwithstanding as that is absolutely subjective - mostly hit bullseye in my opinion, even if there were a lot of expies (which I feel makes sense as it seemed meant to be a modern throwback to Gen 1). When we tiered BW1 a lot more things were usable then seemed at first glance (like Audino, Basculin and Cryogonal).

BW2 is a fantastic game with my only real issue being the lategame pacing. But that’s nothing new really - Gen 4 did that too with Snowpoint then Galactic back to back. Plot stuff is whatever, but even most people who are neutral to Unova from who I’ve talked to quite like the climax.

 

[aegon the unlikely]

Nope, but they need to have that element of newness to them. BW2 brings in non-Unova Pokemon and changes the gyms, which is great. I may one day actually play it (not before playing BW1 too though hopefully). I wouldn't mind a Johto sequel personally, Let's Go 2 Johto would be dope. Just give them a different villain than Team Rocket this time and a much more serious threat, and make Johto itself bigger too.

 

[Machoke]

To me, B2/W2 are perfect examples of how great a sequel could be. Some reasons as to why they were so brilliant:
- They redefine the evil team.
The split between BW Team Plasma and B2/W2 Team Plasma was so brilliantly done. A team that initially posed a loaded question, "Would it be better if humans didn't have pokemon?", and provided their own answer. "Pokemon liberation" is something that is hard to fight against fully, because some of what they preach has a kernel of truth to it. Unlike other teams that are comparatively unhinged such as Plasma or straight up criminals like Rocket, Plasma is able to masquerade Ghetsis's intentions behind a "noble" cause. In B2/W2 we see that some members of Team Plasma actually hold some noble intentions and want to stop pokemon's suffering, choosing to retain their uniforms as the rest of the team slips off their mask and reveals their true intentions- take over the Unova region.

- They show the progression of main characters.
Bianca and Cheren have both grown, and their career paths fit their personalities and goals in the original base games. Alder steps down and travels the region, helping the next generation of pokemon trainers come into their own. N helps you take down Ghetsis and is able to find some peace.

- They make the region feel new.
Adding new areas to the map, increasing the availability of pokemon in the region, and adding hidden grottos all made the region feel alive and new compared to BW. Not only do you get to explore new places, but you get to revisit old locations and see how they changed over time- new pokemon being discovered, developments (such as PWT taking over cold storage and new constructions in the desert), and new trainers.

- The lore is expanded upon.
With the evil team's change in tone, we also get a vital part of the lore regarding the legendary ancient dragon in Unova and the "husk" that was left behind: Kyurem. The legend of the dragons is relevant to Unova's symbolism and themes of unity, tradition vs technology, old vs. new, etc. Kyurem, the leftover, hungry shell of a once great dragon, waits to be reunited with its missing pieces once again. To be complete, we need both old and new to unite in paving the future.

And on top of this, the games add aspects that third version games tend to have too: move tutors, battle facility (PWT), extra attraction (Pokestar Studios), etc.

B2/W2 felt almost entirely new compared to BW, and as such it didn't feel like I was playing a reskin of a game, but an entirely new game. The continuity between BW and B2/W2 was incredibly immersive and it just went above and beyond the already strong foundations that BW set.

I think even without a strong foundation, a sequel could be a great way to breathe life into a region that maybe needs it. GSC and HGSS Kanto aren't a great opinion of a fully fleshed out sequel region in my opinion (and I think that's because having two regions means there had to be cuts as to how detailed and extensive Kanto could be), but they show promise in how even something with mediocre foundations (in my opinion, Kanto is pretty mediocre) could be interesting in a sequel. Cinnabar has been destroyed by a volcano, the power plant is in use and vulnerable to attacks and outages, Lavender Town is healing now, etc. I think the concepts weren't explored as much as they could have been, but the idea is there, and it's interesting.

Let it also be know that Pokemon XD is an absolutely fantastic sequel that improved upon the already strong base game of Colosseum in so many ways and it's one of my favorite entries in the series.

My experiences with sequels compared with what seems to be generally positive reception to sequels makes me believe that sequels are generally liked among the fanbase and should be implemented more often down the line.

 

[Pikachu315111]

People say that USUM and B/W 2 are worse than their predecessors, but is that true for all direct sequel Pokemon games from here on out?

Was going to wait till reading the whole thread before giving my thoughts, but I then started to see several posts I wanted to respond to so I decided to respond to posts as I go along. So I apologize in advance if I say the same thing as someone else.

The only true core series Pokemon sequels are Gen II (GSC) to Gen I (RBY) and BW2 to BW. Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, & USUM are "enhanced" versions having added content and in some cases combined plot points which were version exclusive. This is actually quite an important distinction because at least with Crystal, Emerald, & Platinum you don't ever need to play the original paired games. Yellow and USUM are special cases: Yellow limits your Starter choice to Pikachu and adding features in relating to the franchise mascot; USUM throws a wrench into the story causing it to radically change as certain points. Because of this, playing Yellow & USUM will feel slightly different from playing RB & SM; though still one can argue since they mostly touch the same points you can play the enhanced versions & just look-up the changes from the initial paired games (with SM you'd probably want to watch a playthrough).

However this is not a case with sequels. While the sequels are games in their own right and you don't need to play the previous installment to understand what's going on, having played previous game not only gives you another unique story adventure but also adds context to certain things in the sequel game. Now the way the sequels we have do their connection is different so going to split them up into their own discussions:

• Gen II is a complicated case in this matter as the first half of the game takes place in Johto yet the main plot involves the remnants of Team Rocket trying to call back Giovanni, something you'd only know the story about have you played Gen I. The the 2nd part of the game takes place in Kanto and adds all sorts of twists and turns lost on someone who only played Gen II. However, the focus is on Gen II being their own games, thus the sequel elements are really only just a bonus. That's not bad, it just means the sequel elements aren't intrusive thus letting you play at least the Johto part of the game unaware of the Gen I connections.
• BW2 is less complicated as it still takes place in Unova but just has a bunch of new locations added to change-up the adventure so you're not going along the same path. The story I also felt was more nuanced; Team Rocket in Gen II really wasn't doing anything different than Gen I as the Admins were trying to keep the organization afloat as they tried looking for Giovanni, to the fallout of Giovanni's defeat and departure in Gen I isn't that major. However we see major fallout for Team Plasma in BW2: The team splits apart between those who want to follow N & redeem themselves and those who want to follow Ghetsis & takeover, the two groups fight each other with gang-like mentality, Neo Team Plasma no longer care for subtlety & are more openly antagonistic, Ghetsis has changed from a patient chessmaster to a violent madman, and N had gone through a spiritual and ideological change where he wants to help people & Pokemon live peacefully together now instead of splitting them apart. All this plus with what we see with many characters throughout the region makes BW2 a hard game to stand on its own as SO MUCH context goes missing without having played the first game. BUT that's not bad either, because Gen V I feel is a very strong gen both in worldbuilding and lore that you WANT TO play both BW and BW2 to get as much of the region as you can.

So, the answer is no. Sequels aren't inheritably bad. Infact I don't really see where this topic idea came from aside from the misunderstanding about what USUM is. If you want to argue if enhanced versions are inherently bad that's an ENTIRELY different conversation with a lot of factors and opinions concerning their relation with the first paired games, business practices (and whether it's a consumer friendly business practice), XY skipping it's third version/second paired games leaving a lot of questions hanging, and how SwSh has seemingly moved onto DLC instead and the questions & opinions that come from that.

.....the number of people who rate BW higher than B2W2 is pretty small.

Prefer BW myself because I feel it has a stronger story, but I'll agree BW2 has more features. I think it comes down to what you're looking for and on Smogon I feel many members lean toward more features (aka more bang for your buck & Pokemon variety) than will place the story above that. Both fair opinions, but I wouldn't use that to decide which one is considered the "superior" Gen V game.

BW2 also takes all the nuances out of Plasma and makes them Team Rocket Card Carrying Villain clone #463. woo, they are evil because...because NOTHING they are just EVILLLLLLLLL

The nuances is still there but it's now directed more toward the Plasma internal strife/civil war. Because the the thing about (Neo) Team Plasma is that, though I'm sure they recruited new members, it's still mostly made up of older members of Team Plasma. When N left Team Plasma, many members who followed N and honestly cared about Pokemon also left Team Plasma realizing they were tricked (likely going back to their previous lives before joining except for those who really felt guilty so joined Sage Rood, Anthea, & Concodia in helping right the wrongs they done as Team Plasma). This just left the members who were part of Team Plasma not because they particularly cared about the wellbeing of Pokemon but were seeking power/influence. Thus they kept following Ghetsis and dropped the "Pokemon Interest Group" charade and tried taking over Unova by force. Now I do recall there are still a few members of (Neo) Team Plasma who says they care about Pokemon, but it's more they don't want to see the Pokemon being used by their fellow teammates get mistreated than doing things for the betterment of all Pokemon (and they looked the other way of Ghetsis's treatment of Kyurem because Kyurem itself was willing to take the abuse as long as it was able to fuse with Reshiram/Zekrom in the end).

So Team Plasma isn't suddenly evil for evil sake, rather that element has actually always been there but just restrained when their leader was N. Then when N and all the well-meaning members left and Ghetsis took charge directly, the result is a sudden evil-acting Team Plasma. The saddest part about all this is when the ex-Team Plasma members and (Neo) Team Plasma members are butting heads, the ex members trying to convince their former colleagues what they're doing is wrong not realizing that these colleagues didn't actually share their interest of helping Pokemon (something you'd think each Plasma member had in common) and just wanted to be part of a group for the power it gave them over everyone else.

BW1 has an abysmally small pool of Pokemon to use. Unless you want the painfully boring bird / dog / rodent / cat / elemental monkey you're stuck waiting a LONG time to get anything worthwhile.

Out of curiosity, how is that different from the other Pokemon core series games?

I am honestly surprised we aren't getting sequels to older games in a more modern generation instead of remakes.

Or at least could have had LGPE be sequels, would justify the replacement of Red, Leaf/Green & Blue and making them cameo appearances/bonus bosses.

 

[Giratina93]

Out of curiosity, how is that different from the other Pokemon core series games?

while options up to the first gym or two tend to be limited in any game, BW it is extremely limited, with a handful of available mons by the time you are dealing with the triplets and whichever monkey thrashes your starters. Let's compare, as base games, D/P and FRLG to B/W.

D/P: By the time you get to Roark, you have a choice of eleven different types of mons, including your starter: Starter, Bidoof, Starly, Abra, Kriketune, Psyduck, Budew, Geodude, Machop, Zubat and Onix.

FRLG: Starter,Ratatta, Caterpie, Weedle, Pidgey, Pikachu, Mankey and Spearow gives you eight choices for mons by the time you get to Brock.

B/W: When you get to the siblings, your choices for mons are: Starter, Purrloin, Lilipup, Patrat, and insert elemental monkey here. Technically, this brings the number up to seven, but since you can only get one monkey at this point, and that si the one that directly counters the gym leader, the number is five. Five mons by the time you face off against your first gym leader.

This means that, comparatively speaking, your options are much more limited than they would be for other Pokemon games. Yes, your mon diversity grows a lot more by the second gym, but the same can be said for other games as well: For D/P, you gain access to mons like Drifloon, Pachirisu, Shellos, and Buizel, while for FRLG, you gain access to Paras, Clefairy, Bellsprout, Oddish, and Magikarp among others. The incredibly limited early game for BW, combined with how useless all but one or two of your options are against the first gym leader, means subsequent playthrough are going to be largely the same: Either use monkey to win, or power level up Lillipup to bulldoze to victory.

 

[Pikachu315111]

The incredibly limited early game for BW, combined with how useless all but one or two of your options are against the first gym leader, means subsequent playthrough are going to be largely the same: Either use monkey to win, or power level up Lillipup to bulldoze to victory.

Well, the thing with that, that's on purpose. They decided to use the first two Gyms as tutorials for Type Match-ups.

Yes, I imagine on replays this would be annoying, though to me that just tells me you either just whiz past the first two Gyms (or try to go against what the game wants you to do) or you trade some Pokemon over you're actually interested in training.

 

[King Feraligatr]

Given that I like GSC/HGSS and BW2 more than RBY/FRLG and BW1 respectively, I wouldn't say so. BW2 in particular are massive improvements on BW1. Throw in that sequels are less cynical than "enhanced" versions (you have to make a new game instead of just making an "enhanced" version), I'd say they're not inherently bad.

 

[FloopThePig]

Ok so people are talking about BW pacing being good. I'm assuming it's the story pacing (which I don't really care about) because the level pacing of BW at the later stage compared to B2W2 is awful.

The Pokémon of the BW elite four are at levels 46(x3) and 48. You would think that they would reserve the levels 48(x5) and 50 for the champion battle, but instead the level 50 benchmark was wasted on the legendary battle which you are forced to catch (so no exp). Afterwards you battle N with his team of levels 50 (x5) and 52. And then you battle Ghetsis who has a team of levels 52(x5) and 54 before the main story ends. There is only a 5 level difference between the 8th gym and elite four and you can grind for levels on Route 10, the Victory Road, and Cheren, while the level difference between Ghetsis and the Elite Four is 6.

As for the post game? The trainers are at least level 60, so there is another at least 6 level difference. B2W2 had a much smoother transition to the post game since Iris' strongest Pokémon in B2W2 is Haxorus at level 59. It almost seems like Gamefreak did the levels of the B2W2 postgame first, then got lazy and copied the levels of the B2W2 postgame to BW.

I enjoyed the challenge though so I'm not complaining. Outside of Lenora's Watchog and maybe Elesa and her annoying Volt Switch, BW gives you the impression that the game would be incredibly easy becase this is the gen where:
1. later gyms only have three Pokémon
2. your rival and the elite four only has four Pokémon until the postgame
3. no evil team boss/commander battle
Then the game throws a huge curveball at the end where they basically abused overlevelling. Even though B2W2 was easier than BW (except for challenge mode), B2W2 at least has a smoother pacing while still being pretty challenging.